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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:50 PM
Original message
Texas shooting: was Cheney drunk?
Speaking as someone who is and has been a firearms owner and shooter nearly all my life (former hunter, former competitive shooter, present-day recreational target shooter and maximum-accuracy handloader), let me make it emphatically clear there is absolutely no excuse -- NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER -- for what Cheney did.

Confirming one's target (which includes making certain no one is inadvertently down range) is one of the foremost rules of shooting and hunting: the very reason that in most states, accidentally shooting another human is not only felony criminal negligence (at the very least), but grounds for automatic lifetime revocation of hunting privileges.

Thus my question -- and under the circumstances it is the ONLY question -- is whether Cheney had been drinking and indeed how much alcohol he had consumed, that his reflexes were so slowed (and his vision so blurred) he swung on a flying bird and shot a companion instead.

Which is, in fact, the only plausible explanation of what happened -- particularly since combining hunting and boozing are big time American pastimes (especially among the aristocracy), this in arrogant defiance of another prime rule of firearms safety: that gunpowder and alcohol don't mix.

Indeed, as hunting has increasingly become a sport only for the very rich -- a trend especially evident in my home state of Washington -- so has the presence of drunken hunters afield seemed to increase dramatically: an impression corroborated (though I have no statistical confirmation) by virtually every rural dweller I know.

In my younger years, such drunkenness was so rare as to be nearly unthinkable, and its alarming increase is one of several reasons most of my friends and I stopped hunting nearly a decade ago.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wonder myself; I would guess he had been drinking (n/t).
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't be surprised
Edited on Sun Feb-12-06 10:55 PM by InsultComicDog


Today the AP reported: WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and wounded a companion during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, spraying the fellow hunter in the face and chest with shotgun pellets.

Vice President Cheney explained the shooting this way: I was tracking a covey of quail with my gun barrel. Suddenly Whittington just popped up from the grass, directly in the way, so I shot him. I know my critics on the left will point out that Whittington is not a bird, but he was between the quail and my gun. My feeling is that when you harbor a quail, its the same as being one.

A medical team quickly tended to the wounded man, much to Cheneys disappointment, as the Vice President had already told friends he planned to mount Whittington's head over the toilet in his upstairs powder room.

A spokesman for the Whitehouse pointed out that Whittington was a known quail sympathizer. Our intelligence told us he had WMD in his Elmer Fudd hat. A lot of people were fooled, not just us.

(Scott Adams http://dilbertblog.typepad.com / )

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Whittington was harboring a Quailofascist!
He had the right to pre-emptively defend himself.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Love this satire. But the spin in the media is amazingly blatant on this:
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 03:18 AM by Nothing Without Hope
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
thread title (2-13-06 GD): A few things I've noticed about the shooting accident
Comment/excerpt: First was the expected minimization of the incident and the downplaying of the wounds of a man who's still in intensive care. Most of these comments are from the ranch owner Katharine Armstrong, daughter of a former Halliburton director and professional Republican Pioneer bootlicker. The true scope of Wittinton's injury is indicated in this Dallas Morning News article:
A friend who has talked to family members said that Mr. Whittington was hit by about 50 birdshot pellets. He underwent surgery Sunday morning to remove some of the pellets, and doctors have told his family that the shot apparently did not damage any major organs.

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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know if he was drunk, but he's certainly dead, and has been for...
...a very long time.

:rofl:

I agree with you completely. No excuse for what Cheney did.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, he is certainly drunk on blood...
but your theory also makes a great deal of sense
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. They hushed it up till Crashcart sobered up....
What a fucking dick!
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. now that is certainly a good explanation of why a 24 hr delay in reporting
those fecker!!!
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. Plus the three hour delay
getting the guy to the hospital. If the dude was in bad enough shape that they put him in Intensive Care, why did they wait so long to bring him to the hospital?


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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm curious
if they gave him a breath test.


They should have.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. Who would have given it?
Police are investigating why they were never notified of the shooting.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Well that is a BIG probem
I would think Cheney should be in BIG trouble
if he shot a man and never reported it to the police.

It's not like he can just ignore the law <sarcasm>
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can't imagine firing without scanning the field of fire.
... and that's with a tour of duty in Nam under my belt, too. He had to be both drunk AND a madman.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. #8 bird shot on a dime
Edited on Mon Feb-13-06 01:36 AM by BrightKnight
This is a picture of #8 shot on a dime. For quail hunting they were probably using smaller #9 shot.



----------
You have to be close to seriously wound someone with bird shot. The pattern spreads and dissipates energy quickly.

Also, quail hunting is done with a modified or improved cylinder barrel with a light powder load. Nobody ever hunts quail with a full choke and magnum shell.


I have been bird hunting and skeet shooting in Texas for 25 years. I usually shoot with a group of people. I find it impossible to believe that a sober person could accidentally shoot someone in the head.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. The guy was hit with 50 birdshot pellets. Cheney aimed right at him
or else there wouldn't have been so many. I saw this estimated to be half the full load of the shot. This was not a peripheral grazing sort of thing. The way I imagine it, Cheney was in a killing frenzy (he was in the process of shooting 70 tame birds) and just let loose when he saw movement out of the corner of his eye.

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occuserpens Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree
Shooting is exactly like car accident, it is all driver's responsibility! So, this GU article is completely inappopriate. In fact, it ends any meaningful discussion of "democracy". Only nobles in a monarchy can do things like this.

Dan Glaister. Cheney shoots lawyer in hunt accident
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. They got magic laws on that Armstrong ranch
"The person who is not doing the shooting at that moment in time is just as responsible and, should be, as the person actually shooting," Armstrong said.
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f-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. I was wondering too, if he was drinking...
regardless of that, anybosy else in that position would have been arrested and charged at the very east with reckless endangerment. This asshole walks free?

What part of Washington are you from? I'm Tacoma.
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Pure speculation...
and I'm not sure that speculation will help right now. On the flip side I doubt we'll ever hear a truly factual version of what happened due to where the incident occurred and who was involved.

That being said, I've lived among quail hunters all of my life and never, NOT ONCE has any of them EVER shot one of their hunting party. Alcohol consumption or not. I'm sorry but all I can do is chuckle when I think about it. A bunch of fat, old, out of shape, pasty white guys on a controlled hunt and the oldest, pastiest white guy shoots another. Damn I wish there was some video footage.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. We need a new TV show. Jackass: Rich & Famous Division
:D
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. You might have a point.
A person with the heart condition Cheney has would be forbidden alcohol by Dr.'s orders. Now I'm sure at home with Lynn, all the staff have orders not to give him alcohol and she will probably nag him not to drink if he tries. Now I know many guys go fishing or hunting to get away from the old lady. Then they can eat and drink what they want when no one is looking.

My son-in-law is on a restrictive diet for his cholesterol. He spends time with his buddies watching sports and going to car shows when he can. He confessed to me that he does it so he can eat what he likes then.

So you may have a point. But what about all the medics that follow him around when he's on these trips? Wouldn't they try to keep him from drinking too, or are they too afraid to say anything?
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Re: heart patients forbidden alcohol: not necessarily.
Many cardiologists allow alcohol in moderation, and there is some evidence a small glass of red wine per day is actually beneficial to cardiac health.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. True, but if he was too drunk to shoot responsibly, that
would be beyond a small glass of red wine per day, don't you think?
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. What heart medication is Cheney on?
My father was on medication for high blood pressure and his doctor said he could go ahead and continue drinking on a daily basis. My cousin is also on heart medication and he hasn't been told to stop all consumption of alcohol. I'm not a doctor but might it not depend on the particular medication involved?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. I'm surprised you father's doctor told him to drink as usual.
Most doctors tell you not to drink more than one or two alcoholic beverage a day, no matter what your health situation is. I'm sure he's allowed one or maybe even two drinks a day, however, that amount doesn't make most people drunk especially men who have more body mass.

There is the problem with the medication that you mentioned. A lot of drugs used for pain management don't mix with alcohol very well. They usually state on the label not to drink alcohol or operate heavy machinery. This certainly would apply to guns as well.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
42. They wouldn't recommend that for someone whose had a history
of drinking problems and someone with 5 DUI'S under his belt has a history of drinking problems.

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. I forgot about the five DUI's.
That certainly makes him a candidate for AA.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Police procedures: would they check the shooter for alcohol, under
normal circumstances?

Was the basic law followed here? Why not?

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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Are you going to be the Texas deputy sheriff that asks Cheney...
to blow into your breathalyzer? On a ranch owned by one of the richest Republicans in the world? If you even got the chance? I doubt it.

Laws are for the little people.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's exactly what I want on the public record.
"For the Vice-President, we did not follow the usual legal procedures involving an accidental shooting."


:thumbsup:
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It probably varies from state to state, but in every jurisdiction...
I've hunted (seven states), such a shooter would at least be asked, "have you been drinking," and in any case where there was probable cause, a Breathalyzer or drunkometer test would surely follow. But it can take a long time to get a Breathalyzer into the woods; one of the problems in Washington state is that game wardens don't typically carry them and therefore have a real problem prosecuting the drunks.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. And certainly the Sheriff became involved, right?
What I'm getting at is that legal procedure must be circumvented (at the insistence of the VPs staff), and that this itself raises the question of whether Cheney is yet again "above the law".

Nice OP, and thanks.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's too bad Cheney didn't use the gun on himself...
Edited on Sun Feb-12-06 11:01 PM by zulchzulu
Do the World a favor, Dick.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Ya think Cheney woulda/coulda/shoulda asked Ted Kennedy about delays
in reporting to proper authorities.

Brazenly LOLO
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. as a friend pointed out, THIS is the man with the second finger on the
nuclear trigger.
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Drunken madman w/ 5 deferments murdering 70 TAME BIRDS!! IMMORAL!!
His victim - Whittington-is still in Intensive Care!! Reportedly the accident occurred @ 5:30 pm & was not declared until 8:30 pm!
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not drunk, but I'm sure he's overmedicated.
Some of those heart drugs really can mess with you.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick! Good point.
The frat boy returns to his native habitat.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-12-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. Well, he has 3 or 4 DUI's, but I think it's his impaired health
I really don't think he is healthy enough to remain in office. His condition is affecting his thought processes.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
31. A few little drinkies to warm up on a very cold day
You don't put someone in critical condition with very fine quail shot from an improved cylinder barrel unless you are very close. There was some form of criminal negligence involved.
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Palladin Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
34. You are right on the mark my friend
Take it from a good Wyomin' boy.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I wouldn't characterize Cheney by any means as an aristocrat though...he's got the morals of a junkyard dog....
and he's from my HOMETOWN....No folks, Casper isn't really like that
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. An aristocrat can be anyone who believes in aristocracy
as a form of government.

That seems to include Cheney.
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quispquake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
39. Drunks with Guns
What a totally fucked up story to wake up to on Monday morning! Methinks it's gonna be an interesting week :) I instantly had to put on my CD by "Drunks With Guns"...

I know there's a coupla fans of the band "Drunks With Guns" here on DU...in case you haven't heard them, here's their theme song:

<http://www.perkypat.com/audio/dwg.mp3 >
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
40. my husband is the same as you, and that is what he said, drinking..
first thing out of his mouth was he wasnted to know if cheney was drinking. also he wonders if they were wearing orange. big no reason for error if the man was wearing orange
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
43. I'm guessing he probably was.
That was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the shooting and it's usually the cause of most hunting accidents.
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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
44. He had to be. nt
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
45. Drunk? Yes, with power if not alcohol
Cheney thinks he can do whatever he wants to do. He's above the law. Screw the little people, they are held to a different standard than the VP.
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Dees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
46. I'm going to say he was drunk. It's the time line that
bothers me. 24 hours? Time to sober up and for blood alcohol to look a little better. After all it was late in the afternoon and what Repug doesn't have a few high balls and cocktails before dinner. The Armstrong woman was apparently playing chauffeur for the (hunters). I'll bet the vehicle was a traveling pub.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
47. Yes quite likely, he has a history of alcohol abuse.
He and shrub may never be sober, who knows.
Would explain a lot.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
48. Six lives destroyed with one shot. Trigger Happy Dickey must be stopped!
I so totally agree with your assassment. I grew up on a ranch in Texas and learned real gun saftey, but other people did mot. A cousin of mine was killed by a high powered rifle. His eight year old son saw his dad's head get hit. The kid and his sister were never the same. The boy died later of an overdose. The mother spent years in a mental institution. The man's father died within a year of grief. The man's mother died a year after that. Their only son had been shot by someone who was never found. Trigger happy idiots who do not know what they are shooting at before they pull the trigger are certainly not the men that they pretend to be. Now Cheney wants to pull the trigger on a third country and "damn the consequences". Real big man, huh!
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Palladin Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Thanks Mom cat
I am so ashamed he's from Wyomin'.
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Keseys Ghost Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-13-06 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
49. My first thought
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