Right Wing cousins e-mail this morning: THE LAW IS THE LAW!

[B Calm]

THE LAW IS THE LAW -SO BE IT!

So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the
words"under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

And if that same government decides that the"Ten Commandments" are not to
be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.

I say,"so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen.

I say,"so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I
are in positions to make good decisions.

I would like to think that those people have the American public's best
interests at heart.



BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?



Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His
Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and its
employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which
honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of
American life.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving &
Easter.& nbsp; After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the "US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday,
Thanksgiving & Easter as well as Sundays." After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry
about getting home for the"Christmas Break." After all it's just another
day.

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all
government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.
It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day
of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct."



In fact...I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially
set aside for worshipping God...) because, after all, our government says
that it should be just another day....



What do you all think????

If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop
giving in to the "minority opinions" and begin, once again, to represent the
"majority" of ALL of the American people.



SO BE IT...........

Please Dear Lord,
Give us the help needed to keep you in our country!

'Amen'


These are definitely things I never thought about but from now on, I will
be sure to question those in government who support these changes.


At the top, it says "I hope this makes its way around the USA several
times over!!!!!"



Let's see that it does.

SO BE IT..........

[Kiouni]

1. Well I have to work on Christmas....

but then again I work nights and if I have to be up so should everyone else. so when I go home tonight I'm blaring my horn all the way home!


or is this argument just stupid?

[B Calm]

3. The last time I looked, In God We Trust was still on our money and

kids are still allowed to pray in school.. Sounds to me the christians are now trying to do away with christian holidays.. I don't get it!

[tsuki]

15. Typical RW diversion. Mr. Bush is in trouble with the war

escalation, so they look for fluff to divert attention from the real issues.

Look for more stupid emails.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. It's working pretty well since they've got DU talking about it!

Just ignore it. And remember that everyone has a right to free speech, not just us, so we shouldn't condemn them.

My experience is that people send these e-mails to relatives and friends thinking that everyone they know agrees with them. The delete button is our friend. :-)

[tsuki]

76. I hit reply all and request that they do not include me in their

blasphemous emails. :evilgrin:

[EstimatedProphet]

85. I disagree

We can condemn them all we want. that's what free speech is really about - let the bad, evil ideas get play too, so that everyone knows what they are.

[Skittles]

62. same here K

I work nights and all holidays - lord, these wingers truly are pathetic dipshits are they not?

[GCP]

2. Do they make this stuff up jus to get the religionists all fired up?

I've never heard of taking "In God We Trust" off the money. As a atheist, I think it's quaint and eighteenth-century-ist, but it's never bothered me and I've never heard calls for getting rid of it.
:shrug:

[Kiouni]

4. I remember the blind complaining

about the money. But I think most of the atheists "brights" just use their debit cards that say "in visa we trust."

[Clark2008]

7. Personally, I think God is offended by being on our old, dirty

money, anyway.

:7

[DemBones DemBones]

14. There have been efforts to remove "In God We Trust"

from currency. Also, efforts have been made to remove "one nation, under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. The person who wrote that didn't make it up.

[mondo joe]

40. And how does that forbid anyone from trusting in god?

[DemBones DemBones]

50. I was responding to a post that said no one was trying to remove

"In God We Trust" from currency, when in fact such efforts have been made.

The man in California who sued to have "one nation, under God" removed from the pledge also talked about suing to remove "in God We Trust" from currency. That was the most recent I've heard of but it's been talked about ever since school prayer was banned. Madalyn Murray O'Hair may have filed suit on that issue; she was constantly involved in litigation.

Removing the motto would not forbid anyone from trusting in God but it would send an antitheistic message, which is what O'Hair and the California man both intended.

[mondo joe]

53. Point one: removing the message is not anti-theistic. It is theism-neutral.

Point two: the letters goes on to say "Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His Commandments in Government buildings..."

The premise of the letter is false in its entirety. It is false in detail only mostly.

[DemBones DemBones]

66. That's how you see it. That's not how the letter writer sees it.

You can fault his logic but if he hasn't studied logic, he won't get your point.

His view is that the government has no respect for his Christian faith and is therefore challenging the government to stop observing Christian holy days (all Sundays, Christmas, Good Friday), deliver the mail every day of the year and have Congress and courts in session every day as well.

You don't agree with his premise but it resonates with a lot of Christians, which makes it important.

All this arguing about what really is not an offensive letter is indicative of the wider truth that many liberals have little if any respect for Christianity, the majority religion in this country and the world, while bending over backwards to repect Islam, Judaism, and other religions. That's why the polls indicate that most churchgoers vote Republican. Democrats mock Christians while Republicans court them.

Again, you can fault his logic, but why do you want to lose his vote? Do you think anyone who wants to vote for a Democrat should have to pass a logic test? Will knowledge of Boolean algebra be required, or just Aristotelian logic?

[mondo joe]

68. The letter writer is inaccurate, as are you.

Not mentioning is god is not anti-theistic. It is simply neutral. "There is/are no god/s" would be anti theistic.

And don't waste your fingertips suggesting this is not offensive. You, first of all, are guilty of your own inaccuracies.

Lying is always an offense.

[hfojvt]

74. name calling is always offensive

Where is the lie?

To not mention god is not anti-theistic. But if there is a mention of God, that was created perhaps in the 1950s or the 1750s, it IS anti-theistic to want to take that away. Isn't it? Or am I lying? Or just inaccurate?

The inaccuracies of people you hate are mostly offensive because you first hated them. If you liked them, or liked their thesis, you'd probably over-look huge inaccuracies, as would most of us. For our enemies, any inaccuracy is worthy, it seems, of total contempt.

[DemBones DemBones]

81. Thank you. Your header was great!

I agree with all that you said but the last paragraph is especially important.

"The inaccuracies of people you hate are mostly offensive because you first hated them. If you liked them, or liked their thesis, you'd probably over-look huge inaccuracies, as would most of us. For our enemies, any inaccuracy is worthy, it seems, of total contempt."

The letter writer said he wanted his mail delivered on Good Friday so it's being inferred that the writer is an idiot who doesn't know that mail is delivered on Good Friday. Posters here make mistakes all the time but we don't think they're idiots, we just think they made a mistake. We should extend the courtesy to others, unless they are directly attacking us or our principles, which is not the case here. This is a letter from a frustrated Christian but he's probably not one who wants a Christian theocracy here. I don't think a Dominionist or Christian Reconstructionist would waste his time writing something so mild.

[mondo joe]

83. And there was no name calling.

You are inaccurate. I can't say whether you are lying or not. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[hfojvt]

88. I believe there was

kinda subtle, and not direct, but you pretty much called DB a liar.

"Inaccurate, as are you ...you, also are guilty of your own inaccuracies...lying is always an offense". It read that way even if it was not your intent.

To be totally accurate, I also never directly said there was name calling, merely advanced the obvious truism that name calling is always offensive. It was implied though. I usually prefer discussions about the content of a post, rather than about the character of the poster. Admittedly though, I know and like this particular poster from way back.

[mrcheerful]

5. Another we are the majority e-mail? Surprise surprise surprise.

The law of the land protects the minority as well as the majority. The only time majority rules is on vote counting and they think that means majority rules all things? What don't these Moran's get? Religious freedom means all religion not just their brand of religion. Yet they either can't or refuse to see they are just as whacked out as their Muslim cousins. These same people whine that the terrorists are trying to kill all none muslims yet fail to see that 1) muslims kill more muslims then christens and 2)they would love to kill the non christens out in the world, where do you think their blood lust about Iraq comes from? The war is just an excuse for them to enjoy the killing of muslims. Religious hypocrites that talk out the side of their necks.

[GreenZoneLT]

6. Uhhhhh, about Easter

Easter's not a federal holiday. It's on Sunday. They already don't deliver mail on Sunday. And they deliver mail on Good Friday, too.

Christmas is a secular holiday as much as a religious one; the hardcore religionists banned it in Boston back when the Massachusetts colony was a theocracy.

Thanksgiving, also a creation of the federal government. Doesn't have any connection to any pre-existing Christian religious holiday.

My favorite part of that Spam is how it gets all worked up about ee-vil things the government is going to do, that aren't actually in the works.

Here's another one, in the same vein:

If the government decides that marriage between different-sex couples should be abolished, and that we all have to be practicing homosexuals...

I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?

I'd like the government to run free, 24-hour discos staffed with hot, writhing, leather-clad gogo boys, and hand out free poppers at the door, and require Congress and entire Washington bureaucracy to all dress up as subs and allow me to work my freakiest will upon them.

SO BE IT...........

[ccpup]

22. Amen n/t

[mrcheerful]

37. You forgot to add that xmas wasn't a federal holiday until 1870 and the gift giving thing

didn't really get a foot hold on xmas until 1920, some german communities were giving gifts before 1920, but 1920 was when it became popular to give gifts by all americans, mostly because Macy promoted gift giving as a way to drive up their sells during the winter slump.

[liberal N proud]

8. These fundamentalist Christians want feel persecuted

They thrust this persecution upon them selves with this war on Christmas bull shit and woe is me if I can't put God in everyones faces.

Did you reply to your relative that he should look at his money because the money you use still has GOD on it. And as far as we know, there are no laws banning anyone from praying anywhere. I know the most schools still have the Meet me at the pole at the start of school each year. Tell them maybe they should stop, read and think about the messages they forward.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Prayer has been banned in many instances.

Nobody is making that up.

Schooldays used to begin with a Bible reading, prayer, and Pledge of Allegiance. When I was in high school, the Supreme Court (acting on a case filed by atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair) banned prayer and Bible reading in public schools.

It had long before been ruled that kids did not have to participate in the Pledge, and I think it was also ruled that kids could opt out of prayer and Bible reading, too, as in leave the room during those activities.

We also had prayer before school sports events. That's been banned. We had prayer at graduation and we had baccalaureate, which was basically a prayer service, at some point prior to graduation. Private colleges and other private schools still do, even many that are not affiliated with a particular religion, but those prayers have been banned from public schools and I suppose baccalaureate has, too.

Of course no one can stop kids from silent prayer in school or stop them from organizing before or after school group prayer like Meet Me at the Flagpole.

Some people don't think that's enough and they complain about it, just like we complain about things we don't like. They have a right to free speech, even if we disagree with it. You must admit this particular e-mail was mostly accurate about the facts -- some people are forced to work on Easter and other Sundays and on Christmas and few have Good Friday off anymore -- and not nasty. If only that were true of all right wing mailings. . .

[Bridget Burke]

32. I remember school days beginning with The Pledge....

And "My Country Tis of Thee". There may have been prayer at football games & graduation--but there was NO daily prayer back then. No Bible reading.

I graduated high school in 1966--count back to figure out when I started. This was the Pasadena Independent School District in Texas--hardly a radical hotbed.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. I graduated in 1965 and I went to 17 schools in six states and one

foreign country, and in every one we had prayer, Bible reading and the Pledge every day, until prayer and Bible reading was banned in 1962. These were all public schools, except for the military dependents' school overseas. Sometimes we sang "My County 'Tis of Thee" or "America the Beautiful," too.

[Bridget Burke]

77. Did the prayer & Bible reading make you a better person?

I was a military dependent until my father died in a plane crash. So I was "spared" all that travel.

[DemBones DemBones]

80. Maybe, maybe not. Who can say?

I don't remember thinking much about it at the time; it was just part of school. When it was banned, I didn't particularly care, either. I just understand why a lot of people think it was important and believe it was good for kids. I can't say if they're correct in thinking that.


I am very sorry about your father. I know that was terrible for you, your mother and the rest of the family.

[mondo joe]

35. The email was NOT accurate about the facts.

And NO ONE has been stopped from praying.

Schools can not lead prayer - but no one is stopped from private prayer.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. It was accurate that organized prayer in schools was banned

by SCOTUS in 1962. Students cannot lead prayer in school if they are Christian, or gather in groups to pray during the day, even during recess or lunch hour. Bibles have been confiscated from kids. That's why so many Christian parents put their kids in Christian schools or homeschool them.

Muslim parents could do the same but they've succeded in getting the schools to make an exception for their kids. In Atlanta and probably many other places, Muslim kids are allowed out of class several times a day for organized group prayer. I haven't researched this issue at all; I'm just reporting what I have read in regular news reading. If I researched it, I'd know more, I'm sure.

I think everyone should be allowed to pray in school or no one should be allowed to pray in school. It's unfair to allow one group to pray and not others.

[mondo joe]

59. The stupid email doesn't even mention school prayer anyway.

So how could it be accurate about that?

[liberal N proud]

42. Organized Prayer may have been banned but they can not stop one

from silently praying any where or anytime.
That is one of the things that these people don't get. They are just pissed because they can't force non Christians to pray their prayers.

[DemBones DemBones]

60. No, they're pissed because Muslim kids are praying in school,

released from class to pray in a group in a designated prayer area, while Christian kids can only pray silently. Christian kids have been reprimanded from praying together during recess or lunch hour and have had their Bibles confiscated when they were only reading to themselves, silently, during free time.

Either everyone should have the right to pray aloud in groups during designated times, or no one should be allowed to pray aloud in groups.

[mondo joe]

61. In which schools are Muslinm kids released from class to go pray

in designated prayer areas?

[DemBones DemBones]

82. Work on your reading comprehension, OK? I'm tired of

repeating things. When I have repeated, you've just come back and argued that I didn;t say what I said or that the letter didn't say what it said.

[Prophet 451]

9. *headdesk* n/t

[Garbo 2004]

10. Good Friday is not a federal holiday. Neither is Easter. Just by the way. n/t

[B Calm]

11. damn, ha ha I never even thought about that!

[July]

13. "We can't pray to God . . ."

One of the many errors here. How about "we can't get the government to make everyone pray our way, everywhere"?

Poor babies.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Muslims are succeeding in forcing airports to

put in mosques for their convenience. Christians, and everyone else, have the right to ask for the same considerations.

[Bridget Burke]

36. Where has this occurred?

I know that Muslim Prayer Rooms have been set up in various places--for the use of employees & travelers. But Mosques are different.

Weren't a bunch of imams thrown off a plane recently because some xenophobic idiot was upset by their public prayer? A Prayer Room would minimize the chances that Cletus the Slack-jawed Yokel & his inbred kin cause any more trouble.

Edited to add: Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport has had an Interfaith Chapel since it opened in 1969.
www.fly2houston.com/iahChapel

[DemBones DemBones]

49. I've seen an airport mosque in

Brussels, think they are in many European airports now, and have read that they are demanding them in US airports. I think they refuse to use interfaith chapels. And I read a year or more ago that Muslim children in Atlanta public schools are allowed out of class to pray during the day, presumably in one special room. I don't think such courtesy would be extended to traditional Catholic children who pray the Angelus at nine, noon, and three.

You make my point by saying Muslims should have a special prayer room, unless you also agree that Christians should have special prayer rooms wherever they want them.

According to passengers on that flight, the imams were praying loudly before boarding and after boarding were loudly talking, mentioning Osama bin Laden more than once. They had also divided up to sit in different areas of the plane, near exit doors, as the 9/11 hijackers allegedly did.

But no doubt the passengers were simply xenophobic idiots, Cletus the Slack-jawed Yokel and his inbred kin. . . You know as well as I do that that's an inaccurate description of typical American airline passengers. I doubt it even fits a majority of Greyhound passengers today.

[mondo joe]

54. Youclaim that Muslims are succeeding in forcing airports to install mosques.

Can you provide a citation?

Thank you.

[DemBones DemBones]

79. I've seen the mosque in the airport in Brussels on fourteen separate trips.

Other European airports have them but I have not seen them myself because I haven't been to those airports.

Florence's airport does not, or did not last time I was there, but I would not be surprised if it did now. On every trip to Italy I saw more and more Muslims in the streets, mostly African but many Albanian as well, Albanians having fled to Italy to escape war while Africans go there for work. Italian friends say the Africans are good workers but there aren't enough jobs for them. . . Nor have I seen a mosque at Heathrow in London but there is very likely one there now since it's been fifteen years since I was in England. It's predicted that Europe will be Muslim by the end of the century if not before. We're only seeing the beginning of Muslim immigration here in the U.S.

Google will turn up plenty of references if you enter "airport mosques." Of course, a lot of the references are to mosques in Islamic countries and adding "American" just got me stories with two or more of the three keywords, like an American who visited a Mosque in Turkey or something. Someone in this thread said that there is a mosque in the Houston airport.

Here's a very recent article:

Twin Cities airport balks at offering Somalis own prayer room
Printer Friendly | PDF | Email | digg
The Associated Press
Jan 3, 2007 2:13 AM (9 days ago)
Current rank: Not ranked

MINNEAPOLIS - Somali refugees who want a place to pray at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport might have to share space with people of other religions, airport officials said Tuesday.

Airport Director Steve Wareham told Somalis gathered for a meeting that if the airport provides a special area for Muslims to use, it potentially would have to accommodate other faiths the same way.

"Our request would be you try the quiet seating area," he said. (This is a carpeted room with no religious symbols.)

<snip>

"Where you have Christians and Muslims praying at the same time, it will create a problem," he (Fuad Ali) said.

http://www.examiner.com/a-487244~Twin_Cities_airport_balks_at_offering_Somalis_own_prayer_room.html

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/16370149.htm?source=rss&channel=twincities_news is another article about Twin Cities. It brings up an additional problem due to religious differences: Somali taxi drivers refuse to transport fares who are carrying alcoholic beverages, which of course many people buy overseas in duty-free shops.

Muslim cabbies refusing to have passengers carry sealed bottles of alcoholic beverages in their cabs is an issue in Australia, too:


Sunday, October 08, 2006

(Update II) Catching a Cab at the Airport

(Are seeing-eye dogs next? A faithful reader from Australia emails this from the Herald Sun.)

(The Australian weighs in with this editorial: “It is a situation which both demonstrates the global nature of the debate on values and which presents a textbook case of how not to deal with Islamic fundamentalists in the West. Rather than threatening such cabbies with fines or loss of licence for refusing to carry fares, the Metropolitan Airports Commission has proposed special colour-coded lights to indicate which taxis are driven by non-Muslims and those willing to tote alcohol and those where sharia applies bumper to bumper. This is exactly the wrong solution. It opens moderate Muslim taxi drivers who are willing to carry passengers possessing alcohol open to harassment from their more radical co-religionists. It violates the long-enshrined legal principle that taxis are a public conveyance open to all….”



Here's one about a mosque at Ben-Gurion airport

Dec. 21, 2006 11:22 | Updated Dec. 21, 2006 22:02
Mini-mosque to be built in Ben-Gurion
By JONATHAN BECK


A prayer room for Muslims is being tentatively planned for Ben-Gurion Airport, as part of a series of steps aimed at strengthening ties with the Muslim community, the Airport Authority announced Thursday.

The authority's CEO Gabi Ofir instructed the airport's management to make sure the room would feature the conditions necessary for observant Muslims. According to Islamic doctrine, a prayer room must meet three central conditions: purity of location, purity of the body and purity of clothes. The square-shaped room will meet those standards.

Specifically, a purification water trough will be set up, as well as a 35 cm. rest bench. The 20 square meter room will face southeast. The room will be carpeted and have a niche facing Mecca on one of its walls. It will also contain a library with Korans.

The room is in its initial planning stage. According to the airport, the plans are tentative and no timetable for building the room has been decided.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881944305&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull



I also found articles about the clandestine Muslim prayer rooms in French airports that were closed in November 2006, along with the firing of Muslim security workers who allegedly had visited terrorist training camps. Here's one, about Charles deGaulle Airport, where 30 clandestine prayer sites were found, despite there being three official mosques in the airport. I never heard or saw this reported before. Media not wanting to hurt travel industry?

Terror suspects on airport staff
SUSAN BELLIN PARIS

UP TO a dozen workers at Paris Charles de Gaulle have access to the most sensitive areas of the airport, despite being suspected of links to Islamic terrorism, it emerged yesterday.

More than 70 Muslim workers at France's main airport have been stripped of their security clearance, after an investigation claimed staff had visited terrorists' training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But a number have kept their passes because, under French law, they must be allowed an opportunity to respond to charges before they are suspended.

Some are still cleaning planes and handling baggage for flights to the United States at Roissy-Charles-de-Gaulle Airport, a government official said. More than 100 staff were under surveillance for months after a security review earlier this year.

Investigators found that one employee was believed to be a friend of Richard Reid, the British shoe-bomber now serving a life sentence in Colorado, while another is believed to be close to a senior figure in an Algerian terrorist group with links to al-Qaeda. One French baggage-handler allegedly spent three years in Yemen and attended a military training camp run by Islamic militants.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1354&id=1626102006


Another source says

"New mosques are being planned, developed, or built in many major European cities, including—in addition to Rotterdam—Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Munich, Cologne, Berlin, Strasbourg, Athens, and Granada. In each case, the projects have been highly controversial. "


I think the first mention of Muslims demanding an airport mosque in the US that I heard of involved a California airport but it was a couple of years ago, at least, and I'm tired of looking through all the pages Google turned up. I'm sure you'll find more U.S. airport mosques if you do your own search.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. The Muslim's get "special prayer rooms"

because bigoted non-muslim passengers get upset when they see muslims praying in public. You present a perfect example.

If you want to look at praying being banned and religious discrimination, just look at what the muslims are going through.

[Bridget Burke]

75. Well, I was raised Catholic--although I attended public school.

The Baltimore Catechism (studied on Saturday at St Pius) didn't say the Angelus was compulsory--as Mulsim prayer is required. In fact, it was not mentioned. When were "traditional" Catholic children

The whole subject of the idiotic OP was how Christianity was being attacked in the USA. How does a mosque in Brussels relate? And where are the stories about demands for mosques in US airports?

Lots of rumors came out about the imams who were arrested. None were proven.

I'm sorry I insulted the inbred countryfolk. Quite a few xenophobes manage to look normal--then they say something & reveal their ugly secret.

[PA Democrat]

17. Dear Right Wing Cousins,

Get a real problem. No one is barring the doors to your church or forbidding you to pray to your God. You just don't have the right to force YOUR religious beliefs on everyone else.

There are plenty of things going on in the country and around the world that are outrageous. Fabricated persecution of your religious rights simply isn't one of them.

God bless you (see, no one is breaking down my door and arresting me for saying that).

[ChrisCat]

44. I really like this response.

I get right wing emails from my husband's aunt almost daily. I send her links to Snopes quite often and never get a response.

[Minnesota_Lib]

19. "Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God..." The statement of a delusional idiot.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. That e-mail is

no big deal. This thread describes a real big deal: right wing Christian extremists taking over the military.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3103069&mesg_id=3103069

The Dominionist movement is a big deal.

Your cousin's probably not that fanatical or he/she would have stopped communicating with you. Annoying, yes; fanatical, no.

[Laha]

21. I received a letter nearly identical to this one...

It was from my father and altered to apply to Canadian politics, I believe the American version is the original because the letter I received also contained references to the perceived illegality of trusting god due to the lack of the words appearing on our money. I have posted the letter I received and my response to my father in the Religion/Theology forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=107189&mesg_id=107189

Edited because I figured out how to link to my post

[zbdent]

23. The law is the law

so out goes Bush, too ... he broke the laws, he swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and then did amazingly unconstitutional acts ... point that out to this asshole ...

[zbdent]

24. Ask him if he remembers "Rule of Law"

and "No one, not even the President, is above the law" ...

[FedUpWithIt All]

25. Unless bush is breaking them.

:eyes:

[annabanana]

26. It's against the law to open private mail without a warrant.. . . . .n/t

[annabanana]

27. It's against the law to eavesdrop without a warrant. . . . . n/t

[annabanana]

28. It's against the law to imprison without charges. . . . n/t

[annabanana]

29. It's against the law to deny council. . . . .n/t

[leesa]

30. God, these people are boring.

[Balbus]

31. I'd stop being his/her cousin if I were you.

[hatrack]

33. If "the law is the law", ask for his opinion on Bush's "signing statements'

That should shut him up.

[bobbolink]

34. Yes, the law is the law. IMPEACH!!

Get those evildoers!

:evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

38. Remind your cousins that the law is not about majority - it is about constitutional

protections, which includes protection of minorities.

[rpgamerd00d]

39. Here is your reply

I agree.

Abolish the words "Under god" from money, and abolish the 10 Commandments from Govt property.
Abolish Christian Holidays.

Keep Thanksgiving, though, that isn't a Christian holiday, its an American one.

- Cousin

[mondo joe]

41. Easter? Since when is mail delivered on Sundays? NT

[BurtWorm]

43. I'd like all churches and religious organizations to be taxed.

That ain't gonna happen either.

[Hamlette]

45. I couldn't agree more, no way should Christmas be a government holiday

it's a religious holiday, not a secular one. If we did away with it the Christianists would scream to high heaven about how the government was ruining their holiday by making their kids go to school etc.

[Bill McBlueState]

67. Solstice should be the government holiday

Everyone gets the 21st off. Or, if you want, you can work on the 21st and take a different, nearby day off instead. School kids can start their vacations on the 21st and come back on January 2.

Everyone can celebrate the solstice. No matter which gods you think exist or don't exist, it's the shortest day of the year for everyone.

[Hamlette]

72. yes! All power to the people! It was our holiday before God stole it! n/t

[jelly]

46. I'll bite that bullet.

I am an atheist and I believe in separation of church and state. Declaring religious anniversaries as federal holidays has always struck me as something of an endorsement of religion. But if we did away with religious holidays and created nothing to take their place, many people would not have the leisure time throughout the year that they have grown accustomed to, time when they may regroup and refocus without fear of getting fired. What we need is a religion-neutral solution that would leave people with their much-needed leisure time. For instance, in lieu of federal holidays we can designate a certain number of work days during the year that people can use whenever they want. Since many Americans are Christians many would choose to use up their days on religious holidays anyhow, but those that are not religious would be able to take them off whenever they want. Nearly as important on a purely visceral level, it would get your right wing cousin to STFU.

At bottom I think there is a tacit understanding that federal religious holidays double as a secular allowance of leisure time to overworked Americans. Without the religious excuse to set aside those particular days, a need would arise for a purely secular institution to take the place of the religion-influenced one currently in place. Same thing goes for the institution of weekends including Sundays as being considered non-work days. I have no problem un-designating Christmas as a federal holiday as long as you preserve the right of human beings to take a certain number of days off during the work year to be human beings - ends in themselves, not means to an end.

[LeftishBrit]

48. Exactly!

Holidays are *not* just for religious purposes. It is, or should be, recognized that employees in general are entitled to a certain amount of 'time off'. This is not for purely religious reasons. If this were so, people would just get Christmas Eve and Christmas Day off, and in years when one or both of these fell at a weekend, would not be given another day off, as is customary at least here. They would not get days off that are not usually celebrated in a religious fashion, e.g. New Year.

The reason why holidays, religious and secular, are chosen for time off work has more to do with the fact that most people have family get-togethers on those days.

In fact, some jobs do give people a fixed number of days off per year and some flexibility as to when they take them, and I think that is great, and expect it will become more common.

According to their logic, then ONLY people who intend to go to church on Christmas and Easter and Sundays should get the day off, and everyone else should go to work. But that's not what they're saying.

And who has said that they can't go to church if they want to? And I doubt that many people are that fussed about religious messages on coins. (Ours don't say "In God We Trust", but do refer to the Queen as 'F.D.' = Fidei Defensor or Faith's Defender; a title that the Monarch inherits from Henry VIII, who was given the title in honour of his role as defender of the Catholic Church - just before he broke with it!) If I was religious, I might find religious messages on coins a bit blasphemous I suppose; but most people, religious or secular, are much more concerned about what the coins will buy than what messages are written on them.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

47. First mistake your cousin made was. . .

this:
"I say,"so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions."

I don't know how intelligent your cousin is, but s/he seems to be somewhat naive.

We all know that a lot of people in Washington are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

[porphyrian]

52. Stupid is stupid. At least one of the two can be changed. - n/t

[Ioo]

56. Your inlaw is an moron - He said Thanksgiving not a god day..

and we have a five day work week because if the UNION and FORD MOTORS

[mondo joe]

58. He also, apparently, thinks mail is delivered on Sunday normally but

not on Easter.

[DemBones DemBones]

63. No, he doesn't think that. Read it again

Here's what he or she said:

"Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His
Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and its
employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which
honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of
American life."

"I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving &
Easter.& nbsp; After all, it's just another day."

"I'd like the "US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday,
Thanksgiving & Easter as well as Sundays." After all, it's just another day."

"I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry
about getting home for the"Christmas Break." After all it's just another
day."

"I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all
government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.
It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day
of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct." "

[mondo joe]

64. He says mail shouldbe delivered on Easter. Easter is a SUNDAY.

Mail is not delivered on Sunday.

Easter is not a federally recignized holiday.

For that matter, neither is Good Friday - a day when mail IS delivered.

[DemBones DemBones]

69. Come on, read it again. He's not saying mail IS delivered on Sundays,

he's saying that since the government has removed prayer and the Ten Commandments from schools, banned the Ten Commandments from display in courthouse and other public buildings, why don't they go all the way and make government employees work on Sundays, including Easter Sunday.

He's saying he WANTS mail to be delivered on Sundays, not that mail IS delivered on Sundays. Of course, he doesn't really mean that, he's being sarcastic.

And I didn't write the letter so it's no use for you to tell me things I already know, such as that Easter and Good Friday are not federal holidays. I suspect the writer knows that, too, but didn't make himself clear. Mistakes in writing are not uncommon; some published writers write poorly.

[mondo joe]

71. I read it again. He says mail isn't delivered on Good Friday - which is false

- or on Easter. While the mail is indeed not delivered on Easter, the mail is NEVER delivered on Sunday.

He LATER in the letter says people should work on Sundays, as a separate point. But in any event, the writer was too stupid to recignize that neither day is a federal holiday.

That you persist in excusing him or her is your own flaw.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Your cousin does not know that the US Congress

met on Christmas day until 1901, if memory serves, does he?

By the by, sure, in Mexico the separation of Church and State is such that indeed the President cannot enter a church while serving, or at least could not
when I lived down there.

No problem there.

Perhaps you should give this cousin of yours a copy of the Jefferson Bible and watch him have a heart attack, literally

[DemBones DemBones]

70. You remember 1901?

:wow: And I thought I was old! :evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

73. I don't remember anything before the 1960's - does that mean I'm not expected

to know any history?

[Sapere aude]

78. How can you prevent someone from praying? What the want is to take us closer to theocracy.

[EstimatedProphet]

84. Bumblefuck jackass

1. It always was illegal for "In God We Trust" to be on our money BEFORE shitheels like this guy got worked up to show they weren't commies.
2. IT IS illegal to have the 10 commandments in a courtroom. So be it, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!
3. NO ONE is saying you can't pray, or trust in God, fucktard. You just can't use the government as a club against all the "heathens" that don't worship like you order them to.
4. You want the government to work on religious holidays? Then get off your fucktard shitheel redneck bigot ass and do something about it!
5. Sunday was originally named for the SUN, stupid. Just like Thursday was named for Thor. Are you going to go on a whining rant to have the days of the week renamed now?

My God, you're a stupid piece of shit.

[MindPilot]

86. Facts, people, facts

Gawd didn't show up on the money or the pledge until the mid-fifties.

The pledge was declared unconstitutional in 1942 because Mennonites didn't want to be required to pledge to anything.

The 1962 school prayer case was originally filed by Catholics who didn't want to be forced to say a protestant prayer.

If these godwad fucktards have to put ten of something on the courthouse wall, how about the Bill of Rights?

SO BE IT...

[B Calm]

87. excellent points. The so called war on Christmas was started by

them too.

[baldguy]

89. Nobody said *YOU* can't pray to your god, or put your trust in "him".

But since "Congress shall not make any law with regards to the establishment of religion," the US Government and it's various departments and agencies have no business praying to any deity.

It's a little idea called "freedom of religion".