Spygate will not harm Junior, and the issue will fade...

[CoffeeCat]

We can prove that Bush illegally wiretapped all we want.

In fact, we will probably establish that he violated the Constitution. He'll just
keep defending his actions with 9/11. What does he care what "We The People" think?
There is no recourse for him. Reps control Congress and they won't impeach him, as he
uses 9/11 to defend his actions.

In order to make this scandal stick, we must know WHO he wiretapped.

I apologize if I offend anyone with a dark cloud over this issue--but we will NEVER know
who Junior spied on. Never. It would take a senior WH official--with lists and tapes--
to leak the information. That's assuming that tapes and lists exist.

Does anyone think a senior WH official will leak?

I've seen these slippery, evil, fascist eels slip away from dozens of scandals. I'm sorry, but
I no longer have faith in our system of government. They get away with everything and remain
unscathed.

I've grown weary of "This is the one! This is the scandal that will do him in! Impeach!"

All we can do is fight back in big and small ways--protesting, staying informed, writing LTTE,
helping progressive candidates, helping to ensure legitimate voting.

We cannot defeat these bastards by bringing them down with one of their scandals.

I wish we could, but we can't.

[Saturday]

1. There is a little hope,

Arlen Spector and a couple other republicans are with us on investigating the matter. IMO we should all e-mail Spector and thank him for being an American before a republican.

[Blutodog]

4. Unfortunately your absolutely right!

Here's an article from Salon: detailing exactly why ur right!

Dau Report (from Salon.com) -
"The Dynamic of a Bush Scandal: How the Spying Story Will Unfold (and Fade)"
by Peter Daou
The third button on the Daou Report's navigation bar links to the U.S. Constitution, a Constitution many Americans believe is on life support - if not already dead. The cause of its demise is the corrosive interplay between the Bush administration, a bevy of blind apologists, a politically apathetic public, a well-oiled rightwing message machine, lapdog reporters, and a disorganized opposition. The domestic spying case perfectly illuminates the workings of that system. And the unfolding of this story augurs poorly for those who expect it to yield different results from other administration scandals.
Here's why: the dynamic of a typical Bush scandal follows familiar contours...
1. POTUS circumvents the law - an impeachable offense.
2. The story breaks (in this case after having been concealed by a news organization until well after Election 2004).
3. The Bush crew floats a number of pushback strategies, settling on one that becomes the mantra of virtually every Republican surrogate. These Republicans face down poorly prepped Dem surrogates and shred them on cable news shows.
4. Rightwing attack dogs on talk radio, blogs, cable nets, and conservative editorial pages maul Bush's critics as traitors for questioning the CIC.
5. The Republican leadership plays defense for Bush, no matter how flagrant the Bush over-reach, no matter how damaging the administration's actions to America's reputation and to the Constitution. A few 'mavericks' like Hagel or Specter risk the inevitable rightwing backlash and meekly suggest that the president should obey the law. John McCain, always the Bush apologist when it really comes down to it, minimizes the scandal.
6. Left-leaning bloggers and online activists go ballistic, expressing their all-too-familiar combination of outrage at Bush and frustration that nothing ever seems to happen with these scandals. Several newspaper editorials echo these sentiments but quickly move on to other issues.
7. A few reliable Dems, Conyers, Boxer, et al, take a stand on principle, giving momentary hope to the progressive grassroots/netroots community. The rest of the Dem leadership is temporarily outraged (adding to that hope), but is chronically incapable of maintaining the sense of high indignation and focus required to reach critical mass and create a wholesale shift in public opinion. For example, just as this mother of all scandals hits Washington, Democrats are still putting out press releases on Iraq, ANWR and a range of other topics, diluting the story and signaling that they have little intention of following through. This allows Bush to use his three favorite weapons: time, America's political apathy, and make-believe 'journalists' who yuck it up with him and ask fluff questions at his frat-boy pressers.
8. Reporters and media outlets obfuscate and equivocate, pretending to ask tough questions but essentially pushing the same narratives they've developed and perfected over the past five years, namely, some variation of "Bush firm, Dems soft." A range of Bush-protecting tactics are put into play, one being to ask ridiculously misleading questions such as "Should Bush have the right to protect Americans or should he cave in to Democratic political pressure?" All the while, the right assaults the "liberal" media for daring to tell anything resembling the truth.
9. Polls will emerge with 'proof' that half the public agrees that Bush should have the right to "protect Americans against terrorists." Again, the issue will be framed to mask the true nature of the malfeasance. The media will use these polls to create a self-fulfilling loop and convince the public that it isn't that bad after all. The president breaks the law. Life goes on.
10. The story starts blending into a long string of administration scandals, and through skillful use of scandal fatigue, Bush weathers the storm and moves on, further demoralizing his opponents and cementing the press narrative about his 'resolve' and toughness. Congressional hearings might revive the issue momentarily, and bloggers will hammer away at it, but the initial hype is all the Democrat leadership and the media can muster, and anyway, it's never as juicy the second time around...
Rinse and repeat.
It's a battle of attrition that Bush and his team have mastered. Short of a major Dem initiative to alter the cycle, to throw a wrench into the system, to go after the media institutionally, this cycle will continue for the foreseeable future.
###

[MrModerate]

7. But check this out . . .

A different perspective on the Daou Effect: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/breaking-daou-cycle-conservative.html

[Horse with no Name]

5. Arlen Specter ALSO investigated

a couple of other scandals that were glossed over...
He isn't a knight in shining armor.
He is just part of the White House Hazmat Crew.
Cleans up the nasty spills and then moves on to business as usual.

[Zen Democrat]

14. Arlen Specter: Creator of the Single Bullet Theory

When he was a staffer for the Warren Commission. Enough said.

[MrModerate]

2. I tend to think you're right, but . . .

they haven't squeezed out all the optimism in me yet. What could make this "the big one" is Republican disgust and distrust of an imperial presidency. It doesn't take much imagination to realize how bad this could get if Bush is NOT challenged. Just as he's lowered the bar on almost every other category of presidential behavior, he's managed to limbo lower than Nixon on the matter of ethics.

A lot of pubbies are squirming right now -- if not becase their consciences are poking them, because they have the wit to see the danger. If Bush keeps flinging this shit around as arrogantly as he has over the last few days, squirming pubbies will HAVE to dig their heels in.

A long shot, I know, but not out of the question.

Also -- along with the other things we need to do to fight back is to keep up our own morale. If we despair, then the terrorists at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue have already won.

[Wordie]

3. They're talking about impeachment on Hardball. That seems a step in the

right direction. That msm would even speak the "I" word, is significant.

So maybe there's hope...

[KoKo]

6. I wouldn't be that cynical over this issue, though.

Having seen so many "Stick a fork in 'em, He's Done" posts in my years on DU...I can get a little tired of it, also.

Still there's the "build up." Our main problem is getting our Dems besides Conyers and the Black Caucus ENGAGED on these issues.

We have to keep notifying them....over and over. So many Dems just live in "Bubbles." They send out Donna Brazille and Bob Shrum to represent US?????:crazy: Only clueless would do that. We haven't done a great job of informing them, I think. The RW Lobbyists write Bills for their constituents. Isn't it TIME we did that here for our DEM Constituents? :shrug:

[lyonn]

17. Our representatives.....?

Donna Brazille and Bob Shrum, you are so right. Your "bubble" analogy seems to fit our people in Wash. as they don't seem to get what we out here in the real country are screaming.

[Jim Sagle]

8. Defeatist rubbish.

[ladjf]

19. Brave words. But, by what mechanism can Bush be brought to

justice?

[Cha]

9. Buck Up, Sparkles or Two!

I know how bush has gotten away with every gawd damn thing..so he thinks..but I ain't ever giving up on that next big scandal! :(

snip~
"TIME: Presidential Snooping Damages the Nation
Presidential Snooping Damages the Nation
Bush has put himself above the law and in the company of rogues

Back in the 1930s, when confronted with clear evidence he had violated the law, Georgia's then agriculture commissioner and gubernatorial candidate Eugene Talmadge popped his bright red suspenders and dared those accusing him of corruption to do something about it, declaring, "Sure, I stole, but I stole for you." He was elected Governor in 1932. Accused of breaking the law in the current debate over electronic spying, President George W. Bush has, in his own way, dared the American people to do something about it. For the sake of our Constitution, I hope they will.

Let's focus briefly on what the President has done here. Exactly like Nixon before him, Bush has ordered the National Security Agency (NSA) to conduct electronic snooping on communications of various people, including U.S. citizens. That action is unequivocally contrary to the express and implied requirements of federal law that such surveillance of U.S. persons inside the U.S. (regardless of whether their communications are going abroad) must be preceded by a court order. General Michael Hayden, a former director of the NSA and now second in command at the new Directorate of National Intelligence, testified to precisely that point at a congressional hearing in April 2000. In response, the President and his defenders have fallen back on the same rationale used by Nixon, saying essentially, "I am the Commander in Chief; I am responsible for the security of this country; the people expect me to do this; and I am going to do it." But the Supreme Court slapped Nixon's hands when he made the same point in 1972. And it slapped Bush's hands when, after 9/11, he asserted authority to indefinitely detain those he unilaterally deemed "enemy combatants"--without any court access."


More at..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x182603

[txindy]

10. Yep, that's the spirit.

:eyes:

[lyonn]

11. Gulf of Tonkin

Just looked that up again and talk about de ja vu (sp?). Johnson had the same reasoning for going into Viet Nam. Lies and manipulations. They even mention how the NY Times and Washington Post went along with the White House talking points. No questions asked. The country felt like they were disloyal to country if they didn't agree with the Pres. Would he lie? They thought not. History is truly repeating itself. Remember the escalation in VN?

In 1964 I was working near an Air Force base and made the comment to an AF officer that I didn't agree with the escalation that Johnson was promoting and he and his wife got down right huffy with me. I was young and backed off discussing it. Being old now I have no problem letting people know my views, for all the good it's done! ha

Edit: A bit of good news here in Okla., some of my friends and relatives that are repubs. have voiced their opinion of Bush and it's not good.

[carolinalady]

12. Whoever leaked the meeting with Ashcroft at his sickbed knows

this info. I personally think it is Ashcroft himself who knows enough about the law to realize a whole lot of people are in really deep shit. You may be right, but it ain't over yet.

[MODemocrat]

13. Hopefully, he will self-destruct

He is such a crazy loon, he just can't stay out of trouble, and anyone can be brought down to their size.

[OneTwentyoNine]

15. Not fading yet or dim bulb wouldn't be defending his right to do so..

On a damn DAILY basis somewhere. Thats all he seems to be talking about. It's not over....

[Jayhawk Lib]

16. I'm not holding my breath....nt

[ladjf]

18. With Congress, the Supreme Court, the Media and the Military

defending him, he is hard, if not impossible, to get to. Folks, I think we have a dictatorship in America.