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Franken asks - without doubt - THE BEST question so far about Cheney!!

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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:45 PM
Original message
Franken asks - without doubt - THE BEST question so far about Cheney!!
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 07:22 PM by Harper_is_Bush
Why didn't he go to the hospital?

FRANKEN: And you have to ask yourself the following questions. Why didn't he go to the hospital if-he went back to the ranch and had dinner. Now, if you are so worried-he said that he didnt get the story out because he wasnt sure how serious this was.

If you are so concerned about how serious this is, you go to the hospital. He said-when he was asked by Brit Hume in this very softball interview, you know, did you go onin the ambulance, he went, well, no. There wasnt enoughit was very crowded, and they didnt need another body.

Well, thehetheres plenty of vans that he could have gone to the hospital in. So, it begs the question...

SCARBOROUGH: You are making a good point. You are making a good point, that, had I shot somebody, had you shot somebody, we certainly would have rushed to the hospital, even if we were vice president of the United States.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/02/16.html#a7183

Now THAT resonates and supports speculation very nicely.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cheney was knee-walking drunk - that's why he couldn't go to the hospital
Purely speculation, of course. Purely speculation.

And they needed time to hide the ladies. Or figure out their stories. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. And time to put thier clothes back on too!
that is pure speculation also. Of course.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
62. Well, they also needed to take off the dresses
Cross dressing isn't something they would want to get out, is it?

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. he went back to the ranch and had dinner..
he probably DRANK dinner. *hic*
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. He DID go back to fix himself a cocktail after the shooting!
Armstrong, a longtime friend of the Cheney family, told CNN before the vice president's interview that she never saw Cheney or Whittington "drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident occurred, when the vice president fixed himself a cocktail back at the house."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/15/cheney/index.htm...
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. "...fixed himself a cocktail back at the house."
just in case the police showed up for a blood alcohol test, to skew the results.
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mark11727 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #31
71. ...just to steady his nerves, of course.... he must've been really upset.
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Speculation, but entirely plausible. nt
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very good point! n/t
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. And Scarborough agreed!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. that has been raised on here
most things are and part of what makes this place great... though i am glad to hear folks with a mic are raising the same suspicions.

peace
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kind of reminds me of 9/11.
MIA.....
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. He didn't go because he didn't care.
Of course he didn't want to arouse suspicion, but he would have had a contingent of Secret Service around him to prevent anyone smelling his breath, and I honestly believe he wasn't drunk as a skunk but may well have been somewhat incapacitated due to the combination of beer (how much?) and medication he's on.

I think he didn't go because he just didn't give a sh*t.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No, I can't believe that he didn't care. And you're wrong about the SS
if he had gone to the hospital, he would have had to talk to someone in authority. The SS would not have stepped in to prevent that, no way.

It's either that he was hiding something or just stupid or just so freaked out over the whole thing he didn't know what to do.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I can believe he didn't care one whit.
Hume asked if Whittington was a friend or an acquaintance. Cheney defined him as an acquaintance. The man is cold-hearted. If he cared at all, it's only in the context of how it affects him.

I don't know if he would have had to talk to someone in law enforcement or not. The overreaching power grabs and overstepping of authority that Cheney has exercised leads me to believe that any LEO would have been basically told to mind his/her own business. Who's got the guts to boss Cheney around? Not even bush can handle him.

It's all so disgusting. None of these so-called leaders have a clue what to do in a crisis.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That is wierd, because in the transcript he refers to him as a friend
3 times! But you're right, when asked specifically how he'd describe him he answers "acquaintance".

Very odd.

I think if he went to the hospital, and there was law enforcement there it would be VERY messy if the SS tried to prevent an interview at that time.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Well, any discussion about what would happen is now purely academic.
We'll never know, and that's precisely what Cheney had in mind.

BTW, they tried to blame the victim again this afternoon by claiming he wasn't licensed properly, but then it turns out Whittington was "grandfathered" in per Texas laws.

I suspect that ruse was tendered to Cheney for his approval and he gave the okay. Probably a Rovian play, but nonetheless, considering Cheney's brushoff of Rove's suggestions following the incident, I can only surmise that Cheney agreed to play "blame Whittington" again.

What a bastard.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I can't find a link on the Whittington unlicensed claim made...
:shrug:

you got one handy?

:toast:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It was on a DU thread.
"CNN just has Report Whittington wasn't certified to hunt?" General Discussion forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

You know I wouldn't go through this much trouble for anyone but you, don't you?

:toast:
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks!!! It looks like that was a rumor....because
I can't find it in the news.
Searched grandfather whittington licensed and all combinations thereof including a couple others.

Funny how rumors get started from one bad thread!

And don't tell me you only go to trouble for me, cause I'll get sweet on you!
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Well, apparently it was a right wing rumor which made its way to CNN.
Then Wolf's fact-checkers debunked it, although it was debunked on DU first.

Sweet on me? Aw, you'll change your mind the next time we butt heads. :P
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Didn't see it on CNN. I should skip work I guess!
Helmet on and ready for head-butting. :dunce:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. LOL. Got mine on, too.
:tinfoilhat:
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darkmaestro019 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
76. acquaintance? if I'd shot ANYONE in the face while fooling around hunting
Edited on Fri Feb-17-06 05:11 PM by darkmaestro019
I'd have gone to the hospital with them--acquaintance, friend, or complete stranger! And I'd probably have been sobbing the entire way.

And I can see "I didn't know you were there" coming out IN the paragraph of babble and crying I'd have to say when I ran up to them, but I'M SORRY would probably be the most frequent phrase IN the paragraph, along with a lot of "oh my god!"



edit: tidying
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. he's a sociopath--no empathy
his "worst day" happened because he was exposed as the evil, heartless bastard he is. He doesn't care that people know that about him--he only cares that his power might be curtailed if people know about him and his activities.

That Texas journalist on KO said today that Cheney "values his privacy." I'll bet he does. I think he is a craven criminal/pervert/ addict, just like the rest of these strutting fascists :(Hitler, Mussolini, Caligula) I think he has all kinds of terrible stuff to hide all the time. He is terrified someone will walk in on his "private activities." He literally said that phrase talking about why he let the Alexander handle the media. He was at the ranch for a "private activity," so he didn't have to follow WH protocol in re communications; he could just let the concierge take care of informing the public.

That is some kind of lame bogus excuse. What is the real reason they failed to get media help from the WH?? Today we find Rove, Cheney's friend, was involved early on, yet curiously passive--letting the Cheney twist slowly in the wind.

Now the thing won't go away and he's not able to hide in his usual invisible manner, and he can't handle it at all. He is simply hiding and trying to pretend he is invisible and the event never happened, if he just ignores it it will go away, like his heart disease. He gets through his entire life by pretending so hard that others believe it too. He is mentally ill.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
59. I like my privacy, too, but I respect that America is a nation of laws.
Cheney does not respect America or its structure of laws. I also think you're right. He is a sociopath. He has no empathy because all his moves are designed to put distance between himself and those he considers beneath him. He has craved power and finally achieved it in the form of being bush's puppetmaster. It was displayed for all the world to see.

Neither bush nor Cheney can handle themselves properly in a crisis. That's the most glaring thing, to me, of this entire episode. Cheney's "tough guy" persona is exposed as a lie.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. They needed to get their stories straight
Like any group of co-conspirators in a cover-up they had to write the story to tell together.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Somebody had to stay behind and clean the quail!
I believe Brit Hume was even concerned about he quail, that was one of the questions. He asked Cheney if he got the quail with the shot that hit Whittington. Can't you see Cheney's compassion and Hume's integrity. :sarcasm:
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. He had to stay behind so Pamela could give him a blow dry...
:evilgrin:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. A question more to the point is:
Why did the Swiss Ambasador, that was the actual eyewitness, give no statement to the Sherrif for the offical report?

It is obvious now that Mrs. Armstrong was not an actual eyewitness, as Cheney kept lying about.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
77. or a BJ that could get Cheney impeached
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Had he left the ranch, might he have been arrestable?
I mean, an average guy, in Texas, who shows up at a hospital were the guy he shot has been taken, wouldn't he be subject to police questioning, at the very least?

But, on the ranch, those police likely would need warrants to enter the property. It sounds like they tried, but ranch security turned them away, at least for a time. Sure that kept them from examining the scene of the shooting. But it also kept them away from Cheney, who I'm certain they would like to have had a chat with.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. another good point
he couldn't leave or they might have tested him for alcohol.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. And Katherine Armstrong is quoted as saying Cheney fixed a drink
after Harry left for the hospital as well.

I think it's perfectly clear why he didn't want to go to the hospital or meet with the Sheriff until the next morning.

On a side note, on Hardball tonight they put up a graphic of the timeline of events that looked something like this::

6:30pm EST - Cheney shoots Whittington

6:30PM EST - Sheriff is contacted and schedules a time of 9AM EST to meet with Cheney

7:20PM EST - Harry leaves in an ambulance for local hospital

Are you kidding me? That is the actual timeline that MSNBC's Hardball showed just before a break.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. What a dumb thing to say, huh? And Cheney thinks she was
the "perfect" person to speak for him! duh.

Regarding the timeline, that's different than what I saw. According to an AP timeline, it was an hour after the shooting that the cops were called. Medical personal were present and an ambulance was on call 'cause Cheney is a sick fuck.
Really, if you had to pick who you're going to get shot by on a hunting trip it would be Cheney. Or Bush. The American fear of losing thier leader causes huge precaution!
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. It was probably just a typo. But you know I keep wondering
about that timeline. The AP timeline sounds more accurate. But if it is, the sheriff would have been called at 7:30. A deputy showed up about 8 PM and was turned back. Doesn't it make more sense that the sheriff may have originally said "we'll have someone there at 8" meaning 8PM? If they truly had made the arrangements to come out the next morning, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they wouldn't do this in regards to a near fatal injury, they why did a deputy show up at 8 PM?
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spacelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. The fact that Cheney fixed himself a drink AFTER the shooting is
CYA in itself. If law enforcement had gotten to him & questioned him shortly after the shooting, he would have had an excuse to be intoxicated. Oldest ruse in the alcoholic book. I think I'll post this in a thread of its own.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. unless you KNOW you're drunk, in which case you hide out
at the ranch and sober up until the morrow, when you reappear

Not going to the hospital was telling.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. That's exactly what I've been asking
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 08:34 PM by Stephanie

I've asked it over and over.

Somebody needs to hire me. I am psychic.


If YOU Shot a Man, and Sent Him to the ICU, Wouldn't You Stick Around?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Dick Had Sat. Dinner Party & Sun. Quail Lunch Before Visiting Hospital >>>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Cheney Partied On, After Sending Whittington to the ICU --->>>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You need your own show!
:bounce:
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Don't worry. We are all as one in this.
I mostly have emotions to contribute. Rarely a bit of fact. But one thing is for sure- we all comprise a single body. It's not about you or me, but about us. I am constantly having to divorce my feelings from things. And on the other side of it, we use each other. It's not plagerism, but building upon what we have collected.

Just my thoughts. I'm constantly impressed with this whole thing, even after years of watching.

Cheney shows his true colors. What a caring guy. The oil pulses through hardened veins.
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justice1 Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
61. Looks like great minds think alike
I posted the same question in response to another thread, before I went to bed the other night. When I woke up the thread I was on, had dropped faster than Whittington.

Having seen your post and threads that Franken asked the same question, boosted my ego a bit. That was until I realized you posted shortly before me. Oh well, so long as the questions are asked in the MSM, is what is important.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
35. Franken said: Cheney should have eaten his dinner out of vending machines-
at the hospital.

Also that either Cheney was dead drunk or the biggest jerk in the world, or both.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Well, THAT is a stretch....
he could have sent a staffer to Red Lobster.

In any event, he should have attended the hospital.

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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. Scaroborough seemed like a human being in that clip!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Yes, there are days when I'm positive he didn't kill that intern
I'm being sarcastic, of course. There's nothing solid linking him to that tragedy. But then again, there are days when I'm positive that sarcasm is good for the soul.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. Notice that he said "had we SHOT somebody." (nt)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. agree! Almost best.... I have more.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Do share! n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:13 PM
Original message
Well how tall is victim what's his puss for one? What was the exact
time of the shooting for another? Where was the victim in relation to the dick shooter, I've read that he was walking up from a gully, dickless dick almost slipped and said that he saw him before he shot in his interview. Where was the sun in relation to Cheney and the victim? Did dick have on his specs? And I have more but I'm tired.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. IMO none of those are as good as "why didn't he go to hospital".
To me that resonates. That's something all people can wrap thier heads around.

Most people know if it was them they'd be going to the hospital no matter what.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. But the facts weren't and aren't apparently going to be investigated.
Sure not going to the hospital appeals to the emotion in all of us, but does not a conviction make.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. A conviction will never be made. So, a conviction in public opinion
is all that is left.

Not going to the hospital is a life sentence in that regard.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. This coupled with the fact that whit is james baker's brother- in-law
who goes from acquaintance when interviewed by sheriff to friend on every MSM broadcast should certainly rise to the level of a public opinion conviction!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
78. might be investigated by MSNBC's Matthews or Abrams, they're scrutinizing
the details, especially the accounts that don't match up
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threadkillaz Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. Cheney's answer.
Hume: And what did you do then? Did you get up and did you go with him, or did you go to the hospital?

Cheney: No, I had I told my physicians assistant to go with him, but the ambulance is crowded and they didnt need another body in there. And so we loaded up and went back to ranch headquarters, basically. By then, its about 7:00 p.m. at night.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. He couldn't borrow someone's car and follow the ambulance?
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 10:29 PM by rocknation
He's said there were three vehicles in the hunting party alone. And speaking of ambulances, doesn't one follow Cheney wherever he goes? Why would they have to call one, and why would it take nearly half an hour? Is that is way of explaining why Whittington wasn't checked into the hospital nearly three hours later?

:headbang:
rocknation
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Did you bother to look at what Franken said? You know...the topic?
They had other vehicles. Shit, he could have had a helicopter in there if he really wanted.
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threadkillaz Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
58. Yes, but I decided to post the entire quote.
nt
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
44. And if he had time to have dinner, he certainly had time
to talk to the police.

:headbang:
rocknation
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Don't forget that he apparentely had time to have a "cocktail" too!
:beer:
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #50
65. She said he fixed it himself. Why did they go to the trouble of
emphasizing 'he' fixed it?

One reason is there would be no one else to ask about the drink (how much booze was in it, exactly when was it fixed, how did the VP act at the time, who else was in the room and what did they talk about, etc)

Also, the post-shooting drink moves Cheney beyond having his blood, breath or behavior questioned or checked, in case he was confronted by the sheriff.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. He went to the ranch to have a cocktail, didn't he?
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
53. Same reason they went to the Kingsville hospital first,.
Still hoping to keep it all on the QT; hoping that the wounds were minor enough Whittington would just be patched up and sent home. The VP showing up at a small Kingsville hospital would attract too much attention to pull that off.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
54. Doesn't it strike you, that if these folks ever have to actually show up
in a courtroom or face a serious prosecutor's questioning, their already shaky stories will fall apart like so much wet tissue paper?

Sadly, there's a good chance it may never happen, but we can only hope.
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
55. BE SURE that Harry W's blood alcohol was tested at hospital
I have been told by someone who knows these procedures that on a guy this old, and brought in in this shape that his blood alcohol level was DEFINITELY tested and verified for what it was when Harry Whittington was brought in for treatment. They HAD to know if he had an elevated blood alcohol, or not, so as to proceed with proper course of treatment. The treatment changes if you are buzzed. So they have to have run a BAC on Whittington. Sure would like to know what that was.

SO Cheney doesn't follow along? Well, not only would he be questioned since he was the lone gunman, but if his buddy Harry was all lubed up with Scotch, and they smelled it on Cheney?? They would have tested him as well.

That is EXACTLY why he doesn't play tag a long to the hospital.
Good point from Franken (and of course from the person who told me about hospital procedures in this.)

Why is NO reporter asking if Whittington had an elevated BAC?
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
57. Hell Harry's fine. Where's that picnic? I need a drink! Consuelo!
Yea I'm sure he's real remorseful.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
60.  I think he didn't go because then people would know...
before everyone got their stories straight.

They were killing themselves to keep this thing quiet until Cheney was ready for it to go public.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
63. Now how would that look, the drunken VP at the hospital for the
whole world to see?

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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
64. Security

The security lockdown involved in having the Vice President wander into a public hospital without advance security arrangements would probably interfere not only with Whittington's treatment, but every other patient there.

If he had gone, we'd be going on about the guy who died in the parking lot undergoing a security check before being allowed to enter the emergency room.


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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Then he should have wandered into the police station instead.
Edited on Fri Feb-17-06 09:32 AM by rocknation
But at least what you say makes sense--more sense than "there wasn't enough room in the ambulance." Perish forbid he that he should expose himself to "the public."

:headbang:
rocknation
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #64
70. The Terrorists would not have known that Cheney was expected.
Hospitals have security staffs. Especially at night & on weekends, people do NOT just "wander" in. Visitors generally don't hang out in the ER--they stay in a waiting room.

Cheney could have been stashed in a secure room until he heard how his "friend" was doing. But he didn't really care.

And the sheriff's people could have spoken to Cheney in that secure room. But he may have needed more time to sober up.

Nice try!
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Terrorists?

I wasn't thinking about terrorists.

Hospitals do have security staffs - that doesn't mean they are qualified to provide security for the VP. He'd need a full moving perimeter of secret service agents, and any place he is going to enter or pass through is going to have be cleared out.

Hospitals also have drunks, drug users and violent criminals in the ER and crazy people in them with access to sharp instruments. Every drunken brawl and fist fight in town ends up in the ER with both sides, and both sets of friends, often being kept at bay by hospital security staff. On a Saturday night at the ER, the waiting area is not filled with shiny happy people.

Spontaneously moving people subject to secret service protection into any public area is a logistical clusterf---. You have to clear roads, shut down intersections (remember Ford's collision), secure entrances and exits, etc. etc. You can't just drive the VP into town for a visit and stuff him in that spare "secure room" that every hospital just happens to keep available in case he pops in.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Isn't it fear of Terrorists that makes Cheney & Shrub hide from the world?
Yes, hospitals do have "extra" rooms. They could have put him in an executive's office, where he could have been informed of his friend's progress. (Except he didn't give a fuck.) And where he could have given law enforcement a description of the event. (Except he probably had bourbon-breath.)

The amount of "necessary" security you describe is not all that necessary. Cheney preferred to have a nice dinner at the ranch & a few more drinks than even pretend he cared.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. No, it's not necessary...


...but it is standard, and it pre-dates 9/11. Freeptards used to whine about airports being closed when Clinton was coming or going, but that happens no matter who is president.

You know, there are a lot of nuts running around Texas with guns.

(I even heard about a guy who shot an old man in the face just a few days ago)

Reagan was the last president to take a bullet, and it is very hard to move these folks around in uncontrolled public situations while providing the kind of security to make sure that kind of thing doesn't happen again. Doing it in a hospital on short notice would necessarily get in the way of other things going on in the hospital and divert people from doing those other things.

If the idea is to stick him in a room somewhere instead of having him accompany his friend (although some hospitals only permit immediate family to do that) during treatment, then what's the point?

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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. Remember Clinton?
He used to go places without requiring a "lockdown".

If Cheney had just said "Fuck it, I'm going and I don't want any security lockdown or big SS presence...just two guys with me that's it" then it could have happened that way.

There's always a way IF there's a will. In Cheneys case, there was no will to go. It sounds like his only consideration for not going was because the ambulance would have been too full. Lame.
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
66. Every decent person relates to this. Well done Al! Plus, Franken's tone,
gestures and even his cadence were great on this one - easy to watch, listen to and understand.
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purplecat Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
68. Best question on the cover up actually is...
Found this on FDL, I thought I'd share...

Bottom line is that they recklessly endangered Harry's life by not sending him straight to a trauma center but instead to a small hospital where it might have been possible to keep everything hidden from the public. Fortunately the local docs recognized he needed to go to a trauma center, but a lot of time was wasted during which the patient might have died...

Dr. Kirk James Murphy, from the comments:
WHY IN THE HELL DIDN'T THE WHITE HOUSE DOCS SEND THE TRAUMA VICTIM TO THE NEAREST TRAUMA HOSPITAL?

Hi folks -

This stinks to high heaven - even in Texas.

Q: What variable determines survival after severe gunshot wounds to the head, neck, and torso?

A: How long it takes the trauma victim to receive trauma center care (or the equivalent).

The White House docs, of all people, know this. So does the Secret Service - when Reagan was shot in D.C., there were published reports of the SS cleaning out the civvies waiting in ER at gunpoint. They knew how to cut down on the wait - and they knew why.

I have every reason to believe the White House docs in Cheney's traveling ICU have excellent trauma medicine skills.

So I have all the more reason to ask what they were thinking of when they decided that the 78 year old victim of severe gunshot wounds needed the slow ambulance ride to the local non-trauma hospital - rather than the fast chopper ride to the trauma center?

If the White House docs and the Secret Service can't collectively figure out that trauma victims' chance of survival declines with each minute of delay in securing care, why are they being paid to protect assassination targets? Who hired these guys?
rwcole:
At the smaller hospital there would be fewer prying eyes- and it's possible some of em knew a doc there who could be counted on. Once they went to the big hospital- the chances of keeping it covered up evaporated.
Dr. Murphy again:
The same White House docs who turned down the helicopter medevac to the trauma center in order to send their elderly trauma victim by vehicle to the non-trauma hospital -

Those folks?

Earlier in the week Whittington's hospital said they were involved in his care when he developed cardiac complications.

Then Whittington's hospital changed the story to say they needed to consult with the doctors who had first treated the patient, hence the need to involve the White House docs in the care of the victim their boss shot some days before.

The chronology in the Corpus Cristi Times establishes:

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Yvonne Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

OK - Whittington rolls in the non-trauma center's ER at Kingsberg and within seventeen to twenty-two minutes later the ER is calling the medivac flight - the same service the Secret Service first notified at around 6 PM. The ambulance left Kingsberg at 7:19 PM and arrived at fifty minutes later.

Hmm...so the same docs who were with the victim from 5:30 (or 5:50 - choose your eyewitness account) could have summoned the air ambulance at any time thereafter.

Yet it was the docs in Kingsberg who reached the astonishing conclusion that this 78 year-old victim of severe gunshot wounds required air transport to a trauma center - a conclusion which escaped the medical team caring for the patient over the preceding sixty to ninety minutes.

So we are asked to believe that when Mr Whittington's condition worsened, the docs at the trauma center required consultation with the same team who never figured out their patient required the trauma center...until they got to a hospital and some other doctor told them?

Uhhh-huuuh.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Wow! Welcome to DU!
That's an awesome first post! :hi:
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