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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:38 PM
Original message
More self suffieciency links
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. The firepit link
is not working. I will search for another. Thanks for these.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. I like the info on wild edible plants. I've done some foraging in the
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 01:47 PM by happydreams
past. Am looking for a good book on edible plants in Northern British Columbia.

Thanks for sharing this. :toast:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm against foraging for wild plants. Wildlife depend on those
same plants to survive. Try growing your own instead and leave Bambi's food supply intact. More and more wild animals are being pushed to the brink of extinction because of development and encroachment of civilization. Their food supply is becoming less and less available. They don't need us adding to the environmental stress they are experiencing by competing with them for food.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. our wild plants and our wild shrubs are vanishing tis true
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 02:06 PM by pitohui
in some areas of the usa virtually every native small plant and shrub is on the brink of extinction because of the population explosion of white-tailed deer

one of the best things you can do to help save our native wild plants and shrubs is to hunt or to support hunting, of course, not too practical in the many suburban neighborhoods where you can't safely hunt yet deer are also taking over and eating your damn garden as well as any natives growing there, in that case, good fences and a good trusted supplier of native plants to re-stock your yard is the way to go

sometimes you are allowed to take plants from areas about to be clear-cut and developed anyway, so that's worth keeping an eye out for

most plants do not provide sufficient calories for humans in a survival situation, it is well to learn about your legal options for hunting, trapping, etc. and getting some experience there

i don't know how neurotic we're supposed to be abt self-sufficiency, there will never be self-sufficient bypass surgery, but if we really think there will be no refrigeration, etc, people need to be sure of having sufficient salt on hand to be able preserve meat for storage

some skills are not of value except as hobbies, for instance, flint-knapping, in the event of the total collapse of civilization, there will be lots of actual knives laying about, no reason to put an eye out learning how to (badly) knapp flint, i used to work w. flint a little but this is strictly fun historical stuff not something that you'll want to devote calories to doing during an emergency

one of my friends pointed out that his most valuable skill in a true collapse of society was his experience in methamphetamine lab, don't laugh, drugs to keep you awake when needed will be highly prized when coffee shipment is no more and society is in true collapse
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I lived on a deer preserve of white tailed deer in Idaho. I know what they
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 02:17 PM by Cleita
do. The problem is that when they killed all the wolves and other predators that dine on deer the populations exploded. Your little veggie garden is very tempting to them because they are hungry. The mule deer, rabbits and gophers in my area are also fond of my garden. I have found ways to discourage them, mostly fencing and erecting other types of barriers.

Since the natural habitat of my area was diminished centuries ago with the Spaniards and their horses and cattle, native plants in my area became scarcer and scarcer. Native plants were often replaced by European plants that the European animals left behind in their cow pies.

I wasn't talking just about deer really. I'm only using it as a metaphor. There are all the birds and other wildlife that depend on wild food. In my area because I live on the Pacific Coast, overfishing and destruction of wetlands has put the wild mammals, birds and ocean species in grave danger. If everyone in my county started foraging, they would make this into a desert in no time.

As it is drought from global warming is keeping the green plants from growing very well. Please let Mother Natures creatures have what is theirs and we will grow ours.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. You raise a good point.
I am only going to forage for wild plants when I leave civilization. My impact on the environment will have minimal effect in a wilderness.

Thanks for raising this issue. My guess is that most people don't have the patience to go foraging.

:hi:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. A few people foraging isn't going to make a difference. I mean
local people have been foraging huckleberries for centuries in the Northwest, although huckleberries are an important food source for bears and birds. It's when you start encouraging populations of people doing this, they will strip an area to bare subsistence, endangering wild animal species living there. There are many examples of this in the present in Africa, in the Caribbean and the destruction of the rain forest in South America.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Again I think you're points are very important. It really is a
matter of population density and whether the plants are being harvested for profit, as with some wild mushrooms in the Northwest, or simply personal use.

Oddly enough there are more deer in the US today than there were before the Europeans arrived. The symbiotic relationship between agriculture, where deer feast on cultivated crops, has to be one of the best ironies I've heard of.

My times up on the computer.

See you later.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Okay here is an NRA talking point. It's not your fault because it's widely
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 02:44 PM by Cleita
believed. The freepers who scream loud and clear about their Second Ammendment rights love this phrase.

"There are more deer in the US today than there were before the Europeans arrived."

Think about that one. Who was keeping the stats then and counting the deer? Was it the Native Americans, who would have to have been the chroniclers of the deer populations? Considering only a few of the advanced populations of Mezo-America had writing, who was keeping the stats?

I have never been able to get anyone to give me an unbiased, scientific study of that statement.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Extrapolation.
I don't have the stats on that, but it is easy to calculate if you have the stats on deer populations in primitive (limited human contact and non-agrarian) areas and compare it to populations in agricultural areas. Grain fields, with high concentrations of corn, beans etc., are much easier grazing areas than wild ones.

Beyond that there are studies that have concluded that extinct North American species like the Mammoths were hunted to extinction by pre-historic man using the Clovis point.

Most important is that deer populations in the US are not threatened, they are thriving. To take up any other arguement with a "freeper" is an exercise in futility IMHO.

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Still when species get crowded together, the less specialized
ones eat the food more frail species depend on, and that will push those species to extinction.
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Cool - thanks for the links - I will check them out - there is......
....no doubt in my mind that these will prove very useful. :hug:
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the links
Kicked!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. A really GOOD link
http://www.inthewake.org /
As for the foraging issue make seed balls and replinish what was taken
grow gardens forage and replenish! If you take or even if you don't take,throw a few seed balls around and there's more for all!

http://www.pathtofreedom.com/backtobasics/odds&ends/art...
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