A question for hunters....

[Demoiselle]

Any quail hunters here tonight? I was befuddled by the Cheney shooting story because I've always thought that sportsmen out for birds
wait until the flushed birds are well up in the air before they fire. (Sporting chance and all that.) Aside from all the other things to
conjure with in the story, the fact that Cheney was firing merely at human chest/head level height tells me that the flushed covey had barely
gotten off the ground. Is that standard practice for shooting quail? Anybody?

[realisticphish]

1. not really a hunter

but if the quail were a long distance away, the gun would be at close to level. Without knowing what the actual situation was, i can't say if he was being unsafe or not :shrug:

[Demoiselle]

5. I hadn't thought about the distance..they said 30 feet..

My question wasn't so much about safety as whether it's sporting or not to fire into a covey
of quail just five feet off the ground. I'm too stupid at math to compute the angle from
30 feet away.

[Dave Reynolds]

2. A past quail hunter here,

it generally takes a couple of seconds to get a good aim at a bird, by which time they are higher than head level (at least in my experience). I also liked to make sure that no one was going to take a load to the face, meaning that tunnel vision on the birds is a dangerous and foolish thing.

[Rick Myers]

3. I'm not a hunter, but...

most birds aren't wearing shock orange clothing. The shooter always has the responsibility for knowing where he is shooting.

[seabeyond]

4. i have talked to hubby for two days. this was a point he made to me

you wait until the bird is in the air. specifically so the shot doesnt get people and it goes high. but he was absolute that you wait until bird is in air. i said, not chest or face level. he smiled and said no, in the sky

[jobycom]

10. Yes, that bothers me, too. It sounds more like the type of accident

where the gun went off by mistake, like Cheney was tracking the birds with the gun when he got over-excited and pulled the trigger. Or else like he was shooting at something else, or goofing off. That isn't the type of accident where you do everything right and someone winds up in the wrong place and gets shot, but that's the way they are selling it.

[T Town Jake]

6. Quail are small (relatively slim target profile), and extremely fast...

...and when hunted without dogs (who actually do the "flushing"), can literally erupt into flight right in front of you. That is part of the challenge, or "sport" if you will, of hunting them.

But all that being true, Cheney still has no plausible excuse for his actions: he showed piss poor hunter safety skills with this incident.

[XOKCowboy]

12. This from the guy that made fun of Kerry duck hunting...

Got big cheers at the NRA convention when he noted that Kerry bought a new camo jacket before he went indicating that he was a play hunter. Perhaps Cheney could have used some of the gun safety training Kerry got when he was in the military?

Big White Hunter. Ya right!

[jobycom]

7. Not a hunter, but I was talking with an avid hunter earlier about this.

One of my bosses is into hunting. He says quail hunting makes him very nervous, and he hates to hunt with people he hasn't hunted with before, because so much is unpredictable. He says that when a dog flushes quail, the quail can fly in any direction, and sometimes fly right around head level for a ways, instead of bolting straight up. He also says the dog will sometimes point them in one place, but when he flushes them, their may be others who fly, too, so often the quail will cross behind the other hunters. If someone is tracking them with a gun, they sometimes track right through the hunters.

Hunters have a tendency to hold their guns pointed down, so that when birds fly, they can track them from the ground then take the shot. My friend says he makes sure everyone he hunts quail with holds their guns high, and lowers them into the quail once they have cleared the people. He says this not only protects the people, but the dogs.

I don't know how Cheney was doing it, but either way he lost track of his buddy and fired anyway. He claims he thought Whittington was further away retrieving a bird, but he should have known better than to fire in the general direction of another hunter, especially in his party. Plus, Whittington was wearing orange. Cheney was not trying hard enough to be aware of where his partner was. His vision may have been blocked by brush, but at best he was careless, and is lucky he didn't kill his friend.

At worst, Cheney was goofing off and the gun went off accidentally. Assuming there's not a lot more to the story than we've heard, like a heated argument. I wouldn't put anything past the disgusting slime.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

8. The Daily Show kept saying "wingless birds" that were...

raised in cages, then released. And the hunting "party" wasn't really on foot, it drove up in, well, whatever rich, white Texans drive to shoot wingless birds. If they are indeed wingless. It's all too bizarre.

[TimeChaser]

9. Cheney was not really hunting

He was shooting special raised birds that were released for him to shoot. :puke:

[Demoiselle]

11. Thank you all...

I appreciate the detailed answers, and although I could never hunt, I respect the ideas of care, skill and
"sporting chances", that motivate responsible hunters. The thought that this "hunt" was
just an organized slaughter of basically fearless "tame" birds is truly disgusting.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

13. I agree with you.

Here's the link for TDS, if you missed it/are a fan. It's worth it just for Ed Helms repeatedly saying "shot in the face by the vice president." Corrdry (sp?) is on too spinning the accident in a "post-9/11 world."

http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16707

[DenaliDemocrat]

14. I run some fine bird dogs

I pay good money for the best pups I can get. I love them dearly, I train them dilligently, I take them to training seminars, fly them to professionals for tune ups, and take them to hunt tests where their worthiness as a hunting companion is scored. They are my friends, and I am never alone in the field or duck blind, my best buddies are with me.

Anyone who would shoot at a bird about five or six feet off the ground over my dog's heads is likely to discover that even though I am now middle aged and getting fatter by the month, I can still throw a pretty mean roundhouse kick to the ribs.

In short...no, that is too damned low to be shooting birds around people and dogs.

[Emit]

15. I think this guy might be able to answer that question

(if he didn't already) on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x410189