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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:47 PM
Original message
Cheney could face criminal charges
DALLAS - If the man wounded by Dick Cheney dies, the vice president could in theory at least face criminal charges, even though the shooting was an accident.


Dallas defense attorney David Finn, who has been a state and a federal prosecutor, said Wednesday that a Texas grand jury could bring a charge of criminally negligent homicide if there is evidence the vice president knew or should have known "there was a substantial or unjustifiable risk that his actions would result in him shooting a fellow hunter."

To indict Cheney, the grand jury would have to conclude that a reasonable person in the vice president's place would say to himself, "I am not pulling the trigger because this other guy might be in front of me," Finn said.

The charge carries up to two years behind bars, but with no previous felonies Cheney would be eligible for probation, the former prosecutor said.

Manslaughter, a more serious charge, would require a prosecutor to prove Cheney was reckless, which would be "virtually impossible under the facts we know today," said Michael Sharlot, professor of criminal law at the University of Texas at Austin.


more...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/chen... ;_ylt=AuMGS2wmU9vaQ8XyLwtgVSVqP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Onward and OUTWARD ------------Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO /T
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. lol... I Hear Ya! (nt)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. How about the other tens of thousands of murders he has committed?
Starting with those on 9-11? Then on to Afghanistan and Iraq.
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True_Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. He should be facing criminal charges anyway
Anyone else would be in deep shit if they shot someone while hunting. Anyone else would have been taken to jail, and there would definitely be an investigation.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Should. Should face criminal charges, and not just the shooting either. n
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes
How about multiple criminal charges for Darth Cheney?
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antonialee839 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe if the police had been able to interview him right away
he would have been hauled off for gunning down a guy while intoxicated.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. HELLO!?! You hit the nail squarely with the hammer of TRUTH!
WHY ELSE was the release/investigation of the story
delayed???
To allow the necessary time for the DICKHEAD to sober up...
Make no mistake about it.
BHN
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Yea, and I want to know what kind of role the Secret Service
played in all of this.

I smell something...and it's not just the gun powder from BIG DICK's shotgun.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. Cheney could face charges in shooting



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/politics/D8FPU...

Cheney could face charges in shooting

By MATT CURRY

Associated Press Writer


Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - Page updated at 9:47 PM

From the Associated Press


....In a TV interview Wednesday, the vice president accepted full blame for the shooting and defended his decision not to publicly disclose the accident until the following day. He called it "one of the worst days of my life."

If Whittington recovers, Cheney could still face a felony charge of negligently causing injury to an aged person, Sharlot said. But he said such a charge would be "quite unusual" in the case of a hunting accident.

In the only other case of someone being shot by a vice president, Aaron Burr was indicted on murder charges in New York and New Jersey for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel in 1804, but he was never tried and finished out his term in office.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. if ANYONE else was in the same situation
they'd be in JAIL right now. 1., cheney didn't have the proper permit, 2. the evidence clearly shows the victim was a hell of a lot closer than the thirty yards they've claimed, something a few simple tests could prove beyond a doubt, 3. they delayed his talking to police for a convenient 14 hours. this would be plenty to get a grand jury to indict someone in similar circumstances. the lack of permit alone would have joe citizen in serious trouble following an accidental shooting. we can only hope that justice will be served in this affair, but i'm not holding my breath.
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f-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. We need a major write and call in to Texas to invstigate this properly
Perhaps get all the other groups such as move.on etc and do the internet pettiton thing, notify the media and then swamp the county with all this stuff in front of the national press and DEMAND a legitimate investigation of what happened, not some two bit fucking whitewash which is what we have gotten up til now!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. I seriously doubt
the lack of a permit means anything much. Hunting laws are not strictly enforced anywhere, is my impression.

But I agree with you that they know exactly how close Whittington was by his wounds and the cover-up is so apparent that there must be more to the story.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. Huntig laws are very strictly enforced in Oregon
....where I used to work for the Dept of Fish and Game.
Serious stuff.
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Simply not true.
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 09:11 AM by 7P Dude
A LOT of other people have been in the same situation in the same area.

If anyone else was in the same situation, there would be a mention in the local newspaper, a reported filed with TP&W, and the shooter would be sitting with the family at the hospital. The county constable would show up and have an informal conversation with the shooter and that would be it. If the DA spent five minutes even thinking about it, it would be a surprise.

(I'm not speculating on that, I've seen it happen)

Disclaimer : Assuming nothing comes of the beer thing.
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. vicepresident
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. LOL!
:D



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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. Lol!!!
I can't top that but heres a go
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Call me crazy, but I don't think this is worth dwelling on.
A grand jury will not have the evidence mentioned. I think continuing to beat this to death is a mistake when there are so many more important things for us to put our time behind. It was an accident, no different from many that happen (I would guess, since I don't hunt) on a weekly basis around quail hunts (or whatever it was they were hunting). Let's move on.

JMO
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Multitasking
(mul' ti task) v. 1. A mode of operation offered by an operating system in which a computer works on more than one task or application at a time. 2. Also can describe people who excel at juggling several tasks at once, as opposed to those who work from task to task in a linear fashion.

Please don't tell me to move on.
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Do you really think something will come out of it?
Or will it be much ado about nothing and end up being one of those things the pukes can craft into a soundbite for 06 and 08? I do not think he will go to jail or otherwise be implicated criminally...in Texas?...not a chance. Never gonna happen.

How bout this, I'll move on and multitask on things that are relevant IMO.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. You just do that, mmmmkay?
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 10:26 AM by mac56
You don't think it's relevant that the VP admitted he'd been drinking before he shot a 78 year old Republican lawyer in the head? The VP who's had two DUIs and is on heart medication?

While they were on a Valentines Day weekend hunting trip with two women not their wives?

And then he waited 24 hours before reporting it?

And his Secret Service agents wouldn't allow local law enforcement to talk with him?

And the guy he shot may not survive?

What's your definition of "relevant", anyway? A blue dress?

The only reason nothing might come of this would be if apologists persuade us to pay attention to "more important stuff".
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. You are 100% right. I couldn't agree with you more.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Yeah. Its not like there was a blow job involved.
Think nothing of it.
The vice president shot a man in the face......

THE VICE PRESIDENT FUCKING SHOT A MAN IN THE FACE!!!!!

and he says he was not drunk.
He only had one beer. He said it. Cheney would NEVER lie. End of story. He visited the victem i the hospital. What more do you expect from him. Jeeeez!

Local law enforcement was obstructed by the SS ( secret service), but never mind.Dick says it was one of the worse days of his life. Clearly he has suffered enough, for SHOOTING A MAN IN THE FACE.
lETS Move on..........................................................................................
..........................

But heres what keeps tickling at my mind:
THE VICE PRESIDENT SHOT A MAN IN THE FACE!

Fuck!

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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. Can't see the forest for the trees
This, IMHO, is crazy. This man has committed treason and crimes against humanity. This man divulged classified information to harm someone. He perpetrated a war where too many people have died. This hunting issue, granted its fishy, he got special treatment, the works, but it is like worrying that a bank robber jaywalked across the street to rob the bank.
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Al Capone
finally went down for tax evasion.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Great point!
The final word. Slam dunk. Keep the pressure on.
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. Cheney's Negligence -- Is it a felony?
I also happened across this post ar tpm.com

I was going to post separately but it fits nicely within this thread.



Jerry Ward, Idaho Democrat
Cheney's Negligence -- Is it a felony?
By Jerry M. Ward | bio
I am an attorney from Idaho. I heard somebody in the media say something to the effect that if Mr. Whittington died, then there would "possibly" be an investigation, which got me thinking.

My uncle was shot in a hunting accident many years ago, and nearly died. It was clearly an accident, but I believe the shooter was charged (and of course, this occurred in Idaho). My thought was, whether Whittington dies or not, Cheney certainly appears to have been negligent, and arguably reckless. In Idaho we have a statute regarding "reckless endangerment," so I wondered if Texas has a similar charge. Since we have the casemaker library, which covers Texas in addition to other states, I decided to see what I could find.

Lo and behold, Texas Penal Code Title 5, Chapter 22.04(a)(3) makes it an offense for someone to injure an elderly person (over age 65) by an act of recklessness or criminal negligence. Subsection (f) or (g) would make it a "state jail felony."



PENAL 22.04


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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Thank you Mr. Ward
I like the sound of state jail felony when referring to Cheney.

He's also guilty of treason and war crimes, but anything that puts him behind bars works for me.
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. It's not Idaho
Speaking from experience in the same area, normal people don't get charged for what Cheney did.

Of course, normally the only media attention these things get are a mention in the local newspaper.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. I've got better chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket.
Cheney and his ilk are above the law. It will never happen.

Never.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. Could? Needs to be SHOULD! n/t
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. Similar Case Same Area
There was a similar case in South Texas withing the past two years where a guy killed another member of his hunting party during a hog hunt. He wasn't so much as charged with a misdemeanor.

Typically, barring obvious negligence, you don't get charged for a crime for hunting accidents in South Texas. The only way I see this for this to bring up actual criminal negligence is to focus on the alcohol aspect of it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
31. "If the shooter was tight...
... you must indict." :evilgrin:
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Dead Eye Dick recommends...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. Has any reporter or member of the public seen the victim?
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 12:05 PM by formercia
or is he just resting quietly in a state of rigor mortis?

This reminds me a little of the movie 'Dave.'
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes.
He's sitting up and talking. He says he doesn't understand why such a big deal is being made of it.

The hospital has also said the only reason he is still in ICU is the added privacy it allows in this special case.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Well sure...privacy...
That and atrial fibbrillation will get one a bed in ICU.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. omg...
:eyes:


yeah, privacy, it has nothing to do with the lead pellet in his heart...


:eyes:


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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. God forbid someone else get sick enough to need a bed in ICU....
My wife had a brain anyurism 2 weeks ago and she spent 2 days in the emergency room waiting for a bed in ICU and this clown gets one for privacy......I guess people don't get really sick in Corpus Christie.....
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. "Corpus Christi", no "e"
Yes, I know I'm a grammar nazi.

I only bring this up because there was an article yesterday that talked about how the DA got calls from people who claimed to be tax payers demanding an investigation. The funny thing is they misprounced the county name "Newces", and "Newsees" (not a mistake somebody who's lived here more than two days would make). For future reference, it's "Corpus Christi" and you pronounce it new-a-ses with the emphasis on the a.

Regarding the victim, I assume they would move him out of the ICU if there were a more vital patient. With all of the media coverage, that's about the only part of the hospital they can efficiently keep people out of. I doubt the media coverage is going to die down to the point that they don't have to worry about it.
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Re: The Pellet
They actually plan to leave it in.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. yeah... I know...
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. A Republican being expected to obey the law?
God, next those commie libruls will want gays to be treated like human beings!
:sarcasm:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. According to the attorney on Ed Schultz's show, death within ONE YEAR
of the accident caused by the wounds would support a charge of involuntary manslaughter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-14-06 GD): Attorney on Ed Schultz' Show just said he researched TX law, and {the reason the WH Drs are so involved in this Whittington case is that they're scared! TX law states "If a victim dies "WITHIN ONE YEAR" of a shooting incident, the shooter can be charged with involuntary manslaughter!}

More on the TX penal code in this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-14-06 GD): The Reason For the Cheney Coverup: He's Guilty of a FELONY under TX Law!
Comment/excerpt: berni_mccoy cites the Texas penal code.

I'll add this to the COMPILATION of threads on the Cheney shooting in the GD and in the Research Forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-14-06 RESEARCH FORUM): Compilation of threads on 2/06 Cheney shooting incident, including videos

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-14-06 GD): Thread COMPILATION on Cheney shooting/Fuddgate - including VIDEOS:
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Except ...
Similar cases in the same region that resulted in death within one month resulted in jack shit.

This isn't the first time somebody has been injured in a hunting accident in the same area in similar circumstances. I can cite two cases where there was a death involved and nobody was charged with anything.

Why would this be different? Frankly, I find it disgusting that people are so concerned about this rich white laywer when they couldn't give less of a damn about past victims.
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