I do not want my son and I to be trapped in this country when,...

[Just Me]

,...the neoconsters expand their war. ;( My concerns grow with each passing day.

[MadHound]

1. I understand your concern, however

We will need everybody that we can get to kick these neo-con assholes back to where they came from. I understand your concern, but if everybody cuts and runs, there will be nobody left in this country left to stop them, and they won't be satisfied with just having complete control of the US, they want the entire world.

[wake.up.america]

2. Start planning and decide what is most important . I do not ...

make much money, but I like where I live, I like what I do for a living.

I know some cannot just pack up and leave.

We have discussed this before on DU.

[babsbunny]

3. Amen!

My Son is 18, I can't sleep at night. The freepers who read this take much happiness in our worries. If there is a draft though, they too will be worried. We all need to join together and fight this administration! They will fall, even if it's after they die, they will burn in hell, and anyone who supports them!

[NNadir]

11. When there is a draft, there will be fewer freepers in the US.

Most of them will be in Canada, or some other country, although some will stay here and work on their anal cysts. We can only imagine, cognizant of their hypocrisy, what that work will involve.

We know how they will behave because we know who and what they are: Cowards.

[pitohui]

4. so you'd rather be trapped in a foreign country?

check your history, during the nazi era germans ex-pats all over the world were placed in concentration camps

now for all i know they were v. nice concentration camps, considering that for instance the great ornithologist helmut sick (incarcerated in brazil for the crime of being a german national during world war 2) was allowed to continue his research into new species and actually discovered several new species of lice

scratch that, even a nice concentration camp just made to put all the usa nationals in one place and out of the way, it isn't going to be v. pleasant

even the concentration camp for the british in china, told abt in ballard's autobiography and the movie abt his experience, empire of the sun looked pretty nasty & apparently that was actually a rather nice one

i think you would do just as well to stay here and tough it out, wherever you go, there you are, and the country where you re-locate is going to know you're of usa origin

there is no use running

[Just Me]

6. I thought about that,...

,...no matter where I go, I am of USA origin. I wondered, "Are we hated EVERYWHERE?"

Surely, not.

Frankly, a personal "exit strategy" has far, far more to do with my son than me.

[pitohui]

10. you're not hated, that is not the point

the people incarcerated in camps for being foreign nationals or foreign descent weren't hated, do you really think the chinese gov't laid awake at night hating on british 10 year olds (in the case of ballard) or that brazil was actually in great terror of german bird-watchers (in the case of sick)

it wasn't a matter of hate, it was a matter of time of world war, it was a matter of nations (germany, england) known to employ spies

as long as the war continued, there was no real way to know who was a spy and who not so the innocents got locked up for the crime of having the wrong nationality

hell, we treated those of japanese origin no differently, the only reason we didn't do it to the germans is that the german heritage was so disproportionately huge you'd have to lock up a quarter or more of the nation

you may say the usa is not like nazi germany, but it is broadcast worldwide that we have spies, we have secret prisons, we have covert operations

i don't think it unreasonable to expect that, in time of spreading war, your host country would question the motives of a strong young man being in their country especially if you or he had a history of being politically active

[madokie]

19. No exit strategy for me. I'm gonna stand and fight for what is right

and I expect to win, nothing short of it.

[Just Me]

21. I admire your courage.

:patriot:

The survival of my son supersedes my commitment to saving a nation cast into shadows of human ills. I'm not made up of the stuff necessary to fight like you,...yet I appreciate the stuff you and yours are made up of. Nevertheless, I'll keep taking a stand until I believe that stand endangers the life of my son.

[madokie]

23. I appreciate what you are made of, I respect that and I support you

You know what is best for you and your son, no one else. I was just saying for me.

[Just Me]

24. Thank you.

Love and strength to you!!! :hug: I suspect we'll get through this,...and be better for finding our way through it.

[hootinholler]

40. Shoulder to shoulder, Brother.

I don't expect to win, I demand it. I will not allow the legacy given to me by my ancestors to die without me.

Againt all enemies, Foriegn and Domestic, I will serve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

-Hoot

[madokie]

42. By not fighting today for what is right would mean that the 15 months

I spent in VN would be all for naught, Ain't gonna happen. Our country needs us today like it has never needed anyone ever. I love my flag and the only way it'll be taken from me is to pry it from my cold dead hands.

[Journeyman]

5. Bye!. . .

:hi:


(I hope you didn't expect me to be upset and search for reasons for you to stay. If you're not up for the fight I'd rather you weren't taking up my oxygen and potentially impeding my movements. Good luck where ever you land, though I can't imagine living under American foreign policy is going to be much better than living under its domestic control.)

[Just Me]

7. That's fine.

:hi:

[G_j]

20. "taking up my oxygen" ?

geezzz

:puke:

[Journeyman]

25. Hey, if she ain't fightin', who needs her? . . .

we need everything and everybody who can help these days. the quitters? who cares. nothing but summer soldiers and sunshine patriots, unworthy of our regard. . .

[Just Me]

26. I really don't mind NOT being on your list of "needed people".

I never needed or even asked for your approval to be "Just Me". Nevertheless, you will still be on my list of human beings worthy of acknowledgement. :hug:

[G_j]

31. I tell you what "we" don't need

..never mind

[Journeyman]

32. But people who whine and give up at imagined threats. . .

those you need. What a briquet you'll make. . .

[bpilgrim]

34. worrying about your children being sucked into the military is not an

imagined threat. wtf r u talking about? :eyes:

peace

[G_j]

35. yea right

the OP was just full of whining and imagined threats.

uh huh..

I better stop now, because if I said what I really thought I'd be in trouble. Have a nice life. You are not on my side. :hi:

[Deja Q]

22. Or, in a word: "Globalization"

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. Well, I'm giving it 18mos to begin to turn around...

If the Republicans steal the 2006 election and/or if impeachment hearings haven't begun by, say, June 2007 (give the incoming Dem majority time to settle and get organized), then I'll be a Patriot-in-exile. I won't wait around for a draft, or for me or someone I know to be wiretapped or rendered to Gitmo. I won't continue to pay taxes to support an illegal war, torture, an illegitimate dictatorial executive branch, or the shredding of the Constitution.

I know, giving a timeline for an exit strategy just encourages the evildoers, but I say

"Give me Liberty, or Give me death!"

OK maybe:

"Give me Liberty, or Give me Canadian Resident Alien Status!"

In the meantime, I'll give it all I've got!

[Just Me]

9. I draw the line at war on Iran.

In my mind, when the neoconsters do that, it is the beginning of the end. I prioritize the life of my only son over everything else and I refuse to be forced to sacrifice him in those conditions.

[pitohui]

12. then you got nothing to worry about

bushco owes everything they are to iran, there will never be any war on iran, that is just bait for the stupid people (fundies and freepers) who never figured out abt the october surprise and that iran put their saint reagan and the bushes into office in the first place

iraq, iran's old enemy, is a big valentine to iran, bush pretends to be iran's great enemy for american media but his actions prove iran has never had a bigger friend than george dubya bush, who has done more to destroy iraq than iran's own 8 yrs of war against that nation

i have an idea you stress too much

we have an all-volunteer army, there is no need for a draft of 18 yr olds when there is an endless supply of excuses to stop loss more experienced fighters

you'll have tons of warning if there's a draft

[Just Me]

15. You believe we'll get a "warning",....from these guys?

:shrug: I dunno' about that.

[pocket]

13. I've been hearing this for 5 years now, and the number of poeple who

actually leave is almost nil.

[BooScout]

41. I left.....

I couldn't be happier. Of course I have to put up with Poodle Boy now.......but that's the price I pay to be out from under the fascism of the Neocons.


BTW........I didn't quit or run away like many here love to accuse people who leave of doing.....My husband (who is British) and I just finally got fed up with the crap and the people not doing a damned thing about it.

[No Exit]

14. I am in the same boat with you.

And I watch every day to see if they will step up the Iraq situation, or if/when they will send troops into Iran. (If they are just doing air strikes, IMO that would not yet deplete the manpower enough to make them try to start a draft.)

One thing we know: btw now and fall of this year, there will be no draft passed. Because congresspeople are cowards, and they don't want to not get re-elected, and they don't want their fellow travelers who are up for re-election to not get re-elected, b/c that would erode their congressional power base.

So after that, that'll be the time to watch.

Now, btw Jan. and November, is the time I hope the scandal ball will continue to roll and to get bigger and bigger and bigger. If there are to be any more indictments by the Fitzgerald grand juries, they will come btw now and November. Meanwhile, pretrial motions, and maybe the trial itself, for Cowboy Irving Libby, will be in the news. The NSA thing is going to generate hearings, according to Specter. It has already generated headlines. Then there's the Abramoff thing. Some repuke congressmen will go down--it doesn't matter to, say, Bob Ney, whether the Bushite prosecutors go easy on him or not, b/c this scandal has generated enough publicity that his constituents KNOW he's involved deeply, so he will lose power no matter what. Ditto for DeLay, who may not even get re-elected.

Notice that when DeLay stepped down as their leader, things changed quite a bit. Soon Frist will step down, and I hope his prosecution will follow soon after. As for Frist's alleged presidential plans, all I can say is, ain't gonna happen!

All these things are hopeful signs that maybe even if Junior asks for a draft, maybe his congressional lapdogs may not be able to give him one. Fingers crossed.

[Just Me]

16. If they're gonna' do it, I believe it will be in the next couple of months

War is a great political move, doncha' know. Throws everyone into a frenzy,...chaos and unrest. Survival kicks in,...thinking is kicked out,...emotion is manipulated for those who seek to reign.

If these sons-a-bitches CREATE a reason to spread war into Iran, we will find ourselves trapped. I hope my concerns are simply unrealistic anxiety and fear. I do. I do.

[No Exit]

17. You mean the attack on Iran, not the draft!

For a split-second I thought you were saying they'd begin to start the draft in the next couple months, and I was gonna say NO WAY. Congress is full of frightened little scumbags, and they wouldn't dare do that with elections coming up!

But, yes, about the attack on Iran: my opinion is that the real reason we are threatening Iran is b/c Iran plans to start a new bourse (exchange) in March, and it will trade oil futures in EUROS--not dollars, as such things were always traded with before. So our powers-that-be would attack before that.

But it may be "only" air strikes. And I really think that there is not a good power base from which our neocons may attack--not like last time, when the phony 9/11 stuff was fresher, and no one knew yet that they'd been lying about Iraq (although many of us sensed it... we just couldn't prove it.) And now... Sharon's death throws Israel into at least a temporary funk. And Libby, a top neocon, is down for the count. And opinions of Cheney are universally in the toilet. And they haven't made Cindy Sheehan go away yet--instead, at least one parent of a killed soldier has prominently and publicly joined her. And so all these things, IMO, make the neocon war machine weaker. Once again, fingers crossed!

[Just Me]

18. Yes, the attack on Iran which will require the selective service to be,...

,..activated.

"Only" air strikes,...will be the way towards the neoconsters' expansion of the war. Iran will defend. Think about it.

On the other hand, think about how willingly the neoconsters have been to advance the economic interests of communist China. Russia is still in this game, too.

The neoconsters are playing a high-stakes game with our nation. They have nothing to lose. Why not bet it all for absolute power?

[No Exit]

39. Speaking of Russia, they're backing the Iranians.

And Pakistan, our ostensible ally, is backing the Iranians too.

World War III, anyone?

I believe that Israel was a big part of the reason we were rattling the saber about attacking Iran. But at the moment, Israel is in disarray. I think this buys us some time.

I think that, despite their incompetence, the neocons want to win. Clearly, they did not win in Iraq. Iraq, IMO, came about b/c of the neocons, who are idealogues whose first priority is Israel, plus the corrupt business interests (Halliburton and others), plus the oil factor, and, importantly, plus the fact that Saddam had tried that bit of trading oil futures in something other than dollars. (He was using the euro, too.) So, among all those combined forces, the biggest winners seem to have been the thieving corporations. The neocons' benefit was not as great. Of course, the oil interests staved off Saddam's "evil" plan to trade in euros instead of dollars.

But with Iran, these forces can't afford to have it turn out as mixed as Iraq turned out. So I think they may actually consider a bit b/f going into all-out war--the type which would involve troops, which would possibly start the draft.

Another factor: people I know who study the military tell me that the defense industry does not make its big money from our having lots of draftees in the field. Draftees = less profits.

[derby378]

27. Stay home, stand your ground, and buy a gun

That's the best advice I can give you on short notice.

[Just Me]

28. Like a "gun" is gonna' protect me from those powers.

Give me a BREAK!!! I'm sorry,...I've lived my 43 years without a gun in big cities and rural territories and can't imagine I'd do better with one at this point in time. If I were "GOD", I'd disarm EVERYONE and demand they fight it out with sticks and stones. Stupid fucking human beings inventing better means of destruction,..."what a mistake I made",...I imagine God sayin' at this point in time. "I gave them the capacity to create and they fucked up!!! All they do is invest in destruction. *sigh* They will only learn the hard way. I have to let them go,...they cannot be saved."

That's what I imagine even though I believe in a higher power beyond a distinct, controlling force.

[derby378]

43. I sympathize, but I gotta tell you...

A record number of Democrats that I've bumped into have said that they are so disturbed with the direction Nero is taking America that they're all buying firearms - some for the first time ever.

A certain militancy is needed at this point. The Jews declared "Never Again" after the Holocaust. Well, take a good look at where we are now. We are on the brink of fascism, with a President who says that he's above the law and doesn't have to listen to either Congress or the courts.

Be prepared.

[wadestock]

29. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

I research moves constantly.
The most realistic for me is Canada.
I'm a cold weather person...and I've already been there and had unbelievably good times every time I'm there.

Check their immigration laws.
Do the research and prepare.

[Just Me]

30. My SO and I are having more frequent discussions.

I doubt we'll go north even though we LOVE those Canukes!!! :hug: I LOVE THEM!!!

[Clara T]

33. Consider leaving

and goodspeed to you. I would if I were in your shoes. Your child and you will do well in other places they will understand and you will find open arms along the way. Things are going to get much more wicked here in the next few years even if no draft. Be well.

Peace to you.

[rucky]

36. Family comes first.

do what you have to do. let him experience the world. there are plenty of ways to do your part in the "big picture": Check this out! www.heifer.org

[Octafish]

37. We will win.

The good guys ALWAYS win.

It is the way of the multiverse.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it – always."

-- Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948)

Truth triumphs over evil. Every time.

May your son and his kids will tell the story about how his mom fought and beat the bad guys.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Yes

I know how you feel. :( All we can do is try to do our best when/if that happens. :hug:

[earth mom]

44. Do what you have to do and what feels right...

and excuse my french, but screw the people who give you crap about it!

We are living in dangerous times where our government has shown us in numerous ways that we are nothing but peons to be used, abused and disposed of! :grr:

You owe nothing to anyone BUT your family!

I have been thinking about leaving myself and I don't give a damn what anyone thinks!

Good Luck! :hi: