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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:40 PM
Original message
Gonzo-ales Withholding Plame Emails That Implicate Cheney
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 01:41 PM by Me.
Gonzales Withholding Plame Emails
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report

Wednesday 15 February 2006

Sources close to the investigation into the leak of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson have revealed this week that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has not turned over emails to the special prosecutor's office that may incriminate Vice President Dick Cheney, his aides, and other White House officials who allegedly played an active role in unmasking Plame Wilson's identity to reporters.

Moreover, these sources said that, in early 2004, Cheney was interviewed by federal prosecutors investigating the Plame Wilson leak and testified that neither he nor any of his senior aides were involved in unmasking her undercover CIA status to reporters and that no one in the vice president's office had attempted to discredit her husband, a vocal critic of the administration's pre-war Iraq intelligence. Cheney did not testify under oath or under penalty of perjury when he was interviewed by federal prosecutors.

The emails Gonzales is said to be withholding contained references to Valerie Plame Wilson's identity and CIA status and developments related to the inability to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Moreover, according to sources, the emails contained suggestions by the officials on how the White House should respond to what it believed were increasingly destructive comments Wilson had been making about the administration's pre-war Iraq intelligence.

Gonzales, who at the time of the leak was the White House counsel, spent two weeks with other White House attorneys screening emails turned over to his office by roughly 2,000 staffers following a deadline imposed by the White House in 2003. The sources said Gonzales told Fitzgerald more than a year ago that he did not intend to turn over the emails to his office, because they contained classified intelligence information about Iraq in addition to minor references to Plame, the sources said. Cont

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021506J.shtml
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh wow
So is this why now the "Saddam tapes"? And can Fitzgerald do anything about this?
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. I don't care if there are tapes from Moses
it's about time, these individuals are held accountable, if Gonzales obstructed
a criminal investigation, he is the chief prosecuter in the US, he should resign.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. You bet. Hand 'em over. NOW!
Peace.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #68
91. you know this is beginning to remind me of TV
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 06:32 PM by MissWaverly
the problem is that these are not real officials, just actors playing a part, so Chertoff
can sit there with a straight face and say he has no intention of resigning, they're really
big on I-spy computer games and getting electronic surveillance for illegal immigrants,
Michael Brown is right, FEMA should be seperate, it's all security with them, and
also Gonzales, he's the attorney general participating in a cover up. (another actor-
playing the role of US official).
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. I know, I am really freaking out, this is surreal. I wasn't politically
savvy enough during frosh year in college to appreciate a lot of the details of Watergate, although I got the gist. This is bigger and keeps leading back to 9-11, our intelligence ops and the incompetence/coverups of the present * admin.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. reminds me of the guy who says
I am not a doctor, I just play one on Tv. It's amazing how there just is not a sense
of accountability to the American people. They are government officials not ceos at
Enron.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Me thinks Cheney is serving out his last days in the administration.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. One Can Only Hope
But the shooting is taking such focus that it is outshadowing everything else.
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
87. Thats why Cheney Shot him.
Get drunk enough so it won't hurt, and I'll just pepper you with this 28 gage, and we can focus the press on this for long enough that the plame case will go away.

It's a classic case of "Hey! what's that behind you?"

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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. He's certainly going out with a bang
so to speak.


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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. LOL
As Stephanie Miller would say: it's the gift that keeps on giving!
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
76. It shouldn't stop with Cheney........
the entire bush administration, from the top down to the lowliest bush peon appointed in our government, should be removed from office. As they said during the Nixon years, "there's a cancer growing on the presidency". In this case the cancer has spread throughout the entire government, Congress included. At this point it's almost looking terminal, if something isn't done soon, DAMNED soon, it will be terminal. This country is on the verge of political collapse, it can't take much more "compassionate conservatism". :puke:
I swear to every deity on the planet, after the political and social carnage the Republicans have caused, not one of these sons of bitches should be elected again for the next 25 years. This SHOULD spell the death of the Republican party, but will it? No, because the American people are gullible and will fall for their line of crap again and again. All they have to do is shout, "gays", "abortion", "terror" and "taxes" and the stoopid asswipes will fall all over themselves to vote for them again. If you couldn't tell, I have a very low opinion of the American electorate right now. How many times do we have to tell them, how many times do they have to be bludgeoned by GOP lies and corruption to learn?
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
94. yes and he is looking fatter and more unhealthy than ever. Is he trying
to kill himself?

He can live his life in jail, I think it's a better option for him.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Remember how the right used to complain about Janet Reno?
Ironic, isn't it?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. So, why not declassify the emails (that probably don't need to be anyway)
This admin would classify a tuna salad recipe.
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obstruction of justice, Gonzo will be disbarred.
:popcorn: :party:

Now, if they would JUST FREAKING GET IT DONE!

I'm sick of Darth Cheney destroying America on the tax payer dime.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I'm sure he has some convoluted rationale....
for why it isn't obstruction, crook that he is. I can't believe they confirmed that piece of shit to be Attorney General.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
77. They were "keeping their powder dry", remember?
Well, the powder is so damned dry it's turned into dust. Just ONCE I'd like the Democrats to act like an opposition party! :mad:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I Bet No One Knows About This
Just sent emails to KO, HB, and Dobbs in the hope someone will pick the story up. Will do more later.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kick & Recommend!

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to DECEIVE
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Cheney did not testify under oath ...
We need a new amendment, seriously - whereby ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS, from the President right on down, are deemed to be UNDER OATH at all times when speaking in an official capacity. That means ALL hearings, interviews, statements to the press ... ALL OF IT.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Lying to fed law enforcement is still a crime, regardless if under oath or
not. At least, that's my understanding.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Right.
When he spoke with Fitzgerald, he was not under oath. But the article implies that VP Cheney spoke to others investigating this, early in 2004. That would possibly have been the FBI investigators who spoke with several White House officials. As Martha S. found out, and Scooter L. has since, one need not be sworn in, as in a courtroom setting, to be charged with lying to federal investigators. It only changes the name of the charge from perjury to obstruction of justice.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. You're right.
But I'm not talking about just the current instances. I'm talking about ALL elected office-holders (congressmen, senators, everyone) should be deemed to be under oath whenever speaking to ANYONE in an official capacity.

Don't want to be subject to criminal charges if you LIE in the course of your official duties? Fine - don't run for office.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. I thought while they were in office they were always under oath??
:shrug:
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. Yes, but the oath doesn't require them to tell the truth.
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
88. He doesn't need to be under oath, remember Martha Stewart?
all you have to do is lie to a Federal agent and they can throw you in jail. oath or no oath.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Can't Gonzales be disbarred for this? n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. It depends.
If a court rules he has to turn over the information, and he does, it becomes something like in the Nixon days (go figure!), and that doesn't become a legal offense.

If he has taken part in the destruction of evidence, also as in the Nixon era, then he can be in very real trouble.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Thanks. This is getting very interesting. n/t
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
108. H2O Man
I know no one likes us stating as such, but I've about given-up any hope of any form of justice from this disgusting, reckless, lawless bunch.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #108
112. It has taken longer
than the public thinks it should. There is a reason .... very simply, this crew has learned from their past mistakes in the fays of Watergate and Iran-Contra ..... and they had almost six months to cover things up between the time of the crimes, and Fitzgerald being brought into the picture.

In terms of past White House scandals, it is taking a long time. However, in terms of investigating organized crime, this is not long and drawn out, it is moving along fine. Thus, there is frustration, because the public views it in terms of politics, while Fitzgerald is up against organized crime. Very well organized crime.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #112
117. Thanks again, H2O Man
For your thorough, and much thought-out response. Appreicate it.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. So, our own USAG is guilty of obstruction of justice.
Imagine that. :eyes:

Oh, yeah, he's guilty of approving of torture, too, which is also illegal. :eyes:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Well don't forget
at the NSA "hearings" he said he represented the President. Doesn't he represent the people?
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Is he the guy who thinks the Geneva Conventions are "quaint," as well?
Or am I thinking of someone else?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. That's him.
The famous "Gonzales Memo". I sure hope he's going to enjoy all the money that's coming to him.

Because he's going to be villified for life.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
55. I'm sure he will prosecute himself to the full extent of the law
The foxes have officially transitioned the henhouse into their private golf resort.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
62. It's not obstruction if he claims national security - that issue will
have to be litigated. Now, if Gonzales had anything to do with erasing or losing those other e-mails, he will be charged with OOJ.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #62
80. I'm pretty sure the WH was ORDERED to turn over all communications,...
,...relating to Plame and Wilson. National security doesn't apply to a court's order.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obstruction of justice by the not so speedy Gonzales
shocking.

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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Perfect Storm for Cheney, that prick
Too bad he had to blast that old guy to get his name out there amongst the unthinking that he's an asshole.

Chinks in yer armor Cheney Boy......You are going down........
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. It appears that the bush administration may finally be on its way.......
OUT!!!!!
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
78. They might have been........
if we had a Supreme Court that wasn't stacked with Reich-Wing ideologues. I'm sure glad the Democrats kept their powder dry. :eyes:
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. So is it still lying if it's not under oath?
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 02:29 PM by Patsy Stone
Is there any recourse?

I was pretty sure Gonzo used those few hours between his receiving the "turn over your stuff" call and sending out the mass "turn over your stuff" e-mail to the WH staff wisely. It looked like 18 minutes of missing tape...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Sure.
Just think in terms of Libby (or Martha)

(1) Under oath = perjury.

(2) to an investigator, not under oath = obstruction
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. I was hoping you'd say that!
:hi: and thanks.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Even though Cheney was not under oath..
..can he still be indicted for making False Statements to investigators (a la Libby)?
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Ordinarily, lying to fed investigators is a crime even if not under oath,
as I understand.

Spiro Agnew, Nixon's VP, as I recall tried to argue that he had to be impeached first before he could be indicted, but the Solicitor General at the time disagreed and said the VP was not immune from indictment while in office. Of course, that was then.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
79. Definitely
It falls under the False Statements Act. I wrote a whole thread about it. It is the twin prosecutorial weapon to perjury.

Perjury has to be under oath but much harder to prove. False statements to a government official need not be under oath, doesn't have a requirement to prove intent to deceive or even that the subject used "conscious avoidance." That's why Specter didn't put Gonzalez under oath at this stage.

It carries up to five years and $10,000 fine. It's used far more than perjury for prosecutions.

Also when Fitzgerald interviewed Cheney and Bush, he had his FBI team with him who will serve as witnesses. No way out.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. kick n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good find!
Nominated. Looks like Dick has a lot of explaining to do. None of this is really a surprise for those who read DU.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. Good afternoon, H2O Man
On a related note, if you haven't seen this thread, you might want to check it out. I recall at one point, your presence was requested over there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Thank you, Emit
It looks like an interesting thread.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. hey you two - this is a damning statement - also a few questions
Aside from the emails that have not been turned over, there are also emails that Patrick Fitzgerald, the Special Prosecutor investigating the case, believes were either "shredded" or deleted, the attorneys said.

In a court document dated January 23, Fitzgerald says that, during the course of his investigation, he had been told that some emails from the offices of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney had not been saved. His letter does not claim that any member of the Bush administration discarded the emails, but sources close to the probe say that is what Fitzgerald has been alleging privately.


Furthermore it looks like Cheney is cooked based on the fact his testimony contradicts Libby's - what is you all's take on this.

How long until a Cheney indictment?

Can we get the Gonzo emails????
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. My answer is this:
Do you remember when Matt Cooper and Judith Miller were appealing right up to the US Supreme Court, attempting to avoid testifying? And ALL the federal judges who reviewed the case noted Fitzgerald had something really huge? Well, it wasn't that Scooter lied. It was that Cheney ran the WHIC offensive from March 2003 on. When Dean wrote "Worse Than Watergate," he knew. He knew.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. So that is a yes on Fitz being able to get the Gonzo emails or is that
a yes that indictments are on their way for Darth?

Or yes to both

thank you for getting back so quickly
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. I'm curious
what the sources for Raw Story have said. I am under the impression that at least one other person from State has some of the "rare" material.

Thus far, the federal courts have been very respectful of everything Fitzgerald has done. And that includes the conservative judges, too. This should help assure DUers that the cases will not be derailed by conservative judges. Much of this is too obviously in violation of the law for any judge to turn a blind eye.

I think that the current Grand Jury is going to take action soon.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. I think so as well, and I think Leopold's sources feel this as well
they are able to see where Fitz is headed and hence is why they are talking to Leopold, also they wouldn't be talking to Leopold just for the hell of it. In other words they(the sources) are only talking about situations and events that they are fairly certain on.

upon thinking about the sources and what they have to gain and lose by talking to Leopold leaves me with this thought,


"This does not bode well for Darth at all" :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. it's a great time to throw cheney an ANVIL
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
72. Armitage?
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 04:11 PM by Me.
or the squeak Hannah?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Would not
surprise me.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
49. Must Come Clean
My friend RB sent it to me and I jumped all over it.

BTW: Why don't they just redact the supposedly classified info?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Well,
I'd guess it's because it isn't the classified information that they are worried about.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. right,
they are worried what was said in those emails ie: plotting to discredit Wilson-

Man they are so stupid to leave all of that around on email, major assleaking from this one. It doesn't matter how hard they clinch their butts together this is going to leak out of thier asses.


my microwave is beeping :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. This is also significant re: Cheney's obstruction of justice
From the article:

"Cheney testified for a little more than an hour about his role in the leak in early 2004. What he told prosecutors appears to be identical to testimony his former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, gave before a grand jury during the same year. Libby was indicted on five-counts of obstruction of justice (OOJ), perjury, and lying to investigators related to his role in the Plame Wilson leak."

In other words, they both lied to Fitz about the plot to out Plame, but Cheney hasn't been called on it yet. And, then here's another lie by Cheney. Recently, Libby testified to the Grand Jury that he originally learned about Plame's identity from Cheney. But, Cheney had earlier testified:

"Cheney told investigators that he first learned about Valerie Plame Wilson and her employment with the CIA from Libby."

I see many counts of OOJ that Fitz will nail Cheney with. That's atop the conspiracy charges resulting from his "authorizing" Libby to share classified documents with Judy Miller and other reporters.

So, what are you waiting for? Indict Dick Now!

Mark

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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. that is precisely what I read when I saw those statements that you
highlighted. Darth is soooooo gone, it is only a matter of time before Fitz drops the hammer on Darth and friends.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Can you hear, "For the good of the Grand Old Party"?
I'm here in DC, and it's deafening. That's what's beneith this silly shooting incident feeding frenzy.

The media will eat Cheney and the others alive if he litigates this.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
83. What's everyone so worried about?
Our president said that if he found out anyone in his administration leaked Plame's name they'd no longer be in his administration, right? :shrug: Hey, if we can't trust our president who CAN we trust. I have every faith that bush will do the right thing.

:rofl: Oh....sometimes I crack myself up.......bush will do the right thing :rofl: man, that's a good one! :rofl:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Who cares about doing the RIGHT thing? Not them, surely.
But, the RNC don't want to see another "Last Days" style court drama during an election year. They need that about as much as they need a hole in their head. :evilgrin:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
90. Keyrect
And that leads me to the next question, will FitzG. call them on this and ask them to give him a redacted version?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #90
113. I believe he has.
It is up to the presiding judge to decide that; either way he decides, it gets appealed. This is one of the things that is being done outside the public's view.

Under normal circumstances, attempts at triangultion would be damaging to the prosecution. In this case, it may slow the case in some ways, but Fitzgerald will use the tactic against the two other sides.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. Classified Intelligence Information? Um, the judges in this case have
already seen a bunch of classified intelligence information. That's what was redacted in the appellate ruling by Judge Titel.

Why would Gonzales' reasoning stand up?
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. In addition, no reason at all why redacted versions can't be provided.
Except that they want to obstruct justice. Oops.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. Gonzalez is a political hack--he shouldn't be attorney general
Dems should demand his resignation.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Gonzales's wife, Martha Mitchell
was unavailable for comment.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
30. Looks like someone is throwing Cheney under the bus. And Gonzo too. n/t
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kayice Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Isn't Chertoff missing a whole day of crucial video tape?
lost, afraid to turn over, destroyed?
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. Fuddgate, Plamegate, Halliburtongate, Energygate, etc. It keeps getting
better and better.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
84. Yeah, but when the hell is it going to stop?
If this was a Democratic administration the impeachment process would be finished already. How much more of this can our country take? These people are not going to be removed without a helluva fight, it's going to get ugly, VERY ugly. I wouldn't be at all surprised if bush declared martial law, canceled elections etc. Who's going to stop them, the Reich-Wing stacked Supreme Court? When and how will this national nightmare end? :scared: This is what keeps me up at night!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. Obstruction of Justice.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #42
116. Bush has 'OJ'ed' the country, you've nailed it.
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 11:34 AM by EVDebs
I've always thought that guys who hang on golf courses, or quail-hunts, while the country is falling apart, or 'looking for Nicole's real killer', were a special variety of skanks. This episode with Cheney is just par for the course.

OJ'ed: Obstruction of Justice.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. This is a done deal now. Let's fucking get it done already!!!!!!!!!
Come on Fitz! Let's do this!!!!!!!!!!
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Patrick J Fitzgerald Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. Whittington Shooting Schmooting...
Brit Hume and our friends at FOX News might want to ask Dick some hard questions about how he shot himself in the foot with this Special Prosecutor:

"Cheney told investigators that he first learned about Valerie Plame Wilson and her employment with the CIA from Libby. Cheney testified that Libby told him that several reporters had contacted him in July to say that Plame Wilson had been responsible for arranging her husband's trip to Niger to investigate the Niger uranium claims"

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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
111. Well, that sounds like conspiracy to obstruct justice.
We know Libby didn't learn about Plame from "reporters," so for Cheney to also sing that tune, they had to have collaborated. Isn't that conspiracy?
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Isn't Gonzales Fitzgerald's boss? Shouldn't Gonzales resign
due to conflict of interest? Him and Cheney could go together.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. They may already have been indicted?
& still sealed?
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
105. Gonzales had to recuse himself from the case when he became AG due to
conflict of interest since he was WH counsel during the Plame outing and aftermath.

When Ashcroft recused himself from the Plame case and Fitz was appointed, Comey gave Fitz the powers of the Attorney General in regards to the Plame case. That didn't change when Gonzo became AG. So it's an interesting situation. Gonzales is Fitz's boss but technically not when it comes to the Plame investigation/prosecution.
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Blutodog Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
52. Laws?
Gonzo's response will be "LAW? We don't need no stinkin law!"
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
59. Gonzeles can't withold anything to a prosecutor
even if it is classified?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. It seems like a losing, last-ditch defense to me.
But, if Cheney et al. insist on it, that issue will have to be litigated.

That litigation could only be disasterous to the GOP from a public relations standpoint - so, I think the leadership (such as it is that isn't otherwise under indictment) is urging Cheney to resign as we speak.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
106. looks like he is winding down doesn't it
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. Since Fitzgerald has been on this case over two years and
uncovered all these inconsistencies, surely he realizes what a corrupt bunch we have in the White House and that the republican party are nothing but trouble.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
70. So, tell me, how does Fitz know about the emails if he doesn't have
them. How does he know what's in the emails?
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. From the article:
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 04:12 PM by incapsulated
"The sources said Gonzales told Fitzgerald more than a year ago that he did not intend to turn over the emails to his office, because they contained classified intelligence information about Iraq in addition to minor references to Plame, the sources said."

So he has knowledge that a) these emails have references to Plame and b) they are not being turned over because they have "classified information" and other bullshit excuses. That is a red flag to a prosecutor.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
71. What can Fitz do?
It's clear that he knows what is going on, and even fears that some of the emails have been deleted or "shredded". As long as he is facing this "classified information" bullshit, what is his next move?

Anyone?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
86. He Is A Man Who Bides His Time
Don't forget, we learned yesterday, that he is still pursuing the Islamic charities case. I can guarantee you that when the lower court denied him the phone records he wanted, most people thought he had reached a dead end. J Miller even crowed about it. Those who think they have beat him have seriously misunder-estimated him.
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Beth in VT Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
74. What I find ironic is that Fitzgerald has a spokesman.
What does this guy do all day?!
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. Says "no comment" an AWFUL LOT!!! 10 Billion times a day?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
81. Gonzalez is one twit
that makes me rethink my stand on capital punishment.

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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
89. This guy is in law enforcement now - he MUST BE NEUTRAL!!
What the fuck is wrong with this hack?

If he can't fairly apply the law, then he must resign now!
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cami715 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. Gonzales made it very clear during the hearings this week
that he works for Bush, not for the American people. He referred to Bush as his "client."

I believe he needs to pull out his job description and read it. He is not Bush's personal defender. He works for the American people and if he cannot do that, he needs to resign.

He is such a sleaze!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. I had no idea how seedy this little weasel was until the NSA hearings
This guy is falling in line with the "worst ever" administration logo!!

Bush - worst President EVER

Cheney - worst Vice President EVER

Rumsfeld - worst Defense Secretary EVER

Ashcroft - 2nd worst Attorney General EVER

Gonzales - worst Attorney General EVER

Condi Rice - biggest sycophant suck-up loser EVER

This Congress - least oversight EVER

shall I go on?
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
92. Just for fun, let's count the number of Cheney lies in this article.
1. Moreover, these sources said that, in early 2004, Cheney was interviewed by federal prosecutors investigating the Plame Wilson leak and testified that neither he nor any of his senior aides were involved in unmasking her undercover CIA status to reporters

Perhaps that counts as two lies, one for himself and one for his senior aides.


2. and that no one in the vice president's office had attempted to discredit her husband, a vocal critic of the administration's pre-war Iraq intelligence.

3. Cheney said he had received an intelligence briefing on the allegations in late December 2003 or early January 2004 and had asked the CIA for more information about the issue.

Uh, faulty memory with the dates there? Lay off the beer, Dick.


4. Cheney said he was unaware that Wilson was chosen to travel to Niger to look into the uranium claims

5. and that he never saw a report Wilson had given a CIA analyst upon his return, which stated that the Niger claims were untrue.

6. He said the CIA never told him about Wilson's trip.

7. Cheney told investigators that when Wilson began speaking to reporters on background about his secret mission to Niger to investigate Iraq's alleged attempts to purchase uranium, he asked Libby to contact the CIA to "get more information" about the trip and to find out if it was true, the attorneys added.

8. Furthermore, Cheney told prosecutors that before he learned of Wilson's trip, his office simply sought to rebut statements made by Wilson to reporters and the various newspaper reports that said the Bush administration knowingly relied on flawed intelligence to build a case for war.

9. Cheney told investigators that he first learned about Valerie Plame Wilson and her employment with the CIA from Libby.

10. Cheney testified that Libby told him that several reporters had contacted him in July to say that Plame Wilson had been responsible for arranging her husband's trip to Niger to investigate the Niger uranium claims.


Other than point 3, this is 10 times too many to attribute to beer brain. Lying to federal officials and obstruction of justice should be the main charges against him as illustrated in this article. Also, the Espionage Act for good measure.

Anyone spot any lies I missed?
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. Dickhead appears a sympathetic, sick figure sometimes but he's a huge liar
It's hard to have sympathy for someone who lies this much. Send him to jail for the Iraq-al Quada connection lies and please throw away the key. I don't want to hear from this liar anymore.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. Good Recap
And at first glance, it looks to me like you've nailed them all, at least for this corner of the world. But we know he lies about everything thing else too, like he tried to claim he never said there were WMDs. I wonder when it will become too much? When his brain will melt from just one too many lies or egregious act. The corruption has got to be eating him from the inside out.

Has anyone ever asked him about Halliburton/KBR selling components for WMDs to Iran? Can we help that become the story if he even dares to try and start another war?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #92
115. Thanks RP - I see that Darth can be indicted for multiple charges
some of them being the same as Libby's some of them more serious
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
95. Olbermann is doing in-depth analysis of birdshot at 30 yds. Catch it if
you can.
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WestMichRad Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
96. An attorney general who obstructs justice
Why am I not surprised? Fits right in with other great programs of this misAdministration, like the Clean Skies policy (loosening rules on air emissions) and Healthy Forests (bulldoze 'em).

Next they'll be announcing the Friendship Outreach program for Iran (nuke 'em).

Worst.Administration.Ever.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
100. Pretty simple solution:
Give the prosecutor a security clearance. He can then only use the info that is germain to his case.

It's not rocket science. (If you really want justice done)
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
102. Fitz Probably Has Some Of The Emails Gonzo is Withholding
Cheney's really fucked here, I think.

Fascinating that as this is being released he's also involved in shooting a guy in the face. What an amazing implosion and convergence of events.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. You know, you are probably right.
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:42 PM by Inland
Just a few to know a) that the AG is holding back and b) what the rest might say.

I bet a dollar nobody told fitzgerald that there were emails being withheld until he asked for specific emails, ie, "there was a email of such and such a date that wasn't turned over in your package, why?" "Oh, we secretly decided that you shouldn't know about it's existence."

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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
107. I Tell Ya.
This administration is pathetically disgusting! Good Lord. Like "NOTHING" ever in our lifetime!

W-T-F!??!?! Where and when does it end? Opph. Perish that thought.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
109. How do these shitheads get away with 'testifying' without being sworn in??
I mean, who are they paying off? I don't understand how prosecutors and Congress, for that matter, can let them get away with this.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. it sets them up for obstruction of justice rather than perjury...
...which has an easier standard of proof.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
114. I remember when AGs were for the LAW not the CRIMINALS nm
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