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We're NOT living "1984" - we're living "Brazil"

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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:03 AM
Original message
We're NOT living "1984" - we're living "Brazil"
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 12:07 AM by Prisoner_Number_Six
Brazil is a movie that oddly enough seems to be following the present political situation at least as closely as Orwell ever did. Brazil starts with a TV interview of the Deputy Minister, and the question comes around to the present spate of terrorist bombings. The Minister waves it off claiming the terrorist's thirteen year successful bombing spree is "beginner's luck". Sounds a bit too close to reality for me...

Reluctantly reading the daily LBN page first thing in the morning, the question that most often enters my mind is "Are they doing all this on purpose or are they all REALLY just completely incompetent Spawn-clowns?" And daily the answer is most likely to be "incompetent".

Incompetent on a level that could only be dreamed up for a movie script. Purposeless, utter idiocy on a level never before seen in this country. A country that has in the space of just five years turned into a mass of ill-trained, computer-dependent civil service lackeys who are completely incapable of intelligently using the equipment they're given to accomplish the simplest of tasks, and whose bosses are nothing more than paranoid, snivelling little mouse-men who do nothing without asking themselves how it affects their own jobs.

I could go on, but why spoil the fun for you?

If you've never watched Brazil, I recommend you do so. I believe you'll come to the same conclusion as me- it's NOT 1984-like deliberacy, but Brazil-like incompetence.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846 /

One little worthless trivia fact: Brazil was released in 1985- one year after 1984- the year Orwell's Winston Smith believed his story was taking place in.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. That is one of my favorite movies.....
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Right on target...
Brazil had that insane mixture of opression with technology gone bad. It's good to know that there are among us people who remember that nightmare.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bingo!!!

I've been chanting this mantra for awhile now. I watched Brazil for like the tenth time a couple weeks into 2005, and I couldn't help thinking, "THAT'S IT!"

And a little Python shall lead them. :-)

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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. They couldn't possibly be so incompetent
considering all the experience this bunch has
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for the recommend. I'll be looking for this! nt
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. The poverty rate in Brazil is like 25% of the total population
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 12:12 AM by Selatius
We're not THAT bad. Also, the gini index indicates income disparity in Brazil is FAR, FAR worse than the US is. If anything, Brazil is closer to revolution due to resentment building up over the gap between the rich and the poor than the US is. It's the reason why Paris burned in 1792, and it's the same reason Brazilians elected a leftist government as opposed to a centrist or rightwing government. Nevermind the peoples of Venezuela, Bolivia, Uruguay, and Chile.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Brazil the movie, not the country.
Jeez, doesn't anyone actually read the posts anymore?! :silly:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Did you read beyond the thread title?
as this post is a bit of a nonsequitor. Was talking about the 1980s era movie titled "Brazil."
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. Even if you read the OP and knew it was talking about a movie,
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 07:36 AM by HamdenRice
you might not have realized that the movie, Brazil, oddly, has nothing whatsoever to do with the country Brazil. It is the biggest non-sequitur of the film.

I think the director once explained that he called it Brazil out of irony, because people tend to associate the name of that country with tropical paradise (despite the reality), and the film was about a distopia or nightmare society.

The film appears to be set in a kind of 1984-ish Britain that was both more modern and more archaic than the reality.

The only reference to Brazil in the film is that in the closing credits, the bossa nova song, "Brazil" is played.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. Self-delete. nt
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 08:05 AM by raccoon
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. The little part where everyone is fooling around on their
computers while the boss isn't looking is very prophetic, well, the whole thing is prophetic.
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pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry. Look at who has benefitted. Their base.
Halliburton, Bechtel, Exxon-Mobile, Unocal etc. etc.
ALL have record profits. They have done EXACTLY what their base/corporate overlords wanted.
don't buy into the incompetence crap.

Brazil is a great movie though.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. I'm with you pauldp
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 07:22 AM by marions ghost
There has been too much deliberate 1984 stuff going on for me to agree it's all about incompetence. That lets too many criminals off the hook. There are a lot of opportunists out there who know exactly how to game the system and get away with it. For every crook we can identify and bring to justice, there are 5 more operating just under the radar.

It's a combination of "1984" and "Brazil" these days IMO.

It's relevant at this point for the OP to bring up the movie "Brazil"--a prophetic movie absolutely. Anyone who has not seen "Brazil" --rent it today. It has a lot to say about the perils of overcomplexity and systems that operate about as well as the nukes of Chernobyl or 3-Mile Island, (or the average American-made vacuum cleaner).
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. I liked that movie and will watch it again...
with your post in mind. :hi:
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes! Yes! Brazil (But with jusst a leetle bit more competence)
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/brazil /



"Because I dislike being quoted, I lie almost constantly when talking about my work."

In 1975, former Monty Python cast member and celebrated animator Terry Gilliam had a great idea for a movie. Along with playwright Tom Stoppard (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead), he'd write and direct a sweeping, epic masterpiece about a world gone wrong.

The film would take place "somewhere in the twentieth century." It would feature an oppressive, totalitarian government which systematically stripped the public of its basic freedoms in favor of an ostensibly fraudulent and hopeless war on terrorism. The term "information retrieval" would be used implicitly throughout the film, a euphemistic nickname for the gruesome torture techniques applied to suspected terrorists as they're kidnapped, secured, and readied for interrogation.

The mechanics and systems of this "fantastical" world would need to be absurd and contradictory, serving only to bury its chief directors under bureaucracy, red tape, and endless coils of administrative paperwork. Identification cards, DNA scans and security checkpoints would round out Gilliam's view of a monolithic, technologically-driven society, and patriotic propaganda posters telegraphing a mandatory us-or-them mentality would be broadcast regularly to all citizens amidst the false cheeriness of a consumer theme park culture.

<snip>
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'll follow your rec and rent it this weekend.
:thumbsup:
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. The difference is that Brazil was done by an American ,1984 was totally
British,

Totally another language.

Gezz, you must live in Brazil
or something.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Terry Gilliam was a member of Monty Python
That's about as British as it gets.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Damn you r right,as an American he took British Citizenship.
But he was American, at one time in my proud life of being American.


Orwell had pigs that finally went to a cartoon of our realities.

Damn, I need to move
out of this country.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. I've watched Brazil about 3 times in the past 6 months!
I've also been recommending it to most of the people I know.

It's a very great movie that is basically a blue-print for our world. From the sugar-coating of everything, to the way the government uses the threat of "terrorists" to remove all rights from the citizens. And as you point out. The rampant imcompetance.

One of the best movies ever made.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. That is a very valid observation.
And thanks for giving some publicity to one of the
best movies that no one ever saw!

Consider the "bad plumbing" sub-plot in light of
the 'Great New Orleans Flood of 05'...
Much as the legendary "guerilla plumber" was considered an enemy of the state,
the kid who drove a busload of folks to safety was ARRESTED when he got them there.

Sure, he was a HERO...but he failed to obtain the proper PAPERWORK.


One of my all-time favorite movies, and back in 1985 it was the FIRST
film I ever watched ALONE in an empty theater.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. You'd think enough time has gone by people would know by now
Most GOOD films end up generally acknowledged in some lasting fashion. Some, like The Rocky Horror Picture Show and The Gods Must Be Crazy, achieve only hard-core cult status. I think Brazil lies somewhere directly between the two concepts.

It was on my "must purchase wherever and whenever I find it" list. I found it not long ago. :toast:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Lucky you for finding it!
I have found alot of things in my wanderings,
but I have no copy of 'BRAZIL'.

I'm cool with it remaining obscure; it is like a special secret
that only I know.
I have one or two other movies in that same 'special' category,
and I am certainly not going to name them on a public board!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. and ye shall be called a film Bogart!
In fact I think I just did :p

The film karma will not be good and you will never find your own copy of Brazil.

DeNiro is too good in this.

-Hoot
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. Yup, Central Services == FEMA
Bloody paperwork.

And I have no doubt that poor Archibald Buttle languishes away in Gitmo somewhere...

"Here's the receipt for your husband, and here's my receipt for your receipt."



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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Great movie
sad reality



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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. They're incompetent only if one assumes
they really want to make things better for everyone.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. not necessarily
I believe that they want to further their power, view everything as political calculus and strategy, and believe that enriching their corporate buddies is the way to ensure a one-party state long into the future... and that their incompetence stems directly out of the above formula - as it allows no consideration of policy because it doesn't matter to them (because they don't care about the public, just their power.)

Okay - I just actually said that I believe it is both, didn't I? Intentional AND incompetent.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Then what is it that shows their incompetence?
So far the only thing where they really failed is privatization of Social Security.

Other things often cited as examples of incompetence (Iraq, Katrina) have just slid of them as though there's nothing to it.

Maybe they're less popular then they have hoped they would be, meaning they may not be as competent at propaganda as they figured they'd be. But as of yet i don't see this admin being impeached any time soon. And certainly lack of propaganda skills is not popularly cited as evidence of their incompetence.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hmm...
I've been meaning to upgrade my ductwork recently. :)
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, we are lacking in the requisite ductwork
So I cannot wholeheartedly agree with the premise.

Though I guess I could interpret the ductwork as both a prophecy and metaphor for the internet, cell phones and other instant connectedness that simutaneously improves and oppresses our lives. But I haven't had my coffee yet, so I can't.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. You better not touch it until you fill out a 27B/6!
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
26. Please don't watch the movie on basic cable TV. They edit it in horrific
ways that TOTALLY change the meaning of the film. I have seen this movie many times and love it. The humor is very creepy.
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WindChill Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
34. If you can find it, the Criterion Collection DVD is the best
The Criterion Collection edition has two complete versions of the film -- one is a 142 minute cut Terry Gilliam edited together from the US and European releases. It's essentially a director's cut of the movie. The other is the heavily edited "Love Conquers All" version, 94 minute cut that rearranges the story -- at least what's left of it after removing close to an hour of the movie -- in an attempt to make it more "commercial." The set contains a third disc with lots of the history of the movie and the controversy over its release.

The commentary alone is worth it to me and absolutely worth watching the film again. It's also a kind of an ironic testament to the themes and history of the movie that both versions are available in the same set.
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