I wasn't convinced Iran would be attacked... until last night. Now I am certain of it.

[helderheid]

I am absolutely terrified.

[billybob537]

1. Now commander PISSYPANTS

can be the first president to lose three wars at once.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. New nickname: Captain Queegmire! nt

[babylonsister]

2. Not me. * did one thing; he united lots of people against this current

escalation with his remarks about Iran and Syria. Watch the news; everyone is incredulous and the anger is there.

[helderheid]

5. see post 3

:scared:

[madrchsod]

16. well he`s united the aryan nations against him

the freepers are the only one`s left on the extreme right wing that support bush...

[Richard Steele]

3. Our troops raided an Iranian consulate right after his speech. That's a clear act of war.

[babylonsister]

8. I hadn't seen/heard that; must have been sleeping. Do you have a link? nt

[helderheid]

11. here

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=iran%20consulate&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

:scared:

[SaveElmer]

37. Looks like Idiocy of course...but that raid was in Iraq...

Not Iran...

I do not believe the military will support an attack into Iran...and will convince Georgie to back down

[helderheid]

38. apparently attacking it even in Iraq is considered an attack on Iran n/t

[yella_dawg]

40. By law, the Iranian Consulate *is* Iran

no matter what country lies outside its gates.

[Megahurtz]

49. That, it is. n/t

[hatrack]

45. Embassy and consular extraterritoriality aren't quite the same . . .

But under the Vienna Convention, consulates have most of the same elements legal status as embassies - i.e., they're considered territory of the nation operating them.

So basically, we did indeed attack Iran today.

[TahitiNut]

15. (Lots of them.) Here...

http://www.torontodailynews.com/index.php/WorldNews/2007011108iranian-embassy
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-raid.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/11/africa/web.0111raid.php
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6338350,00.html
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/1/11/worldupdates/2007-01-11T184357Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-283135-3&sec=Worldupdates

[helderheid]

31. thank you - will send those on

[TahitiNut]

18. It's worth repeating: The US Committed an Act of War against Iran!

Under international law, this is a causus belli. The US would treat it as an Act of War, without question, if it were US consulate.

[babylonsister]

21. Has this garnered any kind of attention from the Dems yet?

I must have overslept! Thanks for links.

[helderheid]

25. I've not heard word one yet.

[TahitiNut]

28. D'ya s'pose he told Reid and Pelosi yesterday? (Classified, though.)

I just don't count on profesional politicians inside the beltway (with some exceptions) to get out front of these abominations.

I remember "carpet of gold or carpet of bombs."
I remember Saddam admitting weapons inspectors and turning over huge volumes of data.

When these neocon/AIPAC fucks decide to invad, nobody has the guts to get in their way. We have lost all honor. We have become a nation of cowards and criminals.

[helderheid]

33. They are starting to say DO NOT attack Iran... I don't know if they know about this

[MistressOverdone]

4. For the first time I am thinking

of the possibility of a coup. Not saying I want one, just saying there is building frustration. Now, I'm of the impression that coups are usually brought on by more than just frustration, so maybe the elements are not all there.

[northernsoul]

19. Our military takes an oath

to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic]/i]


I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[Chomp]

7. Here we go again

Another panic thread about Iran attacks. Yet again people misreading Bush's desperate rhetoric as an actually meaningful ability to do anything about it.

Anyway, carry on, I'm blue in the face rubbishing these threads.

[iconoclastic cat]

10. How exactly are his words and actions being misread? nt

[helderheid]

13. see post 3

[Jacobin]

14. I sincerely hope you are right

I have my doubts though.

AEI controls the WH. PNAC is their blueprint and Iran and Syria are next after Iraq. Not ground troops, but a fullfledged aerial assault are in the making, IMHO

[atreides1]

23. Present your case

We'll listen.

[Parche]

26. panic thread?>

When a Country attacks another Countries consulate, that is considered an act of war.

[Zodiak]

41. Typical reaction from the pseudo-intellectual position of moderation by default

Basically, this country and world politics for that matter, have been stable for decades (unless, of course, you live outside of the West). As a result, people have become used to homeostasis; they have learned that when warnings arise, nothing ususally happens. Hence, when uncertainty about the future arises, they fall into the default position of "nothing much will happen" and, according to the results of their experience, they are more likely to be correct than not.

These are not times to have faith in homeostasis. Guessing that things will be okay and dismissing those that do not think it will be is a fool's gamble in the face of contrary evidence.

You will also notice that those who use this method of thinking (moderation by default) always come after their opponents with derision, ridicule, and the assertion that their opponents are little children who are ignorant of the "adult" way of things. This is an authoritative appeal that is bereft of fact or serious thought, but it is all to commonly displayed by a handful of DUers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

The most effective argument against the US's possible attack on Iran is that such a move would be incredibly stupid and we do not have the troops to do the job. Both are true. The contrary evidence is naval build-up, an attack on a consulate, saber-rattling in public speeches (most recently last night), accusation of ostensibly non-existant weapons programs, the arrest of Iranian diplomats, public commentary from politicians on both sides of the aisle that an attack is possible, previous plans to nuke Iran thwarted by military officials (who have just been changed), and acknowledgement by certain officials that covert operations have been on-going in Iran for over a year.

I would say the preponderance of the evidence points towards an attack at the least and war at the most...that is my honest assessment. I unfortunately cannot rule out BushCo being stupid and not acknowledging that a war with Iran cannot be won with our present strategic environment.

[Parche]

44. psuedo

So what are you saying here?

[Zodiak]

51. I am saying...

that when a person takes a position that is moderate and skeptical without thinking, that position is pseudo-intellectual. There is no critical thought involved, only a knee-jerk response that "everything will be alright" because everything has always been alright.

I understand that the term's connotation is derogatory, but in this case, its application is precise....a position that seems smart but in fact involves little thought.

And I most defintley was not referring to you with the term, but adding to the line of reasoning in your post that the poster you replied to was overly skeptical in the face of contrary evidence.

[hatrack]

47. We sent troops into their consulate, scattered stun grenades, arrested the staff . . .

Lowered the flag, closed the building and turned the keys over to the Kurds.

We already have attacked Iran.

Or do I need to spell it out for you in words of less than two syllables?

[Megahurtz]

50. Just Remember...

there's a First Time for everything!

[havocmom]

9. Add the fact that the junta is placing a carrier group within range of Iranian missles

and you will find more reason to sweat

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3094448

Place some big targets within range of ground based arms and then pick a fight.

Worked in Cuba years ago

Remember the Maine! and charge up the damned hill...

With only, what, 160,000 jobs created last month, they will need to find some way to occupy the young adults in America. Added benefit of taking the heat off the junta regarding investigations of past crimes - Congress will be too busy with an even bigger war on.

[Jacobin]

12. In some ways, Smirk has no choice but to widen the war

If he can distract enough of the population who is half asleep, by upping the ante, he can get a lot of flag waving freaks back on his side.

Also, AEI knows they have very very little time before the democrats control the WH and their wet dream of ME domination will be lost forever. Bush doesn't have to run for re-election, his administration is already screwed for all time anyway and Bush is so fricking dense and looking for an 'out', he very very well may play this.

I think he'll do it.

[LynzM]

17. Same here, helderheid.

:scared: :hug:

[madokie]

20. Yep me too. I think I hear that in the senators voices who are grilling the lying 'lizza

this has to be stopped.

[helderheid]

22. God I pray you're right!

[bobbolink]

24. Pretty depressing, isn't it?

I learned during the Vietnam era that this kind of depression is a lot of the reason why people don't want to be "convinced".

It doesn't feel very good. :cry:

[helderheid]

27. It is - but once you know the truth, you can't go back. It's sad my mommy list

only gets news from ME.

[bobbolink]

29. No, there's no "going back". Awareness sticks. But, be sure to smell the roses!

And, thanks for "educakating" those mommies! :thumbsup:

[helderheid]

30. I do my best! I try not to do it to the point that who I am is so loud that no one

can hear what I am saying. :)

[bobbolink]

39. Sigh... I hear ya on that. A wise person said to me recently, that

you give it your best and try to have the message come out as productive as possible.

But... you are only *part* of the equation.... you have no control over what people do with your words once they have left your mouth.

In other words, I'm trying to learn to forgive myself. :hi:

There are also circumstances that deserve our anger, so that muddies the water a bit, also.

Thanks for continuuing with this effort!

Wish I had a virtual rose for you to sniff... :toast:

[helderheid]

43. You are so sweet!

I think that is a universal struggle... forgiveness of ourselves... especially for those of us who are more sensitive than others.

:hug:

[TahitiNut]

46. Just remember - if we can't find it in our hearts to forgive ourselves ...

... we can never find it in our hearts to forgive others.

Here're a couple of "think-about-it's" that I've found are seminal ...
Remember,
if you're feeling guilty,
that means you'll do it again.
(That can be a tough one to "get" ... but it's true.)

You've spent your entire life
becoming the person you are now.
Has it been worth it?
(Think: Labor of Love.)


:hug:

[LSK]

32. Biden just flatly said Congress would not approve

[helderheid]

34. did you see post 3?

:scared:

[SaveElmer]

35. I don't think it will happen...not that Georgie wouldn't love too...

But I bet he gets such push back from the Military that he backs down...

[helderheid]

36. Apparently we already have... see post 3

[blues90]

42. I understand your terror

I honestly feel bush is pushing and advancing this attack on Iran because he and those behind this know full well the position of the congress and senate .

It seemed in a way last night during bushs address that they were in a way testing the waters to see just how far the house would go to stop him .

Since bush knew full well the house would be against this escalation and are set against funding any additional troops .

The scary part is bush at this point still can open another dangerous can of worms and it looks like he had his mind set on this before the address last night . The counsulate attack can easily turn onto a huge nightmare real quick .

[Megahurtz]

48. Me Too.

:scared::nuke: