Sheehan just called Feinstein a War Monger on Stephanie Miller

[stop the bleeding]

Stephanie was asking her about her plans for a Senate run.

Just thought you all should know

[Ovett]

1. thats a bit over the top

no chance she beats Feinstein.

[stop the bleeding]

2. not the point of the post - point was to show the vernacular Sheehan

is already using even though she has not even filed yet

[radio4progressives]

123. I've been calling DiFi a War Monger & War Profiteer since the start War

and so does every other political activist in the bay area i know...

Cindy didn't invent it, it is the vernacular on the streets and in the activists communities.

got a problem with telling the truth, going straight to the punch?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. Diane Feinstein....

is my representative.

Her office was FLOODED with 10s of thousands of calls, emails, and faxes from Californians begging her not to vote for the IWR -- she admitted this in the press -- and yet she voted for the IWR, against her constituents desires.

She is a war-monger.

And she deserves to be challenged for her seat, perhaps not by Cindy, but by someone who will be willing to listen to the people who put them into office.

[Ovett]

16. calling her a warmonger for voting for IWR is not rational

Kerry voted for the IWR too. there were many reasons for voting for it--the intelligence the Congress had was NOT the same that the Pentagon/Executive branch had... and there was also the argument for giving Bush maximum bargaining power at the U.N. and putting pressure on Saddam. Voting for the IWR and actually invading Iraq as Bush did are two different things.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. Read Robert Byrd's..

IWR speech on the floor of the Senate and then get back to me about just what the IWR was really all about.

She is a war-monger, as is Kerry and every Democrat and Republican who voted for that piece of crap legislation.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ryan_cats]

101. Insurance commision? Bring back Quackenbush!

Insurance commision? Bring back Quackenbush! He's tanned and rested in Hawaii on our dollar. With a name like Quckenbush, he's gotta be good. Good and corrupt.

I don't think it's a good idea to have Cindy do this if there's a chance she could split the vote and allow a thug in; is that possible?

[Coastie for Truth]

135. Santa Clara County

Ira Ruskin barely sneaked in against Poizner (from Texas, no less).

So, I think Cindy could split the vote - and it woulkdn't be for Tom Campbell or Steve Poizner -- more like Tom McClintock or Darryl Issa.

[ryan_cats]

164. Tom Mclintok, blech

Tom Mclintok, blech, that would be inexcusable to do something that leads to him getting in. He is one scary dude.

[TheFarseer]

90. do you havea link?

I'd like to read it.

[Sparkman]

124. NOTICE they NEVER talk about OIL. It was WMD, now ignored.

[karynnj]

134. People voted for a million different reasons

If you look at the information from the DSM, they were GOING TO WAR. Cheney didn't even want to wait to get inspectors in. Few people deserve the epithat, war monger. Kerry less than almost anyone. It's clear from his Senate statements that he really thought it was possible to negotiate with Bush. Bush agreed to changes that should have caused him to avoid war, but didn't honor them. Kerry called for not going to war before Bush invaded. His mistake was trusting Bush. But this is Bush's war, not Kerry's.

[EFerrari]

58. You're right. She should have called her a war profiteer. n/t

[katinmn]

148. You're so PC!

[EFerrari]

157. LOL! No, I'm a word nitpicker and in the worst way.

[G_j]

156. "war profiteer" is entirely accurate n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

71. The difference is

Kerry has admitted he was wrong and helping to change things. What is Feinstein doing? He even ran for president (and he did win) to change things.

[robcon]

175. Kerry didn't admit he was wrong.

He said during the campaign that he would vote that way again on the IWR.

[AntiFascist]

140. Since Feinstein is on the intelligence committee it puts her in....

a much more important position than many other senators, but since the intelligence has become increasingly manufactured as this administration "creates its own reality" it also makes Feinstein look increasingly like one of them.

[Generic Other]

171. Peddlers of War

A warmonger is, pejoratively, someone who is anxious to encourage a people or nation to go to war. It is often used to describe militaristic leaders, commonly with the implication that they either may have selfish motives for encouraging war, or may actually enjoy war.

By etymology a warmonger is literally a seller of war, from monger used as a transitive verb, meaning a peddler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmonger

[CrazyForKucinich]

33. Warren Beatty: We could have BULWORTH WOOHOOO!!!!

Beatty should run!

[Ladyhawk]

87. Yep, DiFi is a warmonger and needs replacing. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

70. Her husband's company is making money off this war

so it's perfect.

[abex]

133. a bit under the limit, actually. nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Stephanie "agree to disagree"

I didn't hear all Cindy said, because a customer called, but I did hear her say that she felt anyone who didn't call for immediate withdrawal was supporting the war. Steph said they would agree to disagree, after mentioning John Murtha and his plan for withdrawal.

[BlueStater]

4. I'm sorry but that's just two-faced

Cindy said she would not run if Feinstein voted against Alito and for the fillibuster. Yet now that Feinstein did both, she's going to run anyway?

I'm sorry but I just can't support her when she does these types of things.

[stop the bleeding]

5. she has not formally decided - Stephanie was just feeling her out

for what her plans are. Cindy did not sound that confident yet, but I thought that you all would like to see the strong language that is being tossed around. Sheehan is a wild card right now, it will be interesting to see how that card is played in this game.

[mattclearing]

9. Link? n/t

[sunnystarr]

186. It's referenced in this article

which may or may not be where poster 4 got it from.

Sheehan is at the other end of the spectrum, a vocal opponent of the Iraq war and a frequent critic of President Bush. She recently threatened to run against Sen. Dianne Feinstein if the California Democrat did not support a filibuster against Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/02/Worldandnation/Tempes...

[stop the bleeding]

197. thats my paper - awesome !

[mzmolly]

13. I don't like the black mail element either. I love most of what Cindy

does, but at times I admit I cringe.

Though, I can't say I'd act any differently if MY child died in this unjust/unnecessary/costly war.

An aside: Cindy has done more to fight terrorism than GWB by a long shot. OBL is NOW seperating the American PEOPLE from the American empire (provided the recent tape was legit.)

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

79. I thought she said

that she would run if Feinstein voted against the filibuster. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs but there is a difference.

[Steve A Play]

163. Do you have a link to where Cindy said she wouldn't run if DiFi

voted against Alito? I must have missed that.

You make the claim that she said it, and then you called her "two-faced" for not keeping her word. Now can you back your claim up with proof? I seriously doubt it because she never said that. She never said she spoke for anyone but herself but that doesn't stop people here from alleging that she 'claimed' to speak for them.

I was under the impression that she was considering running anyway, and she had said that if her representative, DiFi, didn't try to block the Alito nomination, that would make the decision to run for her. I don't ever recall her being quoted as saying anything remotely like 'she wouldn't run if DiFi voted against Alito'.

GOT PROOF?

Steven P.

[peaches2003]

6. However, Cindy...

I have all the sympathy in the world for Cindy and agree with so much of what she says. However, I think she or whoever is advising her do not see her 'limitations' as a candidate and as a spokesperson for those of us against the war and against Bush. Losing a son does not make you an expert on political matters and world affairs nor does it make you a viable candidate for the Senate of the U.S.

Cindy needs to gain some experience in a local office before she begins to believe she is ready for national office. I hate to say it, but she is beginning to hurt rather than help.

[earth mom]

15. Cindy is not hurting anything, so quit repeating that rethug meme.

I am getting really tired of hearing it.

Cindy would be better than 90% of the idiots in Congress-PUT TOGETHER!

Furthermore, Cindy does NOT need to get "experience" anywhere to do the job that few in Congress are doing in the first place. Most politicians had little experience, but they sure did have the cold hard cash and the connections in the good ole boy network to land the job. What a fricken racket! C'mon! Just look no further than Arnold!

Cindy speaks for the PEOPLE-the REAL middle class, not the DLC DINO version of it. Right now the neocon corporate bastards have this country by the throat and we need someone like her desperately!

Cindy ROCKS! Simple as that!

[FreedomAngel82]

72. She ONLY speaks for HER SON and the truth

[peaches2003]

81. Experience

She neds experience in campaigning, public speaking, economics, domestic issues of all kinds, foreign policy in areas other than Iraq, and on and on TO GET ELECTED. Hasn't it already been proven that a candidate needs more than what it takes to win a Dem. primary in order to win the election? Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for her, but liberal Dems cannot elect a Senator all by themselves and Cindy is going to have to show a lot more on the ball than she has so far to win not only a DiFi primary, but an election. You don't think the Chavez bit turned off a huge # of voters???

[niyad]

113. george bush, despite being governor of texas, demonstrated NO

capabilities in the areas you mentioned, most especially NOT foreign policy, etc., etc., and yet managed to steal the election anyway.

[peaches2003]

119. Bush had--

no brains and little experience, but degrees from Yale and Harvard whether earned or not, along with the $$$ of the Bush family and their corporate friends behind him plus the backing of almost every Republican office national officeholder and the bevy of Repub governors. And he was a 2 term governor which is a little more of a recommendation fir national office than being a Gold Star mother, no matter how sorry I feel for her. A far cry from the background that Cindy would have.

That's the trouble with some Democrats and recent history proves my point- you have to be able to get ELECTED! Moaning and whining as the minority is no fun anymore. And it wasn't when I was supporting McGovern and McCarthy either.

You are totally misunderstanding- I am not against Cindy, BUT we want to get candidates elected and an amateur rarely is going to win anything but maybe the occasional primary.

[Steve A Play]

189. Thanks for making our point for us!

If you keep voting for your representatives based on the flawed thinking that just because they have a degree, money, name recognition, or some perceived political experience, rather than basing your vote on the likelihood that they will actually represent you when they vote on legislation, then you will wind up moaning and whining in the minority anyway!

It doesn't take a genius to read a piece of legislation, confer with your advisers and constituents, and then vote the way the majority of your constituents ask you to vote. Cindy is more than qualified to do that and do it well, IMHO. DiFi has proved on more than one occasion that she will ignore the wishes of the majority of her constituents in favor of her political advisers, or her 'conscience' as she likes to call it. She gets away with it because of voters like you who will vote for the party over the person. Voting for the lesser of two evils only means you wind up with someone evil.

If you haven't figured out yet that both sides are playing a game against the middle and that you're nothing more than a pawn in their game if they can count on your blind party loyalty, then all I can tell you is get ready to spend eternity in the minority. Sticking with a candidate who has shown a constant pattern of abusing your trust simply because they share your party is like staying in an abusive relationship with your spouse just because you share the same last name. Staying in an abusive relationship to try and change it rarely ever works. If you file for a separation, your spouse might just try to change in order to woo you back. If they don't, do you file for a divorce or do you move back in and accept the abuse as normal because so many other people do?

If you like DiFi so much you're welcome to her. I've filed for a separation and think we should both see other people anyway.

The only way to win is not to play their game. I'm not playing their game any more. I'm holding my representatives accountable with the only weapon I have, my vote. I'm putting the Democratic Party on notice that they can no longer count on my party loyalty because I can no longer count on the loyalty of my party to the democratic ideals that I have always held. I can also no longer count on my Democratic representatives to vote like Democrats so what have I got to lose?

If the party is so worried about losing my vote then perhaps they should start attracting and promoting candidates like Al Gore and Cindy Sheehan instead of people like Jo(k)e Lieberman, DiFi and Jerry Springer.

Steven P.

[earth mom]

115. What's wrong with Chavez?

Oh yeah, now I remember...he's an enemy of the reich wing...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[peaches2003]

121. So what?

I don't care who he is the enemy of except that the majority of the VOTERS post-911 are not going to embrace an amateur candidate who is a fan of Chavez. Get real.

[earth mom]

180. How do you know what the majority of voters are going to do?

There is tremendous support out there for Cindy because what she is saying makes sense. People are sick of the war in Iraq, sick of being screwed over by the government and sick of the dem Senators who vote for Alito, vote for the bankruptcy bill, and who stand silent while Bush & Co ignores the citizens of New Orleans, etc., etc., etc.

[AZBlue]

138. And I'm getting very tired of hearing that it's a Republican meme

because it's not. The Republicans say she's a nut job, that she's a bad person, that she hates the soldiers, and all sorts of other lies. They don't say she's hurting the cause because they don't believe that there is a cause for her to hurt.

I do believe in her cause and I also know that what she says and does sometimes is hurting it. She does get in her own way sometimes. She's not a professional at this and she should seek someone advice from who is so she knows how to phrase things to get the most impact. Isn't her goal to gain support? To add to the number of people who want an end to the war? She needs to remember that goal at all times.

[earth mom]

173. No, Cindy shouldn't be "coached" or "brainwashed".

The minute the "minders" get a hold of her is the minute her message is twisted, distorted and no different than the lies and b.s. we are living with and suffering from now. Frankly, I've had enough of the smooth talking shysters in D.C.

Once again, I applaud Cindy for not only being true to what's in her heart and conscience but having the guts to speak truth to power.

[AZBlue]

179. Who said anything about coaching or brainwashing?

Don't put words in my mouth!

She doesn't have to change what she's saying, just (sometimes) the way she says it. There's a HUGE difference.

[earth mom]

181. So you don't like people putting words in your mouth...

how is that any different than what you want for Cindy?

[AZBlue]

193. One more time.

Putting words in people's mouth = twisting what a person says to fit your own agenda, not theirs. Taking their words and turns them into something else entirely different than what they really said or meant. That's what you did to me.

Helping them frame what they are saying = finding out what they want to say and accomplish and helping them put that into the best way possible to get the maximum benefit without changing their goals. It doesn't alter what they are saying, it improves it. It would help Cindy reach her goal of gaining more media attention and getting more people to support her, in this specific case, without changing the meaning, core, reasons, etc.

If you really don't know the difference and still don't see, I suggest you research marketing and public relations.

If you do know the difference and are just trying to give me a hard time, I'm not going to go over this again with you for your fun and games.

Have a nice day.

[earth mom]

196. I'm not playing games, but trying to make a point.

Sendero said it better in her reply to your post and I agree with her-most of us are tired of the canned political rhetoric-which is often confusing and thus off putting to the average person. It's time for some plain speakers, those who speak truth to power, in a language the average person can understand.

[AZBlue]

198. Why didn't you bother to read my reply to Sendero then?

[earth mom]

200. I did read it and I don't agree with you.

You insist Cindy must be marketed. I think she doing fine as she is, as do most people who support her.

Who are you planning on marketing her to? The DLC or the Rethugs? Because even if you you transformed her into a shined up, glossed over, dressed up, picture perfect "spokeswoman" they would still hate her because she speaks the truth and they don't want to hear the truth because it makes them look bad.

[AZBlue]

201. Okey dokey.

You don't have to agree.

(To answer your question, of course I wouldn't waste my time with R's - I think she could get a LOT more support and help from Joe-Average-American though. Fence-sitters, undecideds, people who are too lazy or busy to do anything yet, etc - that's a huge group that could be movivated without too much trouble, but no one targets them.)

[sendero]

191. Yes...

....but one could make a very convincing case that this sort of "help" is EXACTLY what sunk Al Gores campaign, and possibly Kerry's too.

Ever wonder if all the polled speech might wind up being ineffective? That those methods might drain all the passion and spontaniety out of the words and that voters pick up on that, that voters are tired of canned rhetoric?

I sure do.

[AZBlue]

194. Very true.

I think the Democratic Party and most of its nominees have done a horrible job of marketing and PR. It's abysmal.

To me, politics is 51% PR/marketing. What good is a great plan for social security/health care/getting out of Iraq/etc. if most of America doesn't know it exists? Despite the Republicans' determination to break the will and strength of the people of this country, it does still exist and is still the way to create change. PR/marketing gets a bad rep - it doesn't have to be based on deceit.

You have the Dems' way, which has been worthless lately. You have the Republican way, which is all lies and misleading information, which is disgusting. You have the option of not using any method to shape your message, which is ineffective.

But, it is possible to be both effective and honestly. There have been some nominees who have done it and I think they are starting to get it right - I'm not going to name names because I don't want to start a flame war over specific people and their merits (or lack there of) but I think the next Presidential campaign could be very successful if those methods win out. (If we stick to the same old same old, we're done IMHO).

[sendero]

204. I agree with you 100%....

.. how you explain your plans, your goals, your ideas and your methods is EVERYTHING.

It is easy to look upon PR as an artificial and unnecessary hindrance to discourse, but done properly, it is essential.

Now balance that with my first comment. Yes, knowing how to frame a plan/idea/goal is important, but draining the life blood out of everything you say is not the answer.

It's almost as if the "handlers" spend all of their time trying to make sure nothing that is said turns anyone off, rather than making sure everything that is said turns someone on.

I will name names! John Kerry's rhetoric has undergone a noticable shift in recent weeks. He's switched from the pedantic, nuanced style to a much more direct and quite exciting mode of speech. It is a hugely positive development IMHO, I'm not his biggest fan but I recognize achievement whereever I see it. If he keeps it up, he might be a contender again!

[meganmonkey]

7. Given what Feinstein's hubby does for a living, I think she's right

Army contract for Feinstein's husband Blum is a director of firm that will get up to $600 million

URS Corp., a San Francisco planning and engineering firm partially owned by California Sen. Dianne Feinstein's husband, landed an Army contract Monday worth up to $600 million.

The award to help with troop mobilization, weapons systems training and anti-terrorism efforts is the latest in a string of plum defense jobs snared by URS. In February, the firm won an army engineering and logistics contract that could bring in $3.1 billion during the next eight years.

Government contracting has come under increasing scrutiny by Congress and citizen groups, with critics decrying the political connections of firms winning lucrative jobs. Richard Blum, Feinstein's husband, serves on the company's board of directors and controls about 24 percent of the firm's stock,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic...

Anyone think this doesn't effect DiFi's political priorites? If so, I've got a bridge to sell ya...

[mzmolly]

19. OMG.

[faithnotgreed]

20. right on meganmonkey

absolutely right on

people just dont seem to take in the levels of corruption that exists with most every lawmaker
not all are so obvious but they surely arent all well-hidden either

basically the only ones i trust are john conyers or henry waxman or sheila jackson lee or zoe lofgren etc (please feel free to add to this list these are just ones off the top of my head). i like barbara boxer though i cant say i know enough to say definitively but she seems a good person

aside from that they are pretty much all involved in variations on the theme
why they arent called on it and voted right out of office can be attributed to public cynicism, shading the truth, and not enough truly decent and intelligent people running for office

i commend cindy for calling out people regardless of party affiliation. because our level of expectation is so low - and were fighting against such a vicious enemy - then i guess people dont want to hear her speak the real gut-wrenching truth of it all

[Pithy Cherub]

28. Abso-freakin-lutely! DiFi just used the profits to buy a $16.5 million

dollar house above Silicon Valley. Now where did the cash come from again...defense contracts through her hubby.

[meganmonkey]

31. Yep - no way in hell she paid for that with her salary!

[Don Claybrook]

56. Actually it's in San Francisco

This doesn't detract from your point at all, but it's in the Pacific Heights neighborhood of SF. That's the northwest corner of the peninsula that is the city of San Francisco.

[Pithy Cherub]

63. Yep, very close to Oracle Larry's.

Doesn't that overlook the valley? Been a while since I have been to the Bay area and am directionally challenged even here in southern Cali. Thanks for the clarification!

[Pastiche423]

109. Pacific Heights

is the home of the wealthy, (w/a few exceptions) such as Ray Dolby (Dolby Surround Sound), the Gettys, Danille Steele, Jessica McClintock, to name a few. It sits on a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay.

There is no way in hell DiFi could have afforded her new house w/o the war profits made by her husband, Richard Blum.

DiFi is a Warmonger!

[AntiFascist]

143. I've heard that the Carlyle Group conducts meetings...

in the conference room at the very top of the Transamerica pyramid. Certain aspects of SF are not all that liberal.

[diamidue]

183. Could be.

I don't know if the Carlyle Group itself has offices in the Transamerica building. But I do know that Feinstein's husband, Blum, was partial owner of an engineering & planning company called URS. URS acquired EG&G (a defense co.) from the Carlyle Group a couple of years ago. URS has offices in the Transamerica building & they often use the very top of the Transamerica pyramid to hold meetings.

Blum left URS in November.

[AntiFascist]

184. A HA ! I didn't even know about that connection. n/t

[mdmc]

84. didn't know this

tanks...

[Lars39]

89. A lot of people don't.

Somehow that info has really skated under the wire. Puts some of her votes in context, doesn't it?

[Sparkman]

110. I could never figure out why DiFi seemed so Repub lite? Closet war-

profiteer! You war profiteers, here on DU, won't come out of the closet either. You need to be outed!!

[Radical Activist]

128. So she's a war profiteer too

Interesting.

[Steve A Play]

129. Thank you meganmonkey!

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

DiFi is history as far as myself and many of her constituents are concerned. If I walk into her office with a petition bearing the signatures of 10,000 of my family, friends, and neighbors, (her constituents) at the same time as a lobbyist bearing a $10,000 check for her reelection campaign, who do you think will be granted "face time" with her to talk about our concerns? (HINT! I'm still waiting for something more than an 'auto-response' letter from her office!)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read some of the posts here fretting about Cindy Sheehan's "lack of experience" to become a representative of "The People". We've got a pResident that can't even act Presidential, an actor pretending to be our "Governator", and "representatives" who only act in their own self interests because they know we're too busy being more angry at the 'other party' to worry about losing our votes because we're angry at them.

It's all a game to them. To quote the W.O.P.P.E.R. computer in the movie 'War Games',

"Strange game. The only way to win is not to play the game"

It's time to get some real people in power and the powerful out of Washington!

Life is not a game. Government in not a game. I'm done playing their game.

BYE  BYE  DI  FI!
SHEEHAN for SENATE

P.S., About that bridge for sale, I have a few leads downthread. Do I get a 'finders fee' if I broker the deal for you?

Steven P.

[SaveElmer]

10. Ms. Sheehan has jumped the shark....

As far as I am concerned.

[meganmonkey]

11. For what, speaking the truth?

Feinstein's husband is a war profiteer, plain & simple (and available in the public record).

You don't think this effects DiFi's politics?

[tatertop]

17. One tough crowd. Someone actually speaks up and they whine

What do they want? If Cindy runs I am sending her a nice
check and letter of total support. I support her 100%

[SaveElmer]

23. Working for a defense contractor...

Does not make one a war profiteer, and it certainly does not make his wife a warmonger...

Secondly, her recent comments about Bill Clinton and Iraq sanctions, her cozying up to Hugo Chavez, and many of her other statements I flat out disagree with, and I do not think the Democratic Party should be embracing her.

[Ovett]

25. agreed. plus she is not qualified to be a senator. n/t

[Binka]

35. Why? Sessions, Santorum, Kyl, Hatch, Cornyn, Chamblis

Are all sitting Senators, and they are all as useless and stupid as tits on a hog...can you explain why Cindy is not qualified? Why would you begin posting on a DEMOCRATIC board with such a negative opinion about one of our FAVORITES? I am indeed curious?

[Ovett]

47. Does she have any experience in government?

Objectively speaking I don't see how she is qualified to serve in the Senate. She should run for local office or state legislator or something. I am all for her protesting the war, but I think she is getting ahead of herself thinking that she should be in the U.S. Senate. Also, calling Feinstein a "warmonger" is evidence of her maybe being a little out of touch. Is everyone that voted for IWR a warmonger? Kerry is a warmonger?

[EFerrari]

61. If you don't know that Dianne is defense contracts,

then you are out of touch.

And, why should we leave elected office for the ruling elite? What the heck kind of progressivism is that?

lol

[Binka]

73. No Shit Beth I Feel Just A Tad Bit Patronized

Mr Ovaltine obviously knows what is good for us...sigh...WHY am I such a ninnyconpoop? Cindy should learn to behave.

[EFerrari]

139. If I hear "Cindy" and "behave" again in the same sentence

I'm going to bust this place up.

[Ovett]

96. So you give Feinstein zero credit?

You believe that Feinstein voted for IWR so her husband could cash in? You have no real evidence of this assertion other than it fits in with your general distrust of the ruling elite. Sheehan is free to run for the Senate, I just stated my opinion I don't think she is very qualified.

[EFerrari]

136. Zero is a generous estimate of the fault that I assign to

Diane Feinstein. Millions of people knew better. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands tried to communicate with her before that vote. She is either massively stupid and should not hold public office or she is willfully stupid, and for profit, and should not hold public office. I tend to think the later. It is no small thing to land the contract to build Centcom.

Feinstein owes her political career to a right wing crackpot who killed two of San Francisco's most beloved public servants. We knew exactly where Dianne comes from and how she got where she is today.

And as you don't know me, you have no way to measure my trust or mistrust of anyone.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

[Ovett]

141. link on that?

"Feinstein owes her political career to a right wing crackpot who killed two of San Francisco's most beloved public servants. We knew exactly where Dianne comes from and how she got where she is today."

[EFerrari]

144. Here's the Wiki entry for Harvey Milk. The refs at page bottom

have primary sources.

Btw, I was in City Hall during this whole episode. At 19, it made a profound impression on me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk

[Sparkman]

112. IS IT RUDE TO ASK DUer "war profiteers" to come out of the closet?

That might explain why so many here have had problems with the anti-war activists here? If their family earns their money from the war industry, AND they have PATRIOTISM ISSUES with those of us who have demonstrated against the war, publically revealing our anti-war work, then it might be helpful in explaining their bias.

[EFerrari]

137. Maybe splitting hairs, but I distinguish between actual profiteers

like Feinstein who used her influence to push this nation into war and then capitalize on that situation, and people who need to feed their family. I grew up in Silicon Valley, and although my family didn't work defense contracts, most everybody else's did. These were workers, not policy buyers and sellers.

[Sparkman]

169. EXACTLY right...I agreed earlier post too. CEO's get 500 times employees

AND the average defense plant worker on the line makes 40K - 60K per year for 50 hours a week.
The average CEO...MILLIONS OF DOLLARS each and every year...crime families in the tradition of Mafia, Noestra Familia, and the Bush banker feeding off of the Nazis early in 1940's. FACT.

[uppityperson]

107. she hasn't said she is running

so why are people assuming this? She said a 1-off statement to Feinstein. That is all.

[meganmonkey]

26. "Working for" is different than "owning a quarter of"

"Richard Blum, Feinstein's husband, serves on the company's board of directors and controls about 24 percent of the firm's stock"

I think this pretty much defines 'war profiteering', actually.

If being a Democrat overrides facing the truth about our elected leaders regardless of the (D) or (R) after their names, well, I guess I am glad to be a registered independent.

[SaveElmer]

32. Are you saying we do not need Defense Contractors...

Are you saying because someone is in a position of responsibility at a defense contractor there is something inherently wrong with that? DO you have any evidence that Diane Feinstein's husband is guilty of any malfeasance, or has in any way sought to prolong war to make money...

Or are you simply using the time honored Republican tactic of guilt by association?

[meganmonkey]

52. What I see is a blatant conflict of interest.

Plain and simple. We accuse Cheney of it all the time with his Halliburton connections. Why shouldn't we at least examine these connections as well?

I will, with difficulty, refrain from using the time honored traditions of not-so-subtly questioning other people's intentions. I seek truth and peace, and nothing else.

[SaveElmer]

54. Cheney was an officer at Halliburton...

Do you have any evidence whatsoever of any malfeasance on the part of Diane Feinstein or her husband. Are you saying that spouses of public servants should give up their employment because is may conflict with the duties of their spouse?

[meganmonkey]

62. No, I am saying nothing of the sort

What I am saying is that a party who doesn't believe in war-for-profit shouldn't elect someone with a war profiteer spouse to begin with, and I would support replacing her with a peace-loving candidate.

[SaveElmer]

64. So by extension then...

Any Democratic candidate with a spouse working for a defense contractor, in your view, is not fit to hold national public office?

[meganmonkey]

67. As I said in post #26

There is a big difference between 'working for' and owning 24% of a company.

but IMO, I do NOT think any candidate of any party should have such strong financial connections to an industry which has as it's main purpose destruction and violence. It may call itself the 'defense' industry but it has been a mighty long time since it has been used for the defense of anything other than its own profits.

Fortunately, I do not even have to make the choice not to vote for Ms. Feisntein since I don't live in California.

[SaveElmer]

74. Thanks for clarifying your position...

I do happen to disagree with it. Certainly defense contractors are in business to make money, but in the interaction I have had with many who work for them, and having worked for one myself for a couple years, I believe most think they are also doing worthwhile work.

This is not to say I don't think there is graft and corruption in the defense industry, and that there are those involved who hype the necessity for war to maximize their profits. There are!

All I am saying is that simply because Diane Feinstein's husband is an officer in one of these companies that it does not make him corrupt, dishonest, or that it makes Diane Feinstein a warmonger.

[AZBlue]

146. Aw, come on, you know the rules!

You are pure evil and will not be allowed to run for office if:

1) your net worth is over $857.00 (the rich can not hold all the power);
2) you have a relative, neighbor, college roommate or friend from jazzercise class who has ever held public office, including town dog catcher (that would be nepotism); or
3) you have a relative who is in the defense or pharmaceutical industry, have ever taken a self-defense class, or use pharmaceuticals yourself (you obviously have ulterior motives).
4) If you somehow are in office and any or all of the above applies to you, you're obviously a Republican mole.



And you call yourself a Democrat, SaveElmer? Sheesh!

[SaveElmer]

151. Oh...and don't forget...

If you have the letters D. L. or C. anywhere in your name, you are also disqualified.

[AZBlue]

161. Oh no! The word that should not be said aloud!

Good thing you listed it as separate letters or you might be struck down immediately!!

[Sparkman]

118. SPECIAL INTERST CONFLICT, like war industry stocks should be PUBLIC

and be DISCLOSED by those in public office, OFTEN AND LOUDLY. Feinstein has not made it absolutely clear that she has a conflict of interst when HUGE contracts are enjoyed by her ties to war companies.
THAT DISCLOSURE is just good citizenship, and democracies deserve and depend on an INFORMED ELECTORATE.

[SaveElmer]

127. Have you looked at her financial disclosure statements?

I have heard no intimation that she has not complied with every disclosure required of her...and the fact that her husband works for a defense contractor is well known.

[Sparkman]

131. She should have declared them up front, publically, honest leadership

not SECRECY and those obscure financial statements. AND ask ourselves why she hasn't been up front, because it would be EMBARASSING politically? And, no I haven't read them. Her 1040s should also be public knowledge, like any national politician's should be public knowledge.
www.public-official's-tax-returns.com is my requirement for a modern democracy

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Being married to a war profiteer and voting for a war makes her a warmonge

Bill Clinton DID support and participate in murderous sanctions.

Why shouldn't she "cozy up" to Hugo Chavez?

When has the Democratic Party "embraced" her?

[SaveElmer]

39. Tierra...

You and I had this discussion before...it is obvious you are not going to change your views...and that is fine by me.

However...in my view you are wrong on all counts.

[Coastie for Truth]

192. SANTA CLARA COUNTY WARMONGERS

GET EFFING REAL!

SANTA CLARA COUNTY IS A BLUE COUNTY

SANTA CLARA COUNTY ("SILICON VALLEY" - APPLE, INTEL, ORACLE, STANFORD, SAN JOSE STATE, SANTA CLARA UNIV., ETC) WAS BUILT BY DEFENSE CONTRACTORS

LOCKHEED MARTIN
VARIAN
EG & G
STANFORD LINEAR ACCELERATOR
SRI AND ON AND ON AND ON ...

AB INITIO SANTA CLARA COUNTY WAS A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR COLONY.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO WRITE US WAR MONGERS OFF TO THE GOP?

[MadHound]

43. Yes, working for a defense contractor does indeed make one a

War profiteer, or worse yet, as it was put so succintely years and years ago, a merchant of death. And voting for the IWR, if direct opposition of her constituents' wishes, along with her continued support of the war, does indeed make DiFi a warmonger.

And frankly, Sheehan's comments about Bill Clinton were spot on. Over 500,000 innocents dead, due to sanctions and thrice weekly bombings. Interesting that this is when the support for Sheehan began to wane around here. God forbid that someboy legitimately criticizes the Big Dog here, it brings down the wrath of the Clinton worshippers on their heads immediately.

And frankly, I find her meeting with Chavez encouraging. It means that she's got status in the world at large, not just domestically.

But don't worry, the Democratic party won't embrace Sheehan. Can't have those pesky "loose cannons" running around telling the truth. It makes the rest of the party look bad

[SaveElmer]

50. You are wrong on all counts...

Defense Contractors are not merchants of death....most contractors are honest people doing a good and necessary job. They get a bad reputation because of the crooked and immoral activites of some of them (Halliburton etc)

Sheehan was wholly and reprehensibly ignorant as to sanctions. Saddam Hussein was completely responsible for the misery incurred by his citizens. Not only could he have simply complied with the complied with the conditions of the U.N. resolution at any time, he could have made honest use of the loosening of restrictions that occurred to provide food and other necessaries.

Are you saying all defense contractors are merchants of death? Are you saying that we do not need defense contractors?

[MadHound]

75. We need defense contractors, but to a very limited extent

And our current defense industry surpassed that limit about fifty years ago. Now the defense industry is engaged in selling arms to both sides, getting their bought and paid for congress men to engage the US in armed conflicts just so they have business, and putting their boys in elected positions throughout the government, just so they can receive such niceties like no-bid contracts, and tap those black box budgets. Yes, they are indeed merchants of death, and been such for a long while. It was Eisenhower who warned the US about these dangers when speaking against the military industrial complex. Sadly, it has only gotten worse since.

And how was Saddam "completely responsible" for the sanctions being imposed in the first place? How was he "completely "responsible" for the US sending bombing raids into Iraq up to three times a week, killing innocent men, women and children for no good reason? How was Saddam responsible for the US opposing the advice of the UN Security Council to loosen sanctions, and instead having the US tightening them even further?

Yes, I realize that Saddam played politics with the food distribution, and this did indeed lead to the deaths of some of the population. But compared with the actions of the US and the UN, this number pales significantly.

And now, here we are, with the merchants of death in charge, living large. No bid contracts, new armament to construct to replace that which is destroyed, more ammunition, more more more. All in pursuit of an illegal, immoral war. When will it in, and when will we hold the death dealers responsible? Probably not anytime soon, since such "liberals" like DiFi insiste we must continue this war. You don't think that qualifies her as being a warmonger? I certainly do, especially since her family's fortune is pegged at 26 million dollars. Wonder how much of that comes from her husband, my bet is quite a bit, big money in the death dealing business. And it is absolutely amazing how well she lives with herself, sitting on all of that blood money.

[SaveElmer]

77. Part of what you say is true...

The defense industry is bloated, and there are some who are corrupt. I never argued otherwise. All I am saying, absent any information or evidence that Diane Feinstein's husband was in any way guilty of malfeasance, corruption, or any evidence that he actively tried to prolong war for his own gain, I think it is the height of irresponsibility to imply, simply because he is a successful executive at one of these companies, that therefore Diane Feinstein is a warmonger. It is the type of guilt by association Republicans employ constantly.

Second, Saddam continually played a cat and mouse game with allied forces after the gulf war, firing missiles at allied planes, locking in on them with radar etc. Again, had he complied with the conditions of the sanctions, all of this could have been avoided.

The U.S. was rightly concerned that some of the materiel that was a part of this loosening had dual use as military weaponry. The U.S. did eventually go along, and Saddam was given more than enough resources to take care of his people. He did not.

[MadHound]

85. The fact that he is making money off of an illegal, immoral war

Makes him a merchant of death. And that he is getting some plum contracts, while being married to DiFi looks mighty suspicious. From the SF Chronicle:

"URS Corp., a San Francisco planning and engineering firm partially owned by California Sen. Dianne Feinstein's husband, landed an Army contract Monday worth up to $600 million.

The award to help with troop mobilization, weapons systems training and anti-terrorism efforts is the latest in a string of plum defense jobs snared by URS. In February, the firm won an army engineering and logistics contract that could bring in $3.1 billion during the next eight years."
More here<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic... >

He owns twenty four percent of this companies stock, and is on the board of directors. Yes, the man has the blood of innocent Iraqis on his hands. And meanwhile, DiFi keeps backing the war to the hilt. As Arsenio used to say, "things that make you go hmmmmm"

And exactly how many of those missles that Saddam fired at coalition forces actually did damage? Caused death? Wounded somebody? And why shouldn't the Iraqis have had the ability to lock onto aircraft with their radar, didn't they have the right of self defense? After all, in 1992, Iran flew a military sortie over Iraq, killing Iraqis. The US didn't interfere with the Iranians, therefore the Iraqis should be able to protect themselves, including identifying aircraft in their sovereign airspace.

Look, I realize that the love of Clinton runs deep around here, but if you honestly look at what he did in Iraq, you will find it to be a humanitarian crime. Many respected people, including George Galloway and Noam Chomsky still consider it to be such to this day. And sadly, we're now compounding that with this illegal, immoral war, which Feinstein's husband is profitting from, quite handsomely too.

[SaveElmer]

86. So you have no evidence...

Of any kind with regards to Diane Feinstein's husband.

And no, after the war and until they complied with the conditions of the sanctions, Iraq did not have the right to feign attack on allied aircraft in the no fly zones. They forfeited that right by their aggressive moves against Kuwait and their threats against Saudi Arabia.

If you truly believe that Bill Clinton was responsible for the murder of half a million innocents, do you propose he be brought up on war crimes charges?

[MadHound]

91. Gee, I gues you didn't read my quote, or follow the link

Or that you're just fine with somebody making obscene amounts of money off of an illegal, immoral war, eh?

And you think that the Iraqis should have just rolled over and continue to let Iran bomb the hell out of them? For that is what would have happened, because the US damn well wasn't going to stop Iran. And there is a huge difference between locking on with a radar(ID device) and feigning an attack.

And yes, Clinton should be brought up on charges for his actions there. Killing that many innocents is just wrong. And judging from who has said the same, I'm in pretty good company.

[SaveElmer]

93. Did Iran attack in the no fly zones?...nt

[SaveElmer]

95. Again no evidence whatsoever...

Would you consider Defense contractors who produce body armor, or kevlar helmets war-mongers?

[MadHound]

99. To answer both your posts at once

No, the Iranians were not within the no fly zone.

Secondly, don't set up straw man arguements. DiFi's husband's company isn't in the business of producing kevlar or body armor. Their contract was for "troop mobilization, weapons systems training and anti-terrorism efforts" Sounds like blood is indeed on their hands friend. And the longer the war goes on, the bigger their profits, and the larger DiFi's bank account grows. Blood money friend, blood money.

You may be able to make up excuses and rationalize these matters, but I can't, nor can any honest thinking person. And I applaud Cindy for bringing these issues to light. This kind of war mongering and war profiteering is wrong, no matter who is doing it. We shouldn't be hypocrites and give somebody a pass merely because they belong to our party. That is one issue that has caused many problems in the past, and probably will do so in the future.

[SaveElmer]

100. Sorry...you are wholly unpersuasive...

At its base this is an ad hominem attack on a member of congress based upon the line of work their spouse is engaged in. That is not sufficient evidence to accuse someone of warmongering.

To make a leap based on a one line description of the contract is ridiculous.

Troop mobilization...specifically what does that entail as it relates to this contract?

Weapons Systems Training....well god forbid we would want the soldiers to be familiar with the weapons they use. Again you have no idea what these weapons are, or what kind of training they entail

Anti-terrorism efforts...you have no idea at all what this entails. Is it within Iraq, Afghanistan?

[MadHound]

103. No, if you would read my posts,

You would find that I'm basing my accusation of DiFi's warmongering upon her own actions, voting for the IWR, and continuing to support and finance the war even after it has been shown to be based upon many lies.

And frankly I find any company to be merchants of death if they are indeed profiting off of this illegal, immoral war. And URS seems to be making out just fine, funded with the blood of both innocents and our soldiers.

And yes, I find it mighty suspicious that DiFi is hawking the very war that is making her husband, and her, all that much more wealthy. In fact I find it down right obscene.

Just because somebody is a Dem doesn't, or at least shouldn't give them a free pass.

[Sparkman]

117. Defense contractors who spew hate towards activists? What about them?

Cindy is a solid citizen, Attacking Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH SADDAM, it is about permanent U.S. military bases in the middle east, about OIL. OIL is the reason, not about WMD, or "attrocities" due to 10 years of U.S. sanctions, or about his not lying down and taking it up the ass by the U.S. corporate energy industries and their military wing. IMPERIALISM, is on the march...the U.S. supports dictators, even Saddam, when they do business OUR way.
ECONOMIC HIT MEN have been outing themselves and exposing how they go into countries to make deals for the U.S. foreign office, paving the way to take loans and endebting their country to the world bank or the U.S., then only to be forced into selling the U.S. OIL, GAS, cheap labor and cheap natural resources at artificial prices.

[Sparkman]

116. if a defense employee protests the war(s), publically, they're OK with me.

Its those who support ALL wars, any place in the world that need confronting. That intrenched group that makes policy, owns Halliburton stock, and works for a defense contractor all the while spewing hate for those of us in the anti-war movement, that can't be excused.
IF you let all of your fellow employees know that you're against these wars of aggression, and you get denied raises and promotions or even fired and black listed...then you're on the right side regarless of who pays your bills.

[Mike Daniels]

102. Her toadying up to Chavez will sink any hope she has of signficant office

outside of dog catcher and even that may be beyond her grasp.

That picture of her and Chavez along with her comments regarding the news coverage ignoring her during the hurricanes and no small number of other priceless soundbites would be in play as soon as she announced her intent.

[katinmn]

160. Working for a defense contract does make you a war profiteer

If you are making money off the war, you are a war profiteer.

Might not want to hear it, but it is a fact and you can't sugar coat it.

[WilliamPitt]

18. You talk about her like she's a TV show or a fad

Pretty gross.

[SaveElmer]

27. Well Will...

If you are offended by that term I apologize. However, the term implies a lack of credibility and effectiveness. She has gone from being a sympathetic figure simply trying to find out why her son had to sacrifice his life, into an ill-informed crusader for many far left causes. I thought her statement that Bill Clinton was responsible for more deaths in Iraq than George Bush to be reprehensible, her recent cozying up to Hugo Chavez further reduces her credibility in my eyes...and flaming statements like the comments made this morning about Diane Feinstein to be simply wrong and ignorant.

I do not begrudge her right to say all those things, and fight for whatever causes she believes in, but in my mind she is losing credibility w