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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:08 PM
Original message
A closer look at Katherine Armstrong's story
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 09:32 PM by rocknation
link
Armstrong said she was watching from a car while Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of the vehicle to shoot at a covey of quail.
Keep in mind that we have only her word for it that Whit was hit from 30 yards away. How would she know that, especially if she was still in the car? How far was the car from the hunting group?

Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and the third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second covey. Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said.
And how was Whit SUPPOSED to signal that he'd rejoined the group from 30 yards away--by yelling, or by firing a shot in the air? By the way, that third hunter is a material witness. Have the other members of the hunting party been questioned?

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."
If Whit was BEHIND Cheney, then he would have had to TURN AROUND COMPLETELY in order to have shot Whit right in the chest. So why didn't Cheney notice that there was something orange in front of him?

..."It broke the skin," she said of the shotgun pellets. "It knocked him silly. But he was fine. He was talking. His eyes were open. It didn't get in his eyes or anything like that..."
From thirty yards away? Then why were the pellets able to penetrate Whit's clothing and skin, as well as get within striking distance of his heart? And if he's doing so well, why hasn't be made a statement to the police? At the very least, it would be in his friend Cheney's best interests. Cops go to hospital emergency rooms and questioning people who are minutes from DYING!!!

"Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been," she said. "The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came."
On call? I thought Dick's and Dubya's ambulances went everywhere that they did. I find it very hard to believe that it was left to idle on another part of the ranch! More important, what is the explanation of the gaps between the 5:30PM time of the shooting, the 8:30PM admittance to the hospital, and the TWENTY TWO HOURS LATER public announcement of what had happened?

..."This is something that happens from time to time. You now, I've been peppered pretty well myself," said Armstrong.
From what I've learned on DU, "peppering" is when the shot rains down on you, not when it penetrates you. Did YOUR peppering result in broken skin, a hospital stay, or organ damage, Katharine?

Sorry, hun, but your story has more gaps in it than Jessica Simpson's wardrobe.

:headbang:
rocknation
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. KICK, KICK, KICK!
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why no hunting dogs...?
Not an expert here - but dont these guys usually let some well trained dog go after the bird?

An organized hunt that sends a 78 year old man 100 feet to retrive a bird...?

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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. My question also.
Most quail hunters I know are also into the use working bird dogs. They go on point flush the bird and if they are truly an excellent dog can retrieve birds not some poor old 78 year old Republican Lawyer. Cheney was carrying a $17,000 shotgun surely they could afford dogs.

Also Cheney shot grounded birds something a real hunter would never do.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. Most of the dogs were shot and the rest are still running.
:evilgrin:
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Another question. They originally said they couldn't have
released the info publicly because they were soley concerned on the well-being of Whit. HOWEVER, Dick Cheney and Katherine Armstrong did not go to the hospital in the Life Flight helicopter. So....what the fuck were they doing all night?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. They went and ate dinner
I read that in an article yesterday. While Whit was being flown to the ER, Cheney and his friends went back to the house and ate fucking dinner.

Can you believe it?

As a co-worker of mine said today, Cheney is just so inherently evil I wouldn't put anything past him.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. What vintage wine do you suppose they drank at dinner?
Maybe a 2004 Chianti Classico. They are excellent with fava beans.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. How about talking about the "eye witness" piece?
Armstrong said she saw Cheney's security detail running toward the scene. "The first thing that crossed my mind was he had a heart problem," she told The Associated Press.

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2...

It seemed she saw the whole thing and, yet, she didn't. Hmmmm. MKJ

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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. good catch! (nt)
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. I just read in our paper that Mr. Whittington suffered a
heart attack as a result of one of the pellets being lodged in his heart. That shocked me, he got more than just "peppered". Seems like it would take alot to get through your chest wall to your heart, but I'm no expert.... :shrug:
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Didn't Armstrong say something about beer
being available? Maybe not in this original statement.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Armstrong did say that there may have been "a beer or two" on the premises
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 09:20 PM by rocknation
though not all the members of the hunting party were actually hunting--I guess it's okay to be drunk as long as you DON'T have a gun. At least, she was quoted as saying as much on MSNBC.com--except that the reference to beer has since disappeared.

:headbang:
rocknation
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Here's a screenshot of the MSNBC story with the beer reference!!!


:headbang:
rocknation
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Darth wears ear protectors while shooting, too. No warning could get thru.


Letting him know about coming up behind him was simply not an option. Besides being ludicrous. "I'm right behind ya, Dick! Ooops, sorry about scaring off all the birds like that." :eyes:
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Maybe not
The better ear protection is designed to shield loud noises. You can talk to someone wearing it and they will hear you, and at the same time shoot off a gun right next to them and it will block the sound of the gun.

I'm sure that Cheney would have stuff like that. It's expensive.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. But how do you "announce" that you've "rejoined" your hunting group
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 09:59 PM by rocknation
when it's ninety feet away?

:crazy:
rocknation
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. By saying "Hey it's me"
the sound would get through
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. You might want to let a certain newspaper columnist know about this
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 10:18 PM by txindy
Because he's not happy with the explanation from Darth's office. Adding: And he's the outdoors writer for the paper and a veteran hunter.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. You can't SAY "Hey it's me" to someone who's 30 yards away
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:15 PM by rocknation
unless you YELL--which would scare the quail, which would defeat the purpose of trying to hunt them!

:headbang:
rocknation
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I'm not sure of that
Here's the thing-you want the birds to move, because that's when they will flush, and you get an opportunity to shoot them. Trying to sneak up on them makes no sense to me.

I admit it's been a while since I've hunted quail, but I don't remember trying to sneak up on them.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. LIAR!
She changed her story;

Heres today's version of what Ms Armstrog saw:
"Armstrong said she saw Cheneys security detail running toward the scene. "The first thing that crossed my mind was he had a heart problem," she told The Associated Press". from that MSNBC link.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11349649
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. totally off topic. is cheney or taxpayer paying for this medical team
that is with him 24 hours. cause i say f* that shit. i cant get into a doctor paying 1000 a month for insurance. he gets a medical team following him around. and this is fiscal responsiblity?
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. first things first, what is her preception of distance. what denotes
a yard to her.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. I Thought The Same Thing
No Way she was a "witness" as Snotty Scotty claimed, she thought Cheney was having a heart attack

how the hell can they call her a witness?????????
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. A THIRD hunter?
I just noticed that. In previous threads on DU tonight, there was another quote by Armstrong regarding the fact that beer had been brought along as part of a pre-hunt picnic lunch but that the "shooters" didn't partake. I always thought the party had only four people: Armstrong, the Swiss Ambassador, Cheney, and Whittington. Was there anyone else? Or did one or both of the women hunt? In that case, I'm not sure what Armstrong might have meant when she mentioned that the beer at lunch would be for the non-hunters.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Who all was There?
All manner of folk.


Further details are emerging about Cheney's hunting trip. Hunting with Cheney and Whittington at the south Texas ranch of former Republican White House adviser and ambassador to Britain Anne Armstrong, was Pamela Pitzer Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, Texas GOP activist, and longtime member of various boards and committees in Texas, including the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, State Preservation Board, Texas Book Fair Committee, and Laura Bush Foundation for America's Libraries Advisory Committee.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. So if Willeford was the supposed "third" hunter
then all the beers in the picnic basket were for the hostess, Armstrong? You've described four people, Armstrong, Willeford, Cheney, and Whittington. Armstrong described the fact there were beers available in the picnic lunch but none of the hunters had them. If the hostess Armstrong was in the car, and if Willeford, Cheney and Whittington were hunting, then the hostess of the event was having all the beers, I guess. Either that, or she lied when she said that the hunters were "dry".
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Armstrong's sister. She was in the car or truck or whatever they drove in.
Probably a Hummer with a jacuzzi in it. It wouldn't surprise me, after all this.
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SillyGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Very good questions, RockNation. One thing that bothers me which you
mentioned is the several hour delay in Whittington arriving at the hospital. I haven't seen an explanation yet about that. Do we know how far away the hospital is from the ranch? I also find it curious that the SS arranged for Cheney to be interviewed by local authorities in the morning rather than that same night.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The smart money says that they thought they could treat Whit themselves
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 09:52 PM by rocknation
and (worst case scenario) keep him on the ranch until he recovered. They took him to the hospital when they realized that they couldn't.

:headbang:
rocknation
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
42. Being admitted and arriving at the hospital are 2 separate things
I think it took them several hours to run tests and stabalize him, everything being done was of course rushed through. No waiting for Whitt. Then they decided to admit him, admitting is usually an administrative procedure, not a medical procedure.

That is the only part of this story that doesn't bother me. What we need to find out is when did he arrive at the hospital.
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SillyGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Ok, that would explain the 3 hour delay. I was under the mistaken
impression it was 3 hours before he arrived at the hospital. Thanks for pointing that out.
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INdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. I guess these idiot republicans expect people
to believe anything they say
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. What about HIPAA?
Haven't you recently had to sign a bunch of forms at your doctor's and dentist's office regarding your right to privacy regarding your health care? It seems there has been a lot of information circulated about Mr. Whittington's treatment and medical status, and I wonder if he signed consent forms to allow it all to be released.
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. KICK KICK KICK!!!!
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Who is Anne Armstrong?
FACTSHEET: Anne L. Armstrong
DETAILS
Chairman, Board of Trustees Executive Committee, CSIS
appointed a regent of Texas A&M University System in 1997 by then governor George W. Bush U.S. ambassador to Great Britain (1976-1977) Chaired the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (1981-1990) Former Halliburton Board of Directors member Currently on General Motors Corporate Advisory Council

ORGANIZATIONS
Center for Strategic and International Studies
Source: CSIS website, 3/04

SOURCES
CSIS website, 3/04
http://www.csis.org

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id...

Anne Armstrong is a CFR member


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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. Slave and toil kick.
:kick:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
33. Additional important and blantant contradictions spotted by Media Matters:
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:09 PM by Nothing Without Hope
http://mediamatters.org/items/200602140016
Tue, Feb 14, 2006 5:55pm EST

Media overlook unanswered questions and inconsistencies in Cheney shooting disclosure


Summary: Media reporting on the delay between when Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot one of his hunting partners and the public disclosure of that information have overlooked unanswered questions and inconsistent accounts of how the incident was revealed to the press.

The two points they concentrate on in this Feb 14 article:
  • Media overlooked Armstrong's conflicting accounts of whether she coordinated with Cheney
  • Media ignored Rove's involvement while reporting that Vice President's Office was solely responsible for delayed disclosure



Check out the THREAD COMPILATION on Fuddgate at the links in my sig line.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
36. I forwarded this to the MSM fwiw. n/t
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
37. Reporters should ask her "did you see this yourself?"
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
39. "it knocked him silly" and "he was fine" do not compute when . . .
you're talking about a 78-year-old human . . .
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kayice Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. That Armstrong woman looks like she been rode hard and
put up wet.... :silly:
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
41. All good questions, rocknation - K&R
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