Why won't the Democrats say they REGRET THEIR VOTE ON THE WAR.

[spanone]

I don't get this one goddam bit. On MTP Russert asked both Jane Harmon and Tom Daschle if they regretted their votes on give Bush* the right to go to war. THEY BOTH DANCED AROUND THEIR ANSWERS. This is utter BULLSHIT. Americans are against this war. Why isn't the DEMOCRATIC PARTY?? Has Bush* already wiretapped these people??

[MelissaB]

1. I'm hoping for somebody to explain this to me, too.

I'm guessing the reason is because they will be perceived "weak".

[spanone]

3. That is EXACTLY why they appear weak. RIP THEIR THROATS OUT.

DAMMIT.

[MelissaB]

23. JOHN EDWARDS SAID IT! Come on all you chickens!

[GreenArrow]

37. he waited until the wind was blowing the right way

Pure expediency.

[MichiganVote]

2. Flip-Flop accusations and reduction in their voting base

[jab105]

4. But most of the coutry has flip flopped on this issue...

given what has happened...the fact that they STILL don't stand up for what is right blows my mind...

They run from the terrorism/Iraq issue, even though it should be the DEMOCRATS strongest issue, given the utter failure of Bush on this issue!

[spanone]

7. On MTP ALL the dems thought the Wiretaps were needed to defend U.S.

I don't get this shit either. THEY BROKE THE LAW TO WIRETAP AMERICANS...PERIOD. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THE BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW. THEY BROKE THE LAW.

THEY BROKE A LAW THAT STANDS ON THE BOOKS RIGHT NOW....THAT IS BREAKING THE LAW.

[MichiganVote]

34. Most of the country doesn't rely on votes or money for votes to

stay in office with a good salary, a boatload of perks, great benefits, full pension, the opportunity to have power and the resultant career opportunities in the lobby or corporate sector following office. This Congress would sell their own mothers to maintain their offices. Sure there are few reputable members but that's like saying there are few less crazy people in the nuthouse.

This gov't is completely divorced from the needs and wants of citizens.

[ourbluenation]

5. becasue they will appear flippity floppity - what they need to say is...

My vote was based on false information - had the administration been truthful I would NEVER have voted for this shit!

[spanone]

10. Flip flop is bull when MOST Americans OPPOSE THE WAR.

I believe it is called speaking for your constituents.

[ourbluenation]

33. yes but the constituents are not a problem by and large...

it's the cross over voters and independants.

[leeroysphitz]

6. They can't admit that easily because, 15 years ago Poppy

Bush equated Saddam with Hitler and despite the fact that this conflation of bad guys was bullshit theatrics meant to prime the sheeple for war enough voters out there still hear the name Saddam and see an image of Hitler.

NO politician wants to give their political opponents ammunition by stating public ally that they "regret" getting rid of Hitler...

It's bull, but that's how Poppy set it up and we're stuck with it.

I thought the release of the DSM would have been the perfect time to turn all that around and admit regret without taking any political damage but I guess the dems did not agree...

[dogday]

8. Same reason they signed the Patriot Act

they were afraid they would be labeled unpatriotic-or UnAmerican......

[LSK]

9. because it was a vote to get Inspectors back in Iraq, not a vote on war

READ the IWR please. There are clear stipulations restricting Bush from going to war in it. Bush blatantly ignored those restrictions and the Congress did NOTHING in response to what he did. Bush VIOLATED the IWR.

[CTLawGuy]

21. no, YOU read it

there is essentially NO restriction in the IWR on the president's ability to go to war whenever he wanted. The only thing that comes close is a presidential "determination" that diplomatic efforts had failed, which is not vetoable, and does not have to backed up by a factual basis.

I know some dems cannot accept this level of betrayal from our leaders, so they try to rationalize it. But your post is only a rationalization.

[karynnj]

46. I think for the Democrats who voted for it there may have been

as many reasons as voters.

Kerry seems to have seen that if it failed, Bush would still have gone to war - using his power as CIC. Kerry worked to add constraints on the IWR, to try to push Bush to the UN and to continue diplomatic efforts. I don't doubt Kerry's sincerity and even in his floor speech (which could with little change have been used for a no vote) he worried that Bush wouldn't comply.

Kennedy voted against it, but did not think it would stop Bush.
The difference between the two is that both thought invading Iraq was a bad idea (and Kerry said so before the war) and they differed on how best to avoid it. The likelihood (especially after seeing the DSM is there was no way to avoid it.

That said Kerry has repeatedly said that he would not vote that way now and that he accepts his share of responsibility. But he said he (and others) were quilty of trusting the President.

John Edwards, who was for the war even 9 months after it started, has said that he nows thinks he was wrong.

Others have said so as well - so I really don't get people who are still harping on this.

[KittyWampus]

11. Because it was a vote to use force as a LAST RESORT & only when necessary

which is what any Democratic, Green, Independent POTUS would also want.

Why don't you start focusing your attention on asking why don't the GOP and Bush admit they used force as their first CHOICE.

[CTLawGuy]

22. two points

1. there is no language resembling "last resort" in the IWR. It ony requires a declaratory and conclusory "determination," which Bush could have just given whenever he wanted.

2. The Congress has the Constitutional duty to decide when the US goes to war. They are NOT supposed to delegate that to the President or anyone else.

[emulatorloo]

12. Many have renounced their vote, some haven't

Those that havent are probably concerned that someday there will be

A democratic President.

With a real threat to our national security

And a bunch of republicans screaming

"We will not vote for this! Democrats claim voting for this kind of thing is a mistake"

[0007]

13. Yea, each should take out a full page advertisement and publish the fact

that they REGRET voting for the invasion of Iraq on information that was found to be baseless.

[leftchick]

14. DLC

Harmon is DLC and that is Repuke light. Daschle is just a fucking coward.

[Perky]

15. It actually is pretty simple

The whole House is up for re-eclection and people who support the war are the one that will certainly vote.

Saying you were wrong to vote for the war is to invite GOP criticism and it does not get more Dems to the polls.

[MrPrax]

16. Because...

They are/were in favor of it. No sophisticated analysis or strategy required to understand it.

...Occam's Razor strikes again.

[G_j]

17. we will never stem the anti-American attitudes around the world

without people who represent a REAL QUANTUM CHANGE.
Give us somebody who rejects empire and militarism and embraces humanitarian causes and peace above all else.

[spanone]

18. Well said. The word 'peace' rings pretty hollow these days.

I watched Peter Gabriel sing 'Imagine' by John Lennon at the opening of the Olympics and wondered if anyone was listening. Certainly no-one in the bush* administration. Peace does not appear to be a goal for anyone.

[G_j]

20. a "Department of Peace"

would be a great start (one reason I like Dennis Kucinich).
Many people poo-poo the idea, I don't understand why.
George Washington even wanted it. Many American Indian tribes had peace chiefs as well as war chiefs. It only makes sense.

[mmonk]

19. Some don't.

Some belong to the whatever it takes and whatever they think polls say or if they will be attacked in the media club. America and right or wrong don't factor into it, just poltics.

[Cocoa]

24. John Edwards, "I was wrong"

even if they all renounced the war, we would forget it almost immediately...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/11/AR2005111101623_pf.html

<snip>

I was wrong.

Almost three years ago we went into Iraq to remove what we were told -- and what many of us believed and argued -- was a threat to America. But in fact we now know that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction when our forces invaded Iraq in 2003. The intelligence was deeply flawed and, in some cases, manipulated to fit a political agenda.

It was a mistake to vote for this war in 2002. I take responsibility for that mistake. It has been hard to say these words because those who didn't make a mistake -- the men and women of our armed forces and their families -- have performed heroically and paid a dear price.

The world desperately needs moral leadership from America, and the foundation for moral leadership is telling the truth.


more...

[spanone]

25. One and counting....thanks. How many to go?

[Cocoa]

26. then I'll mention the next one

and you will say, two and counting, etc.

And then three months later it will be back to zero. We'll have forgotten any democrat that has renounced their vote.

[spanone]

28. OK just give a full list and we'll go from there. Is there a list?

Is this the policy of the Democratic Party? Where's the list?

[Cocoa]

31. no list, but even if there was

it also would be forgotten.

[karynnj]

47. Kerry in his October Georgetown Iraq speech which laid out a plan

to get out also acknowledged that it was wrong to have voted for the IWR. He has repeated it dozens of times since.

Kerry acually spoke out against the war BEFORE it started and called for regime change here when Bush invaded. Kerry would not have taken us to war if he were President.

Edwards was a co-sponsor of the IWR, and even 9 months into the war still claimed it was the right thing to do. He now has said that he was wrong. In his case, it's harder to know what he would have done if he were President. In the interview (with Matthews), he said his reason for being for it wasn;t primarilly the WMD, but the danger of Saddam in the ME.

[MelissaB]

27. Great minds think alike!

I posted this above without a link. :hi:

[Cocoa]

30. Harkin too

Harkin renounced his vote very soon after the war, when the WMDs obviously weren't there.

edit, actually he renounced it even before the invasion...

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=483

No one has made life on the campaign trail more difficult for several of the frontrunning candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination than US Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa.

Last October, Harkin joined Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, North Carolina Senator John Edwards, Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman and Missouri Representative Richard Gephardt in voting for the resolution that authorized President Bush to take military action against Iraq. But, last week, Harkin admitted that he has been wrong to believe the Bush Administration was serious about exploring diplomatic alternatives to war.

If Congress were to vote again, Harkin said, he would oppose the resolution. "I'm not going to be fooled twice," the Iowan told hometown media in Des Moines. "As I look back it sure looks like the administration was never serious about resolving the situation peacefully," said Harkin, who complained that Bush has acted "like the cowboy who rode out of Texas, all guns blazing."

One of a growing number of Congressional Democrats who voted for the October resolution but who now are critical of the president's failure to respect language that instructed the Administration to pursue diplomatic solutions, Harkin said, "In my adult life, with the exception of Vietnam, this has been the biggest failure of diplomacy I've seen."


more...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. CYA. For politicians, it's a full time job.

[Jade Fox]

32. Exactly. I loved John Edwards just coming out and saying it....

There seems to be some conventional wisdom is politics that you never say you made a mistake, just spin it. Even if that were ever a wise move, the Dems need to figure out that things are different. EVERYONE's judgment was a little skewed after 9/11, and Bush has of course done his best to keep it that way.

[cascadiance]

35. Just come out and say that they never voted FOR WAR to start with...

any more than they voted to give Bush increased powers to conduct spying operations too (which the Bushies are also trying to claim was given with that bill). They should then say that they are TIRED of their votes being misused and mischaracterized and that they'd vote again to give a CONSCIENTIOUS and JUDICIOUS president some powers that wouldn't be overused, but that the only mistake they made when passing the vote, which might have them reconsider voting the other way now, was in how those in power were going to abuse using this additional power and their executive powers in falsely justifying a war and other activities such as spying on American citizens.

[karynnj]

48. Do you give similar credit to Kerry and others who preceded

Edwards?

[sattahipdeep]

36. Because Their tongues are silver forks

There's a lack of wisdom,
you can hear it on their breath
Windego

http://www.creative-native.com/lyrics/prieslyr.htm

[Marleyb]

38. Why can't WE choose who is on the sunday shows?

They are making us look bad. They can't seem to take a stand on anything!!

How the hell does lieberman get on every Sunday, when not one democrat would say HE represents them. His own state censured him. Republicans endorse him. It is ridiculous.

I think we need to start protesting at the TV stations. How do we get Dennis Kucinich on Meet the Press?

[Lefty48197]

39. flip-flop, flip-flop, spineless, indecisive...

...

[Beelzebud]

40. Because, sadly, they STILL have not found their spines...

I honestly don't know what it will take...

[kentuck]

41. Because they don't ...

They would be bragging about their vote if they thought we agreed with them.

[AtomicKitten]

42. Because it implicates them in the disastrous decision.

But, I agree, the best way is to fess up, come clean, apologize profusely, and move on. By not doing so, they are allowing Junior to continue his claim that the Dems gave him permission. They need to separate themselves from this nightmare and let Junior stand alone. Iraq is by all accounts an unmitigated disaster. If the Dems wait too long, it will be too late to climb to higher ground.

FTR, this isn't DLC or PDQ or BFD or XYZ *sarcasm*; the opportunists here at DU never miss a beat dragging that straw man into any conversation. The Iraq vote was a vote of conscience for some, cowardice for others.

It is becoming clear that the best way to put this behind us is to seek out and elect those that weren't complicit in this war, and there are plenty of excellent candidates that had the insight and common sense to call BS on Iraq from the get-go.

[spanone]

43. If the Dems would have said 'as a party' we were duped.

....as the voters, you were duped also. Sure some would have disagreed, but at least it would be a STAND. Something to HOLD ON TO.

[calimary]

44. All they have to say is "because I TRUSTED my president, and he LIED

to me."

The TEN-WORD DEFENSE. Or maybe, make that the TEN-WORD OFFENSE. Because we go on the OFFENSE with that one. Turn it straight back around and smash it back directly into bush's smug little smirk. Where it belongs.

[AtomicKitten]

45. and all evidence points to the fact that they were LIED to,

(although I give Dems more credit than to really think they were duped; most were too cowardly to call this administration liars at the time)

The Dems have piles of evidence of the lies and manipulation of intelligence. That is their life-line to credibility.

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. spanone, keep ONE thing in mind ...she's a DLC MEMBER.

She is a DLC member. I don't know if Daschle ever was a member when he was in the Senate, but Jane IS. The DLC undermines EVERYTHING the Progressive Democrats do and say.

Vilsack...The Democrats shouldn't come out against the illegal wiretapping...DLC member.

Evan Bayh...the Democrats shouldn't come out against the illegal wiretapping....DLC member.

Jane Harman...the wiretapping program should remain....DLC member.

Whenever you hear a Dem in favor of this, look at the DLC membership list. That will tell you who they're working for and it isn't the Progressive side of the Democratic Party.:grr:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=344778

[AtomicKitten]

50. the DLC is also responsible for Britney Spears' poor parenting skills

mildew stains, world poverty, and Arrested Development being canceled.

Ps: Here's an OP-ED Jane Harman wrote on wire-tapping:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/05/EDGQGH2G7U1.DTL