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Civil war is good, neocon Pipes says. (Goal was always to destroy Iraq!)

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:27 AM
Original message
Civil war is good, neocon Pipes says. (Goal was always to destroy Iraq!)
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 12:32 AM by JackRiddler
I have argued that it's not by incompetence that the US invasion of Iraq is now leading to a civil war among the local factions. That was always the plan.

Now Daniel Pipes (below), one of the most influential neocons, provides the rationale. Pipes, who has always spoken of Muslims as subhumans, told Australian TV that he thinks civil war is a good thing. "There would be fewer attacks on our forces in Iraq as they fight each other... when one goes to war, one goes to defeat one's enemy not to rehabilitate them..." (Right, as though there was any justification for invading a helpless country that hadn't done anything against the US in the first place.) Democracy is bad, Pipes says, because the Muslim peoples are anti-American anyway.

We know the US supports Interior Ministry death squads and practices prisoner torture. We know the long history of imperial divide and conquer, by the Romans, the British, the French, in modern times the US in Vietnam and Latin America. There is no compunction about bombing civilians from the air. Are false-flag attacks in Iraq really off-limits to the US mil/intel apparatus? Please.

Every minute that the foreign forces remain only makes things worse for the Iraqi people.

Australian TV interview with Daniel Pipes - 02/03/06
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1582736.ht...

Civil war likely in Iraq: Pipes

TONY JONES: Tell me what sort of trends you're talking about? Because I'm still struggling to understand how it would be anything but a strategic disaster.

DR DANIEL PIPES: Well, in the first place, there would be fewer attacks on our forces in Iraq as they fight each other. More broadly outside Iraq. There would be fewer attacks on us as the Shi'ites and the Sunnis attack each other. The imperative that the US Government, in particular, has been following would be shunted aside - an imperative which I think has led to negative results, because the victors in democracy, whether it be Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, have in all these cases been our most extreme enemies - the Islamists. And I think as developments in Iraq slow down the democracy process, so it will elsewhere and we will be the better for it.

TONY JONES: I'll come back to this question about the democracy experiment in Iraq in a moment, because there is a change of mood, it seems, among a lot of commentators in the United States on this question, on both sides of politics. But first, if your strategic assessment is right, or even if it's right, surely the United States would have both a legal and a moral obligation to step in between the two sides and stop a civil war?

DR DANIEL PIPES: I don't think so. Let me give a bit of history. Post-World
War I the British and French victors, extracted, as historically victors
had, money and other benefits from the defeated German and other powers.
Post-World War II, the American and other victors did not extract money from
Germany and Japan, but gave them money and it worked. Germany and Japan were
rehabilitated. Since 1945, 60 years now, the notion that the victor pays,
rehabilitates has become an assumption. I have nothing against it. It worked
very well in 1945 but I don't believe it's a legal and moral obligation. I
believe when one goes to war, one goes to defeat one's enemy not to
rehabilitate them....

...TONY JONES: Isn't it far too cold-blooded a calculation for the invading
force to say, "Well if the Shi'ia and Sunni are shooting and killing each
other, at least they're not shooting at us?"

DR DANIEL PIPES: Let me emphasise I do not want them to be shooting each
other. I wish that the communities found a way to work together. I'm just
saying should there be a civil war, it is not necessarily all that bad for
our interests....
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SongOfTheRayne Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not suprised.
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. I was forced to Read a Daniel Pipes article for a Holocaust class
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 12:54 AM by SammyBlue
in my undergraduate days! What an asshole! A bigotted, stupid, narrow minded asshole!

He's a disgrace to Jews everywhere, as is Joementum Lieberman!
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. he's just a hater, really

You should see the drivel printed under his name in that rag "Commentary".
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annagull Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. NeoCon: File under Philosophy of Useless Nose-Sticking in Muslin Lands
Democracy through the butt of a gun, wow, what a concept. Only a pin headed Neocon bullshitter could have sold that one to a naive and useless cabinet. I know it's a question that is often asked, but what are these FUCK-UPS doing running the country?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. The fuck ups aren't just running the country
They are taking it globally. Paid foor with our tax $.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. If He Thinks That, Mr. Riddler
He leaves no possible doubt he is a moron of the first water.

In a civil war in Iraq, attacks on occupation forces will be the surest means of bidding for wider popular support open to all factions, and U.S. forces will be in far more danger than they are today....
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The future historian of these days
will be hard pressed to discover how such people could influence events the way they have. But, of course, all pertinent evidence will have been shredded by then (if the Bush mob retains power).
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The problem, as I see it, is....
inevitably, the neocons will pick the wrong side to side with.

The failure will only be evident in the next decade, when we have another mess that has to be cleaned up from lack of foresight.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Can you can all the Mr Riddler bull? Thanks.
Of course it's moronic and of course it will put the US troops in greater danger. The point is, he and his crew like civil war and a fragmented Iraq. It's what they wanted. Costs be damned.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. If They Think They Like It In Anticipation, Sir
They will find the consumation disappointing and distressing....

Of course, an orderly partitioning of Iraq into its three natural constituents would probably be a wise policy.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. W's plan for the entire ME is to deconstruct the ME
and toss it into chaos and then start rebuilding as democracies. He'll use our tax $ as the incentive to keep them from joining each other.

As the Colorado teacher said, very Nazi and imperialistic. Destroy the separate countries and then rebuild them in our image.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Nazis did the same thing in Yugoslavia.
Set the Croatian Chetniks (and backed them) against (mostly) Serb Partisans. That little effort came back to haunt us when Yugoslavia fragmented after Tito.
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Serenades Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hump!
Yeah, all that rape, death, knifed bodies, shredded flesh, missing limbs, bodies parts everywhere, destruction, hatred, and pain is a good thing. Let the good times roll!!!!!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. one mo kick
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. Danny boy... the pipes... the pipes are calling.
This guy is an educated idiot. Certainly he doesn't believe that US soldiers will cease to be targets as Iraq goes into meltdown. To the contrary, I believe that certain folks would take advantage of the ensuing chaos. The last thing an occupation force wants is to be in a situation where its every man for himself. Securtity would be next to impossible.
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