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TICE: There is ANOTHER Ongoing Top-Secret Surveillance Program!

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:47 PM
Original message
TICE: There is ANOTHER Ongoing Top-Secret Surveillance Program!
Security & Terrorism
Whistleblower says NSA violations bigger
WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 (UPI) -- A former NSA employee said Tuesday there is another ongoing top-secret surveillance program that might have violated millions of Americans' Constitutional rights.

Russell D. Tice told the House Government Reform Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations he has concerns about a "special access" electronic surveillance program that he characterized as far more wide-ranging than the warrentless wiretapping recently exposed by the New York Times but he is forbidden from discussing the program with Congress.

Tice said he believes it violates the Constitution's protection against unlawful search and seizures but has no way of sharing the information without breaking classification laws. He is not even allowed to tell the congressional intelligence committees - members or their staff - because they lack high enough clearance.

Neither could he brief the inspector general of the NSA because that office is not cleared to hear the information, he said.

more at:
http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=2...
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. data mining? internet bots?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. TIA , a.k.a. Global Information Group Ltd. in the Bahamas
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 01:04 PM by EVDebs
Offshored, outsourced, and privatized. Btw, read more at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

these are the reasons why a R controlled Congress refuses to act. Plus, Gimble's an embarrassment as NSA's Inspector General. Such a Republican shill it's frightening.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. How come he has such a high classification as an analyst
but the IG of NSA doesn't? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So who else has this most high of classifications and who is administering the program?
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It's an artifact of how classified information is compartmentalized
Yes, I know it's rediculous. It should not matter to congresspeople on the intelligence committee. They should be cleared for anything by virtue of their post, but alas, the Justice dept has a different opinion. All they really need to do is pass a law that gives themselves clearances and go to town.

-Hoot
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. I wonder why they have not done it already?
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. LOL, Honestly?
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 07:57 PM by hootinholler
I don't think they are quite the brightest bulbs in the knife rack, if you get my drift. Only logical explanation I can think of.

-Hoot
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No.
They haven't passed such a law because the R's don't want the American people to know. If Congress gives itself clearance, some Dems. will know, and they'll tell the people.

Can't have that, now, can we? :sarcasm:

-Laelth
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I could buy that if such legislation had been introduced...
But, no it hasn't. Maybe it's already on the books, then there's no reason. Write the legislation, let the R congress shoot it down, take it public. One, two, three, big R problem.

-Hoot
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Golly! Maybe we shoud tell the Democratic politicians... I bet they just
didn't think of it! :sarcasm:
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Gimble the IG of NSA couldn't account for $2.3 Trillion of DoDs money
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 01:08 PM by EVDebs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The NSA's IG needs to be investigated himself, and he's a CPA to boot !

The Republican cavalcade of corruption and incompetence marches on.

BTW, google up 'CBS News War on Waste' and you'll get the article, but you'll have trouble putting that info onto this website. Hmmm.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Gimble the IG is a stooge for the administration
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Of course there is. That's the beauty of it. Bush will be busted LYING..
again and that will be the last straw for him. Time to impeach after that!
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. NorthCom and the
DIA would be bigger, by far, and more dangerous.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. This why Gonzo gave the non-answer to Feinstein during the
Committee hearing. Remember, she asked about other programs spying on Americans and he said they were only there to discuss the NSA wiretapping.

That's when we knew for sure there were other programs going on.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. 'Tis becoming clear now why Gonazles wouldn't be sworn in..
It appears that Pat Roberts and Arlen knew.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am so glad he came forward, but I really fear
for this man's life. Being visible did not keep Wellstone safe. :grr:

Let's pay close watch to what goes on with this guy. His life may depend on someone being aware. :patriot:

In peace and growing hope,
V
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. That kind of classification game has to stop
I have a lot of regard for Tice, but he or someone else HAS to spill the beans on this. They just have to -- not necessarily to the public/press, but to someone in a position to do something about it.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. That is why Alberto kept saying "this program", "this program", over
and over again.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. classic whistleblowing position. illegal information isn't classified
the government cannot legally classify information that the government is violating the law.

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Unblock, Please explain
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. the government has no legal basis for classifying such information
or more accurately, if they try you for divulging "classified" information that actually is simply protecting criminal activity, you will not be found guilty if the case even goes to trial.

the government is not empowered to commit crimes and cannot use the classification of information to protect criminals even if they happen to hold government jobs.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. keep focused people
DOTS DOTS DOTS (tip)
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. It goes back to a pre-9/11 NSA 'policy shift' away from Al Quaida's money
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 01:28 PM by EVDebs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

the IG and the administration don't want anyone asking these questions about that 'policy shift' nor do they want Greg Palast's source/whistleblower nor Joe Wilson/whistleblower spoiling longstanding plans to invade Iraq and seize oilfields (in the old Nixon days it was Saudi oilfields being seized see movie 3 Days of the Condor and the 2003 disclosure in the papers about Nixon and the oilfield seizures)

Nixon wantd to seize Saudi oil fields in '73
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200...

Thirty years later and in Iraq we see that those oilfields had been seized. But aren't 'holdable'.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. ACLU Petition to "Demand the Truth" here:
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kimpossible Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Video archive on C-SPAN
Russell Tice was testifying yesterday at the House Hearing on National Security Whistleblowers. The video archive is on C-SPAN at this link:

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/ter/ter021406_whistlebl...

Or go to the C-SPAN search page and search for "whistleblowers"

http://www.c-span.org/Search/advancedsearchform.asp
:popcorn:
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Watched it last night
couldn't sleep so turned on C-SPAN - and I was so impressed by all of those whistleblowers - God I felt like crying - And I though Kucinich and Shays did a good job - bipartisanship concern over the NSA's telling Tice that he could not bring up his concern with the National Intelligence House Sub-committee because they weren't cleared. What an absolute joke.

I knew when Bush got in office bad stuff would happen - of course for that reason and many more I voted for Gore - but I didn't think it would be this bad and so many people would still be so blinded by the light.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Did you see the IG Gimble's testimony ?
see my earlier postings on this guy above. NSA had their moneylaundering investigations of Al Qaida spiked prior to 9-11 by BushCo. A 'major policy shift' according to Greg Palast's source.

PRIOR to 9-11, get it ? NSA, get it now ?
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kimpossible Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Replay is on right now on CSPAN-3
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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Its called "Echelon"
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Also why your credit card info, financial/medical data is offshored
to the Bahamas with Global Information Group Ltd, and places like Bangalore ... offshore, out of DOJ jurisdiction, privatized to corporations (who give access).
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. KICK KICK KICK KICK
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Our data is already at risk
""...Alan Paller, director of research at the Bethesda, Md.-based SANS Institute, said the California law is probably necessary because of the kinds of crime that are occurring. A group in Russia and Ukraine has been acquiring customer data, extorting money to prevent its release and then selling it anyway. Paller believes some companies are paying off the extortionists in an attempt to contain the damage. ""

www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/ security/privacy/story/0,10801,76721,00.html

Funny thing, the NSA and other intel agencies want unobstructed access to American citizen's data, so badly that they will allow this offshoring and hacking etc., just to get at it.

They can't seem to follow the law. And that's unconstitutional. Whatever party your in.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R n/t
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. Wow!
That's pretty heavy. Certainly deserves a kick.

:kick:

-Laelth
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. What the F is this about I wonder??? Everyday it's something new.n/t
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. The Bush Regime didn't suicide Tice.
That was another blunder on their part because he has info that cannot
be ignored by Congress. The Bush Regime must be Impeached and members of the NSA must be charged with felony crimes.
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