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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:31 AM
Original message
A few things I've noticed about the shooting accident

First was the expected minimization of the incident and the downplaying of the wounds of a man who's still in intensive care. Most of these comments are from the ranch owner Katharine Armstrong, daughter of a former Halliburton director and professional Republican Pioneer bootlicker:

(Various source links follow)
Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said.

"The person who is not doing the shooting at that moment in time is just as responsible and, should be, as the person actually shooting," Armstrong said.

"They had no idea he was there," Armstrong said.

"A bird flew up, the vice president followed it through around to his right and shot, and unfortunately, unbeknownst to anybody, Harry was there and he got peppered pretty good with a spray of 28-gauge pellets," Armstrong said in a telephone interview.

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."


"It broke the skin," she said of the shotgun pellets. "It knocked him silly. But he was fine. He was talking. His eyes were open. It didn't get in his eyes or anything like that."

"This is not something you ever want to see happen, but the press has made a lot more of it than it actually is," Ms. Armstrong said. "I've been shot with birdshot myself."

Another thing I noticed was the large number of people apparently within close range of the hunting party including a rather complete medical staff(!):

Armstrong said she was watching from a car while Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of the vehicle to shoot at a covey of quail.

"Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been," she said. "The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came."

She described Cheney as "an excellent, conscientious shot."
(!?)

It's a good thing the Vice President is an excellent shot because it seems someone was bound to be hit with such a crowd of spectators that had to also include a bevy of Secret Service agents.

The true scope of Wittinton's injury is indicated in this Dallas Morning News article:

A friend who has talked to family members said that Mr. Whittington was hit by about 50 birdshot pellets. He underwent surgery Sunday morning to remove some of the pellets, and doctors have told his family that the shot apparently did not damage any major organs.

Now 50 pellets probably amounts to almost half of the shot in a 28 ga birdshot shell. A pretty good pattern at the reported 30 yards.
Reports that he was "sprayed", "grazed" or "pelted" is typical Buxh White House spin.

From the same article there's some dark humor from James Brady:

In a statement by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, James Brady said Sunday: "Now I understand why Dick Cheney keeps asking me to go hunting with him. I had a friend once who accidentally shot pellets into his dog and I thought he was an idiot."

His wife, Sarah Brady, added, "I've thought Cheney was scary for a long time. Now I know I was right to be nervous."



links to the above quotes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/chen...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index....
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washin...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060213/ts_nm/cheney_accide... ;_ylt=AsvIQr8W29J1uGdBGo.VKJ8Gw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2ZGZwam4yBHNlYwNmYw--

Here is the background on the Armstrong family ties to the administration:
http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/ContributorsAndPayback...
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f-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very well said, I'm gonna kick it!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. "...the Vice President is an excellent shot?"...
OK, if we are to believe that, then it was attempted murder.

Which is it?:

A. He's bad shot and reckless hunter
B. He attempted to kill someone
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. all o' the above (n/t)
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
77. EXCELLENT point there!
Flip-floppers!
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
88. Some hunting
...that is close enough to the street that someone can watch from their car

Why even leave the car? Shoot through the sun roof!

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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
95. No kidding. If he's such a good shot, why did he meerly spray him?
Why didn't he either kill him, or, even better, not shoot him at all?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick! 50 pellets at 30 yards!!??
ya right!!
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
84. Could happen.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
85. Could happen.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Well, really?
28 Gauge Gun
30 yds - 3/4 oz. #9 Shot - IC Choke
1280 fps - 57% pellet count 30 in. circle

We don't know what gauge shot they were using, and you have to put a silhouette of a person in there, and then count the shot inside the silhouette.


I still find it hard to believe.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's very important to note that Katharine Armstrong is a Bush Pioneer
Extremely wealthy, the heir of a very large fortune. A former ambassador in the Nixon administration.

They took a whole day to figure out how to spin this for DeadEye Dick. That's apparently the best they could do.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. You hit it right on the reason there was no info for a whole day!
Gotta get all your stories straight ya know!

BTW, I LOVE the name Deadeye Dick!!!!
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
71. A local paper had this on Saturday
For some reason it took a whole day for the wires to put it out. I'm just guessing that they called the White House and got a denial or something and didn't have enough info until Sunday to go with it. Just a guess. But a whole day???
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. They took a whole day to figure out how to spin this...
Them sitting on the story for a whole day disturbs me enormously. Spin, indeed, while they all got on the same page of the script. Something smells. Alcohol?
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
46. Just for accuracy's sake . . .
I believe it's Katherine's mother, Ann Armstrong, who was ambassador to Great Britain, in the Ford administration maybe.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #46
68. You're right, I found this
<snip>

Anne Armstrong, former U.S. ambassador to Great Britain and featured speaker at the George Bush Presidential Museum Issues Forum, was unable to attend due to a family emergency. Her daughter Katharine Armstrong spoke in her place about her mother's place in politics. Katharine Armstrong was appointed as chair of the nine-member Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission in 2001. She is the former vice president of the Dallas Zoological Society and a previous member of the Central Park Conservancy of New York. Anne Armstrong is the chairwoman of the executive committee of the Board of Trustees at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. Armstrong was a former counselor to Presidents Ford and Nixon and held cabinet rank in both administrations.

http://www.thebatt.com/media/paper657/news/2004/09/10/N...
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. wives watchin from the car,stand-by ambulance, on a huntin'trip?!
we don't hunt like that,even in texas. I'd mentioned this on another thread..the first thing the boys do, is leave the womenfolk AT HOME.
Brady comments pretty interesting,huh?
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. was Lynn Cheney in the car watching?
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kayice Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Apparently Dick always has an ambulance standing by because
of his barely beating, black heart.....I assume since taxpayers are paying for secret service they are also paying for this? How many congestive heart failure patients do you know that get this kind of medical stand-by just so they can go hunting?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Cheney travels with a full medical team and ambulance
Paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, as he leads his life of luxury.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
66. Complete bullshit!
45+ million Americans without health care and they have to cough up tax dollars so Deadeye Dick can have a full medical team and ambulance follow him around! He should have to pay for this himself. Certainly he has stolen enough tax dollars to afford this luxury! :argh:
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kayice Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #66
93. I am interested in exactly who is picking up the air flight to the
hospital, ICU charges and various hospital bills. Who pays for Cheney's little accident? We, the taxpayers?

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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. Interesting
The max effective range for a 28 gauge is about 30 yards. It also fires I think 1 oz. of shot, which for #6 shot is about 225 pellets (lead) or 300 pellets (steel). Either way that's an awfully tight spread for 30 yards. I suspect the real range was probably something like 20 yards and the reason why he's in the hospital is that Cheney used steel pellets and with them being more efficient ballistically they buried themselves in deeper in the head/throat area. I suspect the blood loss was fairly significant and that they are watching him as a result. Yeah, he was talking at the beginning, but many patients who go into shock for blood loss are fine at the beginning and get worse later on.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. well, the guy is 78
any amount of birdshot is going to bang him up some, and blood loss is a big deal at that age.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. yep
My issues are:

1) They didn't announce this until a day later.
2) They are obviously lying about the details of this. While I am not accusing Cheney of drinking, I suspect there are some issues of physical/mental competence which they are covering for here. He probably took a shot that he obviously shouldn't have taken. Given his age and his history of arterial and coronary disease, if he were a regular person, I suspect that his children would at this point in time taking away his car keys.

As for the lawyer, I hope he survives.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
61. I certainly hope he survives
and what I think they may have been covering up is the type of hunting going on. We all know that Cheney is in bad health, and that he walks with a cane most of the time. But to get the manly "hunting man" image, we have to think fo him traipsing across field and dell with his trusty bird dog flushing the coveys of quail. Ten bucks say what really happened is that he stood in one place and everyone else was beating the bushes around him to flush the birds for his killing pleasure (or they were planted, domesticated quail) not very manly, more like a game of skeet with living targets.
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #61
89. The victim is a big shot lawyer
A big, shot lawyer. Get it?



I kill myself!
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. I know....You keed...you keed!...
...InsultComicDog! :rofl: :rofl:
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
52. Yes, being in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) does NOT suggest
that he's FINE FINE FINE! :P
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BOHICA06 Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Quail with 6 shot?
71/2s, 8s, even 9s, but 6s are for rabbit & squirrels - especially not 6s in a 28ga. But I could always be wrong .... never know what dem' elites are up to.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Depends on what range you are shooting
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 01:12 AM by Lithos
I've used sixes before at this range in a 20 (which is what I used) to shoot birds of a similar size. The max range of 6's was about 30 yards for me. Less if I went to a smaller shot size. Given that the smaller shot size would spread out faster, this still supports the notion that he shot at around 20-25 yards to get that percentage.

On Edit:

However, I would NOT use anything bigger than a #6 for this.
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. it just don't add up,does it?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. They said they were using bird shot
That's probably #7 steel shot, ya think? I'm not accustomed to calling #6 'bird shot', but I use lead shot, which is different.

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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. As I stated
I used #6 as it gave me a bit stronger punch at 30 yards than #7. However, I was a decent shot and this gave me more options including the ability to hit up to about 30 yards because the birds I was hunting were extremely aerobatic. However, I agree about it being on the heavy side; using smaller shot would make an even stronger case that Cheney shot with the guy being much closer than 30 yards for the reasons given below.

Side note, it's been years though since I've hunted as it's not my thing anymore, but I think lead shot is now illegal here in Texas. I'm assuming of course that he used steel and not one of the exotic shot types (moly, etc.).



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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Lead shot is not yet illegal here in WV
I don't hunt much any more either. I thought it was interesting, Cheney was using a 28 gauge. Don't see too many of those around any more, and it seems a tad light to me. My favorite upland game bird gun is a Browning Sweet Sixteen, made in Belgium, of course. It was my grandfather's. I usually used #6 shot for everything. It's a good all-around load.

You may have noticed, one part of repukes' spin about the incident is to tell it like getting hit with bird shot is like getting zapped with a paintball or something like that. Lots of folks don't know that a shotgun at close range is one of the deadliest weapons you can pick up, regardless of the projectile size. As range increases, though, shot size comes into play.

I found very interesting your theory about this guy being around 20 yards away when Cheney shot him. He got hit with 50 pellets, a very tight pattern at 30 yards or more, with the modified or improved cylinder choke that Cheney was probably using. It would be easy to verify using a similar gun and the same load.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. Lead shot is becoming illegal in most states.
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
91. Let's just hope Cheney wasn't shooting with Halliburton's new DU shot...
...depleted uranium really takes 'em down...if not now, then later, dammnit.

I grew up in Michigan where there are only two seasons: Hunting and Fishing.

I'm not a ballistics expert, but I'll wager that Whittington was hit at darned close range, to catch that many pellets, and chalk this up to very unsafe practice on the part of the one holding the gun.

Looking for a good independent ballistics analysis, right about now.

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BOHICA06 Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. 1-ounce load of 71/2 - 350 pellets
1-ounce load of No. 8 - 410 pellets. You don't hunt quail with anything much bigger. So 50 is 12% of the pattern ..... bet it was closer than 30 yards.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I agree. To catch 50 pellets he'd need to be under 20 yards.
probably under 50 feet
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BOHICA06 Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. I'll give ya' 20 ....
under that, we might be talk'n about a funeral!

Modified choke .... will throw a 67% pattern at 40 yards - that's 67% of the load inside 30" at 40 - so if there were 400 pellets and 50 hit the victim - he was fully in one of the quandrants of the pattern at 40 yards ....... must have been closer. Bad Luck, worse gun handling!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. I figure edge of pattern at 15-20 yds. That brings up the question of ...
... how the f*ck do you NOT see a human being at 20 yards??? I've gotta think they claimed 30 yards because (1) that's inside the limit of the 35-40-yard maximum effective range and (2) they tried to downplay the fact that Cheney didn't monitor his field of fire. Even tracking/leading a bird, it's insane to think any sober shooter wouldn't see something as large as a person!
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. I figured his doctor tended to the wounds on site
I didn't realize we have to pay to have an ambulance on call for his sorry ass though. wonder how many "regular people" with injuries or heart attacks have to wait because he has an ambulance tied up everywhere he goes?
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. Felony assault
with a firearm, here it comes, your last heart attack Cheney!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. Talk about Blaming the Victim!!!!!
"The person who is not doing the shooting at that moment in time is just as responsible and, should be, as the person actually shooting," Armstrong said.
WTF?????

Pitiful....just fucking pitiful.
It is NEVER their fault.

The 100.000 DEAD Iraqis are at fault.
They should not have been in Iraq.
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. Teddy Roosevelt he ain't...

If Teddy had been aiming for the birds' let alone the guy he would have been toast.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. "But he was fine!" - - - in intensive care. nt
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. I guess its a relative term...
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 01:18 AM by Endangered Specie
In intensive care fine is: "not dead or dying"

much like a "good" landing is one where everyone walks away, and a great one is where they can use the plane again.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. Wasn't any damn bird that "flew up."
Whittington moved, Cheney swirled around and blasted. Simple as that. Trigger-happy Dick.

They waited to release the news of this accident not only to be sure Whittington would survive, but to fabricate a story that would be easy enough for everyone to remember.

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
70. Exactly!
"They waited to release the news of this accident not only to be sure Whittington would survive, but to fabricate a story that would be easy enough for everyone to remember."
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
21. It was interesting the Armstrong woman watched from the car
Is this now how the elitists "hunt"

I guess if you are a bushbot elitist, that's how hunting is done. These people do not like to rough it. As Cheney said when called to Vietnam duty, "he had other priorities."
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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
60. Don't know nothing 'bout huntin'
but if the Armstrong woman was in the car, how could she have known whether Whittington said anything to let Cheney know he was there? Maybe Whittington didn't wave his arms and jump up and down, but he might have said something which Cheney did not hear. How is Cheney's hearing, anyway? Most people his age have a little hearing loss. If Whittington had said quietly, "I'm behind you," Armstrong wouldn't have heard it -- how far away was the car and did she have the windows up?

It's also interesting that the Armstrong woman is the one who informed the press.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. As another thread sez...most likey drunk as a skunk
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. Fine, but life-flighted. Stable but in ICU. "Peppered" = Shot in Face
Ranch owner, ""This is something that happens from time to time. You know, I've been peppered pretty well myself,"

Gee...Do ya think they waited 24 hours to see if the guy would live?

I think they waited 24 hours to get a focus group together to come up with "peppered" rather than "shot in the fuckin' face"
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BOHICA06 Donating Member (886 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Yeah .... peppered goes with rock salt and
the pellets raining down in a dove hunt (they always do). In the face is just plumb shot!
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. I guess "busted a cap in his ass" only appeals
to a small section of younger voters :shrug: :evilgrin:
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Cue the photoshop of Cheney holding a 9mm sideways, shooting,
a la "Menace II Society", LOL.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. I suppose he is going to make a rap album...
to be released posthumously?
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. That reminded me of "Break Yo Self" from Don't be a menace to
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 01:32 AM by goodboy
south central while drinking your juice in the hood
<Image>
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
72. Hmmm, will the wingers note the time delay the way they always do
when bringing up Chappaquiddick? Or will it be a case of delay by a Democrat = something sinister, delay by a Republican = perfectly reasonable and justified? Shall we lay bets? How long before we will be excoriated for speculating about the time delay, though Republicans have been doing this about Ted Kennedy for decades?
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Eric_323 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. Here is the law on deadly conduct
22.05. DEADLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an
offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in
imminent danger of serious bodily injury.
(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a
firearm at or in the direction of:
(1) one or more individuals; or
(2) a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless<0>
as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.
(c) Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor
knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another
whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.
(d) For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation,"
and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section
30.01.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class A
misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (b) is a felony of the
third degree.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm


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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. All I know is that
when I was kid in rural Kansas, two friends asked me to go hunting... I didn't go because I didn't care that much about hunting and my dad didn't want 3 15yr olds running around with guns and no adults.

Anyway, apparently the two were walking single file and the one in the rear tripped and his gun went off (16 Gage shotgun)... he hadn't set the safety on and had it "locked and loaded", killed my best friend instantly.

Even then (and this was many years ago), my other friend ended up in reform school until he was 18 for Deadly Conduct and reckless endangerment.

I totally quit any hunting after that of course.

These days, such and accident would likely result in changes of manslaughter and being tried as an adult and probably a 15 year sentence in a regular state prison.

I bet Darth Cheney escapes with no charges or investigation.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
78. Welcome to DU, under the law it looks like he's committed a Class A
misemeanor. It would probably be difficult to prove though. You know extraordinary measures were taken to cover it up and get the stories straight in the full day they waited to report this.
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oldcoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
41. How do you sneak up on the Vice President?
Last I checked, the Vice President of the United States is usually surrounded by Secret Service agents. Where was Cheney's Secret Service agents?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. I thought most of time Dick-less was at an undisclosed location...
and your absolutely right: How is is that a man who is probably surrounded by more Secret Service Agents than anyone NOT KNOW that this man was within a mile perimeter? :shrug:
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
79. How do you sneak up on him with a gun?
The longer this sits on the table the worse it smells.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
42. You're so right. They were anxious to get in that reassurance that it
wasn't serious and that it was all the victim's fault. Very clear in the NYT article on this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/13/politics/13cheney.htm...

Has all the elements you pointed out. Also makes it sound like it happens all the time:


"This all happened pretty quickly," Ms. Armstrong said in a telephone interview from her ranch. Mr. Whittington, she said, "did not announce which would be protocol 'Hey, it's me, I'm coming up,' " she said.

"He didn't do what he was supposed to do," she added, referring to Mr. Whittington. "So when a bird flushed and the vice president swung in to shoot it, Harry was where the bird was."

Mr. Whittington was "sprayed peppered, is what we call it on his right side, on part of his face, neck, shoulder and rib cage," she said, noting that she, too, had been sprayed on her leg in a hunting accident.

"A shotgun sprays a bunch of little bitty pellets; it's not a bullet involved," Ms. Armstrong said. She said she believed that Mr. Cheney was shooting a 28-gauge shotgun and added that guests typically bring their own firearms.


She's quoted again later as saying Mr. Armstrong "is fine. He's sitting up in bed, yakking and cracking jokes." This is after she is quoted as saying "A shotgun sprays a bunch of little bitty pellets; it's not a bullet involved."

Why, it sounds like fun! No worse than a day at the spa, getting those unsightly dead skin layers sanded off, or whatever they do.

The man is 78 years old, too, so his healing ability isn't going to be as robust as it would be for a younger person.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Since this guy is doing so great, smoking and joking in the ICU, I'm sure
we'll be seeing him interviewed on TV to verify this account of events any minute now!
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Yes, good point. You can get they'll get a quote from ASAP and if
he heals enough to be presentable in a photo-op, they'll get that ready too. Of course, they'll hope that this just disappears as a silly l'i'l accident that was all the victim's fault, but they'll want to be prepared with counterspin.

Chilling how quickly even the biggest papers toed the line on the spin. The NYT should get some letters on this - it's shameful.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
55. Since when is smoking allowed in ICU?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
45. If Cheney has one ounce of shame, he'd be red with embarrassment.
This is the worst thing you can do as a hunter, next to making this mistake and killing someone.

As a young child, my uncle would take me hunting. He'd been hit with buck shot in a similar incident. One Sunday, we were in a shed or something and we saw another hunter.

My uncle said: "Michael, this is Dr. Smith. He's the man who shot me two weeks ago."

God. I still remember the total humiliation of that moment. Hey the guy was lucky. My uncle was a fine man but a real hot head. Dr. Smith could have been shot ;)

What a fool Cheney is.

Didn't his last hunting trip involve shooting ducks in a barrel?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. "if"
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
82. The essential word..."If"...Of course he doesn't. Remember Jos. Welch
in the Army-McCarthy hearings: "At long last sir, have you lost all sense of common decency."

Apparently not. Shoots ducks in a barrel, shots his friends, what's nest?
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
48. "did not signal them".
I'm sure Cheney will expect a full apology for the inconvenience as soon as Whittington recovers.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
51. Thank GOD they didn't draft Cheney during the Vietnam war. I sure
as hell wouldn't want the bastard covering my ass!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
53. Heh-Sue Christo! Daughter of a former Haliiburton director and
they shot the lawyer. Connect the buckshot.
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Wheezy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
54. A question...
"This all happened pretty quickly," Ms. Armstrong said in a telephone interview from her ranch. Mr. Whittington, she said, "did not announce which would be protocol 'Hey, it's me, I'm coming up,' " she said.

"He didn't do what he was supposed to do," she added, referring to Mr. Whittington. "So when a bird flushed and the vice president swung in to shoot it, Harry was where the bird was."



I haven't been hunting since I was about 12. But it seems weird that a bird that flushes would fly toward people...seems to me they fly AWAY from them. Must have been pretty low to the ground too in order for Cheney to hit Whittington in the ribs and face...which seems like it would be fairly early in its takeoff. Which makes it even more likely that Whittington would have been the one to scare it, which also makes it seem like the bird would fly away from Whittington. This story is fishy.

Of course, like I said, I haven't been hunting in a long time. Any hunters think this seems odd?
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
57. Sure it's being played down...
.. on the news today I'm hearing "peppered", not SHOT.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. Now we know why they kept it quiet until Sunday afternoon.
The guy was transferred to a bigger hospital by Lifesaver helicopter and was in surgery Sunday morning.

They didn't want that coming out during the Sunday morning talk shows. No surgery is a cakewalk for a 78 year old. They were waiting to make sure he didn't die. Also, they avoided releasing the news until they could claim, "Oh, he's fine, alert, and the Oh-So-compassionate vice-president is visiting with him."
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
59. He got hit at 30 FEET, not 30 yards
according to the NYTimes

I'm not a gun guy but this makes more sense to me.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Considering that the victim was reported to have snaged HALF the pellets
into his hide, methinks it was more like 20 feet. Anyone hear of *scatter*.

How stupid do they think we are? No don't answer that!

I HATE the Media for being their dutiful Whores.

What ever happened to Investigative Reporting?
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. "tracking to the right..." Don't quail usually fly UP?
If he shot at a bird that was less than 6 feet above the ground, by the time he shouldered and aimed after flushing, well, that seems pretty quick reflexes for a man Cheney's age.

Oh, I forgot - he's not a man he's a Cyborg.
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drbtg1 Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
62. When you're hunting, aren't you supposed to be quiet?
All this spin about how he "didn't announce himself" completely contradicts conventional wisdom about hunting and how people are supposed to be quiet while hunting in order not to scare away what you're hunting.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. Yeah, but what really blew me away was the statement ...
"Mr. Whittington does not have any comment out of respect for his friend Dick Cheney."

TRANSLATION

"Mr. Whittington is so doped up in ICU he couldn't make a lucid statement even if he wanted to."

One doesn't do much while staying in their local hospital's ICU, well, save for fighting to STAY ALIVE! :puke:
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drbtg1 Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
74. The AP Radio News report had interesting spin as well
They claimed Cheney was glad to see that Whittington was "in good spirits". In good spirits? He was just SHOT and he's in good spirits?!?

Reminded me of the James Bond movie "License to Kill" (the last Timothy Dalton one) where Felix gets sent to the hospital and his wife was killed, but by the end of the movie, Felix is just so happy when talking to James.

Didn't make sense in the movies, didn't make sense in real life either.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #62
73. This was my first thought, too.
Perhaps the quail were in a pen and couldn't be scattered. Then I could see the hunters announcing themselves. Otherwise, this gloss-over denies Hunting 101: "Be vewry, vewry qwiet... I'm hunting wrabbit!" Geesh, I've never even hunted, but I learned that as a kid on Saturday morning!
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drbtg1 Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. I learned it going deer hunting with my family as a kid
Spent many hours in a tree stand with my dad not saying a word. Man, it was freezing out there. I enjoyed the time with my dad, but not being able to do or say anything while freezing in the middle of the woods wasn't fun.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
67. And this morning on CNN, someone from the hospital said
that "this kind of injury" is quite common "here, in south Texas" (or southeast, not certain)

And on CNN it came after they ran out of stories about the snow
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RedOnce Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
69. Shotguns are held shoulder high. The victim was hit neck/head high.
Which means that the gun was aimed at a level elevation plus or minus the shot pattern. I'm not a hunter, is this the elevation that birds are typically taken?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
76. It's just god's way of showing Cheney the horror of war.
Even this, they have to spin. No, Cheney moved the line of fire right onto his victim. Period.

But this is as close as he's ever going to get to actually seeing what hell he has wraught unto the world.
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BringEmOn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
80. How does a Republican get knocked silly?
Maybe, it knocked him sane?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
81. Had he died, we'd NEVER have heard of it. Period.
24 hours = witnesses being "de-briefed".
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
83. In other words, it wasn't Cheney's fault!
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 12:23 PM by Jade Fox
A super-manly man like Duck Cheney couldn't possibly make the kind of mistake a bitter, mean old bastard in poor health and facing possible indictment might make. :eyes:

I wonder if Whittington will still be a Republican when he gets out of intensive care.

Good for the Bradys for refusing to be "nice" in their response to this incident.
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #83
92. I'd wager that Whittington,or his family, will be ever BIGGER Republicans.
They'll be expecting Hallibuton/Cheney Cabal payoffs over at least two generations for keeping "their litigious powder dry."
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occuserpens Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
86. Anybody knows what would happen to an ordinary hunter
in this situation?
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chapel hill dem Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #86
94. Sam Snead shot my next door neighbor just like this. Sam was in
Greensboro to promote the Greater Greensboro Open (golf) when he went dove hinting with my next door neighbor and a group of GGO volunteers. They were crossing a cornfield in a line when a pair of dove flew over. Sam got excited and swung his gun around to follow the birds when he blasted my neighbor in the side. Luckily, the hunters were far enough apart to be out of the "killing range", and my neighbor was wearing a leather coat, canvas pants, a hat and safety glasses or he would have been really hurt. As it was, he picked out the pellets from his neck and then ran over to beat the hell out of Sam. Other hunters intercepted him but he was too angry to remain with the party and left. He said he picked pellets out of his jacket all afternoon. Nothing ever hit the local papers or other news outlets.

BTW, here is a chart that was sent to me by a hunting friend.

http://www.hunter-ed.com/id/course/ch2_shotgun_ammo.htm
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occuserpens Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. That guy was not hurt, it is completely different
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