'Why Democrats lose' (THIS IS REALLY GOOD)

[HomerRamone]

Cenk Uygur: 'Why Democrats lose: Ten lessons learned from the Alito fight'

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=24699

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3. Once the Republican framing goes unchallenged, the media repeats it as if it is fact. If you do not counter attack in the media, you have no chance in persuading the public. Do the Democrats think the voters are going to get their point of view by telepathy?

4. The easy next step is to do a poll (sometimes by completely biased polling groups like Rasmussen and sometimes by legit polling organizations). The poll will show that the public supports the Republican position by a slight majority. It's amazing that it is only a slight lead on most issues when the other side hasn't even presented its case (and often times the Democratic position will win despite all these problems). Could you imagine if there were trials where only one of the lawyers spoke? Which side do you think would win more often?

5. Then comes my favorite step. Shove the poll in the Democrats face and tell them that they have no hope of winning and that the public is against them. Even more importantly, that they will lose their elections if they don't run to the "center" by supporting the Republican position instead. They will claim that the poll is definitive evidence that the public does not support their position so they better get on board with the Republicans otherwise they'll do to them what they did to Tom Daschle.

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8. Here comes another funny part. Then the Republicans point disapprovingly and tell the Democrats that their own base is crazy, radical and can't be trusted. If they "pander" to their base, they will lose all the mythical Republicans who vote for them in red states. Aren't the Republicans so helpful? They just want to help a brother out. Meanwhile, they keep appealing more and more to their base. I wonder why they don't worry about losing the "center."

MORE: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=24699

[Skidmore]

1. Yup, yup, and yup

May I repeat something I've said over and over--

Get a rapid response team and get the Dems' butts out there right away. Hell, hire some of our DU people who are all over stuff as it happens.

[fiddlestix]

5. It's like that stupid survey after the '04 elections

You know, the one where voters chose Repug candidates for "moral" reasons...because you know, those darn Dems, they are just a-floatin in a sea of Immorality!

I am the Epitomy of Morality, how dare you label me! Harrumph!

[politicaholic]

9. Unfortunately, the party has to hone its message and stay there...

the dems get too fragmented because (and this is why I love being a democrat) they love to keep an open mind and argue even with each other resulting in a negotiated consensus. Though that is an intellectually sound concept and certainly the intent of the founding fathers, Americans aren't interested in intellectual concepts and think that Samual Adams is the 'beer guy' and Thomas Jefferson wrote blacksploitation romance novels.

[Skidmore]

16. I don't think keeping an open mind has anything to do with it anymore.

I've come to the conclusion that everyone wants to be in charge and no one wants to follow.

[MsUSA]

11. I thought Kerry was going to do that, get a rapid response

team I mean. Whatever happened to that??? :shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

18. They are almost ready to start blasting back. eom.

[blm]

32. The media ignored it - check the editting room floors of the Military

Industrail Media Complex.

The research forum has a thread that proves the media wouldn't cover Kerry's counterattack on the swiftliars.

[blm]

33. You think Military Industrial Media Complex would give us airtime?

.

[ariellyn]

2. Oh gee. How simple. Just counter the lies in the media.

:eyes:

How can anyone believe that Dems are given the same opportunity to rebut and counter propoganda as those in the majority. They simply are not given that opportunity--and they won't be.

[OzarkDem]

6. They're not trying

If they have a strategy for getting news media coverage, they need to change it, again and again and again until it works.

[AndyTiedye]

14. They Only Way To Get Favorable Coverage From the Media is to Own It

That's what the Republicans did.

[leftstreet]

20. Katrina/NOLA coverage wasn't favorable to Bushco

But people wanted to see it. And the corporate media "favors" only profits. If the rightwing truly owned the media, we the people would never have seen half the coverage we did.

[blm]

34. No. What Katrina WAS - an UNSPINNABLE event. The media is making up for

it now to BushInc by not holding him accountable for Katrina.

[mattclearing]

29. Bullshit.

The media ignores them or mocks them. The way to get good media coverage is to get new media.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Well, they can start by not sending their wimpiest representatives

to "debate" the right wing pit bulls. If the news talk shows ask for a Democratic spokesperson, send a feisty one.

They can use the power of their local media. A sitting Congresscritter or Senator has nearly automatic access to his or her local media and can always make personal appearances. Let them do an end run around the national MSM.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. When they have the opportunity they blow it.

Not always, but almost always, our side is unprepared and has frequently internalized the republican talking points. Rather than challenge the framing, as Dean did so well over the 'Bipartisan Scandal', they accept it as truth and attempt to explain it or just agree with it.

Being continually suprised that your opponents are lying and cheating at every opportunity is starting to wear thin.

[KittyWampus]

49. Dean challenged the "framing" superficially. He failed to call out Blitzer

for repeating GOP talking points and not knowing the simple facts.

It's NOT ENOUGH to say "It's entirely a GOP scandal".

Dean and Democrats need to say to the Mediawhore:

"IF you were an independant journalist you'd know...."
"As a journalist you SHOULD realize the fact that...."
"Any UNBIASED reporter wouldn't be repeating Rove talking points such as..."

[cry baby]

3. darn good summary by Cenk

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. Amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, and

can I hear a final loud "amen!" from those who have been saying this all along?

[sheelz]

7. When Repubs steal elections we lose!

It's really that simple.

[movonne]

12. Yes that is why we lose...because we (in my opinon) we have won

all the elections...Diebold changes the votes..

[madrchsod]

10. last night on kos it was brought up

that not one democrat jumped on the selling of cell phone records and the republicans took the credit. if there is one issue that transcends party lines this is it but i guess the boys in washington have their head up their asses so far they can`t see nothing but their own shit.

[neverevergivein]

13. wow, is that true?

where are the people fighting for US?

[madrchsod]

19. here ya go

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/3/32920/55229
Daily Kos: Feds moving to ban sale of cell phone info

[justabob]

40. Wait a minute

I would have sworn I saw posts here about Clark pushing this (because his records were bought). There were posts about legislation put up by a dem and a rep.... :shrug: I'll have to look and see if I can find those threads.

[AndyA]

15. Learn by observing, then copy

Dems could just do the same thing the Repubs do.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, until it's the truth.

I do think we need some high profile people to speak up more promptly and more loudly - perhaps Governor Tim could do it. A more forceful Tim screaming about the latest Repub abuse would likely catch attention, especially since he was so affable in his response to the SOTU.

Surprise them, get their attention, then run with it!

[IndyOp]

21. Nope! Nope! Nope! Democrats lose because

Republicans STEAL Elections!

After Dashle's seat was taken from him the Republicans used him is a lesson to be learned for remaining Dems - "See what happens when you obstruct the President's judicial appointments? You will lose your next election! We will target you!" And the Republicans can guarantee that 'problem Dems' *will* disappear because they control the elections. The Dems *ARE* being responsive to the electorate - they think - when in fact they are responsive to the GOP's election theft.

First comments from Bernard Weiner & then comments from Jonathon Simon:

Reforming the Democrats -- Or a Third Party? By Bernard Weiner, The Crisis Papers

The Democratic Party, with its current cast of characters in charge, has refused time after time to stand up and fight for its underlying principles. Its recent incoherent or wimpy positions on the Iraq War, electoral fraud and the Alito nomination make clear that it's stuck in a self-destructive rut and isn't terribly eager (or can't figure out how) to climb out of it. As I see it, we have two options in dealing with this deficient, bumbling, weak-kneed crew. <snip>

Comments from Jonathon Simon:
Readers should keep in mind that a major reason the Dems have gone weak-kneed is that they are losing rigged elections. I'm not saying that the Dems don't have plenty of intrinsic weaknesses and have not substantially sold out to the corporate establishment. But it does have a profound impact on strategy, courage, fortitude, etc. when no matter what you do you get beaten. Make no mistake, these rigged elections are being interpreted by the Dems as well as the media and the public as bigtime referenda saying the American public, for whatever reason, wants nothing to do with liberalism or dissent. You keep touching that hot stove and before long you don't even want to see the inside of a kitchen. The rigged election impact is that strong and I don't see how a third party could be any more successful than the Dems until the electoral apparatus is made at least roughly accurate and honest. The value of third party (or independent) candidacies, however, would be some sort of legal standing to challenge electoral results and procedures. This does not require an elaborate third-party movement, just a lot of grassroots participation. See below for this idea as put forth by Dennis Morrisseau.-Jonathan

In a nutshell, then: We get people to run in every district and state for every US House and Senate seat available in the '06 elections, e.g. 435 House seats and 33 Senate.

To Run,...... to Run......It is not necessary to win or even to dream of winning.We run in rebellion, as rebellion, as an act of civil disobedience against the gathering darkness. We run for love of country and to save ourselves. Not to join the present Congress . We run AT IT. To model a sane but potent rebellion. As a theater of rebellion. Intending to break it down and repeople it if we win, with ourselves. It is not necessary to win.............though winning is possible.

If we run in numbers, real numbers, and with all the color and creativity of which we are capable, the beast falls. (We run from all parties and groups AT both Dems and Repugs.)( Run in R or D primaries, then as Independents (whatever) in the general election, or as 3rd party from the get-go.)

The very first thing each of us does after announcing, is to file a lawsuit (built from a single generic action, customised for each district/state) to set aside and restrain all recent elections law, and to restrain the use of any electronic voting or vote counting equipment. Ask each court to order that in this election the old established paper ballot with hand count process be reinstated (that's easy for a court to do and for elections officials also). As candidates, we will clearly have "standing " to do this. And as candidates, we cannot be stopped from publicizing what we're doing and why. We can holler and yell "They're stealing elections in America!" as long and hard as we wish, no matter what the judge says......and this cry will be heard. ( Recent polls show astounding public concern re vote fraud by machine rigging.) Everyone understands what it means, if the fucks in power can steal our votes! We don't gotta explain that!

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Yeah, that too. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. But you run the risk of a "losing circle"

Step one: "We can't take any strong stances because we're in the minority and can't afford to alienate any potential voters."

Step two: "We keep losing elections because the Republicans have rigged them."

Step three: "We can't make too much of a fuss about rigged elections because we're in the minority."

The only reason the Republicans can plausibly steal elections is that they're close. They don't even try to pretend that a Republican could win local offices in Minneapolis or St. Paul. No one would believe them.

If the Democrats take some strong stances on a few issues that the Republicans have been either ignoring or bumbling, agree that they should all campaign on these issues, and tout their stances at every opportunity and through every possible channel, then let's see how easy it is for the Republicans to steal votes and get away with it.

[IndyOp]

41. We *must* make a fuss because it is the only way out of the circle...

Even if the currently elected crop of Dems will have to follow us on this instead of leading.

And - IMHO - one of the BIGGEST problems we have is the belief that the only reason Republicans can plausibly steal elections is that thay're close. The technology will allow one to change a 30%/70% split to 70%/30% just as easily as changing 48%/52% to 52%/48%. If your point is that people will 'surely realize' that it was stolen if the theft is BIG - I think this is only true if a huge proportion of people go to the polls. So long as the proportion of people voting is less than 90% then people believe the results reported - even if they don't agree with polls before or after the election.

[HomerRamone]

27. Could I have links to all these

and who wrote the part in the 2nd box? Thanks.

[IndyOp]

43. I got this in an email --

Jonathon Simon is a pollster

Dennis Morrisseau - I do not know - Jonathon copied a piece of something Dennis wrote into his email. I thought it was interesting, too.

:hi:

[Sejanus]

36. duh

Why don't you try reading Begala's and Carville's new book and drop the b.s. that the majority of people are voting democratic but the nasty republicans are stealing it/-an easy way to avoid self-examination and criticism/remember the election officials in all those Florida counties in 2000 were democrats-the fact is as Begala and Carville point out is that independent voters went Republican-despite misgivings-because they did not trust the democrats-particularly on VALUES (and yes they count in elections)and NATIONAL SECURITY-In short we must show the swing voters that we will have the terrorist's blood running in the scuppers while we sing God Bless America

[IndyOp]

42. And I think you are wimping out of facing the fact that it was stolen.

You think I am avoiding self-examination. I think YOU are avoiding the truth.

And if you answer another post of mine with an insulting 'duh' I will hit the magic "ignore" button. There is a difference between disagreeing and being rude.

On Edit: Besides which you sould like a visitor from the DLC. And if you think that liberals don't think and write and speak daily about "national security" (though we call it PEACE) and "values" (the ones Jesus Christ and Martin Luther King spoke so much about) then you are deaf, dumb, and blind.

:(

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Agreed. We need to start taking clear stances - by LISTENING to the base

not alienating the base. This 'run to the center, sell out, court the values voters, sprinkle Jesus into all the speeches' crap isn't working.

[Me.]

24. Step #8

is why Tweety feels absolutely comfortable calling us left wing whack jobs.

[sasha031]

25. why Dem's lose/ read Fooled Again

[Stevepol]

35. EXACTLY: Until Dems shout this out without fear, they will get flak.

As long as the Dems won't tell the truth, i.e., that the elections of 02 and 04 were stolen, most likely by the electronic voting machines, they can expect to get this response from the Repubs. And why not?

The Dems are going to have to get a spine and be willing to STATE THE FACTS. The exit polls are A FACT. You might argue about how accurate exit polls are but that's another argument. The fact remains that the exit polls had Kerry winning by 3 1/2% or about 5M votes and winning OH easily and perhaps FL as well (and NM too). Unless the Dems put the Repubs on the defensive, make them defend the "alleged" cyber results, make them denounce the exit polls, make them explain the FACTS.

FACTS!!!!!!!!!

What courage does it take to state THE FACTS???????

Until the Dems get enough courage to state the facts, they deserve to have this thrown in their faces.

[Sejanus]

37. FACTS

The Republicans will respond to that attack the same way the Democrats responded in 1964 to Goldwater-"In your heart you know he's right and in your guts you know he's nuts"-Do you really want statisticians on C-Span carrying on this type of boring nonsense? When we turn to mathematics for victory we are screwed right from the opening whistle

[satya]

28. 11. Dems ignore the fact that 19% of registered voters are LIBERALS.

No, not 19% of Democrats; 19% of REGISTERED VOTERS.

Pew Research Center -- Beyond Red vs. Blue

The Left

At the other end of the political spectrum, Liberals have swelled to become the largest voting bloc in the typology. Liberals are opponents of an assertive foreign policy, strong supporters of environmental protection, and solid backers of government assistance to the poor.

This affluent, well-educated, highly secular group is consistently liberal on social issues, ranging from freedom of expression to abortion. <snip>

The report also points out the GOP wedge issues, such as stem-cell research and the environment, issues we could be using to attract moderate GOP voters.

[Sejanus]

38. Statistics

Ya, and that only leaves 81% of the voters left-including the 20% of swing voters who turn most elections

[NewJeffCT]

46. well, considering that only 50% vote

if you can get turnout to be 80-90% among that 19% of registered voters, you're talking 30-40% of actual voters...

That's why the Republicans play to "the whackos" (in the words of their own Michael Scanlon) - if they can get a high turnout among the fundies, it will have a similar effect for them.

[bvar22]

30. The reason Dems lose....

...Perfect example was on National Display last Tuesady...
a wimpy , passionless response to the SOTU.
The Democratic Party had a CAPTIVE NATIONAL AUDIENCE....and THAT was the best they could do.

[leftstreet]

39. Dumbest move ever

I know SO many hardworking, decent, clueless, non-fundy Republican voters who've turned on Bush because of Iraq.

They needed to hear Jack Murtha call out Bush's lies!
Jack in front of a dozen US flags speaking the truth.

I'm sure Kaine is a nice guy, but he just handed a ton of befuddled voters "a better way" to prove "there's no difference between Dems and Repubs. Why bother voting."

And the Dems bitched when Jeb Bush tried to purge voters in FL.
:eyes:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

44. Truly - the dumbest move ever

Really - who exactly made that choice? What a waste.

[jasmeel]

31. None of this would be possible without their willing accomplice...

the media.

[seabeyond]

45. majority feel dems won so kinda ironic to talk why dems lose

but none the less, with media concerted effort to weaken dem at every turn, you would think title would be more like how media helps repugs win

[Poiuyt]

47. Great article. Original post at Huffington has many good comments

and some stupid ones too:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/lessons-learned-from-the-_b_14909.html

[ComerPerro]

48. By "do what they did to Tom Daschle", does that mean send anthrax?

[Helga Scow Stern]

50. They steal elections and these are means of disguising it. n/t

[rndmprsn]

51. ugh...unfortunately this is mostly true eom

[Poiuyt]

52. Kick. This should be sent to all Democratic leaders

We need to learn how to frame better