Does anyone else think that Dean should run for prez in 08?

[CoffeeCat]

I think 08 will truly be the year of the "Washington Outsider."

After Abramoff and other other BushCo scandals materialize and sicken the entire nation--
our citizens will be clamoring for someone who isn't sitting at the epicenter of the
corruption and evil.

I know Dean is technically an insider now. However, he's always been against Washington
corruption and politics as usual. ...and let's assume that everyone would be ok with
him stepping down as party chair.

I'm really thirsting for someone outside of this den of snakes--to shake things up and
lead a revolution.

I'm thinking Dean.

My husband said that due to his scream, he's through. I'm a bit jaded, because I love Dean and I was there during the scream. I saw that it really didn't happen. It was so loud in there, I couldn't hear him screaming and I was only several rows back in the audience. My husband insists that--although it's absurd and unfair--he's unelectable because of the scream.

What about Dean in 08?

[stepnw1f]

1. Absolutely

Good choice.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

2. YYYEEEAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

[Wilms]

3. When you think about it...

Dean was the only clear winner this past fall.

[LittleClarkie]

4. Fuck no.

Git yer cotton pickin' mitts offa my DNC Chairman. He's busy growin' grassroots and stuff.

[Atman]

5. Let's just give up NOW!

Woo hoo! Dean for trounced loser in '08!

[LittleClarkie]

15. Well that would apply for anyone who didn't make it through the primaries

Are you ready to say that about Clark too? Or Edwards?

[Atman]

24. No. I voted for the little guy, anyway.

What was his name again?

Dean is a lightning rod. I don't think he wouldn't be a good president, I am only coming from the marketing angle. He is a built-in, walking joke for the GOP to pounce on. It is just a horrible, horrible idea. You'll hear the Dean Scream 24/7 all campaign season. It just isn't feasible for him to be elected, because people do the group-think thing, the herd mentality. They won't vote for a living joke.

[LittleClarkie]

26. Thing is, they'll make a joke out of whoever we run

It's what they do. They made a joke out of Gore. They made a joke out of Kerry. They made a joke out of the little feller when they remembered he was there (Christmas elf, anyone?)

The little guy's toast too, then.

My attitude is that we have to stand up against our candidates being made into jokes, or it will keep happening.

[Atman]

30. I disagree. We have to advance candidates who aren't jokes.

Sorry, Howard Dean is a walking political joke.

We need another Bill Clinton (obviously); an unknown without years worth of baggage, someone who makes the pundits look at the CANDIDATE and not just reach into the vault for another goofy clip to use against him. The current field of ten is just another rehash of the same ol' same ol'.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

31. Bill had no political baggage???????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

34. Pre-election Bill had no baggage

Didn't stop the Republicans from making him a joke after the fact.

I do believe our friend here is pining for another Southern Governor.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

37. Oh. Thank you!!

[Atman]

48. The first Bill Clinton, when no one knew him

Come on...try to keep up.

Look at our field of old tired horses now. The same old field. Same ol' same ol'. Seen that movie. Last year's model. How many cliches do I need to throw at you? I'm admittedly coming from a different angle than you are, but it is an important one. I am coming from the angle of a guy with 25 years in marketing. "Selling" a candidate is just marketing.

Toyota changes body style virtually every year.

GM doesn't.

Who is doing better? Whose cars are American's buying, and which company is sucking wind?

So why are we even considering rolling out yet another incarnation of the 2004 model, with maybe a new piece of trim, and expecting anyone to be excited about it? We need something new. Americans are down on ALL the current crop of names that have been cluttering up their teevees for the last two national elections, they need a fresh, now model that the critics have to look at FRESH.

Continue the car analogy...send a car reviewer the 2006 Same Ol'. He's driven every model for the last four years, and his review of the 2006 will BEGIN with his impressions of the same boring car he's already tested four other times. However, give him a brand spankin' new Govmobile, which no one has ever driven, and he'll start out excited, he'll have high hopes, he'll review from a FRESH angle, not just as if he's just driving the same old car with different upholstery.

Am I making myself clear?

Marketing-wise, Dean is an old Taurus. Sure, his style was radical when it was first introduced. Now it's just boring.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

49. You are kidding .......

[Atman]

50. Are you replying to my first version, or the update?

I'm serious as a fucking heart attack.

[LittleClarkie]

53. Perhaps if you'd addressed your reply to him instead of me

He'd have seen it.

And so am I. My last candidate wasn't a joke. He was a good man that was allowed to be turned into a joke.

Btw, watch it fella. That's my DNC Chairman you're talking about. I don't need him to be a joke. I need him to be a farmer. A grassroots farmer.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I'm not the one who was confused, dearie.

Clear as a bell.

I just disagree. My choice may not be the spiffy sportscar. But I like him.

[Atman]

71. Clarkie, you're too defensive, man!

I don't know why you're jumping on my shit for this. I directed my response to you (not really, but if you took it that way, well...) because you made the comment about me wanting a southern governor (I don't), and saying you'll take the Taurus over the Sports Car. Fine. Good for you. But you also said "NO!" you didn't think we should run Dean. So what are we arguing about? If my car-analogy post is read for what it is, I don't see how you can be that upset.

This crap about us just ignoring the GOP because "they'll do it anyway, to any candidate" is nonsense. The suggestion that I think we should just act like the GOP is ludicrous beyond comment, especially to anyone who has read any of my thousands upon thousands of posts here. I am talking from a purely practical angle. Sure the GOP will try to belittle any candidate we advance. So why hand them their best material on a silver platter? You KNOW the media isn't going to change. They'll be right on board with the GOP, pulling the Dean Scream tape out of the file to run in an infinite loop until 2008. Whenever we get air time, it won't be about our policies or issues, it will be about bad tempers and uni-directional microphones.

Now, more than ever, we need the strongest possible candidate who will excite the American people back into politics and give them hope that they're helping CHANGE things, not just rewinding and re-playing with same tired roster.

I wrote my car analogy from a marketing perspective, and that is what this is, like it or not. We need a "marketable" candidate. Love him or hate him, buying Dean will be like buying a used car instead of a new one. The fresh smell isn't there. While you might be happy with your new purchase, you still wonder if maybe the brand new model might not have been a better choice. You still have those nagging doubts that there might be something wrong your mechanic missed, the cause of that strange "YEEEAAARRGGHHHH!" noise coming from under the hood.

I agree with you very strongly on one issue, though. Dean is in the perfect place now. He is a great leader for the party. He belongs there, where he can open his yap and not have to measure every word for fear of a negative campaign ad coming out of his remarks. He is great at raising funds and getting out the vote and articulating a real democratic message. Let's keep him in that leadership position where he can really help us close the deal on that new model we're pining for.

As soon as we straighten out the voting machine mess!

[LittleClarkie]

104. No I don't want him to run, but for different reasons than

he's not runable or his a joke.

He's got a job already is all.

And I'm a chick, btw.

A sleep deprived chick at that.

And I have a cold.

Sorry if I'm kinda grumpy.

[druidity33]

79. marketing-wise

how about Obama for Pres and Joseph Wilson for vice?

[Atman]

81. THOSE would be good choices!

They have mystique, a certain new-hero status, they're known to have gone up against Bush, but most people aren't sure why. And most important, they're NEW to this whole presidential scene. People simply don't want the last year's model at this point! Americans are desperate for change, and every poll on earth right now indicates that most people lump the current crop of dems in the corrupt republicans. We need candidates who aren't from within this same old circle if we're going to generate excitement. The GOP will be offering up the same ol' same ol' which will be to our tremendous advantage. We can peg them with the corruption angle, that they're just coming out of this same house of ill repute.

[karynnj]

83. He had baggage

There were many Arkansas stories of him as a womanizer - Hillary did a great job in defending him on thison 60 minutes. There was also his way of avoiding the draft. (As a 70s college student I had no problem with this - he had the option of being a Rhodes Scholar - why should he fight when all the priviledged kids (which he wasn't) didn't.) Like most of his peers, he tried marijuana - but didn't get consumed by it like W did with his drugs of choice.

The NYT profiled White water.

[wryter2000]

91. Adultery

He admitted to adultery while he was running for president in 1992, on 60 Minutes, no less. He managed to overcome that to get elected, but I wouldn't call him free of baggage.

[madfloridian]

38. They will turn anyone into a political joke. No more Bill Clintons.

He had two terms, it is time for others now.

Do not for one moment thing they will not attempt to destroy anyone.

Last year we fell in line as Bill Clinton so dearly loves to say. Next time we won't.

[FSogol]

93. Mark Warner from VA. n/t

[MH1]

96. They didn't

"make a joke of Kerry." I mean the talking heads tried their damnedest, but I don't think they succeeded, based on the conversations I had with people in the real world (i.e., excluding freakrepublic and their ilk). I saw 4 basic positions about Kerry, in the weeks just before the election and on election day:

* I'll vote for him because he's the democrat (lukewarm support)
* I'll vote against him because he's not the republican (lukewarm opposition)
* I'll vote against him because of Vietnam (i.e. hate his guts)
* I'll vote for him because he's the best damnned politician I've had the opportunity to vote for in a long, long time (i.e. absolutely love the guy and probably considered suicide on Nov 3)

I think one of the strong points that can be made about a repeat Kerry candidacy is that they repubs absolutely failed to "make a joke" of him, as hard as they tried. And they did succeed with Dean, at least partially (although I think most people are over that now.)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

28. What if he uses it as a part of his campaign?

[druidity33]

80. yeah...

i thought that too... kind of a rebel yell. Have you ever seen the movie Run Lola Run? There is scene where she's in the Casino... also, having used Primal scream as a component in spellworking i can attest that it is powerful stuff. Get a popular reggae/rock band to incorporate it into a song, reframe it, get the "youth" behind him... Dr Dean and Dr Dre?

[iconoclastNYC]

84. They'll do the same thing to anyone.

You mean Hillary isn't a joke? How about Kerry? Remember the Swifities, how about those purple heart bandaids?

How about Edwards? He's the BRECK GIRL, remember?

You'll never find a candidate that the GOP can't make a joke out of.

You stand up to bullies you don't quake in fear of being called names.
You pick a candidate by the following criteria:

1. which candidate speaks about the issue that the majority of people care about
2. who best motivates and unites the non-beltway Democrats to become and activist for him
3. who speaks plain language
4. who engages the independants
5. who motivates non-voters to show up

We'll never win over the Republican base, and we don't need to.

[wryter2000]

92. Nixon overcame being a joke

Remember "You won't have Mr. Nixon to kick around anymore" when he lost the CA governorship? It took a while for him to live that down, but he did. Like Clinton's adultery, obstacles can be overcome.

That being said, I still think Dean is exactly where he needs to be right now. We'll know more in 2006.

[iconoclastNYC]

114. I think you are right.

And i think the reason he had a lot of support for the chairmanship from people who did not support his nomination was because they feared him breaking off and forming a third party, which IMHO he could have done very easily, esp if he would have talked about the way the DLC and beltware insiders ganged up on him Ceasar style in the build up to IOWA and NH.

The Dean haters can repeat RW talking points all day about "crazy Dean" but any of us who were at the rallies knew that this man is the best thing to happen to the Democratic party in a generation. He motivates people, he's not a politician, he's a leader.

[Atman]

117. I am not a "Dean Hater" at all.

He's proven himself. I like the way he thinks. My comments were based only upon his proverbial "electability." As far as Kerry not being made a joke of, I strongly disagree. The late night comics still crack about him, and do not dare discount the pull of the late night comics. They often guide the sheeple...when the comics, especially the ones that pander to the dumbest of the dumb, like Jay Leno, tell Joe Sixpack that Politician A is a joke, Joe figgers he better git on board. Generalities, of course, but there is a great deal of truth to it!

[iconoclastNYC]

119. Tell me how electable Bill Clinton seemed in 1991?

This "electable" notion is completely made up by the media so they can blackball the candidate their corporate masters most fear. And the factors they look at to determine it are completely self serving.

As bleak as everything seem for the USA it would only take a great candidate on the Democratic side to fundamentally put this country back on track. The big losers in this scenario are the corporatists who want the president to be a nicer cuddlier Muscolini.

An electable Democrat is plain spoke, reaches out to non-voters and people who think all politicians are corrupt and the parties are basically the same, excites the base and the Independents, and takes a principled stand on the issues.

Despite Dean having all those qualities, the MSM, in paticular.....Newsweek, Time, and US News and Republican Report (in the same week) all proclaimed that Dean was not electable.

They knew he was, they fear it, and they had to destroy him by saying the opposite.

How good was the corporate media's "electable" candidate for us in 2004?

Why should we listen to the mouthpieces of the corporate elite?

[Atman]

120. It may be made up by the media, but the media is STILL a factor!

You can't take the media out of the equation! That is all I'm saying. I hear you, loud and clear. But you're assuming that the corporate media is suddenly going to roll over and play democrat for us? The media is the force to contend with, and they're lazy bastards, and they'll just drag out the scream and play it over and over again for the entire campaign. That's all I'm saying. He may be Jesus, but if the corporate media makes a joke out of him, even Jesus would have a tough time beating the corporate-backed candidate.

[iconoclastNYC]

123. You make my point

The medis is going to do it's worst no matter what we do so why not pick a candidate that pleases us, not the candidate that pleases the corporate media?

[Atman]

125. That wasn't what I said

I'm talking about picking a candidate that's bullet-proof. Dean isn't that man.

[renaissanceguy]

64. Right.... because speaking our mind out loud

actually loses votes, right? We have to be nice to the repugs and try to mirror their policies. Because that's what the "average" voter wants, right?

Gimme a break. I think the "average" voter is sick of politicians who DON'T speak their minds, and will say anything for a vote.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/428793

[RadiDem]

6. Yes & I will be active in any "Draft Dean' movement

Go Dean 08

[Ksec]

7. Well he was right

while most everyone else was wrong.

Im for anyone with a D beside their name and a winning way.

[David Dunham]

8. Dean is toast. The 08 nominee willboot Dean as DNC chair too

[LittleClarkie]

13. Care to elaborate?

It really depends on how the next election comes out. If we gain ground, I don't see why Dean is necessarily toast, at least as chair. The local folks love him.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

22. I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT PERSON TRY!!

:rofl: :spray: :popcorn:

[madfloridian]

32. Well, then that "nominee" takes a chance on losing loads of votes.

Because last year we all fell in line as we were asked. At that time, there were about 700,000 Dean campaign leftovers with nowhere to go. Last figures I heard were over 600,000 still hanging around. Some are active in DFA, some are not...but they are still there.

His term will up by then, anyway. But there will be hell to pay if the usual suspects keep up usual smug attitudes.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

35. Damn right!! They better be very, very, very, very appreciative that

we are here!!

[crispini]

75. The 08 nominee cannot "boot" the DNC chair.

It's an elected position.

[SheilaT]

9. I was an early Dean supporter,

gave money, met him at several events, and I'm still a huge fan. But at the moment I'm completely neutral about him, or any other potential candidate. The election of 2008 is still three years away. Let's not worry about it just yet. Let's concentrate on the tasks immediately in front of us, including the 2006 election.

[madfloridian]

36. Only two years away now.

And there is just no telling what will happen.

[Radio_Lady]

62. Sheila T, I second the motion. Gotta take the years as they come.

2006 first. Thanks for your post.

[hedda_foil]

10. If it gets much worse ....

If the economy falls apart, Dean may be the only person with the courage, strength and leadership to pull this country back together again. It will take something that drastic, I'm afraid, for the powers that be to give him the chance to be president, which imho is what he was obviously born to be.

[Greyhound]

21. If he gets the nod, I'm fine with him. n/t

:kick:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

11. Maybe a nice Dean/Clark or Dean/Gore?

:woohoo:

[Southsideirish]

17. Gore/Dean - its the way to go.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

40. No. Dean/Gore .......

:popcorn:

[FreedomAngel82]

12. He said he won't

He said if he got the chairman job he won't. :(

[RagingInMiami]

14. Yes

[Southsideirish]

16. Great idea! It will be the year of the "clean Gene" and no one has a more

spotless record of unblemished integrity than Howard Dean. I might put Al Gore at the head of that ticket, however.

[Straight Shooter]

18. Anyone who wouldn't vote for Dean based on his rebel yell ...

... would use any other excuse not to vote for him.

I feel the same way about Dean losing in 2000 the way I did about Jimmy Carter losing to Reagan. We had our chance. We can't go back and fix it.

Let me add, Kerry won. Would Dean have gotten a high enough percentage of the vote to overcome manipulation of the election? Who can say? People might have gotten over the pep rally faux pas. Dean sure knew how to get a crowd enthused, to make people feel like they're part of the political process, not just observers but true participants. He's the only politician that ever got me involved in politics. Believe me, that's saying a lot.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

20. I would vote for Dean in a heartbeat

YYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAGGGGH Not only that but Dean speaks for me!

[Straight Shooter]

54. Dean speaks for me, too. Absolutely.

Even if I am so brain-dead tonight that I don't know the difference between 2000 and 2004, LOL.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

19. if feingold doesn't then yeah

we have precious few real democrats in the democratic party and we need at least one to run

[Clarkie1]

23. Unelectable, but he is a great DNC chair. eom

[madfloridian]

41. No more unelectable crap.

We won't fall for that again. Not from our own party while the ex-president was working behind the scenes to hurt him. If TPTB continue to diss him and put him down, he will be drafted.

[politicat]

25. I believe the party rules (and possibly FEC laws) forbid it.

Something like a candidate cannot have held the party chair in the last 2 years.

[madfloridian]

39. No, they don't.

And if the party elite keep dissing him, he will be drafted.

[unkachuck]

27. the corporatists will always....

....be at odds with him, they hired him to bring him onto the 'team'....he should resign in June....he's proven he can organize, he's proven he's serious, he's proven he will fight and many will follow him....

....and if he so desired, I think he has the necessary skills to start and grow a viable progressive 3rd party and turn it into a major party....the stench of massive corruption is in the air....it taints both partys....people sense it, people know it....we need a 'savior' and Dean could fit the bill....

[DemonFighterLives]

29. Yes, he belongs at the head of this party

I like him as DNC chair, but president would be even better.
:Yeeeeeeaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh111!!!!1:

[madfloridian]

33. He is not unelectable, that dog don't hunt anymore.

Whether he will run or not is not known, but the unelectable crap is so over.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

42. It would give the Democratic Party the chance to sink or swim!!

To stand up for their beliefs!
To come out swinging!

[ddeclue]

43. Nope!

He signed on to be DNC Chair and if he walks out on it for his own personal run for the White House, he will be abandoning the party.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[madfloridian]

44. Not if he is undermined. Not then.

And the undermining has been ongoing.

[bemildred]

45. No, I want Dean where he is now. nt

[Roxy66]

46. Hell no!!

[Crazy Guggenheim]

47. HELL YYYEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!

[Zomby Woof]

51. No

I want us to win.

[KharmaTrain]

55. Did My Calendar Jump To 2007 Already?

How'd the 2006 elections turn out? Democrats regain control of the House and Senate? Invasion and plunder of Iraq still going on? Asshat still tapping our telephones and email? Rove still spinning? DeLay still not on trial?

While it's fun to stargaze, dare I bet there were few people here who had heard of Dr. Dean at this time in 2002...2 years ahead of the first primaries and who knows if there isn't another Howard Dean somewhere within the party that may emerge over the next couple years. There's so many intangibles that make predicting 2008 a parlor game and not much else. Right now all my calendar points to is an election in November, 2006 and electing Democrats...nothing more, nothing less. I'll play the 2008 game when it starts to mean something.

[madfloridian]

56. The elections in 06 will be hand-picked Rahm millionaires...

and hand-picked Schumer buds. Mostly anti-choice, mostly millionaires.

I was not going to play the 08 game until I saw the recent attempts to undermine. That won't work again.

[KharmaTrain]

57. I'm In Rahm's Backyard...Watching the 6th District Very Closely

He didn't pick a millionaire there...found an Iraqi war vet, but upset a long established grassroots operation in the process. Lots of energy now is being diverted from building up a strong campaign against what will surely be a well funded Repugnican (who will be trying to hold the seat) to what is shaping up to be a bitter primary battle. What a waste and all for personal glory over winning elections. It's a shame.

The political landscape is fluid right now and getting moreso. How can one look one year ahead and predict where things will be yet alone two years out?

The undermining that goes on is the needless battles for turf and influence and personal glory and that's all playing 2008 parlor games does right now. Maybe there's a way to hit the "wayback machine" and see what type of posts were floating around here and other message boards at this time in 2002...again, I don't think the name Howard Dean was mentioned beyond a footnote, Wesley Clark was a total unknown. A lot can and will happen...thus those who are wasting their millions now will regret it later...but not if there are constant turf battles that alienate those with no candidate or interest at this point in chosing sides.

Peace...

[madfloridian]

59. The DCCC came into FL 16th, picked a millionaire Republican...

to run when two good Democrats were already campaigning. This millionaire is said to have a terrible manner and poor personality...but hey, he's rich, and that is what counts.

[dsc]

87. There is no way in Hell that the majority of our House and Senate

candidates are pro life. No way. I can think of one, out of nearly 20 running for Senate, who is pro life. Actually sorry 2. Ben Nelson, who is the incumbent, and Casey. I defy you to name another. I also would like a list of the 200 and some odd pro lifers running on the Democratic ticket in the House (I assume we have at least 400 House candidates).

[madfloridian]

94. I don't take your bait on choice anymore.

My husband and I took stands here for domestic partners, knowing full well that most don't support woman's choice. We have tried to keep our legislator from passing a law to prevent colleges from giving benefits to domestic partners...which U of F recently voted to do.

We support your rights, if you ever decide to support women's rights, get back to me.

[dsc]

106. This isn't bait

You claimed, in black and white, that a majority of the candidates standing for federal office with a D by their name are anti choice. You evidently are saying now that a majority of gays are anti choice, which is also a dead out falsehood. It isn't my problem you either don't know, or are purposely mistating facts. Either back up your claims or withdraw them.

[madfloridian]

107. We will keep standing for the rights of all,

including women to have birth control.

I withdraw nothing I have said, and there is nothing to back up.

"The elections in 06 will be hand-picked Rahm millionaires...
and hand-picked Schumer buds. Mostly anti-choice, mostly millionaires.

I was not going to play the 08 game until I saw the recent attempts to undermine. That won't work again."

That is all I said.

My husband and I will continue to stand with those in our area who want the rights for domestic partners, even though many of them don't think women have a right to birth control. I know you don't think so, and I mentioned the issue.

[dsc]

109. So you seriously think

that over half of the Democratic candidates for the House are anti choice? Are you honestly standing behind that? That is what the word mostly means.

On edit: If you really do think this then I guess I can see why you are so upset at the notion of any pro life candidates running. But let me say here and now, I will write a $100 check to NARAL if the majority of Democrats standing for the US House are indeed anti choice to use your words.

[fishwax]

58. I would love to see it. I wish he'd been the nominee in '04

i was really hoping for a dean/clark ticket, but alas ...

[EST]

60. Dean would be a wonderful choice.

He is doing a superstar job right where he is, proving, once again, the grumblers and dissenters to be talking about the pictures in their heads, rather than the real thing. I am so confident that Howard is his own man and knows what he is doing that, should he decide to run, he has my total, unqualified support-we should be so lucky.
In sum, he is the best thing to happen at the DNC and I would hate to break up a good team, but, given his honesty, integrity, and proven ability to read the tea leaves, (who first advocated telling the truth about the "culture of corruption and cronyism?") I would support him in whatever he chooses to do.

[HEyHEY]

61. I say go Don King

If you're gonna have a lying, conniving, unscrupulous sack of shit "patriot" in the white house, you may as well go with the best.

[Pastiche423]

63. Oh my yes!

But I believe TPTB would not allow it. They must be able to control the president and they can not control Dean.

[LWolf]

65. No.

I think he's fine right where he is.

[zippy890]

66. Dean's got my vote

:dem:

[EFerrari]

67. You can measure how scared the Thugs were of Dean

by how hard they tried to smear him. Your hubby is wrong. :)

[converted_democrat]

68. I would vote for him!! n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

69. I believe that he is a man of his word

When he ran for party chairman he promised that he would not run for President in 2008.

[tavalon]

70. Yes and no

I think people have underestimated how much everyone craves a plain speaker who will get down in the mud with these snakes and because of that, he might well win. That's a mighty good thing.

But on the other hand, he is doing amazing things as the head of the Democratic party and he might just be even more valuable there, speaking his mind, not worrying about "looking Presidential" (whatever the fuck that means these days).

So, I am of two minds. But one thing I know and one thing I know that he knows is that now is not the time to even look at that. For the first time in my limited memory, the midterms are more important than the Presidential race and that's where he's concentrating and that's where I'm going to concentrate my efforts as well.

If we win our majority back, the Presidential field will look markedly different from the field if we don't win.

[depakid]

72. I think he needs to find a graceful way out of the DNC

He's made quite a few critical AND TRUE statements about Republicans- and been backstabbed by by leading Dems time and again. Hell with that- he ought to take his straight talk back on the campaign trail- and leave the Republican enabler to find their own Abramoff's.

He's more courageous, honest and promotes more pragmatic policy choices than the majority of people in the party- and certainly more than the so called leadership.

[joeunderdog]

124. I agree. He should be no one's bitch. That's what

is so attractive about him.

The scream thing is bullshit. That's the media in cahoots with the RW who were afraid of his unfiltered presence (how ironic--his uncurbed enthusiasm did him in.) He can get past that glitch if he talks loud and clear about the TRUTH. How refreshing.

[eridani]

73. I dunno.

I'd like to see him have more time to implement his 50 state strategy.

[mmonk]

74. Yes

If he ran, I know I could support him.

[JNelson6563]

76. Anyone have Rude Pundit link?

I think it was an entry entitled Howard Dean will kick your ass. I can't seem to find it.

'Julie

[LizW]

77. It's "fuck your shit up"

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2005/06/howard-dean-will-fuck-your-shit-up.html

:D

[robbedvoter]

78. uhm, no.

[iconoclastNYC]

82. If Hillary wins the nomination ?

I think he should consider a third party run. Hillary would lead our party into a ditch.

[realFedUp]

85. We could use some yellers right now.

Some yeller dawgs.

[SmokingJacket]

86. My heart can't take it.

Americans aren't ready for him, clearly. The scream was just an excuse -- they can't handle someone as smart and no-bullshit as Dean.

Let him keep doing good work as chairman.

[Pachamama]

88. I do....

:hi:

[jsamuel]

89. No, Dean is doing a great job exactly where he is

sometimes not taking the promotion is the best thing for both the employee and the company...

[wryter2000]

90. I think he belongs where he is

Don't get me wrong. I'm a Deanie, and I wish the man were in charge of the entire world. (See my avatar.)

1) I believe it was part of the deal where he got the chairmanship that he agreed not to run in 2008.

2) He's a lightning rod for silly criticism, like the "scream." If he runs, the debate is likely to devolve into discussions of his "gaffs" and whether he's a "loose cannon" and other foolishness.

3) IMHO, doing what he's doing now is more important than who's the President. Even if we win the White House in 2008, it'll be a replay of the Clinton years where they go after whoever is in the WH for 8+ years and blame him/her for the inevitable clean up he/she will have to do after Bush ruined the country. What we need is a Dem Congress in 2006 so that all their crimes -- and I mean ALL of them -- come out. We need to show the Repugs/Neocons for what they are, murderous greedheads.

I want to see what the good doctor can accomplish in 2006 before I even start thinking of 2008. The elections of this past November looked promising. We need the Congress!

[PassingFair]

118. I believe he is doing his best.

I agree about witholding speculation until after this year.
If he runs, I will go to Vermont and offer my services this time.
If he stays as Chair, I will work for whomever has the backing of DFA.
I vote for truth. Dean tells the truth.

[AZBlue]

95. No.

Honestly, I'm still waiting for him to impress me in his role as party chair.

[MH1]

97. No, because he promised not to.

Although there are probably some sets of circumstances that would be extreme enough to make that promise not matter, in which case I would consider supporting him again - depending who else is in the running.

[onefortheroad]

98. No way...!!!

Not unless you want a massacre.

[stepnw1f]

121. pfttttttt..... Abramoff (nt)

[TNOE]

99. Abso damn lutely!

We need a fighter!

[WI_DEM]

100. He would be a strong candidate if he did, but he isn't

[blm]

101. Dean is pointing at corruption now, as he should, but it wasn't a priority

for him in the past as you may think.

During the 80s, Dean supported Reagan and Bush policies in Central America. Not staunchly like some other centrist Dems, but passively.

And in BCCI, I am quite certain that Dean did not encourage investigation, as there were hardly any Democrats then who even approved of the investigation let alone offered to help. And yes, Gov. often offer help to presidents or congress on matters that are important to them.

IranContra and BCCI contained more corruption and crimes against the constitution than a hundred Watergates.

[madfloridian]

108. Oh, wait, Dean as governor did not offer to help on BCCI?

Oh, yeah, blm....have to get those digs in don't you.

It was not his job description. Get real. As governor or doctor or lt. governor, it was not in his job description.

[NYCGirl]

115. That may be the silliest thing I've read here in a long time. NT

[AntiCoup2K4]

102. Considering the slate of candidates the DLC is ramming down our throats...

Hillary/Warner/Bayh/Biden etc. You have a choice between the merely horrible and the empty suit who doesn't know what he stands for until the DLC tells him.

If this is the best they got, then fuck em.

Fuck em anyway, because this "centrist" appeasement shit is not working.

This being the case, barring the return of Al Gore, or the miraculous emergence of someone none of us have thought of yet, Howard Dean might well be the ONLY viable candidate for President that we have.

And if there's a "Draft Dean" movement, I'm definitely in.

Don't give me "the scream". Don't give me "unelectable". It's a load of horseshit. Dean has been consistently proven right about every thing he said as a candidate in 2003/2004, and we all would be much better off today if the corporatist whore DLC machine hadn't derailed him.

Dean in '08. Hell yes. Give me someone better and I'll vote for him. Or her.

Go on.... give me someone better. I'm waiting.

I doubt you'll find anyone.........

[AntiCoup2K4]

105. I'm still waiting........

About 5 hours and nobody's named a better candidate yet......
:kick:

[dfgrbac]

103. I'd vote for Dean over any others I currently see.

He may still support the Empire, but at least he is anti-war.

[Mz Pip]

110. No

He'd carry Vermont.

Maybe.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[StellaBlue]

111. My idealist says yes, but my Machiavallian says HELL NO!

Dean has important things to say. He represents, to me, the real backbone and historical constituency of the party. But, realistically, if he ran, any other (more likely to be nominated) candidate, will have to constantly comment on Dean's comments, if you see what I mean (sorry, I am on my third glass of Cotes du Rhone - still celebrating the Rose Bowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Any other candidate will necessarily have to distance themself from Dean. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. He could never win. Not in the current climate.

I would vote for him, though.

$0.02.

[Jacobin]

112. I DO

I still think he could have won if the media hadn't assasinated him with the faux scream.

I love the man.

[wisteria]

113. No, I think he should continue as DNC chairman and not run again.n/t

[Swamp Rat]

116. Yes, if he wants.

I like him where he is now, head of the DNC, because he is a skilled, grassroots organiser, but it's ultimately up to him to throw his hat back into the ring. :)

[oneoftheboys]

122. He can't run, he already has a job.