Is Dick Cheney a Grateful Deadhead? (please interpret this lyric)

[mdmc]

Recently I found a link http://www.planetjh.com/davis/davis_2005_07_27.html suggesting that the Grateful Dead song “Throwing Stones” was written about Dick Cheney. While discussing this in the GD (Grateful Dead!) forum http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=290x676 a discussion developed regarding the meaning of a lyric in this song.

I would like to get the thoughts of my fellow DU’ers on this lyric. Thanks in advance!

Here is the lyric:
There is a fear down here we can’t forget
Hasn’t got a name just yet
Always awake
Always around.

Peace and low stress, DU!

[monktonman]

1. OK dude....

put the bong down and air the place out a bit. You'll be ok in an hour or two.

[mdmc]

7. lol! Welcome to DU!

I bet my boy Bernie Saunders has seen the Dead a few times! Will he get your vote this fall?

[monktonman]

43. wouldnt miss it for the world.

would love to see richie rich go back to florida

[mdmc]

46. Go Bernie Go Bernie Go!

:kick:

[meegbear]

2. Ummmmmm....

no.

[mdmc]

47. the official bear of DU is not a dancing bear?

[LaurenG]

3. Ah, no reference that I can come up with but

what is the reason that others think there is?

[mdmc]

12. the song was written about Cheney

I was trying to understand the lyric posted in the OP. What does it mean to you?

[indie_voter]

4. It has to with an argument Barlow and Cheney were having

They were friends once.

http://www.planetjh.com/davis/davis_2005_07_27.html

AD: What is the story behind “Throwing Stones”? You wrote that in Cora as well, right?

JPB: Yeah. That’s the only explicitly political song we ever wrote. And the story behind that was that I was having a serious argument with Dick Cheney at that point, who I’d help get elected and been a pretty good congressman for the stuff that I was interested in, which was environmental stuff. We’d helped stop acid rain in the Wind River Mountains and passed the Wyoming Wilderness Act together and worked out a lot of the necessary compromises. He fished on my ranch and…we were co-conspirators.

But then he got into this obsession with the Russians and this conviction that we had a clash of cultures that had to be resolved by whatever means, and so he helped base the MX Missile in Wyoming. The original idea of the MX Missile was that it was a second-strike, retaliatory weapon that could not be taken out by a first strike because it would be running around on a vast railroad system kind of like a gigantic shell game, so the Russians wouldn’t know where the MX’s were. And the MX itself is an extremely destructive instrument. It has ten warheads, each one of which delivers 550 kilotons of explosive energy. And just for purposes of comparison, the bomb that completely leveled Hiroshima and took out half a million people in a second had only seventeen kilotons to give you some idea. So you can to the math. That’s just one missile. And the plan was to base 100 of them. And Dick was instrumental in seeing to it that they were not based in the original basing formula, which made them explicitly second strike, but that they were basically first strike weapons. They were completely naked and stationary and they were all put on launch on warning. And had all of those missiles gone, because some cloud of geese flew over a radar in Greenland, that would’ve been the end of all like on the planet. And I got so freaked out that somebody was so determined to win a political battle that he was literally willing to endanger all the life on planet Earth, that I felt like I had to say something…so I wrote that song. And like I say, I owe Dick a lot for that song.

[file83]

8. Well, then if the song is about Cheney, those lines the OP posted

would NOT be about Cheney - because Barlow already knew his name - contrary to what the lyrics state, "Hasn't got a name just yet".

[indie_voter]

13. Right.

"There is a fear down here we can’t forget
Hasn’t got a name just yet
Always awake
Always around."

I read those lyrics as referring to the fear (hasn't got a name just yet) not a person.

As Barlow said, the song is his rebuttal to an argument he was having at the time with Cheney.

This is what Barlow says about being a republican (the him is Cheney)from the same interview, link in my first post:

AD: Would you consider yourself Republican?

JPB: At this stage? Yeah, I probably would except that I don’t consider him one. I mean, I was raised to think that Republicans were about limited government, individual liberty, fiscal responsibility, balanced budgets, weariness of military adventures abroad, about responsible encouragement to business. There’s a whole list of things I thought the Republican Party was all about, and these guys that presently occupy the White House, are categorically against every single one of those things. So if they’re Republicans, I’m not. But I’m really not a very comfortable Democrat. The Democrats in the last elections proved themselves to dithering pus%@#& and it was pathetic. So I’m just waiting until one party or the other actually gets a moral compass and a backbone.

[mdmc]

18. don't you love the way he describes the GOP?

God, I hate the neo-con deal...

[wtbymark]

5. Ashes to Ashes, all fall down

I don't know why cheney would be a fan of this song at all. It says that if we don't wake up, "We will leave this place an empty stone"

Heartless powers try to tell us what to think
If the spirit's sleeping, then the flesh is ink.
And history's page, it is thusly carved in stone
The future's here, we are it, we are on our own.

If the game is lost then we're all the same
No one left to place or take the blame.
We will leave this place an empty stone
Or this shinning ball of blue we can call our home

<snip>

And the rich man in his summer home,
Singing "Just leave well enough alone"
But his pants are down, his cover's blown
And the politicians are throwing stones
So the kids they dance they shake their bones
Cause its all too clear we're on our own
Singing ashes,ashes all fall down, ashes,ashes all fall down

Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
It's dizzying, the possibilities.

-ahhh the Dead - how Grateful to be one of them

[monktonman]

44. another reason....

for hating Bob Weir.

[mdmc]

53. That is sad

I didn't know that you weren't a Bobby fan. I'm a fan of Weir.

[Scout1071]

50. It was written about or inspired by Dick Cheney - a neighbor of

the songwriter. They were friends and neighbors that used to fish together until they had a falling out over Dick's politics.

[file83]

6. Need more context - what are the lyrics for the entire song?

This little snippet is WAY to ambiguous. It could be about an actual person, a metaphor for war, or WHATEVER. Why do you think it means Cheney? Explain please.

[mdmc]

10. I am trying to decipher what the fear is

there is a fear down here we can't forget
hasn't got a name just yet
always awake
always around.

War...holocust...death...all "have names" What is this "fear"?

[Marie26]

14. I don't think the writer can decipher it

that's why he uses metaphors. It's a fear that "hasn't got a name yet."

[mdmc]

16. like a vague uneasiness?

[indie_voter]

17. deeper, I think. A dire sense of something bad about to happen

But you don't know what it is.

[mdmc]

19. yes...Yes!

I think there is something to that.:kick: Thank you for your post...

[Marie26]

22. Right

That's it. It's a sense of dread.

[Marie26]

21. Yes

An anxiety that the writer can't place, that Cheney inspires. I think really all of us can understand this uneasiness. Cheney occupies a unique place in the American psyche right now - "Darth Vader", black & ruthless, powerful & secret. Dowd called him a "phantom" & in another column she said "it's a new year with the same fear: Cheney." I think most Americans feel a little uneasy about Cheney; that's why he has a 19% approval rating & why the shooting incident had so much resonance. It kind of confirmed what Americans have been suspecting & fearing about the guy. We still can't "name" exactly why we don't trust Cheney, we just don't. It's an almost instinctive recoiling from the guy.

[mdmc]

23. Love Dowd

One of my ideal mates (along with Hillary and Chelsea Clinton). You have a great way of interpreting things, marie!

[Marie26]

45. Aw, thanks.

And thank you for posting this topic. I had no idea this song had such an interesting backstory!

[indie_voter]

29. Exactly

Cheney makes people uncomfortable. Jon Stewart and others get a lot of mileage with their cyborg/prince of darkness jokes.

I've always thought the fear in the song had a lot to do with fear of the philosophy Cheney and his ilk preach. At the time the song came out we didn't know what we know now. That is what an unchecked group (with power) who think the way they do (PNAC) can do to our world.

Now we have proof.

They have the ability to destroy it.

[mdmc]

32. I like your take indie

tanks for your post:kick:

[file83]

31. the "fear" = The War on Terror?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=566555&mesg_id=566967

Afterall, it will be "Always awake, Always around". Courtesy of Dick Cheney.

[RandiFan1290]

34. More likely Communism, racism, terrorism, etc

All those nasty isms ;)

It was written in 1982

Here is a link to the lyrics:
http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/throwing.html

[mdmc]

36. isms...hate em, lol. Thanks for the link to the lyrics!

all those isms have names though. (hasn't got a name "just yet"...always awake always around....:kick:

[RandiFan1290]

49. Maybe it's the underlying fear

of imminent death? The fear that the Gov spreads about the Commies, terrorists, different races, etc.

Isn't that what Barlow was upset with Cheney about? He abandoned his environmental work to focus on the Cold War business.

Just a hunch :shrug:

[mdmc]

11. song was written regarding Cheney

I don't have all the lyrics. I was trying to understand the "fear" that "doesn't have a name just yet". A fear that is "always awake, always around".

[file83]

30. A fear that is "Always awake, Always around" = War on Terror

[dusmcj]

9. fascinating window into intersections of political demographics

Wow.

JPB, lyricist for the GD.

A self-labeled Republican from a land-use state.

Aligned with the Prongmeister 20 years ago to address acid rain.

Turned off by Prongmeister's enthusiasm for fusion prongs of the Raygun variety.

This is an absolutely fascinating illustration of the nonuniformity of profiles of the members of ostensibly very divergent political demographics.

The next time anyone trots out the lamitude of 'blue states and red states' and the corresponding stereotypes of their inhabitants, tell them this story. If they aren't enlightened by it, they're too stupid to ever be, give up on them and move on.

Oh, by the way, I suggest that (metaphorically unless I get to Amsterdam again) maybe having another hit instead of putting the bong down might open the doors of perception in a beneficial way. Only the dopey think it's about feeling sleepy and looking for 40-lb bags of Doritos.

[mdmc]

15. thank you for your post!

What do you think the "fear" described as "hasn't got a name just yet" but is "always awake, always around"? what do you think it is describing?

[Swamp Rat]

20. This:

[mdmc]

24. kick to the head swamprat!

You do good work BRO!

[Swamp Rat]

26. I made a few 'floating head' pix

thanks

[mdmc]

27. Hey, did you ever see the real pic of Gore dressed as

Frankenstein? It is surreal how much it looks like your work.:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

33. I suppose he was green?

:D

[mdmc]

38. this is part of DU'er NYCgirl's sig. line

[Swamp Rat]

40. I think we should put these two in an arena to duke it out!

Battle of the Monster Pretzeldents!!

[mdmc]

52. a rematch?

:kick:

[dusmcj]

35. answer: "I must kill in order to survive." nt

[mdmc]

37. wow... thanks again for posting

:kick::yourock: Ya got me thinkin...

[dusmcj]

41. onwards

:toast: hell, you got us (including me) thinkin'...

the Dead always seemed tuned in to the hidden, although they kept it well-balanced with the manifest. That lyric reminded me of what in younger days my pals & I would have called "bad vibes", like when you're camping in the woods at night (hence "camping in the bad vibes woods") and inhaling smoke from certain plants (ahem) and you get the spooks... I perceive it as the same energy which is involved in fear of the unknown and in group struggles for dominance - the focus is not so much on a real tangible threat of some form to one's survival as on the relativistic struggle between people, which is essentially a social transaction, and in which the fear is of the other party gaining power over one. Specifically and more fundamentally, it is the fear of losing the power of self-determination - this is the essence of commercial horror art as well, it seems to me. The next step in the response is "I'm going to get them before they get me. Someone has to come out on top." A few steps further, it's no longer a response to a threat, it's a habitual way of relating to existence, including all other parties occupying it, whether they are threats or not. As so frequently happens, the target of malefic power learns to wield it themselves - this is the fundamental notion behind the theory that abuse is handed down as abusee becomes abuser.

[mdmc]

42. that is what I'm looking for

:yourock: peace and low stress. It's a habitual way of relating to existence...ashes, ashes, all fall down. Singing ashes, ashes all fall down is itself a way of relating to existence.

[KamaAina]

25. No, but Whittington is

"Please, don't murder me..." :evilgrin:

[mdmc]

28. lol

we could do another thread -> Dead lyrics quoted by politicians!

[katty]

39. cheney NOT grateful - but he IS a deadhead

[CabalPowered]

48. Kick for all Bobby fans!

And for anyone who’s had the pleasure of the hearing t stones live. Both the GD and Ratdog versions are worthy of appreciation. I’ll never forget 95’ Ratdog fall run on the west coast. First night at the Warfield, t stones to close, it was nothing short of a religious experience. Bobby and Rob Wasserman poured their heart into that song. I’ve never seen such an intense synergy between two artists.

[mdmc]

51. bobby is playin in poughkeepsie this month

:kick: gimmie your take on the lyric..