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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:33 AM
Original message
My Fears about the Future in this Country
When we see the next Depression, which may be closer than most realize, how will us pions survive? I'm almost dead-serious. I see many people in the fuiture dying off due to poverty, starvation, sickness and lack of resources due GOP greed and of course Peak oil. I keep having nightmares of this unraveling, and chaos ensuing throughout the country and the World around us. Since the right wing would rather see us all die off, ex. Katrina, what can we all do to ensure a secure future?

Paranoid? Maybe...
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. not paranoid n/t
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. turn your lawn into a garden...
go solar as much as possible...even if that just means a greenhouse for winter veggies
get a bicycle
get as big a stash of liquor/tobacco/silver/gold as you can afford...good for barter
learn a trade like carpentry...then learn to do it without electricity
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Exactly! Work to become as self-sufficient as possible.
I see a future where the US has multi-generational households like in Asia.

People aren't going to be able to afford rent/mortgage on their own.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. i like that self-sufficient bypass surgery
again, americans did all that in 1900, and yet the life expectancy was the early to mid 40s

being able to garden and live knee-deep in yr own relatives won't do diddly
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Me too, stepnw1f.
I often think about what we would do without any income. Growing our own food, sewing etc.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've though about this for years.
It's part of the reason I live how and where I live. Should the worst happen, my water is gravity fed, I already heat primarily with wood, I grow a garden. I really wouldn't have to make radical changes. I've lived without electriciy before. It's not that impossible. One thing's clear: people in rural areas will be better equiped to handle it than those in Urban ones.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Urbanite Here
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. good for you, rural people have shorter lifespans
don't buy into the "if i learn to victory garden and build my own outhouse i'll survive"

that is just crap to sell survival supplies like fake MREs and loompanics books


we all hang together or we all hang separately and subsistence farming is the most miserable form of existence on this planet, don't allow yourself to be made to feel guilty or stupid for being a city mouse
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. You are on the mark. I have worried about this
for a long time. So much damage to this country has been caused by this administration. And no one seems to know a way out of it. It just keeps on and on. This latest boondoggle about UAE taking over our ports makes me believe BushCo wants to sell us out.
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Get your sh*t together....
Make sure all your debts are under control, that you have some sort of cash stash (if not in a bank, under the mattress, if not in dollars than in gold...whatever you think you need). Take the bunker-style survival thing as far as you want in terms of food and water.

Frankly, if our whole government and society is up-ended, there's nothing anyones going to be able to do about it anyway. Even if you save up some money and things like that...it probably won't save you. But it's good practice anyway.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I Have Huge College Debt
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. If you're not behind on it....
...then you're "under control."

It's the credit card debt that will screw you anyway, and what I had in mind.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I Paid Off All Credit Card Debt
and never ever use it. I just don't want to end up in debtor's prison or something worse.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. there's no debtor's prison
ha ha, that went out a lot time ago
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Just wait a bit...
They'll get around to restoring them...
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. You Know What I'm Talking ABout
I'm sick and tired of people laughing away the worst case senarios. You know why? Because the worst keeps fuckin happening.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Destroy ther corporates
The rich and force the government to be accountable if it does not happen peacefully now I fear it will be violent when people get desperate..THe rich never learn sharing wealth builds stable societies we need to take care of each other.The rich and sociopathic deserve to be hated for thier hoarding arrogance and disregard of others..
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. Stock up now
I've neighbors who have been preparing for these times for years. Stock up on those things you can't grow. Get your network up of neighbors and friends who will swap things-like mechanical work for sheep.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't think you are paranoid at all..
Edited on Thu Mar-02-06 12:22 PM by converted_democrat
About 5 or 6 months ago I started trying to figure out what to do in case the ass falls out of the world.. My grandfather (depression survivor) taught me alot of stuff before he died too..

I have a garden, and I can can and dry foods to preserve them. I taught myself to sew.. I bought several extra bulk containers of bleach.. I bought lots of rice, canned goods, flour, sugar, and dried beans..(We have hurricanes here so it serves dual purposes..) I'm buying seeds for my garden tomorrow.. I bought extra of rubbing alcohol and peroxide, and other first aid supplies.. I bought everyone in the family extra clothes and shoes, that aren't to be used.. (just extra) I save almost all of the scrap medal from our business. I bought extra tools and nails and screws and such.. I built a composting box.. We bought a generator..

We still haven't decided for sure if we're going to stay in the country.. If we do stay we have what we need.. We just put our house and business on the market and we're thinking about whether we actually want to leave, or just buy another property with more acreage.. (So we can keep livestock and have more room to grow food.) Plus, I like to make a pond and stock it with fish.. I know how to fish, and I grew up on a farm so if worse came to worse I could butcher an animal.. Not that I relish the idea, but I don't want to starve either..

I don't know if I'll ever need any of this stuff, but my biggest fear is watching my family starve.. I don't care what people think of me for doing it, if the ass does fall out of the world my family will have a shot at making it...

Many of my friends can't cook unless it involves a microwave.. I'd do my best to help them.. I just know that there are many people in this country that are in the same boat that they are, and if the ass did fall out of the world there would be many people without a clue of what to do.. It makes me sad to even think about it..
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You Are Very Fortunate and Smart
I really feel like a fish out of water, living in the city, being in debt, and having very little prospects for my future. I will have to think really hard about what I will do if things get as bad as my nightmares.
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. one day at a time is the best method
you will be suprised , in times of great need, you will find what you need, maybe not what you want, but what you need today, that in itself is enough....
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I Already Live with very little anyway
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Maybe..
Maybe not.

We just bought a house and one of our first priorities is building a supply of things incase something happens. Natural or man made. We have radiant flooring (no air ducts), a well and some land. As soon as we get the perimeter fence up Im going to build a chicken coop. We will have them for eggs and if needed, we will get a rooster. I dread getting something that crows every morning.

I think people should be prepared. Howard Ruff, a famous gold bug, was also a huge advocate of emergency rations. Evidently one of his businesses went belly up and his family lived on the stockpile for months. It's just good sense. Mt Rainer and the Olympics loom in my view, so I guess it puts things into perspective.

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. howard ruff the famous bankrupt
i would never take financial or life advice from this infamous (& very illiberal) loser
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Call him what you will
But, the man knows fear based economies.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. sorry the man don't know anything abt economics by definition
a man who has twice declared bankruptcy because of reckless spending & stupid investments doesn't have anything to say to someone like me who owns her own home and doesn't live beyond her means

the mormons may have to pretend to think ruff has a brain but i don't
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Also...
I dont know if it turns out as badly as your nightmares even if you have no preparation. You will align with those that do. Imagine, gasp, talking to your neighbor? Maybe it will create community again and we will all gather together singing kumbaya, our red book tucked in one arm *jk*

Hopefully after the initial shock people would start waking up from this stupor we are in. You see, if it ever gets so bad that we loose the electric teat for more then a month... maybe we will start thinking for ourselves and putting shit back together again. Maybe it will be a time of renewal and rennaisance.. every civilization has a renaissance period, right?

Stockpile Almond Roca.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. well many people have lost electric for quite a few months now
Edited on Thu Mar-02-06 02:54 PM by pitohui
stockpiles did little as in the event of the catastrophe you were evacuated a long way away from your stockpile

insurance was a mixed bag as insurers in the worst-hit areas are dragging their feet on paying people so they can get lives back together

the best "plan" turned out to be that you have family or friends in an area distant from the disaster where you can live until the lights get turned back on, which still hasn't happened in many parts of st. bernard, orleans, etc.

if the lights go out all over america, then you're screwed, just as large extended families who all lived in st. bernard parish or all lived in lakeview are screwed, because the gov't don't give a damn and there's nothing to help the middle class yet you have no family member outside the zone of devastation to fall back on

stockpiles are just a way to waste money now, because you can't carry that much clean water, especially

america had its renaissance in the 50s,60s, and 70s, i don't think there is any rule that we get another if you missed the boat and weren't born soon enough to enjoy it or didn't appreciate it while you had it

i'd say the best thing is to enjoy life now because you can't control the future

but we already know what happens when the light goes out, people soon forget, even progressives don't realize that it's going on right now today in their own country and not just to poor people, not just to the "other" but to the middle class and even to some well-to-do or formerly well-to-do who lost everything in an hour

pay off your credit cards if it makes you feel better, have a garden, stick some extra chocolates in the larder, but don't kid yourself it counts for anything in event of a real disaster

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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. So, it's all over now, Baby Blue?
I just dont buy that in the case of massive economic realignment or disaster we as people cannot instead opt to help each other out. We do not have to sink into an abyss.

What happened on the Gulf Coast is TRAGIC and it should be a serious freaking wake up call. But we forget what it felt like in that week after Katrina. To remember would require that we make some very real and difficult choices. It's easier to turn on American Idol or work later.. or type on an internet bulletin board. If that happens on a national scale then nobody is saying it isnt going to be a tough couple of weeks. I believe that we can get it under control though.

Nobody is saying not to live your life now. Of course you should live your life AND prepare to continue to live your life even after this very glossed over, fabricated and engineered society takes a couple of swift kicks to the ass.

Sometimes things just have to run their course. We MUST reign our government in. We can do it and I dont even think its going to be as hard as some have suggested. Because they are retards. Come on people.. this is just laziness. 34% approval ratings? Let's pop some prozac and get back on track here.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. yes people will help each other out
people are already helping each other out

but what breaks my heart are all these sad little posts abt people thinking they can have a garden and a bag of gold coins and they're safe

if all your preparation is doing is making you unhappy and causing to squirrel away items you won't even be able to take with you in times of disaster, then better not to be prepared at all because at least you can enjoy the time you have now

i will tell you a little story abt katrina, we started out w. all our pets and possessions loaded up, a huge van loaded up, and we got only so far before the gas run out and the state police said we couldn't stay in jackson mississippi, so we ended up leaving the van and the possessions and just putting ourselves and our pets into our most fuel-efficient vehicle to make our escape

THAT'S the reality

in the event of catastrophe, your garden don't come w. you, you can only carry so much water and gasoline, all those bags of gold you have stashed in the attic aren't coming along...a lot of what passes for survival preparation is just nonsense meant to sell books and worthless survival supplies

there is no use telling a young person, just out of college, that she should hide in the country and give up her entire life because of what "might" happen, she could save up all her gold coins and never have a real professional job in the big bad city -- and so she'd never have any good times in her life at all, in this case, since she has v. limited resources, if she focuses on living today rather than fear for the future, her life will actually be better, because she'll at least have today if not tomorrow

this making any sense at all?


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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes..
It makes perfect sense. I guess Im naive and think that for the majority of Americans who arent facing natural disaster, it doesnt have to be so extreme. There are steps we can take as a society to keep everything from evolving to complete and utter chaos.

If you are in the city I think that it is impractical to grow enough food to support yourself on your postage stamp lot. I have acreage. I can probably support my family and maybe help supplement others with a garden. What we face as a nation peering into the abyss of economic unrest is different then what you faced with Katrina. Nature does not lend it's ear to rationalization and human logic. Our government should, our race should.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. old and sick people won't survive
the suggestions in this thread are so sad

having yr own garden won't do dick when you need medicine or surgery, it is the cost of health care that will kill us

life expectancy will go back to what it already is in the mississippi delta or other v. poor regions of the countries, you can expect to be dead at 55

self-reliance is a failed god, as we cannot be self-reliant when it comes to bypass surgery or the other medical advances that allow us to live past the age that nature intended

in 1900 the average life expectancy was the early 40s and it wasn't because people didn't have gardens

if you have the energy, money, grades, etc. become a doctor or another health care professional, the rest of us will just have to make the best of life today, knowing that it could be gone in a moment tomorrow

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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. a garden might not give you heart surgery...
but it might help keep you from having to suck cock for your next meal. and self-reliance may be a failed god (if it ever were truly so), but gaining skills that would be of use in a communal setting (even if that commune is the city block you live on) is hardly a wasted effort, even if the worst never happens. and if i happen to die by 55 (or tomorrow)...well, such is life.

give up! give up! sink into a morass of depression and self-inflicted wounds! the world doesn't love me or pay enough attention to me! give up! give up!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Fear is your enemy.
Don't be afraid. Remember that line from the movie Braveheart, about everyone dies, but not everyone really lives. Our worst enemy is the lie that we have been fed, what Ibsen spoke of as aging truths "belonging to the majority ... like ancient rancid bacon or like rotten green ham; and from them comes all the moral scury which is eating itself into the life of the people around us." Avoid consuming that diet, and instead concentrate on what is important.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. that's the aim of capitalism
(although the capitalists and their apologists are too dumb and eager to rationalize their own greed to admit it)
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-02-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. Your post is actually quite accurate- are you preparing
Edited on Thu Mar-02-06 05:24 PM by Clara T
With help from your friends? There is alot you can do even in urban environments.

Look to Cuba for an example of how to get by on low energy.
Don't wait.

www.communitysolution.org
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