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Francis Fukuyama on Weekends w/ Connie and Maury (MSNBC) now

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:14 AM
Original message
Francis Fukuyama on Weekends w/ Connie and Maury (MSNBC) now
They are discussing failures of neocon philosophy.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. If Fukuyama is slamming the neocons that's significant.
It's a real "Mandarin" insider, belle weather.
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. You got that right
Mr. "End of History" turning on the neo-cons?

Astonishing, and evidence that the "project" is about to be abandoned. This is another signatory to the PNAC plan . . .
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm pretty sure he said that we still have to stay in Iraq,
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 12:25 PM by Wordie
now that we're there. Great, huh?

I started this thread, but had only just started to wake up, so with an un-caffeinated brain at the time I'm afraid I missed some of what he said. I'd appreciate any other details you or anyone else can provide.

Did it seem like the interchange between Maury and Connie was rather forced? I really didn't like it. I was prepared to dislike the show, probably because the pre-show hype seemed goofy; then when I actually watched it a couple times, I found myself pleasantly surprised. They were actually covering some meaty topics, which would be such an improvement over the usual MSNBC e-channel-wannabe weekend stuff. But what I saw this morning was not good. I can't quite put my finger on what was wrong.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Interesting guy, Frances. He had a government job where he wrote all the
time. Nice gig if you can get it. I suppose his book was, as we say in the DC metro area, "good enough for government work." But he got it wrong.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. The situation is out of the hands of the theorists...
They can only sit and wail like the rest of us.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. well, we'll all be waiting a long time.
neocons and neoliberals are out there in some numbers -- and many have been working a long time and have a lot of influence.

more, they haven't stopped producing them either -- philosophies of strauss and buckley and weyrich are alive and well in universities and producing adherents all the time.

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'd heard about BUCKLEY, but Bill KRISTOL is also now turned?
That's what they said in the intro. That said, this Francis dude was unimpressive, and THESE dudes are who control deep thought in our society?
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. After thousand of lives have been lost, and billions of dollars, they say

Whoops! Guess we made a mistake...



Jeez.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, notice how they have Fukuyama on . . .
But bring on someone who was right about this from the very beginning? Fuhgeddaboudit!

Fukuyama will rationalize, excuse, and elide the more egregious shortcomings of neocon depradations, particularly his own contribution to the wrong-headed policies that killed hundreds of thousands and devastated millions more. But bring on someone who actually saw it all coming long ago? Who can dissect the bloodthirsty neocon philosophy and show its practitioners for the greedy murderers they are? Oop, we're out of time.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. K&R #1 - Yip, was just going to start a thread, "Unintended Consequences"
That's what this so-called intellectual said, that there's always the possibility with any policy that there will be "unintended consequences that will outweigh the original intent." Yeah, well, I'll say again, how come most of us here who were against their blasted idiot ideas didn't NEED any special "intelligence" or, now, elitist so-called intellectual authority to KNOW what was NOT RIGHT and WOULD NOT WORK???
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I seem to remember people specifically TALKING about the
"unintended consequences" before the war started. Although they were perhaps unintended, they were very much predicted! But the neocons and the press just wouldn't listen. It was thought unpatriotic to criticize the President, and all the President's men.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yes common sense seems to elude them
We say: "Please don't invade Iraq. This would be stepping into a hornet's nest that we will not be able to get out of without serious damage to our role in the world, and to the Iraqis themselves."

But Noooooooo -- They knew better than us dumb hicks.

We say: "Please don't make it easier fro corporations to take our jobs and send them overseas. That is not good for America's economy."

But Nooooooo -- They knew better than us dumb hicks.

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's an EXCELLENT point! I had missed that, although I have noticed
that Fukuyama has been on the cable shows quite a bit in the last week or so. That's a great observation, gratuitous. I wonder if they ever will have the courage to put one of those people on, since the msm were solidly behind the war from the beginning. It wouldn't make them look good.

Perhaps they should start with an analysis of the independence of the press, if they are "embedded." The msm bares a share of the blame for this failure, you are absolutely right.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Fuck Fukuyama and the rest! They aren't just 'theorists'!
They are WAR CRIMINALS! :mad:
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