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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:11 PM
Original message
Poppy Bush brought up JFK Assassination and ''Conspiracy Theorists'' at Ford Funeral
From The New York Times transcript:



George H.W. Bushs Eulogy for Gerald R. Ford

The New York Times
Published: January 2, 2007

Following is the transcript of the eulogy for former President Gerald R. Ford delivered today by former President George H.W. Bush in Washington, as recorded by The New York Times.

EXCERPT

After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy, our nation turned to Gerald Ford and a select handful of others to make sense of that madness. And the conspiracy theorists can say what they will, but the Warren Commission report will always have the final definitive say on this tragic matter. Why? Because Jerry Ford put his name on it and Jerry Fords word was always good.

A decade later, when scandal forced a vice president from office, President Nixon turned to the minority leader in the House to stabilize his administration because of Jerry Fords sterling reputation for integrity within the Congress. To political ally and adversary alike, Jerry Fords word was always good.

SOURCE:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/washington/02cnd-ford...



In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush named a suspect to the FBI in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas. Skeptics need not take my word for it, that's what Poppy told the FBI:



Here's a transcript of the text:



TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #




Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?

Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.

Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?



Here's a transcript of the above:



Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #



Odd how Poppy Bush didnt bring up his own role in Watergate:



George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography

by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

Chapter -XII- Chairman George in Watergate

EXCERPT

Later on Nixon's last Monday, Bush joined White House Counsel J. Fred Buzhardt and Dean Burch on a visit to Congressman Rhodes, and showed him the transcript of the smoking gun tape. "This means that there's just no chance in the world that he's not going to be impeached," said Rhodes. "In fact, there's no chance in the world that I won't vote to impeach him." Bush must have heaved a sigh of relief, since this is what he had wanted Rhodes to tell Nixon to get him to quit. "Rhodes later let it be known that he was offended that Bush had been briefed before he was," but of course, Bush was a top official of the Nixon White House. (fn 54)

SNIP

During this cabinet meeting, Bush was already carrying a letter to Nixon that would soon become the unkindest cut of all for Chariman George's wretched patron. This letter was delivered to Nixon on August 7. It read as follows:

    Dear Mr. President,

    It is my considered judgment that you should now resign. I expect in your lonely embattled position this would seem to you as an act of disloyalty from one you have supported and helped in so mnay ways. My own view is that I would now ill serve a President whose massive accomplishments I will always respect and whose family I love, if I did not now give you my judgment. Until this moment resignation has been no answer at all, but given the impact of the latest development, and it will be a lasting one, I now firmly feel resignation is best for the country, best for this President. I believe this view is held by most Republican leaders across the country. This letter is much more difficult because of the gratitude I will always have for you. If you do leave office history will properly record your achievements with a lasting respect. (fn 56)


During Bush's confirmation hearings for the post of CIA Director in December, 1976, when it became important to show how independent Bush had been, Senator Barry Goldwater volunteered that Bush had been "the first man to my knowledge to let the President know he should go." That presumably meant, the first among cabinet and White House officials.

SNIP

But there are many indications that Bush was in reality someone who, while taking part in the fray, actually helped to steer Watergate towards the strategic outcome desired by the dominant financier faction, the one associated with Brown Brother(s), Harriman and with London. As with so much in the life of this personage, much of Bush's real role in Watergate remains to be unearthed. To borrow a phrase from James McCord's defense of his boss, Richard Helms, we must see to it that "every tree in the forest will fall."

SOURCE:

http://www.tarpley.net/bush12.htm



Gee. That would make two the number of removed presidents Gerald Ford and George Poppy Bush were somehow involved in.

Regarding Gerald Rudolph Ford: I do know the guy was J Edgar Hoover's "man" on the Warren Commission, reporting the proceedings to the FBI's director and Kennedy nemesis. Ford also used information he learned as a commissioner -- info that was supposed to be secret -- to paint Oswald as the "pro-Castro lone nut" in "Portrait of the Assassin" way before the commision's investigation was finished.

Regarding George Herbert Walker Bush: I don't know if Poppy was a trigger man, was only there to watch what happened or what just happened to be there. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He's never explained why he didn't warn the Secret Service or the FBI BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed. Seeing how he would go on to become President, as would his dim son, I believe it's vitally important that we learn the Truth.

Guess which is the Magic Bullet?



The Warren Commission case hinges on the undamaged bullet, found on a stretcher in Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas that was not used to transport either JFK or Gov. Connolly. The case, in reality, is a Big Lie.

Hey, Poppy! Read my lips! Youre a liar. And thats no conspiracy theory. Thats fact.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Seeing the coffin and Death in front of him Poppy's concious
is getting to him... Papers TV reporters and Government can say Oswald killed Kennedy but the majority believe otherwise

thats got to get Bush... that all the propoganda all the rewriting of history isn't going to change people's minds

History is what has been WITNESSED
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, the hard old man is showing some cracks in the facade
But I expect Babs would hold a pillow over his face as he slept before she would let him get to the point he snaps and tells.

Suddenly, he sees than neither he nor his horrid monster spawn are immortal. They, too, have limited time and then no control over what gets said over their sorry corpses. The old man looked to be pleading for mercy today to my jaded old eyes.

Mercy? He gets none. His failings have destroyed too much. He seems to be seeing that now. Good. Karma is a bitch for some.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. ''History is what has been WITNESSED.''
Exactly.

Regarding Bushes and secrecy:



Watergate Weighs on Todays White House

by Peter Wallsten
Published on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times

EXCERPT...

As Republican Party chairman, George H.W. Bush flew across the country defending Nixon against the growing public sentiment that the president was not being truthful.

Taped conversations between Bush and Nixon reveal Bush's skepticism toward the news media. In one 1973 exchange, transcribed in Kutler's book, Bush assured Nixon the country was with him, "in spite of some of the crap you're reading."

In a July 1974 letter to his sons, Bush extolled Nixon's virtues and laid out his faults. But he kept returning to one conclusion: "I can understand the President's hostility towards press for they despise him," Bush wrote.

Bush later was among the first to tell Nixon he should resign.

Years later, Bush's anger toward the press showed itself when the Washington Post's Bob Woodward, who forged the relationship with Felt and drove much of the newspaper's Watergate coverage, requested an interview with the former president. Bush declined.

"I think Watergate and the Vietnam War are the two things that moved beltway journalism into this aggressive, intrusive 'take no prisoners' kind of reporting that I can now say I find offensive," Bush wrote Woodward in a 1998 letter. "The new young cynical breed wants to emulate you. But many of them to do that question the word and the integrity of all in politics. It is almost like their code is 'You are guilty until proved innocent.' "

Under President George W. Bush, leaks are kept to a minimum and White House officials are rarely off-script. The president often criticizes reporters' use of anonymous sources, although his administration regularly makes officials available under the condition that they be identified only as a "senior administration official."

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0607-01.htm



Thank you, lovuian. Truly appreciate your understanding.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
129. Do you think that's true, about Poppy

telling Tricky Dicky it was time to go? I always heard it was Barry Goldwater who told him his time was up, though I think the story was that Barry led a Senate delegation.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #129
183. ''... Some story would reinvigorate that period.''
It was a tie.

On behalf of Republiks in Congress, Goldwater said "Go, Dick. Go." on Aug. 7, 1974:

His friends said he was often misunderstood, but his reputation for personal integrity was unblemished. At the height of the Watergate crisis, when the Republicans in Congress needed someone to tell President Richard M. Nixon he should resign, they chose Mr. Goldwater. But instead of telling the president what to do, Mr. Goldwater simply informed him in the Oval Office on Aug. 7, 1974, that the Republicans in Congress were unwilling and unable to stop his impeachment and conviction should he remain in office. Nixon announced his resignation the next day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/may...

Tarpley and Chaitkin report Poppy's letter to Tricky Dick of Aug. 7, 1974:

Dear Mr. President,

It is my considered judgment that you should now resign. I expect in your
lonely embattled position this would seem to you as an act of disloyalty
from one you have supported and helped in so many ways. My own view is that
I would now ill serve a President whose massive accomplishments I will
always respect and whose family I love, if I did not now give you my
judgment. Until this moment resignation has been no answer at all, but
given the impact of the latest development, and it will be a lasting one, I
now firmly feel resignation is best for the country, best for this
President. I believe this view is held by most Republican leaders across
the country. This letter is much more difficult because of the gratitude I
will always have for you. If you do leave office history will properly
record your achievements with a la sting respect. / Note #6 / Note #1

http://www.padrak.com/alt/BUSHBOOK_5.html

Tarpley and Chaitkin wrote Poppy said Agnew's adieu was nice, as well:

Bush had clearly distanced himself from the fate of the Nixon White House.
By the time Spiro Agnew resigned as Vice President on October 10, 1973,
Bush praised Agnew for his "great personal courage" while endorsing the
resignation as "in the best interest of the country." / Note #4 / Note #9


http://www.padrak.com/alt/BUSHBOOK_5.html

As you know, this all applies to the present...





Watergate Weighs on Today's White House

by Peter Wallsten
Published on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON Shortly after a 91-year-old man was revealed last week as the answer to the 30-year-old mystery of the Watergate affair, President Bush cast the scandal as something from the distant past.

"A lot of people wondered who 'Deep Throat' was, including me," Bush said after news broke that former FBI official W. Mark Felt had been the source leaking Watergate details to the press. "It would kind of fade from my memory, and then all of a sudden, somebody would pop it back in. Some story would reinvigorate that period."

And yet, far more than Bush has publicly acknowledged, Watergate and its aftermath have exerted a strong influence on the policies and attitudes of the president and others now in the White House some of whom had front-row seats for the scandal as members of the Nixon and Ford administrations.

SNIP...

As Republican Party chairman, George H.W. Bush flew across the country defending Nixon against the growing public sentiment that the president was not being truthful.

Taped conversations between Bush and Nixon reveal Bush's skepticism toward the news media. In one 1973 exchange, transcribed in Kutler's book, Bush assured Nixon the country was with him, "in spite of some of the crap you're reading."

In a July 1974 letter to his sons, Bush extolled Nixon's virtues and laid out his faults. But he kept returning to one conclusion: "I can understand the President's hostility towards press for they despise him," Bush wrote.

Bush later was among the first to tell Nixon he should resign.

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0607-01.htm



Poppy's record: The mood was like "sombody die ."(sic)





Last Digs in a Tearful Farewell

U.S. News & World Report
Posted 7/16/06

'It's weird," wrote George H. W. Bush in his diary entry for Aug. 9, 1974, the day that Richard Nixon became the first president in American history ever to resign from the office. One question seemed to keep coming up: "What kind of a man is this really?"

That summer, news of Nixon's ties to a break-in at the Democratic National Committee's Watergate headquarters had led to even worse revelations. Facing impeachment, Nixon announced on August 8 that he would resign. The next day, in his last hours as president, he made a private farewell speech. Bush, whom Nixon had appointed chairman of the Republican National Committee, got to sit in. The speech was "masterful," Bush noted, but--in a telling contradiction--its audience was noticeably small.

There is no way to really describe the emotion of the day. Bar and I went down and had breakfast at the White House. Dean and Pat Burch and the Buchanans were there in the Conference Mess. There was an aura of sadness, like somebody died. Grief. Saw Tricia and Eddie Cox in the Rose Garden--talked to them on the way into the ceremony. President Nixon looked just awful. He used glasses--the first time I ever saw them. Close to breaking down--understandably. Everyone in the room in tears. The speech was vintage Nixon--a kick or two at the press--enormous strains. One couldn't help but look at the family and the whole thing and think of his accomplishments and then think of the shame and wonder what kind of a man is this really. No morality--kicking his friends in those tapes--all of them. Gratuitous abuse. Caring for no one and yet doing so much. When he used the word "plumbers" meaning it "laboring with his hands" the connotation was a shock on me. I remember Lt. Col. Brennan who has been with him so long--Marine--standing proudly but with tears running down his face. People who labored next to Nixon's side forever are not invited. It's weird. The Nixon speech was masterful. In spite of his inability to totally resist a dig at the press, that argument about hating--only if you hate do you join the haters. After the Ford swearing in many of the pictures were changed with a great emphasis on the new President. We...hung around waiting for the swearing in of Ford. And then the whole mood changed. It was quiet, respectful, sorrowful in one sense, but upbeat. The music and the band seemed cheerier, the talking and babbling of voices after Ford's fantastic speech, crowds of friends, indeed a new spirit, a new lift.

SOURCE:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060716/16bus...



American Dynasty. Hah.



Good to read you, DemBones DemBones.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #183
253. G.H.W.'s diary of Aug. 9, 1974, is disgusting
The man was all heart, then and now. (SARCASM)

Justice will be done when George W. Bush is forced to resign! Let the forces begin, or Karma, or impeachment if "W" is too crazy to know he has broken the law, big time. Over 3,000 military deaths and thousands of critically injured for life should be his legacy. Let the games (investigations) begin.

Nixon got re-elected and figured he was home free from those nasty investigations, when, someone decided Nixon's time had come and America needed to know the truth. Who will be the one to bury George? Young George is a bigger criminal by about 22,000 honorable troops that have suffered from his arrogance and stupidity and Greed. Bushco is breathing heavy now waiting for Iraq to sign away their oil to the Powerful and Oppressive ones. They must sign or be destroyed by our never ending "Surges".
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
136. Didn't Ford have two assassination attempts against him????
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well.. that's just a CREEPY thing for him to bring up.
WHat a tacky family! Guilty conscience much?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Its like a Murderer coming back to the scene of the crime
when you think of it Poppy was really off today
Its like Ford's ghost was haunting him

Johnson was haunted by ghosts

noone can escape the unconcious no one
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
57. I believe the man protesteth too much. He's done this before, too, so you know
the guilt must be palpable, especially since he knows a portion of this country know DAMN WELL that the Bush family has committed many serious crimes against this nation and mankind.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
200. Kind of like OJ isn't he? nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #200
215. Just like OJ and J Edgar Hoover (photo)
Even the old prunefaced pony player looks scared.



Sorry about that Mr. Csonka. Would you like a towel?
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #57
217. Poppy doing a televised death-bed confession would truly help heal the nation and the world! n/t
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 06:21 AM by bananarepublican
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. yikes...
very ODDDDDDDDDDDDD placement to bring up that! at his eulogy?? bizarre... I know for a FACT that I've brought up stuff that I felt guilty about in improper settings, so H.W. is doing the same thing, that makes me veryyyyyyyyyy uncomfortable concerning JFK's demise!!!!!

damn b*sh family is creepy!



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts
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SaneInSC Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
79. Exactly! What an odd thing to bring up
Just wow.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #79
169. "Me thinks he doth protest too much!" ...
Is it possible that Poppy read to his kids - well into their early twenties - at night the wonderful right-wing-nut-job bedtime story... "The Big Bad Wolf Gets His Just Desserts from the Grassy Knoll of Hope".

Perhaps this fuels little Georgies' pleasant dreams, to this very day, about Nancy Pelosi and JFK Jnr. taking light aircraft "jaunts to destiny"?









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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #169
251. ''Murder will out...''
Going by the record of the Bush family reading materials, "My Pet Goat" would seem to be one dim pretzelnut's speed.

Is it possible that Poppy read to his kids - well into their early twenties - at night the wonderful right-wing-nut-job bedtime story...



"The Big Bad Wolf Gets His Just Desserts from the Grassy Knoll of Hope".


I'm bookmarking:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. Hmmm... reminds me of someone... hm... craving orange juice.... hm...
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 01:55 PM by cui bono
What a sick opportunist.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
99. Exactly. At least they stopped OJ from releasing "IF I Did It."
Tacky, inappropriate, revolting, downright evil. Nothing new from the Bush family.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
115. it is definitely creepy, return-to-scene stuff. Way too "coincidental"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
137. It's like answering a question before he's asked the question.
Kind of preparing us for the future "facts."

If Poppy is cracking up, it won't be long before he's sedated 24/7 -- in addition to the Chivas.

Your mention of CREEPY, reminds us of a very important point that often gets overlooked, progressivebydesign:

Poppy was positioned to connect C.R.E.E.P. -- the Committee to Re-Elect the President from Nixon to E Howard Hunt to G Gordon Liddy to Frank Sturgis to Luis Posada Carriles to Porter Goss to all the players in Dallas from The Texans to the CIA to ONI to NAZIs to the Mafia to the anti- and pro-Castro Cuban communities. The fellah's name is George Herbert Walker Bush.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #137
173. Yep,and where has it been suggested that it was important
That Poppy be the one and only National Chairman of the Republican Party
during the Watergate Era - As it was quite necessary to have someone who
understood exactly what Nixon's team of burglars were REALLY looking for in the
Democratic National Headquarters.

October Surprise? yep, can you imagine what the WhooHAH would have been if the
Democrtic Leadership of the day had announced say around October 13, 1972 that
they had connected the dots and found out that it was some of the top Republicans
who had it in for JFK?

Tricky Dicky, paranoic extraordinaire, he had to know that the secret was not known.

But the burglary ended up doing almost as much damage to him as uncovering the truth
of Nov 22 1963 would have.


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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #137
228. Speak Octafish,speak!


It is as clear as a bell that Poppy is smack in the middle.

:pike:
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
219. Yup. He's knows he's getting older. n/t
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe this goes to the heart of the matter.
A liar and a (possible) murderer, or accomplice, at the very least, SILENT witness to one of the greatest tragedies in modern American history and we are SHOCKED when his rotten offspring brings our very democracy to it's knees? W isn't the only one who needs to be investigated.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
117. Right---why don't we reopen the Kennedy assassination cold case? First witness: Poppy Bush
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
144. Bush and his cronies believe that the ''President is above the law.''
...at least when the President is Nixon or Ford or Reagan (read: Poppy) or Poppy or the crazy monkey.

In all seriousness, Frederick Schwarz, the man who led the staff assisting Sen. Frank Church investigate the domestic abuses of the FBI and CIA and now a law professor, said today's NSA snooping on Americans raises most troubling questions. And the PNAC Neocon Big Oil Wall Street NAZI Mafia Moonie Commie turdballs of the Bush Crime Family think they are above the law.



FREDERICK SCHWARZ: Well, you know, what I really think, what I'm really concerned about is the theory that Dick Cheney first voiced many years ago and he's continued to voice and Bush's lawyers have voiced, which is the theory that the President has the right to break the law. Now -- and indeed that the Constitution gives the President the right to break the law. That's never been suggested before. It's being suggested now, and if it's not put down and defeated, we are in a slippery slope moving toward a much more totalitarian government that's like the monarchy which we supposedly -- we tried to put behind us when we had the revolution 200 years ago.

CONTINUED w/audio link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/17/159...



Imagine the questions we could ask, given the authority of a Special Prosecutor? Imagine the issues we would raise? Imagine the public opinion, once the scales fell from the used ones' eyes. Anyway, Poppy, Hunt, Goss, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of those crooks would fast discover Civil Rights and the Bill of Rights and the refrain to "I plead the Fifth Amendment."

Thanks for everything and for giving a damn, dammitann. And a very hearty welcome to DU.
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #144
155. Thank you!
thrilled to be here!
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #144
191. seems to me they are...above the law, that is
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bringing up the Warren Commission and the Kennedy assassination
at Ford's service was beyond weird. I think GHWB is really losing it, is terrified of what is to come from the upcoming investigations of baby bush's actions and it is totally obsessing him.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Interesting too that Jeb Bush's name is being floated for VP.
There is an awful lot of stuff to keep buried and every new Bush adds to the pile.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. On The McLaughlin Group On Sunday
John gave a "it was good to know ya" kiss of to JB, saying the country will never elect another B**h.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. It doesn't matter. We never elected 'W', and look what happened.
As long as they controll Diebold and the courts...and they do, they can 'elect' Jeb if they want to.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. McCain's ''electable''...
...by Diebold standards.

Once in office, a man of his age and medical history could plausibly and suddenly take ill.

Jebthro as veep would be ready to pick up the kkkonservative mantle.

John Hinckley's dad once was a supporter of George HW Bush.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
71. John Hinckley is said to have eaten dinner with Neil Bush
the night before he shot President Reagan. I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but it is certain that the Bushes and the Hinckleys were old friends, which makes it at least an odd coincidence that the Hinckley son (known to be severely mentally ill by his family) was essentially turned loose, unsupervised, and ended up shooting Reagan when G.H.W. Bush was vice president.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
102. Neil was to have had dinner with John's brother, Scott - they were friends.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #102
109. Thank you for that clarification!
It's probably nothing more than a coincidence, then.
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onecent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #102
128. Why can't I access this web page??? help
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #71
194. Hinckley-Bush Dinner
The connection was mentioned by John Chancellor on NBC News but then dropped from Corporate McPravda.

Neil's wife Sharon remembered John Hinckley as the "renegade brother."



Hinckley-Bush Diner

On Tuesday, March 31, 1981 the Houston Post published a copyrighted story under the headline: "BUSH'S SON WAS TO DINE WITH SUSPECT'S BROTHER, by Arthur Wiese and Margarte Downing." The lead paragraph read as follows:
    Scott Hinckley, the brother of John Hinckley Jr., who is charged with shooting President Reagan and three others, was to have been a dinner guest Tuesday night at the home of Neil Bush, son of Vice President George Bush, The Houston Post has learned.


According to the article, Neil Bush had admitted on Monday, March 30 that he was personally acquainted with Scott Hinckley, having met with him on one occasion in the recent past. Neil Bush also stated that he knew the Hinckley family, and referred to large monetary contributions made by the Hinckleys to the Bush 1980 presidential campaign. Neil Bush and Scott Hinckley both lived in Denver at this time. Scott Hinckley was the vice president of Vanderbilt Energy Corporation, and Neil Bush was employed as a land man for Standard Oil of Indiana. John W. Hinckley Jr., the would-be assassin, lived on and off with his parents in Evergreen, Colorado, not far from Denver.

Neil Bush was reached for comment on Monday, March 30, and was asked if, in addition to Scott Hinckley, he also knew John W. Hinckley Jr., the would-be killer. "I have no idea," said Neil Bush. "I don't recognize any pictures of him. I just wish I could see a better picture of him."

Sharon Bush, Neil's wife, was also asked about her acquaintance with the Hinckley family. "I don't even know the brother," she replied, suggesting that Scott Hinckley was coming to dinner as the date of a woman whom Sharon did know. "From what I know and have heard, they are a very nice family...and have given a lot of money to the Bush campaign. I understand he was just the renegade brother in the family. They must feel awful."

SNIP...

Later in the day Bush spokesman Peter Teeley surfaced to deny any campaign donations from the Hinckley clan to the Bush campaign. When asked why Sharon Bush and Neil Bush had made reference to large political contributions from the Hinckleys to the Bush campaign, Teeley responded, "I don't have the vaguest idea." "We've gone through our files," said Teeley, "and we have absolutely no information that he or anybody in the family were contributors, supporters, anything."

A summary of this material was made generally available through the Associated Press, which published the following short note on March 31:
    The family of the man charged with trying to assassinate President Reagan is acquainted with the family of Vice President George Bush and had made large contributions to his political campaign....Scott Hinckley, brother of John W. Hinckley Jr. who allegedly shot at Reagan, was to have dined tonight in Denver at the home of Neil Bush, one of the Vice President's sons....The Houston Post said it was unable to reach Scott Hinckley, vice president of his father's Denver-based firm, Vanderbilt Energy Corp., for comment. Neil Bush lives in Denver, where he works for Standard Oil Co. of Indiana. In 1978, Neil Bush served as campaign manager for his brother, George W. Bush, the Vice President's eldest son, who made an unsuccessful bid for Congress. Neil lived in Lubbock, Texas, throughout much of 1978, where John Hinckley lived from 1974 through 1980.


CONTINUED...

http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/hinckley.html



Thank you for remembering the odd connections, yardwork.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
146. From your keypad to Rev Moon's real father's to-do list.
Poppy practically screamed,



"Please believe Jerry Ford. He's my alibi."

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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. K and R

Thank you Octafish for keeping this issue front and center.

So many people just can't believe that Poppy is not the ring leader of the Gang of CONS.

I have no problem with it.

Front line is doing a report on 9 11 tonight.

They are naming names like Rummy and Cheney but not one little word about Poppy.


Michael Moore was sure on to him in F 911

go Octafish,go!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
160. Poppy was friends with Lee Harvey Oswald's friend, George De Mohrenschildt.
George De Mohrenschildt is the only man known to have been friends with both George Herbert Walker Bush and Lee Harvey Oswald.
The guy had both their names and contact info in his address book.
When Gaeton Fonzi and the House Select Committee on Assassinations went to talk to him and ask what he knew regarding Dallas.
They were too late. A suicide by shotgun.



When Oswald was new to the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, De Mohrenschildt who until then had hung out exclusively with country club oil-exec types took "the working class loner and loser" under his wing. There are good indications De Mohrenschildt was Oswald's CIA "handler," or the guy who kept an eye on a former or current contact or agent. Oswald, based on government records and the facts surrounding his "defetion" to the Soviet Union, was CIA-connected, if not an asset.

There are at least two outstanding books on the subject: Professor John Newman, a retired US Army major and a former instructor at West Point, wrote "Oswald and the CIA." Professor Philip Melanson, who teaches at a Massachusetts state university, wrote "Spy Saga."

Online, an excellent biography from Oliver Stone's JFK web site:

Baron George De Mohrenschildt -- he did not use the title, but claimed it based on his Swedish grandfather's commission from the Queen of Sweden -- was born in Czarist Russia near the Polish border. He spoke at least six languages; was married four times; and is alleged to have performed services for at least three intelligence agencies, including the CIA, the OSS (the CIA's predecessor), and French intelligence. His biography remains one of the great marginal mysteries related, at least by circumstance, to the Kennedy assassination. De Mohrenschildt could at various points of his life count as personal friends such notables as President Lyndon B. Johnson, Texas oil billionaire H. L. Hunt, then-Zapata Oil chief George Herbert Walker Bush, and Janet Auchinchloss, mother of Jacqueline Kennedy. Not to mention Lee Harvey Oswald.

De Mohrenschildt told the Warren Commission that, while living in Texas, he'd heard from friends of a young Russian-speaking American with a Russian-born wife living in Fort Worth, and was intrigued enough to arrange a meeting. He said he'd informally inquired about Oswald with a friend, J. Walton Moore of the CIA's Domestic Contact Service. According to the Baron, Moore informed him that Oswald was "just a harmless lunatic." Moore adamantly denied ever discussing Oswald with De Mohrenschildt, but acknowledged that he had a long-standing relationship with the Baron.

In 1977 De Mohrenschildt was recovering from a nervous breakdown. He tracked down at his daughter's home in Florida by author Edward Jay Epstein, then researching his Oswald biography, Legend. The Baron claimed that he'd deceived the Warren Commission on one significant issue: He hadn't asked J. Walton Moore about Oswald; Moore had first mentioned Oswald to him, as far back as 1961, when the "defector" was still in the USSR. Upon Oswald's return, Moore suggested De Mohrenschildt look into Oswald, as the Domestic Contact Division was anxious to debrief Oswald, and apparently Oswald had refused their overtures. In exchange for some assistance from the Agency in smoothing out bureaucratic details of his planned move to Haiti, De Mohrenschildt befriended Oswald and allegedly passed along information to Moore. (Perhaps correctly, perhaps not, Epstein did not believe him.)(1)

De Mohrenschildt's life took a serious turn for the worse after the assassination of President Kennedy. Called back from Haiti to testify before the Warren Commission, De Mohrenschildt would later claim he'd told the Commission what he believed it wanted to hear, characterizing Oswald as "an unstable individual, mixed-up individual, uneducated individual."(2) "He had nothing. He had a bitchy wife, he had no money, was a miserable failure in everything he did."(3)

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfkcameooltmans.html



Small world. And very, very bad.



Thanks for giving a damn, goclark. Thanks also for being a Friend.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. You have to wonder what Nixon really knew about the Kennedy assassination
and what was on that 18-1/2 minute gap. Odder still, why hasn't the tape been subject to recovery? Seems to me that technology has progressed to the point where that could be a real possibility....or has that tape mysteriously disappeared yet?
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
84. good point
someone should look into that
Truth doesn't seem to matter especially in the Bush family
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
108. Tape 342 - I recall reading about revived attempts to recover the gap
from July 2002

~snip~

"Tape 342, as it's known by archivists, was last tested in 1974 by a panel of audio experts, who concluded that the erasures were done in separate segments. Whoever erased the tape pressed Record, stopped the tape, and hit Record again, between five and nine times - hardly an accidental erasure. But the panel was unable to retrieve any of the lost conversation. 'The experts concluded that it was a deliberate erasure', emails Bob Woodward, who along with colleague Carl Bernstein did much of the groundbreaking reporting on Watergate for The Washington Post. 'The public got the message: The tapes had very damaging information. The exact content of the 18 1/2-minute gap would be interesting'."

~snip~

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.07/nixon.html


~snip~


A panel of experts set up in the 1970s by federal judge John Sirica, who presided over the Watergate criminal trials, concluded that the erasures were done in at least five and perhaps as many as nine separate and contiguous segments. The panel never figured out what was erased.

Audio experts trying to recover what was said were not allowed to do tests on the original tape, which is stored at 65 degrees in a vault at the archives in College Park, Md. They had to prove they could retrieve voices from test recordings that have been erased without damaging the test tapes, said Susan Cooper, a spokeswoman for the archives.

The first test tape, distributed to experts in February 2002, consisted of erased test tones and spoken words. Results included partial identification of test tones, but none of the spoken words were recovered.

A second test tape was sent to experts in August 2002. This tape was recorded using blank 0.5-millimeter tape confiscated from the Nixon White House. It contained speech similar in quality to speech heard before and after the gap on the tape. None of the experts recovered any intelligible audio from the second test tape.

~snip~

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/27/politics/main...

On August 8, 2001, NARA published a Request for Information in the Commerce Business Daily requesting proposals from contractors to participate in a project attempting to recover erased audio material from the 18.5 minute segment of the original Nixon White House tape number 342.

(NARA = National Archives and Record Administration)

Wonder where this project stands in the 'must suppress' queue? Surely 911 changed everything, including any paths to truth.


what didn't happen:

well, if people will buy Pet Rocks, I suppose they'll buy Rose Mary Woods' demonstration of 'what happened'


~snip~

Steve St.Croix, an audio expert and president of Intelligent Devices
in Baltimore, has never heard the gap. But he said technology
developed in the past three years might make it possible to recover
conversation, even from tapes repeatedly erased on older machines.

``Any tape that has ever had audio on it can never be completely
free of that audio, though sometimes only infinitesimal amounts
remain,'' St.Croix said.

He said that when a recording is made, magnetized particles of iron
oxide - basically, rust - that are on the tape line up in patterns
to represent the sounds being recorded. According to St.Croix, most
of the particles move into these patterns, but not all.

The same thing happens when a tape is erased, he said. Most of the
particles are disrupted by erasure, but some are moved only
partially. It is these few that experts try to hear.

Another technique involves painting the tape with a chemical
substance that allows the patterns to be seen under a special light
and then possibly digitized into computer data and evaluated.

``It might be that we do all this and you get a beautiful, digital
image of absolutely nothing,'' he said. ``If it's not there, we
can't get it.''

~snip~

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/ami...


knr for truth

Our people need some basic truths about things in an attempt to hit our country's destiny reset button. The Ship of State has been misdirected and misled.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
161. The Texans and The Plumbers
Cosmicdot hits a grand slam, regarding the missing-gap tape and its current status. Wow!

Regarding the 18 1/2-minute gap tape:

Nixon and Haldeman were holding a friendly chat just before and after the 18 1/2 minute gap. Haldeman wrote that he believed Nixon euphemistically referred to the assassination of President Kennedy as "The Bay of Pigs Thing."

And we know Nixon said (approximately, eh holofella) "Fire everyone. But, don't fire Bush or the Texans. Bush will do anything for our side."

The Texans also, logically, would be the ones who knew the break-in was all about. And the Bush-led Reich Wing has pretty much represented the lineage of the Republican party that's survived the decades since Watergate. I wouldn't put it past Poppy's crew as being the ones to erase the darn thing.

Consider the Plumbers: Liddy's head was up Hoover's skirt and Hunt's hands were red with blood from Dallas. Hoover's lips were sealed as far as the Mafia went, but he had the bads on everybody. Hunt's handlers at CIA only said they never heard of Harriman or Thyssen or Gehlen. And in the years after Dallas, Big Oil had become mighty privatized, right Mr. Hughes?

So, if I could guess what was discussed on the tape... I'd say the Trickster revealed he knew what Poppy and his crew were all about. Poppy was positioned to connect C.R.E.E.P. -- the Committee to Re-Elect the President from Nixon to E Howard Hunt to G Gordon Liddy to Frank Sturgis to Luis Posada Carriles to Porter Goss to all the players in Dallas from The Texans to the CIA to ONI to NAZIs to the Mafia to the anti- and pro-Castro Cuban communities. They are the Texans and the Plumbers.

So, why did this memo survive? If not most, not all of Hoover's people were crooks. The government still has many good people who want the Truth to come out. They know that's what the United States Constitution requires. And it's what our democracy deserves.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
226. Nixon discussed the JFK assasination on the18-1/2 minute gap so much so
that erasing/eliminating the tapes wasn't an option.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Nazi enablers, liars, thieves and con men:The Bush Family Evil Empire.
They are America's version of the Borgia family.That's the real Bush legacy.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
96. will the truth ever be revealed?
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. A better question: Will the truth ever be accepted by the American public?
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 03:30 PM by oasis
:shrug:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
163. Borgias poisoned people. The Bushes poisoned an entire planet.
Both also are born of the exact same evil root from which springs all perverted and demonic slavemasters.

The late Mae Brussell pegs Nixon, who once upon a time was the front stooge for the BFEE:



The Nazi Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination

Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy


by Mae Brussell

EXCERPT...

1963: A few connections in Dallas -- Gen. Walter Dorberger, Michael and Ruth Paine

When George de Mohrenschildt was busy introducing Lee and Marina to the Dallas-Ft. Worth White Russian displaced Czarists, he managed to keep the social level equal with his American contacts.

One casual dinner in the company of Michael and Ruth Paine, and that was enough meeting to set the Oswalds course. George and Jeane didn't have to meet with them again.

Ruth Paine would provide housing for Marina while Lee went to New Orleans. A few weeks later, she drove Marina to join Lee. After summer vacation at Wood's Hole, Mass., Ruth returned and brought Marina to her home in Irving, Texas, while Lee was on the bus to Mexico with Albert Osborne/John Bowen, and four other Solidarists from the Russian network.

After Kennedy was murdered, the Dallas police rushed to the Paine's home. From that garage and elsewhere, via the Paines, came most of the incriminating evidence against Oswald.

The alleged murder weapon never could be proven by the Warren Commission as ever having come from their garage.

The cropped photo that Life printed with Oswald holding a rifle came from a box removed from the garage, taken to the police department, then returned the next day, with nobody present to indicate where it came from.

Accessory after the fact, the letter was delivered to Marina in December undated and unsigned, to cover up General Walker's anxiety to blame a "Communist," Lee, for shooting at him in April and came from Ruth to Marina. It wasn't in the home before then. The Warren Commission required planted evidence sometimes in order to divert from Lee Oswald's links to the Defense Department, assisted by Ruth and Michael Paine.

Michael Paine's occupation at Bell Aircraft is the Defense Department. This job requires security clearances, so what would the unlikely Oswalds be doing in his home? Oswald, the "defector?"

Paine's boss at Bell Aircraft as Director of Research and Development, was none other than the noterious war criminal General Walter Dornberger.

Dornberger was supposed to be hanged at Nuremburg for his war crimes, slave labor and mass murders.

The British warned the U.S. not to let him live because even after the war he was conniving for another one. As stated, "Dornberger is a menace of the first order who is untrustworthy. His attitude will turn ally against ally and he would become a source of irritation and future unrest." (Project Paperclip. Clarence Lasby.)

The very first call to authorities after the gun went off on November 22, 1963, was from an employee at Bell Helicopter who suggested "Oswald did it." Police never located the source of both Oswald addresses that day.

Michael Paine took Lee to a meeting with General Edwin Walker shortly before the assassination. Soon Oswald would be charged with having shot Walker in April, and Walker would be calling his nazi cronies in Germany 24 hours after JFK was killed telling them he finally solved "who shot through his window" seven months earlier: the same Oswald.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Na...



I know this all is old news to you, oasis. But for most of DU, let alone America, this is news.



Hope it's shocking.

Thanks for giving a damn, my Friend. May the Truth sink the BFEE.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wasn't LBJ In Dallas That Day?
If so why wasn't he included in the motorcade. Where was Hoover that day?

"Richard Nixon, who was also in Dallas from November 20, 1963 until just an hour before Kennedy arrived"

"George H.W. Bush is one of the very few Americans who does not recall where he was when JFK was killed. Yet, the following declassified document, places him in Houston 2 hours after JFK's assassination and shows he intended to go to Dallas that afternoon to look further into a possible assassination conspiracy." (thus sayeth the Octafish)

What was everyone doing in Dallas?

Do you suppose that Poppy's mortality is beginning to scare him, ghosts and spectres of the past catching up with him?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. LBJ was in the motorcade.
And his car was surrounded by Secret Service agents, unlike JFK's car.



The front car is JFK's. The next is the Secret Service car.
Note how the police motorcyclists are pulled back.
BTW: LBJ's car is waaay back.


Here's a clip showing SS Agent Henry J. Rybka being ordered off of JFK's limo.

http://www.fugly.com/videos/5835/jfk-secret-service.htm...

THE RYBKA TAPE -- An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Henry J. Rybka begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.

SOURCE and Details:

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. And Hoover?
So many points interconnecting. What was Nixon doing in Dallas?

Thanks for LBJ info. I thought he was there, for some reason never put him in the motorcade.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. Attending a Pepsi-Cola board meeting, IIRC.
Tricky Dick never struck me as a Pepsi kind of guy.....
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
62. Nixon was in Dallas meeting with Donald M. Kendall of PepsiCo
who also happened to be a friend of Henry Kissinger the war criminal and Nobel Prize winner who made some remarks at Gerald Ford's funeral.

So here's another "co-incidence theory" (the other CT) Donald M. Kendall and other Republican private sector forces were very upset when Allende was elected to head the government of Chile so Mr. Kendall called his friend Henry Kissinger and Chile was destabilized to the point that war criminal and torturer the recently deceased Pinochet was installed. Classic BFEE "diplomacy".

From 11-8-98 "A Marxist threat to cola sales? Pepsi demands a US coup. Goodbye Allende. Hello Pinochet." by Greg Palast
http://newsmine.org/archive/coldwar-imperialism/chile/c...
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
130. Pepsi was pissed off that Castro was taking over the sugar cane fields; thus, Pepsi is a possible
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 09:33 PM by wordpix
accomplice in the Kennedy assassination. :wow:
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thenixonbushconnectiontot...

snip:
Richard Nixon was Vice President from 1952 until 1960. In fact, Nixon was given credit for planning Operation 40, the secret 1961 invasion of Cuba, during his 1959 campaign for President After Batista was kicked out by the starving people of Cuba, and Fidel Castro came to power, Castro began telling American corporations they would have to pay Cuban employees decent wages. Even worse, Pepsi Cola was told it would now have to pay world market prices for Cuban sugar.

Pepsi, Ford Motor Co., Standard Oil and the Mafia drug dealers decided Fidel had to be removed since his policies of requiring corporations to pay market wages was hurting their profits. So the corporations asked then Vice-President Nixon to remove Fidel. Nixon promised he would, just as soon as he'd won the 1960 elections against some underdog, an unknown Democrat named John Kennedy. It would be an easy victory for Nixon. The polls had Nixon winning by a landslide. Besides, Kennedy was a Catholic, and Americans would no more elect a Catholic President than they would elect a woman, a black or a Jew. This was 1959.

Nixon told Pepsi, Standard Oil and other corporations who lost property given back to the farmers of Cuba, that if they would help him win, he would authorize an invasion to remove Castro. To further impress contributors to his campaign, then Vice-President Nixon asked the CIA to create Operation 40, a secret plan to invade Cuba, just as soon as he won.

The CIA put Texas millionaire and CIA agent George Bush in charge of recruiting Cuban exiles into the CIA's invasion army. Bush was working with another Texas oilman, Jack
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #130
139. OH MY GOD!!!!!!.....Are you kidding me? This is incredible info!!!
Thanks to the additional info that has never been heard !!!

WOW!!!WOW!!!....Triple WOW!!!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #139
175. You might want to check out a movie called
"Seven Days In May' in which a group of corporatists plot out the killing of a President.

Think it was filmed in the early 1970's and the film does not contain any mention to Kennedy -
but it definitely makes you wonder what corporatists were where in early Nov 1963
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #175
205. Nope-it was released in 1964 and was about a military coup
that had RW backing because the President was going to sign a nuclear weapons elimination treaty with the former USSR. A John Frankenheimer film (he also did the original "The Manchurian Candidate") about a US military coup coming out so soon after the assassination of President Kennedy was upsetting to many.

The plot involved kidnapping the President if he wouldn't resign and Burt Lancaster's RW Chairman of the JCS General James Matoon Scott character taking over the nation with the backing of other RW US military leaders and their defense contractor backers, relying heavily on a special unit (called Emergency Communications Control/ECOMCON in the film) to seize control of tv, radio and the press feeds.

The coup failed in the movie.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. Thanks for the corrections.
I do seem to remember someone being introduced to someone else in the movie, and it being whispered that they were connected to the Pepsi fortune.

On the other hand,I could be confusing some other movie with this one.

But I didn't see it until the mid-seventies, and it really made me think about the Kennedy assassination.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #175
227. "Seven Days In May' depicted the assassins practicing on a moving car target
The movie was shelved for at least 15 years before they released it and then it was pulled back out of circulation.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #227
229. I've added "Seven Days in May" to my Neflix list
I seem to remember reading that JFK found the book fascinating.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
86. Why was LBJ there?
Isnt it protocol to keep the President and vice President at separate functions/locations just in case? What if they were both taken down? When was the last time both President and Vice President were at the same function/location at the same time?

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #86
172. It didn't become protocol until after JFK's murder
Just as presidential candidates did not receive Secret Service protection until after RKF's murder.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
75. See the man winking at LBJ in the photo...
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 10:41 AM by FedUpWithIt All


His name is Albert Thomas. If it had not been for this winking man Kennedy would NOT have been in Dallas that day. He moved up a visit to coincide with Thomas' retirement dinner.

He and LBJ had a long history.

This is from an interview with Thomas' wife...

M: Were you involved with this trip when John F. Kennedy came to Texas in November of
1963 when he was killed in Dallas? Were you involved in any of that?

T: I sat by him that night at the dinner.
M: This was the one in Houston?
T: Yes.
M: Is it correct that both Lyndon Johnson as Vice President and John F. Kennedy were here in
Houston for a testimonial-type dinner for you and your husband? Is that right?
T: Yes, it came about--a group of people--Albert had been saying he was going to retire.
As a
matter of fact, he had made that announcement, so President Kennedy asked him to
reconsider; that he was needed very much; and would he consent to stay on. Of course, he
was ill at that time, but he was certainly able to carry on his work. So then my husband's
friends got up this dinner for him, and they asked my husband what did he think about
asking President Kennedy to come. He said, "Fine," he thought it would be a wonderful
gesture, but after all, he was so busy that he would certainly understand if he did not come.
Much to our surprise he did call my husband one day and said, "I'm coming to the dinner. I
had planned to go to Texas but not at this particular time. Since your dinner is going to be
then, I think I will come."
Well, immediately of course word got out and then all the people
began to make these plans. First, he'd go to San Antonio, then he'd come here, then he'd go
to Fort Worth, then he'd go to Dallas, then he'd go to Austin. Well, it became very
involved.
About a week or ten days later he had accepted and the people had begun to make
their definite plans here. President Kennedy called my husband and said, "Jackie wants to
come also." She had never been on a tour with him just exactly like this so she expressed a
desire to come. Well, when that happened we had to get a larger place because the flood of
people wanting to come then became so great that they had to open it up from the hotels and
other areas and put it in the Coliseum. That's how it happened to be. My husband wanted
to open it up to the public--so everybody could come. But then we didn't have any other
large place. Too, of course, the Secret Service had a say. All along the time my husband
kept saying, "Oh, I hope nothing happens while he's here in Houston at my dinner." I
remember very well when we were driving in. We had a Secret Service man in the car-M:
Was this in the motorcade?
T: Motorcade coming in that afternoon. And he would say, "Do you see anything along the
road?" And he kept looking that afternoon, I remember very well.


Tell me, does the picture of the winking man LOOK like an image of one distressed because his great fear of harm to the president had come true? While all this smiling and winking was going on, Jackie was still covered in her husband's blood.

M: Mr. Thomas was a witness to the swearing-in ceremony of Lyndon Johnson on the plane?
T: Yes, that one picture went around the world because Albert then showed the strain of his
illness and the shock of--. I think it is very pronounced in his expression.


my husband was asked to get back on the plane--I don't know just
how it did happen--but anyway, he was the one that said to President Johnson, "You can't
take off until you are sworn in as President of the United States."
That's how he happened to be right there in front. husband was the first to address Lyndon Johnson as "Mr. President."



More on Thomas and LBJ's activities.
M: Is it correct that the appointment to the Appropriations Committee was the most important?
T: Yes, it was, and that was our first sort of politics within politics.
M: What do you mean by that?
T: Well, President Johnson wanted it also.
M: I see. When was this appointment made? Was this after Johnson was President?
T: Oh, no. That was when he was a member in the House


M: I think one of the most famous projects that your husband was in on was the placing of the
Manned Spacecraft Center.
T: I think he gave about five years of his life on that, because he was so afraid that he wouldn't
get it. It was a terrific thing because there were so many people that were trying to
influence President Kennedy. And, of course, President Kennedy had a terrific decision to
make even against his own state, because MIT wanted it, you see, and California, where
they had the biggest electoral vote of any state almost. So he certainly did favor my
husband and all of Texas, of course, especially Houston.
M: What kind of work did Mr. Thomas have to do to persuade the officials to place the Center
here?
T: Well, I don't know that there was anything other than what was actually here. If anyone
could have seen the area that was selected, you couldn't believe it possible as you see it
now.
M: The land was barren then?
T: Yes. And the Nassau Bay residential area just across from the land was a ranch, it was the
Raymond Pearson Ranch. And this other land was just there.
M: Was that land owned by Humble Oil?
T: Yes, I think part of it was and different people--I'm not familiar with who owned all of it at
the time, but I knew that Humble did and they made it possible that they could purchase it-part
of their area.


M: Where does Brown and Root fit into all of this? Brown and Root apparently built much of
the Manned Spacecraft Center.

T: Well, I'm not familiar with that. I know that there were many people, many construction
companies, connected with it, too; not only Brown & Root, but many others and they
continue to be.
M: Did Mr. Thomas travel down here with the NASA people to inspect the site?
T: Oh, yes, he came at different times. They operated pretty much on their own, and certainly
didn't divulge any of their decisions until it was all given to President Kennedy and he made
the decision.
M: Well, now, Lyndon Johnson was Vice President at the time.
T: Oh, yes.
M: Did he have anything to do with this?
T: Oh, yes, he certainly did because he was very interested that it would come to Texas. And
I'm sure he had a lot of influence in doing that.


http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/Johnson/archives.hom/oralh...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #75
165. The Wink
Thank you, FedUpWithIt All. Excellent post and link.



All along the time my husband kept saying, "Oh, I hope nothing happens while he's here in Houston at my dinner." I
remember very well when we were driving in. We had a Secret Service man in the car-

M: Was this in the motorcade?

T: Motorcade coming in that afternoon. And he would say, "Do you see anything along the
road?" And he kept looking that afternoon, I remember very well.

SNIP...

That's how he happened to be right there in front. husband was the first to address Lyndon Johnson as "Mr. President."



No wonder Nixon talked about "The Texans" and "The Bay of Pigs Thing."
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #165
170. Thank you Octafish...
Same damn players. :::sigh:::
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. It wasn't just the Warren Commision he brought up Dana Carvey
Dana Carvey did a spoof on when Ford died in 1996 acting like Tom Brokaw

In the Political Videos I put it up It was FREAKY

and gave me chills

Bush was crackin jokes and just seemed like saying in front of Ford's grave

See I took out Kennedy
Johnson was my fello Texan
then I took out Nixon out
delivered his resignation papers
when you look back in history
Poppy has been intwined in the CIA manipulating and manuevering
He has always failed
failed when Clinton won and beat him
He had to steal the election from Gore

and Kerry too

His time when he looks back is really very short
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
140. I bet Poppy has every video of Dana Carvey!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
180. Poppy tried to pop Pruneface.
Part of a pattern:

JFK, Dallas. Poppy was there.
Nixon, Watergate. Poppy was there.
Carter, October Surprise. Poppy was there.
Reagan, Hinckley. Poppy was there.
Reagan, Iran-Contra. Poppy was there. (Although that didn't work, either.)



HINCKLEY: HIT MAN FOR THE SHADOW GOVERNMENT?

What is more dangerous for the future of our country than a conspiracy to assassinate a president? It is a conspiracy to manipulate and control what the American people are told by the national news media. There are scores of unanswered questions surrounding the event of the afternoon of March 30, 1981. For instance, John Chancellor, eyebrows raised, informed the viewers of NBC Nightly News that the brother of the man who tried to kill the president was acquainted with the son of the man who would have become president if the attack had been successful. As a matter of fact, Chancellor said in a bewildered tone, Scott Hinckley and Neil Bush had been scheduled to have dinner together at the home of the vice president's son the very next night.
And, of course, the engagement had been canceled. . . Then a peculiar thing happened: The story vanished. To this day, it has never been reported in the New York Times, Washington Post or many other metropolitan newspapers, never again mentioned by any of the television news networks, and never noted in news magazines except for a brief mention in Newsweek, which lumped it with two ludicrous conspiracy scenarios as if the Bush-Hinckley connection didn't deserve some sort of explanation.


THE MEDIA MADE IT APPEAR THAT THE ONLY MOTIVATION BEHIND THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT WAS HINCKLEY'S OBSESSION WITH JODIE FOSTER

But many other significant facts concerning the Bush and Hinckley families have remained unexplored and unexplained, in addition to other matters related to the assassination. For example: Neil Bush, a landman for Amoco Oil, told Denver reporters he had met Scott Hinckley at a surprise party at the Bush home January 23, 1981, which was approximately three weeks after the U.S. Department of Energy had begun what was termed a "routine audit" of the books of the Vanderbilt Energy Corporation, the Hinckley oil company. In an incredible coincidence, on the morning of March 30, three representatives of the U.S. Department of Energy told Scott Hinckley, Vanderbilt's vice president of operations, that auditors had uncovered evidence of pricing violations on crude oil sold by the company from 1977 through 1980. The auditors announced that the federal government was considering a penalty of two million dollars. Scott Hinckley reportedly requested "several hours to come up with an explanation" of the serious overcharges. The meeting ended a little more than an hour before John Hinckley Jr. shot President Reagan.

Although John Hinckley Sr. was characterized repeatedly by the national news media as "a strong supporter of President Reagan," no record has been found of contributions to Reagan. To the contrary, in addition to money given to Bush, a fellow Texas oilman, as far back as 1970, the senior Hinckley raised funds for Bush's unsuccessful campaign to wrest the nomination from Reagan. Furthermore, he and Scott Hinckley separately contributed to John Connally in late 1979 when Connally was leading the campaign to stop Reagan from gaining the 1980 presidential nomination. The Bush and Hinckley families, of course, would do better under a Bush presidency than it would under President Reagan. Available evidence at the time made clear many other connections between the Bush and Hinckley families. Reported "coincidences" involving the Hinckleys and the family of H.L. Hunt also remained unexplored. Even the official government line admitted that the Bush and Hinckley families "maintained social ties." The deeply troubled Hinckley oil company obviously would fare better under a president Bush.

The assertion by the media of course, was that the assassination attempt was nothing more than the senseless act of a deranged drifter who "did it to impress Jodie Foster." However, that all of these "coincidences" are thoroughly ignored by the media is also suspicious. It is also essential to understand the travesty of the trial of John W. Hinckley, presided over by Judge Barrington D. Parker. In May 2001, Barrington D. Parker was one of the first eleven nominees for appointment to federal appeals courts by President George W. Bush.

But there's more. NBC correspondent Judy Woodruff said that at least one shot was fired from the hotel, above Reagan's limousine. She later elaborated, saying a Secret Service agent had fired that shot from the hotel overhang. Could Reagan's wound have been inflicted by friendly fire? Or, more ominously, did Woodruff glimpse a bona fide "second gunman" - a la JFK in Dealey Plaza? Either way, Woodruff's account might explain how a slug managed to strike Reagan when his limo's bulletproof door stood between him and Hinckley. Sizing up the Hinckley-Bush nexus, conspiracy researcher John Judge has theoretically dubbed this "the shot from the Bushy knoll." According to conspiratologist Barbara Honegger, White House correspondent Sarah McClendon made the somewhat more subjective comment that Reagan's Secret Service retinue wasn't in its "usual tight formation" around Reagan in front of the Hilton. Were the Gipper's bodyguards out to throw the game?

SNIP...

The day after his Nazi-seeking mission, Hinckley flew to Nashville to stalk Jimmy Carter, but was arrested at the airport when authorities discovered three handguns in his suitcase. Oddly, after only five hours in custody, this unstable character - who had attempted to transport weapons across state lines and into a city soon to be visited by the president of the United States - was fined and released without further ado. Even more oddly, the authorities apparently didn't bother to examine his journal, which in Dear Diary fashion, detailed Hinckley's plans to kill Carter. Was this a case of bumbling negligence or something more ominous? Most likely they had found a perfect fall guy, similar to Oswald, to be used in some future covert operation.
JFK. Dallas.

CONTINUED...

http://www.geocities.com/Northstarzone/HINCKLEY.html



Thanks for caring, lovuian. It makes all the difference in the world, the truth.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #180
264. And remember... Bush W in his first year of office tried to release Hinkley from
the nut house.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. According to the CIA report, Bush was not in Dallas during the assasination.
He was going there, says the report. The phone call happened at 1:45 pm, twenty minutes after Kennedy was shot. Bush reported something he'd heard in the weeks before but hadn't taken seriously - that is, until Kennedy wound up dead.

I don't mean to interrupt your CTing here, but please do deal with what the report is actually saying.

PS: The "magic bullet" isn't undamaged. By now, you should be aware of that.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. No ''CTing here.'' Bush told the FBI he was heading for Dallas.
That's what the FBI reported. That's what I wrote he said.

What makes you write that he didn't take Parrot's threat seriously? Guess if I heard someone threaten the President, I'd report it right away, and not wait until he was deceased.

Yes. The magic bullet has some damage. The damage matches a bullet fired into cotton wadding. It certainly doesn't distend, distort or otherwise resemble a bullet that's passed through two human beings and several bones.

Talk about theorizing.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. You said: "Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?"
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 12:08 AM by boloboffin
He wasn't. He was in Houston. He went there after the assasination.

I say he didn't take Parrott's threat seriously because he didn't report it. Guess if I heard some stupid college kid mouth off about killing the President, I might not take it seriously either. As soon as Kennedy was shot, though, Bush reported it as a possible lead. At that point, twenty minutes after the shooting, Bush had no idea who could have done it, but he did have a possible suspect.

You also said: "The Warren Commission case hinges on the undamaged bullet..."

Now you say the bullet does have some damage.

Continue your theorizing.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Parse words all you want. The Warren Commission is a Big Lie.
Bush, according to what he told the FBI in the following memo, was in Tyler, Texas less than an hour after the assassination.

Tyler is about a 90-minute drive from Dallas. He said he was driving toward Dallas and would be checking into the Sheraton.



On Don Imus, a couple DUers reported hearing Michael Beschloss relate how Barbara Bush, Poppy's wife, told him she and Junior were in Dallas that day to "watch the parade." My guess is that Poppy would be nearby, perhaps on business.

The Warren Commission case hinges on an undamaged bullet, yes. Undamaged as in not being distorted as bullets that pass through bone, soft tissue or even water. The bullet they say passed through JFK and Gov. Connolly appears pristine.

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php?title=Photos_...

Debunk all you want. It doesn't matter to me what you or the Warren Commission believe. The country's been messed up since November 22, 1963. A lot of the problems have arisen from the actions of the Bush family and the people and organizations they serve.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. LOL - Parse words?
Man.

You said the bullet was undamaged. Then you said it was damaged. Now you're saying it's pristine.

Looks like you could do with a little word parsing.

All I'm trying to do is show you how what you're posting - actual historical documents and items - are getting in the way of what you're saying. It seems to me that you'd thank me for that.

Like just now, when you pointed out that Bush was in Tyler, according to the documented call. I had said he was in Houston. I was wrong. Thank you for that.

Now you said in the OP that Bush was in Dallas when JFK was assasinated. But you just now pointed out that Bush was in Tyler, 90 minutes from Dallas, according to the documented call. I would think you'd want to be corrected on things like that - you are after the truth, aren't you?

Plus the bullet isn't undamaged or pristine at all - and I'm sure you've seen the pictures that prove that. If you want to dispute that the damage is inconsistent with a bullet that passed, yadayadayada, fine. But you know that the bullet isn't undamaged or pristine, because you said so in one of your posts.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. So what are your thoughts about why George HW Bush couldn't remember where he was
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 01:30 AM by Old and In the Way
on that day? Just forgetful? Couldn't remember contacting the FBI and telling them where he was at that moment? I wonder how many other people contacted the FBI right after the assassination? Because, there'd be no reason to establish a documented alibi, right? Interestingly, I believe the official record claims that it wasn't him. (The other CIA George Bush claims it wasn't him, either.) Sounds like you aren''t arguing that point, though.

Bush wasn't the only person who couldn't remember where he was on that day....

"Nixon claimed to the FBI he couldn't remember where he was when JFK was killed." (Source: FBI memo, Feb. 23, 1964, published in Coup d'etat in America, Weberman & Canfield). http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thenixonbushconnectiontot...

This site is really fascinating, seems like the reason for the Watergate burglary that Nixon ordered was directly related to the Kennedy assassination.


"On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

I'm sure these are just a bunch of unfortunate and entirely random coincidences though...


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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Nixon was in Dallas at the "Pepsi Convention Meeting"
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 01:37 AM by shance
Seems another amazing coincidence. Apparently it is said he was on the Love Field tarmac when the assassination happened.

In other words, he was in Big D, and just leaving as the murder occurred.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. Come on.
Octafish said one thing, and the piece of paper he had posted as evidence cleared said something else.

Octafish represented the bullet as being undamaged, and the bullet was damaged.

At the very least, all I am asking is deal with the evidence as is. That way, the evidence doesn't trip up what you're trying to say.

The Bush memo appears to be authentic. It doesn't provide him with a alibi - calling up and saying you're in Tyler doesn't mean that you're in Tyler. Bush could very well have been in Dallas at that point or anywhere, but the paper isn't evidence of that, and couldn't be used as an alibi anyway.

Why did he say he couldn't remember where he was at the time of the assasination? I don't know. Maybe he was banging some broad in Tyler when the news broke in over the music on the radio.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. entirely random coincidences...
that always seem to happen with precise synchronization, or violate the laws of physics and/or chemistry.

That is some set of coincidences. I never knew that the laws of Physics and Chemistry took time off to let 'coincidences' happen. :evilgrin:

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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
61. Poppy is coming to terms with his own mortality...
Ford is another man dead who knew many if not all of his secrets, but there are still others out there, perhaps some that are just waiting for his demise to tell all.

Poppy knows it's going to come out. He's made way too many enemies in his lifetime, and somebody out there is waiting, just waiting.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #61
112. 'still others out there'
I've wondered if Jack Valenti has any helpful information.


President of the Motion Picture Association

went to work for LBJ after LBJ became president ... Valenti was in Dallas on 11/22/1963 ... was on the plane when LBJ was sworn in ... yet, today, he's one of Poppy's pResidential library Trustees

go figure ...
it just seems a strange connection (what connection?) between Valenti and Poppy w/LBJ in between


wiki

~snip~ Valenti's agency was in charge of the press during the November 1963 visit of President John F. Kennedy and Vice-President Lyndon Johnson to Dallas, Texas. Following the assassination of President Kennedy, Valenti was present in the famous photograph of Lyndon Johnson's swearing in aboard Air Force One.

He then became the first "special assistant" to Johnson's White House. He lived in the White House for the first two months of Johnson's presidency. Valenti was so loyal to Johnson that it was once said of him "If LBJ dropped the H-bomb, Valenti would call it an urban renewal project." ~snip~


a side note:

DimSon's White House met with Valenti in 2001:

~snip~

President Bush is sending senior officials to Hollywood for a meeting with studio executives on Sunday. The president wants to see just how the film industry can help in the ongoing war on terrorism, and whether the industry is willing to provide patriotic escape during the war effort.

Is it propaganda? Or patriotism? Perhaps it's both.

Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America, welcomed the meeting, but said he hoped the White House representatives weren't planning "to tell us what kind of movies to make."

~snip~

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/09/holly... /


Top Hollywood executives, following a meeting with White House officials in Beverly Hills on Sunday, pledged to aid the war against terrorism but stopped short of announcing actual plans for doing so. MPAA chief Jack Valenti said that a variety of ideas were put forth, ranging from helping to create training films to mounting USO-type tours to entertain overseas troops. Valenti said that a team will be set up with the government to coordinate future plans, with a "point person" being assigned at each of the major studios and networks. He also noted that the content of movies was "off the table" and that Bush officials made no attempt to influence Hollywood about the kind of films it should make.

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2001-11-12


Hollywood considers role in war effort

November 12, 2001


LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Representatives of Hollywood's major studios, television networks and creative community met with a White House delegation Sunday for what was described as a "lively exchange of ideas" on how the entertainment industry can help in the war against terrorism.

Despite the sometimes contentious relationship between the worlds of entertainment and politics, "there was a seamless web of unity that was really quite affectionate to behold," said Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America, in a news conference after the meeting.

"This was about contributing Hollywood's creative imagination and their persuasion skills to help in this war effort so that one day Americans can lead normal lives again," said Valenti, who was an adviser to President Lyndon Johnson in the 1960s. ~snip~

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/11/rec.hollywood.ter...


if you can't count on your friends to help, who can you turn to?

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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
120. gawd, I didn't know any of this. I'm stunned. What a rotten group. Will they ever be exposed?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #120
124. Which is EXACTLY why the truth of #43 must come out now -- ALL OF IT!
And it must be punished.

Otherwise, the snowball continues, and we won't survive the next avalanche as a nation.

:cry:

BTW, have you seen the video "The Plot To Overthrow FDR"? I highly recommend it for another piece of history you likely haven't heard!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #120
220. They are the Lowest of the Low. n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
159. Mehr licht.
Youre right, boloboffin. Parsing words is beside the point.
Whats really important is youre drawing attention away from the reason for the post.
Im making a case against GHWB and youre making a case against me.

Fair enough. My words weren't clear enough. But first, here are the facts:

1. Bush told the FBI he was in Dallas the day JFK died. Why was he there? Thats the question he doesnt want to answer. That would seem to me to be a good reason for never remembering where he was when asked. My guess in the OP, which you dont mention, is that he was there on CIA business.

2. The Magic Bullet does not look at all like similar ammunition that has been fired through any material. It appears, for a fired bullet, pristine. Mannlicher Carcano firing a similar mm round into water distorts; fired into soft tissue, distorts; fired into bone, distorts badly. The only match investigators have been able to come up with is that of a bullet fired into cotton wadding.

And yes, the bullet appears to my eyes pristine. Especially when considering the fragments taken from Gov. Connallys wrist and thigh appear to be larger than any thing missing from the Magic Bullet. Gee. CE399, the bullet pulled from the gurney, does not appear to be missing anything near that much of its mass.



Warren Commission Testimony of Commander Humes, Medical Corps, United States Navy.

Humes' undergraduate training was at St. Joseph's College at Villanova University in Philadelphia. He received his medical degree in 1948 from the Jefferson Medical College of Philadelphia. He received his internship and postgraduate training in Pathology at various Naval hospitals, and at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology at Walter Reed in Washington, D.C. At the time of his Warren Commission testimony, Humes' title was Director of Laboratories of the Naval Medical School at Naval Medical Center at Bethesda. He was charged with the responsibility of the overall supervision of all of the laboratory operations in the Naval medical center, including the field of anatomic pathology (examining surgical specimens and postmortem examinations) and clinical pathology (examination of the blood and various body fluids). He was certified both in anatomic pathology and in clinical pathology by the American Board of Pathology.

    Mr. SPECTER. Now looking at that bullet, Exhibit 399, Doctor Humes, could that bullet have gone through or been any part of the fragment passing through President Kennedy's head in Exhibit No. 388?

    Commander HUMES. I do not believe so, sir.

    Mr. SPECTER. And could that missile have made the wound on Governor Connally's right wrist?

    Commander HUMES. I think that that is most unlikely ... The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be intact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations.

    Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Humes, under your opinion which you have just given us, what effect, if any, would that have on whether this bullet, 399, could have been the one to lodge in Governor Connally's thigh?

    Commander HUMES. I think that extremely unlikely. The reports, again Exhibit 392 from Parkland, tell of an entrance wound on the lower midthigh of the Governor, and X-rays taken there are described as showing metallic fragments in the bone, which apparently by this report were not removed and are still present in Governor Connally's thigh. I can't conceive of where they came from this missile.

    Representative FORD. The missile identified as Exhibit 399.

    Commander HUMES. 399, sir.


CONTINUED

http://www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm



But wait, theres more:



Dr. Shaw is a physician and surgeon who received his B.A. degree from the University of Michigan in 1927, and M.D. degree from the same institution in 1933. He then served 2 years at the Roosevelt Hospital in New York City in training in general surgery. He then experienced 2 years of training in thoracic surgery at the University Hospital, Ann Arbor, Michigan. He entered private practice in 1938 in Dallas, Texas, limiting his practice to thoracic surgery. He remained at his private practice except from June, 1942, until December 1945, when he was a member of the Medical Corps of the Army of the United States, serving principally in the European theater of operations. He was away again from December, 1961, until June, 1963, when he was head of the MEDICO team and performed surgery at Avicenna Hospital in Kabul, Pakistan. He returned to Dallas and on September 1, 1963, started working full time with the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School as professor of thoracic surgery and chairman of the division of thoracic surgery. He was also chief of thoracic surgery at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, which is the chief hospital from the standpoint of the medical facilities of the school. He was certified by the Board of Thoracic Surgery since 1948. He had civilian experience with bullet wounds in his work at Parkland Hospital. His had more experience with bullet wounds during the Second World War when he was serving as chief of the thoracic surgery center in Paris, France. During this particular experience, he admitted over 900 patients with chest wounds of various kinds. His best estimate as to the total number of bullet wounds he experienced? "It would be approximately 1000, considering the large number of admissions we had in Paris."

    Mr. SPECTER: What is your opinion as to whether bullet 399 could have inflicted all of the wounds on the Governor, then, without respect at this point to the wound of the President's neck?

    Dr. SHAW. I feel that there would be some difficulty in explaining all of the wounds as being inflicted by bullet Exhibit 399 without causing more in the way of loss of substance to the bullet or deformation of the bullet. (Discussion off the record.)


Dr. Shaw's testimony is interrupted at this point, and "off the record" discussions take place. Later...

    Dr. SHAW: All right. As far as the wounds of the chest are concerned, I feel that this bullet could have inflicted those wounds. But the examination of the wrist both by X-ray and at the time of surgery showed some fragments of metal that make it difficult to believe that the same missle could have caused these two wounds. There seems to be more that three grains of metal missing as far as the--I mean in the wrist.

    Mr. SPECTOR: Does that bullet appear to you to have any of its metal flaked off?

    Dr. SHAW: I have been told that the one point on the nose of this bullet that is deformed was cut off for purposes of examination. With that information, I would have to say that this bullet has lost literally none of its substance.


CONTINUED

http://www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm



Of course, someone could say, Thats just subjective. Fair enough. And I must report that no where have I find a government report listing the actual weight of the fragments recovered from, and remaining in, Gov. Connallys wrist and femur. From what the attending physicians of the day reported though, the mass didnt come from the Magic Bullet.

And that leads me to the question I want to ask you: Why do you spend time cutting up what I wrote? What that does is draw readers attention from the reason for the post, which is Poppy Bushs involvement, even if tangentially, in the assassination of President Kennedy.

Man.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #159
214. You need to look again at the "pristine" bullet.
Because your eyes are decieving you.



And again, you state: 1. Bush told the FBI he was in Dallas the day JFK died.

No, he did not. The paper YOU brought says that Bush told the FBI he was in Tyler, and was going to Dallas!

I don't understand why you can't be precise about the evidence that you bring here. What is so hard about this?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #214
230. Are you the same boloboffin who posts for Amazing Randi?
A friend from Smirking Chimp mentioned you might be.

Regarding the Magic Bullet:

Fragments taken from Gov. Connally:



Other fragments remained in Gov. Connally, from what I understand.



Now where do these fragments come from?

Interested readers can visit:



Governor Connally's Wrist Wound and CE-399

This is a test. Please take your time.

This article offers high-resolution government photographs of the bullet that that Warren Commission says caused all of Governor Connally's wounds.

You are then shown bullet fragments that the Warren Commission says came from that bullet. And you are also given sworn testimony from attending emergency room personnel telling you that there are even more fragments left in the Governor's body.

Your mission: To pinpoint exactly where on this bullet all these fragments came from. The Warren Commission concluded that all these fragments came from CE-399. Their whole case is based on the "single bullet theory."

If you can see where the fragments came from, then you prove the Warren Commission's case.

But if you cannot see defects in CE-399 to account for the fragments shown and testified to, then you have just destroyed the Warren Commission's findings in their Report.

CONTINUED with photos, including the image kindly furnished by boloboffin.

http://www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm



Seeing is believing.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #230
278. How curious!
no answer?
great post btw!
:hi:
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
87. wasn't Parrott a family friend or something
didn't HW know more about him then he let on in the phone call
also can anyone (say a businessman from Houston) just get through to SAC anytime and why would they care if he went to Dallas or was in Tyler
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #87
182. Houston: A Key Part Of The Assassination
Odd that the SAC would take this call, "out of the blue" on the busiest day of the year. Must've been a Friend of Murchison.

I remember hearing Parrott was a John Bircher buddy of the Bush family and that they were seen hooting it up at the country club when Poppy ran for the Senate in '66. But, that's just hearsay.



Houston: A Key Part Of The Assassination

by Anthony Frank, Wed Dec-31-69 06:00 PM

EXCERPT...

Houston was, in fact, central to elements of the CIA with designs on taking control of the United States Government, elements of the CIA that wanted Goldwater to become President after they killed President Kennedy, and elements of the CIA that were essential to the cover up so that not only would the CIA be removed from any suspicion, no one would think that Houston was in any way relevant to the assassination of President Kennedy.

George H. W. Bush, who announced on September 11, 1963, (exactly one month before Goldwaters grandiose reception in Texas) that he was running for the Senate, was from Houston.

The IACP convention, at which the CIA recruited the Dallas Police, was in Houston from October 5-10, 1963. (As previously noted, Oswald started working at the Texas School Book Depository on October 15, 1963.)

The chief of the "Secret Service" was, for some reason, in Houston on October 8, 1963, while the CIA was recruiting the Dallas Police at the IACP convention there, but if his being in Houston was officially because of the IACP convention, that was kept a secret when he was interviewed by the Dallas Morning News.

Leon Jaworski, who was "so close" to Lyndon Johnson during Johnsons years as a Senator, Vice President, and President, and who spent four short days putting an end to the Texas State Inquiry before going to work for the Warren Commission, was from Houston, and his M.D. Anderson Foundation, which had been channeling money for the CIAs bogus foundations in the late 1950s and early 1960s, was in Houston. (See my post "Key Player In The Cover-up" for information on Leon Jaworski and his work to cover up the assassination.)

On October 13, 1963, the New York Times reported that "an area representative of the Cameron Iron Works of Houston" established the "Goldwater Clubs of Connecticut," the state of Eastern liberal Republicans where George W. Bushs grandfather, former Senator Prescott Bush, had made Goldwater such an unlikely favorite for the GOP nomination.

Obviously people in Houston thought that the "Goldwater Clubs of Connecticut" would serve to show President Kennedy that there was a looming Goldwater challenge in 1964.

Having George W. Bushs grandfather caustically berate liberal Republican Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York, four months before Cameron Iron Works of Houston established the Goldwater Clubs of Connecticut, also showed President Kennedy that Goldwater would end up being his opponent, unless Kennedy was able to show Goldwater that there was no reason for him to give up his Senate seat in a futile campaign for the White House.

For some reason, George W. Bushs father, George H. W. Bush, interjected himself into President Kennedys assassination one hour and fifteen minutes after Kennedy was assassinated.

An FBI memo dated November 22, 1963, states that George H. W. Bush of Houston called the FBI in Dallas at 1:45PM on November 22, 1963, which is when the Dallas Police were arresting Oswald, and "wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks" that a man named James Parrott "has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston."

Bush identified himself as "President of the Zapata Off-shore Drilling Company" in Houston and said that the "day and source" of the hearsay were "unknown." He did, however, give the names and phone numbers of two people that he said "would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of Parrot."

    Why didnt George Bush cite that he was the son of former Senator Prescott Bush, and a candidate for the Republican nomination for Senator in Texas?

    Did George Bush simply refrain from citing these credentials as a believable person when he furnished information that there had been a threat to kill a President who had just been assassinated?

    Wasnt it convenient that the "day and source" of what Bush allegedly overheard were "unknown?"

    Why did Bush claim that two other people, whose names and phone numbers were furnished by Bush, would have information on Parrott when the "day and source" of what Bush allegedly overheard were "unknown?"

    If Bush had, "in recent weeks," overheard that James Parrott "has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston," then why didnt Bush provide that information to federal authorities before the President came to Houston?

    Why did Bush wait until after the President went to Dallas and after he was assassinated to furnish information about a threat to kill the President of the United States?


(As cited in the section on George Bush, four and a half years after they had him provide the information, they had people in "business and Congressional circles" promoting a "Bush-for-Vice-President campaign," after Billy Graham, who knowingly or unknowingly received CIA funds from the CIAs bogus foundations, suggested to Richard Nixon that he consider freshman Congressman George Bush of Houston as his running-mate.)

SNIP...

After Kennedy was assassinated, Federal interest in David Ferrie had "waned" when the FBI determined that he "had gone to Houston rather than Dallas."

When Jim Garrisons investigation became public on February 17, 1967, David Ferrie, identified as the focus of the investigation, stated, "Supposedly I have been pegged as the getaway pilot in an elaborate plot to kill Kennedy."

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=printer...



Who needs enemies when you have friends?



Glad to know ya, ktlyon. Thanks for caring about the Truth.
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. Interesting that he had a possible suspect so quickly.
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 03:42 AM by Contrite
Reminds one of how fast the 19 hijackers were listed and OBL was blamed--especially considering they had "no idea" something like this would happen.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/112404_kenned...

So we have George H. W. Bush telling the FBI that he did not know the source of the information but knew that a John Bircher named James Parrott, who was the same age as Lee Harvey Oswald (24), wanted to kill President Kennedy in Houston. Bush did not know much about Parrott but gave the name of two Republican Party officials in Houston. Of course, Bush's Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company had been a CIA front since 1960 and had supplied the Bay of Pigs invasion (code named "Zapata") force with two of his company's ex-U.S. Navy landing craft, renamed the "Barbara J" and the "Houston." In any case, Bush's phone call to the FBI was a false lead, and Parrott was cleared. However, Bush's phone call creates more questions about him than about Parrott. First of all, there is no evidence that Bush was in Tyler when Kennedy was shot. There was no Caller ID in those days that would have allowed Special Agent Kitchel to know, for a fact, that Bush was calling from Tyler. Bush's wife, Barbara, claimed he was in Tyler but Bush once said he may have been in Port-au-Prince, Haiti that day. But Bush himself admits to the FBI that he was booked into the Sheraton Hotel in Dallas on November 22.

Then there is the business of the November 29, 1963 memo from the Director of the Department of State's Bureau of Intelligence and Research to J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI Director. The subject is "Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, November 22, 1963." The memo states:

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U.S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U.S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to us, George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963 by Mr. W.T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

A copy of the above memo was furnished to the Director of Naval Intelligence. That is important for reasons that will be explained in the following paragraph.

Not only was George H. W. Bush, a known CIA operative, in Dallas on November 22 but he was also keeping track of the stance of pro-Castroites in Miami. That would have been important because Lee Harvey Oswald, Kennedy's accused assassin was supposed to be a pro-Communist member of the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." But he was also associated with the "Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean" and "Friends of Democratic Cuba." And his apparent control officer was FBI agent Guy Bannister, formerly of the Chicago FBI office and a former Naval Intelligence officer, whose office "Guy Bannister Associates, Inc." a CIA cut-out for training anti-Castro Cubans, was located at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans. 544 Camp was also the address used by Oswald's "pro-Communist" "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." The local Office of Naval Intelligence was across the street from 544 Camp.

The Director of Naval Intelligence is made privy, as an "info addee," to the aforementioned State Department memo on the reaction of pro- and anti-Castro Cubans in Miami to Kennedy's death.

Oswald, while stationed at a classified U-2 base in Japan as a U.S. Marine, would have had his security clearance adjudicated by the Office of Naval Intelligence.

Bush's role as a CIA operative in the Bay of Pigs invasion, a military action in which the Office of Naval Intelligence was closely involved, suggests that the other links between Bush, ONI, and the anti-Castro Cuban exiles are not benign.

...George H. W. Bush has still other, more oblique links to Kennedy assassin. The Houston-based conspirator James Parrott, Guy Bannister was a fervent John Bircher.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
197. The Nazi Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination
The late Mae Brussell pegged the WALL STREET-NAZI-CIA-BIG OIL-MAFIA-KKK-ULTRARIGHT Axis for what they are. Traitors.



The Nazi Connection to the John F. Kennedy Assassination

Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy


by Mae Brussell
(from the short-lived Larry Flynt publication The Rebel, January 1984)

EXCERPT...

"Sir" Charles Willoughby -- a Franco-German-American

He was a bull of a man who spoke with a German accent, wore a custom-tailored general's uniform and affected a monocle. A fellow officer in the U.S. army under his true name of Adolph Charles Weidenbach, born in Heidelberg, March 8, 1892. But by the time he became Douglas MacArthur's chief of intelligence for the war in the Pacific, he was Major General Charles A. Willoughby. Behind his back he was derisively tagged "Sir Charles."

For a man of such Teutonic traits it was odd that Willoughby preferred his fascism with a Spanish accent. But this was an accident of geography. While serving as a military attache in Ecuador, he had received a decoration from Mussolini's government -- the Order of Saints Maurizio and Lazzaro. After delivering an impassioned paean to Spanish dictator Generalissimo Francisco Franco at a lunch in Madrid, he was toasted by the secretary general of the Falangist Party, "I am happy to know a fellow Falangist and reactionary.

MacArthur's pre-war headquarters were in the Philippines, whose commerce was dominated by resident Spaniards. The Daddy Warbucks of this crowd was Andres Soriano, who owned an early-day conglomerate of airlines, mines, breweries ("Of course!") and American distributorships. During the Spanish Civil War Soriano was one of Franco's principal money-bags. When the Rising Sun flag was raised over the Philippines Soriano fled to Washington to become finance minister of the government-in-exile. But there was such a fuss over his fascist reputation that he flew off to Australia to become a colonel on MacArthurs staff.

Willoughby accompanied the Supreme Commander to Tokyo for the occupation of Japan. His preferences remained the same; when military police shook down his hotel looking for a fugitive, they found Willoughby at dinner with the stranded Italian fascist ambassador to Japan and members of his staff. He became a heavy-handed censor, suppressing unfavorable news to the States. He delighted in falsely labeling correspondents who defied him as "Communists," a tactic Senator McCarthy would adopt with enthusiasm. But the general's priority project was a dressed-up history of the Pacific War in which MacArthur would be the towering hero. Willoughby brought in Japanese military brass for a view from the enemy side, a move that may have had an ulterior motive. The possibility existed that Willoughby was down-playing Japanese war crimes so that the perpetrators could be protected for use against the Soviets later. This was happening in Germany where the top nazis were writing the history of Malmedy. The tight security in which Willoughby wrapped the project only adds to this impression. One woman had a passkey, the wife of Dr. Mitsutaro Araki, a former exchange lecturer in Germany, who was closely tied in with high nazis in Tokyo and the Tojo clique.

Willoughby harbored another secret that only came to light last year. During the war, the Japanese conducted germ warfare experiments with human beings as guinea pigs (at least 3,000 died, including an undetermined number of captured U.S. military). The Pentagon decided that the biological research might prove handy against the Russians, and the Japanese responsible for the experiments were granted immunity from prosecution in return for their laboratory records. On December 12, 1947 the Pentagon acknowledged the "wholehearted cooperation" of Willoughby in arranging the examination of the "human pathological material which had been transferred to Japan from the biological warfare installations."

As his final public gesture to Franco, Willoughby lobbied the U.S. Congress in August, 1952 to authorize $100 million for the anti-Communist dictator's needs. Then he settled down in the U.S. to do battle with the domestic enemy. As Sir Charles and his right-wing allies saw it, Marxism wasn't the real enemy, the Liberals were.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Na...



Bannister and that ex-FBI ONI Army Intel group of pro-Castro Cubans worked for such turds. These men used war for profit and power. And that's how Dallas happened: President Kennedy opposed them.

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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
60. Very good points. nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
185. Chew on this, please...
As Congressional investigator Gaeton Fonzi reported, the physical evidence of the case alone indicates conspiracy.

Here's some of what he meant, President Kennedy's jacket. The location of the bullet hole indicates he was shot in the back, not the neck.



Gerald Ford's Terrible Fiction

The initial draft of the report stated:
"A bullet had entered his back at a point slightly above the shoulder to the right of the spine."

Ford wanted it to read:
"A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

Find out why here:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Ford-Rankin.html

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
80. The bullet first passed through soft tissue in JFK's neck. That
slowed it down. Then it tumbled, hitting Connely's rib sideways. That's why the nose is intact but the base is dented badly with lead material pressed out of the core.

It's entirely consistent with a shot coming from above and behind the president exactly where Oswald was supposed to be.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Or the TWO men that several witnesses claimed to see in the window...
where Oswald was supposed to be. ;)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #80
186. Never seen, heard or read about a bullet doing all that before...
...or since. When did investigators reproduce that phenomenon?

And how would that be "consistent with a shot coming from above and behind the president exactly where Oswald was supposed to be"?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #80
207. That's the official story of what the bullet did.
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 08:24 PM by truedelphi
here's the unofficial story: (And it is based in part NOT on what the Betheseda Maryland autopsy results showed but rather a New York times article that reported the observations of one of the presiding Dallas hospital doctors immediately after the failed surgery on jFK)

The bullet that hit Kennedy went into his throat and then came out I believe at the back of the head (Which is where the brain tissue that Jackie is trying to rescue on the back of the limousine
comes from)

Think about it. His head is slammed EXACTLY the opposite way it would be slammed if the crucial damage bullet had been fired from the Texas Book Depository.

The shooters were actually standing underground, looking out through the street exposure of the storm drain tunnel street ducts and vents (where the storm water during a heavy rain would pour through) to do the shooting.

In Dallas, the storm drains are positioned so that they are built into the sides of rather high curbs - not built flat into the cement of the street.


After they had done their shooting, the shooters simply turned around and continued until those storm drain tunnels brought them into open air, then they headed for the railroad tracks.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. I know
I was taken aback when he said that-it was also completely out of the left field in the context of his crappy speech.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
174. It was creepy, even for Poppy.
Then again, the guy's not afraid of death -- as in other people's.



Operation CONDOR Kissinger what may await America

More on "Operation Condor," What Horrors May Await America, Kissinger, and the Disappeared


Submitted by BuzzFlash on Tue, 10/10/2006 - 4:21pm. Analysis
A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

In our editorial that caromed around the Internet, "Torture, Murder, Bush, Kissinger and The Mothers of the Disappeared in Argentina: America on the Brink of Horror," we warned that the legacy of U.S. governments particularly under the Rumsfeld/Cheney/Kissinger/Bush leadership through various GOP administrations supporting torture and murder to suppress dissent in other countries may be coming to America.

This is no idle conspiracy theory. As we pointed out in our editorial, the U.S. Congress has now given Bush enough legal maneuvering room to declare U.S. citizens supporters of terrorists. Since Bush has openly accused any American who disagrees with his disastrous "war on terror" a "tool of the terrorists," he is legally now able to "disappear" us. This is not idle theory. We no longer have the protection of habeas corpus, if Bush invokes his powers to fight "terror."

One of the key proponents, over the years, of torturing and murdering dissenters in nations that experience strong challenges to their oligarchies or ruling class elite is Henry Kissinger.

Bob Woodward recently told an interviewer that Dick Cheney called him up and swore at him for revealing that Kissinger is now advising Cheney and Bush.

We thought that for the record, we would amplify a bit the comment we made in our editorial that Kissinger avoids traveling to a number of nations because he would face judicial questioning about his role in "Operation Condor."

Here is one summary from Wikipedia that illustrates BuzzFlashs point:

    On May 31, 2001, French judge Roger Le Loire requested a summons served on Henry Kissinger while he was staying at the Htel Ritz in Paris. Loire claimed to want to question Kissinger for alleged U.S. involvement in Operation Condor as well as the death of French nationals under the Chilean junta. As a result, Kissinger left Paris that evening, and Loire's inquiries were directed to the U.S. State Department.

    In July 2001, the Chilean high court granted investigating judge Juan Guzman the right to question Kissinger about the 1973 killing of American journalist Charles Horman, whose execution at the hands of the Chilean military following the coup was dramatized in the 1982 Costa-Gavras film, Missing. The judges questions were relayed to Kissinger via diplomatic routes but went unanswered.

    In August 2001, Argentine Judge Rodolfo Canicoba sent a letter rogatory to the US State Department, in accordance with the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT), requesting a deposition by Kissinger to aid the judge's investigation of Operation Condor. <11>

    On September 10, 2001, a civil suit was filed in a Washington, D.C., federal court by the family of Gen. Ren Schneider, former Commander-in-Chief of the Chilean Army, asserting that Kissinger gave the order for the elimination of Schneider because he refused to endorse plans for a military coup. Schneider was killed by coup-plotters loyal to General Roberto Viaux in a botched kidnapping attempt, but U.S. involvement with the plot is disputed, as declassified transcripts show that Nixon and Kissinger had ordered the coup "turned off" a week prior to the killing, fearing that Viaux had no chance. As a part of the suit, Schneiders two sons are attempting to sue Kissinger and then-CIA director Richard Helms for $3 million. On September 11, 2001, the 28th anniversary of the Pinochet coup, Chilean human rights lawyers filed a criminal case against Kissinger along with Augusto Pinochet, former Bolivian general and president Hugo Banzer, former Argentine general and dictator Jorge Rafael Videla, and former Paraguayan president Alfredo Stroessner for alleged involvement in Operation Condor. The case was brought on behalf of some fifteen victims of Operation Condor, ten of whom were Chilean.


CONTINUED...

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/121



If the puking turdball thinks it's OK to murder thousands, why would anyone think he would hesitate a minute to see one person standing in his way eliminated?
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Capn Amerika Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. "final definitive" what a redundant thing to say.
Sounds like Poppy is trying to chase away his ghosts before he kicks the bucket. The Warren Commission has neither the "final" word nor the "definitive" word. One, anybody may speculate on what happened that fateful day. Two, the House Committee on Assassinations had the final "official" word on the topic, they said that a conspiracy most likely occurred in that there was more than one shooter. Three, this committee by it's mere existence nullifies the Warren Committee as the "definitive" word.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
177. Countering Criticism of the Warren Report
Thank you for understanding. Poppy prudently used the solemn occasion to hammer home a point, as in "Point that finger away from me Jerry-o."

Poppy knows if he's first to put an idea in people's heads, it's more likely to stick and harder to drive out later -- even with the truth.

That's why marketers and vice peddlers prey on the young and PsyOps pros prey on most everybody:

About three years after the death of President John F. Kennedy, it became a matter of official CIA policy to denigrate anyone who disagreed with the Warren Commission conclusion of Oswald as the lone gunman. So, the agency ordered its "media assets" to label anyone who disagreed with the Big Lie as a "conspiracy nut."

According to Ace R. Hayes: Three decades ago (4 January 1967), the CIA produced adocument (#1035-960), "Countering Criticism of the Warren Report." This document was partly declassified under an FOIA, September 1976. It is the blueprint for employing "CIA media assets" to smear critics of the Warren Commission. The justification for this perversion of truth, justice and democracy was clearly stated: "Just because of the standing of the Commissioners, efforts to impugn their rectitude and wisdom tend to cast doubt on the whole leadership of American society."

It must be effective. Ever hear Corporate McPravda say anything nice about Jim Garrison or Oliver Stone?



SUBJECT: Countering Criticism of the Warren Report

1. Our Concern. From the day of President Kennedy's assassination on, there has been speculation about the responsibility for his murder. Although this was stemmed for a time by the Warren Commission report (which appeared at the end of September 1964), various writers have now had time to scan the Commission's published report and documents for new pretexts for questioning, and there has been a new wave of books and articles criticizing the Commission's findings. In most cases the critics have speculated as to the existence of some kind of conspiracy, and often they have implied that the Commission itself was involved. Presumably as a result of the increasing challenge to the Warren Commission's Report, a public opinion poll recently indicated that 46% of the American public did not think that Oswald acted alone, while more than half of those polled thought that the Commission had left some questions unresolved. Doubtless polls abroad would show similar, or possibly more adverse, results.

2. This trend of opinion is a matter of concern to the U.S. government, including our organization. The members of the Warren Commission were naturally chosen for their integrity, experience, and prominence. They represented both major parties, and they and their staff were deliberately drawn from all sections of the country. Just because of the standing of the Commissioners, efforts to impugn their rectitude and wisdom tend to cast doubt on the whole leadership of American society. Moreover, there seems to be an increasing tendency to hint that President Johnson himself, as the one person who might be said to have benefited, was in some way responsible for the assassination. Innuendo of such seriousness affects not only the individual concerned, but also the whole reputation of the American government. Our organization itself is directly involved: among other facts, we contributed information to the investigation. Conspiracy theories have frequently thrown suspicion on our organization, for example by falsely alleging that Lee Harvey Oswald worked for us. The aim of this dispatch is to provide material for countering and discrediting the claims of the conspiracy theorists, so as to inhibit the circulation of such claims in other countries. Background information is supplied in a classified section and in a number of unclassified attachments.

3. Action. We do not recommend that discussion of the assassination question be initiated where it is not already taking place. Where discussion is active, however, addressees are requested:

    a. To discuss the publicity problem with liaison and friendly elite contacts (especially politicians and editors), pointing out that the Warren Commission made as thorough an investigation as humanly possible, that the charges of the critics are without serious foundation, and that further speculative discussion only plays into the hands of the opposition. Point out also that parts of the conspiracy talk appear to be deliberately generated by Communist propagandists. Urge them to use their influence to discourage unfounded and irresponsible speculation.

    b. To employ propaganda assets to answer and refute the attacks of the critics. Book reviews and feature articles are particularly appropriate for this purpose. The unclassified attachments to this guidance should provide useful background material for passage to assets. Our play should point out, as applicable, that the critics are (i) wedded to theories adopted before the evidence was in, (ii) politically interested, (iii) financially interested, (iv) hasty and inaccurate in their research, or (v) infatuated with their own theories. In the course of discussions of the whole phenomenon of criticism, a useful strategy may be to single out Epstein's theory for attack, using the attached Fletcher Knebel article and Spectator piece for background. (Although Mark Lane's book is much less convincing than Epstein's and comes off badly where contested by knowledgeable critics, it is also much more difficult to answer as a whole, as one becomes lost in a morass of unrelated details.)


4. In private or media discussion not directed at any particular writer, or in attacking publications which may be yet forthcoming, the following arguments should be useful:

    a. No significant new evidence has emerged which the Commission did not consider. The assassination is sometimes compared (e.g., by Joachim Joesten and Bertrand Russell) with the Dreyfus case; however, unlike that case, the attacks on the Warren Commission have produced no new evidence, no new culprits have been convincingly identified, and there is no agreement among the critics. (A better parallel, though an imperfect one, might be with the Reichstag fire of 1933, which some competent historians (Fritz Tobias, A.J.P. Taylor, D.C. Watt) now believe was set by Van der Lubbe on his own initiative, without acting for either Nazis or Communists; the Nazis tried to pin the blame on the Communists, but the latter have been much more successful in convincing the world that the Nazis were to blame.)

    b. Critics usually overvalue particular items and ignore others. They tend to place more emphasis on the recollections of individual eyewitnesses (which are less reliable and more divergent -- and hence offer more hand-holds for criticism) and less on ballistic, autopsy, and photographic evidence. A close examination of the Commission's records will usually show that the conflicting eyewitness accounts are quoted out of context, or were discarded by the commission for good and sufficient reason.

    c. Conspiracy on the large scale often suggested would be impossible to conceal in the United States, esp. since informants could expect to receive large royalties, etc. Note that Robert Kennedy, Attorney General at the time and John F. Kennedy's brother, would be the last man to overlook or conceal any conspiracy. And as one reviewer pointed out, Congressman Gerald R. Ford would hardly have held his tongue for the sake of the Democratic administration, and Senator Russell would have had every political interest in exposing any misdeeds on the part of Chief Justice Warren. A conspirator moreover would hardly choose a location for a shooting where so much depended on conditions beyond his control: the route, the speed of the cars, the moving target, the risk that the assassin would be discovered. A group of wealthy conspirators could have arranged much more secure conditions.

    d. Critics have often been enticed by a form of intellectual pride: they light on some theory and fall in love with it; they also scoff at the Commission because it did not always answer every question with a flat decision one way or the other. Actually, the make-up of the Commission and its staff was an excellent safeguard against over-commitment to any one theory; or against the illicit transformation of probabilities into certainties.

    e. Oswald would not have been any sensible person's choice for a co-conspirator. He was a "loner," mixed-up, of questionable reliability and an unknown quantity to any professional intelligence service.

    f. As to charges that the Commission's report was a rush job, it emerged three months after the deadline originally set. But to the degree that the Commission tried to speed up its reporting, this was largely due to the pressure of irresponsible speculation already appearing, in some cases coming from the same critics who, refusing to admit their errors, are now putting out new criticisms.

    g. Such vague accusations as that "more than ten people have died mysteriously" can always be explained in some more natural way: e.g., the individuals concerned have for the most part died of natural causes; the Commission staff questioned 418 witnesses (the FBI interviewed far more people, conducting 25,000 interviews and reinterviews), and in such a large group, a certain number of deaths are to be expected. (When Penn Jones, one of the originators of the "ten mysterious deaths" line, appeared on television, it emerged that two of the deaths on his list were from heart attacks, one from cancer, one was from a head-on collision on a bridge, and one occurred when a driver drifted into a bridge abutment.)


5. Where possible, counter speculation by encouraging reference to the Commission's Report itself. Open-minded foreign readers should still be impressed by the care, thoroughness, objectivity and speed with which the Commission worked. Reviewers of other books might be encouraged to add to their account the idea that, checking back with the Report itself, they found it far superior to the work of its critics.

CS COPY
9 attachments h/w
DATE 4/1/67
1- Satts
8-Unclassified
DESTROY WHEN NO LONGER NEEDED

http://www.namebase.org/foia/jfk01.html



Thanks for giving a damn, Capn Amerika! A hearty welcome to DU!

PS: Have you seen Billy Batson, lately?
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Debra-Conway Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #177
239. Thanks Octafish
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 08:12 AM by Debra-Conway
I appreciate the good information you're giving people here. It's been a long time since this material has been read and a new generation needs to be educated.

Best,

Debra Conway


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #239
249. You are welcome, Debra-Conway! Thank you for all you've taught me...
...and so very many others. It is a duty and a priviledge to spread news, information and history, much of it preserved and protected by you and yours.

Those who remember the nation before November 22, 1963 realize this is not the same country.

What once was a place where anything was possible -- going to the moon and back -- became a place where might makes right and Right makes might and ultimate power comes from the barrel of a gun. Their gun.

Thus, Vietnam dragged on for a decade. And today Iraq has dragged on longer than the U.S. involvement in World War II.

So whenever possible, we must stand up to these warmongering thugs and gangsters. Our weapon they most fear is the Truth.

Without hesitation, you and the team at JFKLancer stood up to say, "No!" to the official lies. In so doing, you have helped preserve the Constitution of the United States.

Thank you for being the fortress and arsenal of Truth, Debra-Conway. You and the many you have armed and illuminated are citizen-truth seekers, spreaders and soldiers: Patriots.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. 'And the conspiracy theorists can say what they will'
Yes, anyone who says anything amiss about the Royal Family is a "nut".
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Sometimes even here
Go figure :eyes:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Oh you got THAT right!
Happy New Year nam78_two!

:hug:
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Happy New Year to you too Bluebear
:hi: :hug:
Always love your posts :toast:!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
179. ''Conspiracy Theorist'' became the mother code for "Nut."
Call me "Conspiracy Nut" or crazy. I don't care which, when it comes to the Truth and my Country.



The Mother of All Cover-Ups

Forty years after the Warren Report, the official verdict on the Kennedy assassination, we now know the country's high and mighty were secretly among its biggest critics


by David Talbot
This article first appeared in the September 15, 2004 issue of Salon.com

EXCERPT

There is one sanctuary where the Warren Report is still stubbornly upheld and where its manifold critics can expect their own rough treatment: in the towers of the media elite. Fresh from assaulting Oliver Stone, not only for his film but his very character (a media shark-attack in which, I must confess, I too once engaged), the national press rushed to embrace Gerald Posner's bold 1993 defense of the Warren Report, "Case Closed," making it a bestseller. ("The most convincing explanation of the assassination," historian Robert Dallek called it in the Boston Globe.) And the 40th anniversary of JFK's murder last November sparked a new cannonade of anti-conspiracy sound and fury, with ABC's Peter Jennings making yet another network news attempt to silence the report's critics. Most of the press lords and pundits in the 1960s who allowed themselves to be convinced that the Warren Report was the correct version of what happened in Dallas -- whether because they genuinely believed it or because they thought it was for the good of the country -- are now dead or retired. But after buying the official version for so long, it seems the elite media institutions have too much invested in the Warren Report to change their minds now, even if they're under new editorial leadership.

One of the great ironies of history is that while the media elite was busily trying to shore up public confidence in the Warren Report, the political elite was privately confiding among themselves that the report was a travesty, a fairy tale for mass consumption. Presidents, White House aides, intelligence officials, senators, congressmen, even foreign leaders -- they all muttered darkly among themselves that Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy, a plot that a number of them suspected had roots in the U.S. government itself. (In truth, some high media dignitaries have also quietly shared their doubts about the official version. In 1993, CBS anchorman Dan Rather, who did much along with his network to enforce the party line on Dallas, confessed to Robert Tannenbaum, the former deputy chief counsel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, "We really blew it on the Kennedy assassination.")

Thanks to tapes of White House conversations that have been released to the public in recent years, we now know that the man who appointed the Warren Commission -- President Lyndon Johnson -- did not believe its conclusions. On September 18, 1964, the last day the panel met, commission member Sen. Richard Russell phoned Johnson, his old political protege, to tell him he did not believe the single bullet theory, the key to the commission's finding that Oswald acted alone. "I don't either," Johnson told him. Johnson's theories about what really happened in Dallas shifted over the years. Soon after the assassination, Johnson was led to believe by the CIA that Kennedy might have been the victim of a Soviet conspiracy. Later his suspicions focused on Castro; during his long-running feud with Robert Kennedy, LBJ leaked a story to Washington columnist Drew Pearson suggesting the Kennedy brothers themselves were responsible JFK's death by triggering a violent reaction from the Cuban leader with their "goddamed Murder Inc." plots to kill him. In 1967, according to a report in the Washington Post, Johnson's suspicious gaze came to rest on the CIA. The newspaper quoted White House aide Marvin Watson as saying that Johnson was "now convinced" Kennedy was the victim of a plot and "that the CIA had something to do with this plot." Max Holland, who has just published a study of LBJ's views on Dallas, "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes," intriguingly concludes that Johnson remained haunted by the murder throughout his tenure in the White House. "It is virtually an article of faith among historians that the war in Vietnam was the overwhelming reason the president left office in 1969, a worn, bitter, and disillusioned man," writes Holland. "Yet the assassination-related tapes paint a more nuanced portrait, one in which Johnson's view of the assassination weighed as heavily on him as did the war."

Critics of the Warren Report's lone-assassin conclusion were often stumped by defenders of the report with the question, "If there was a conspiracy, why didn't President Kennedy's own brother -- the attorney general of the United States, Robert Kennedy -- do anything about it?" It's true that, at least until shortly before his assassination death in June 1968, Bobby Kennedy publicly supported the Warren Report. On March 25, during a presidential campaign rally at San Fernando Valley State College in California, Kennedy was dramatically confronted by a woman heckler, who called out, "We want to know who killed President Kennedy!" Kennedy responded by saying, "I stand by the Warren Commission Report." But at a later campaign appearance, days before his assassination, Bobby Kennedy said the opposite, according to his former press spokesman Frank Mankiewicz. When asked if he would reopen the investigation into his brother's death, he uttered a simple, one-word answer: "Yes." Mankiewicz recalls today, "I remember that I was stunned by the answer. It was either like he was suddenly blurting out the truth, or it was a way to shut down the questioning -- you know, 'Yes, now let's move on.'"

His public statements on the Warren Report were obviously freighted with political and emotional -- and perhaps even security -- concerns for Bobby Kennedy. But we have no doubt what his private opinion of the report was -- as his biographer Evan Thomas wrote, Kennedy "regarded the Warren Commission as a public relations exercise to reassure the public." According to a variety of reports, Kennedy immediately suspected a plot as soon as he heard his brother had been shot in Dallas. And as he made calls and inquiries in the hours and days after the assassination, he came to an ominous conclusion: JFK was the victim of a domestic political conspiracy. In a remarkable passage in "One Hell of a Gamble," a widely praised 1997 history of the Cuban missile crisis based on declassified Soviet and U.S. government documents, historians Alexksandr Fursenko and Timothy Naftali wrote that on November 29, one week after the assassination, Bobby Kennedy dispatched a close family friend named William Walton to Moscow with a remarkable message for Georgi Bolshakov, the KGB agent he had come to trust during the nerve-wracking back-channel discussions sparked by the missile crisis. According to the historians, Walton told Bolshakov that Bobby and Jacqueline Kennedy believed "there was a large political conspiracy behind Oswald's rifle" and "that Dallas was the ideal location for such a crime." The Kennedys also sought to reassure the Soviets that despite Oswald's apparent connections to the communist world, they believed President Kennedy had been killed by American enemies. This is a stunning account -- with the fallen president's brother and widow communicating their chilling suspicions to the preeminent world rival of the U.S. -- and it has not received nearly the public attention it deserves.

CONTINUED

http://home.earthlink.net/~jkelin1/talbot.html



Thanks for giving a damn, Bluebear.



I don't like living under a "King" either.

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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. He doth protest too much, indeed. I noticed that bit. It's called a "tell"
in poker. Thanks for posting that observation. Trying to use the funeral to buttress his claim of innocence in that matter, just as his idiot spawn tried to use the pardon to claim doing something that is almost universally condemned as evil is somehow therefore worthy.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
48. yep, it was telling, indeed
an odd and out-of-place and innappropriate time to bring it up, which means that there is something more than what is in front of the curtain.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
189. 2 Dead Presidents And Operation Mockingbird
Thanks, ConsAreLiars. A "Tell" is exactly what it was.

Tom Siebert puts things in perspective and explains why so many are trying so hard to bury the Truth about the assassination of President Kennedy:



2 Dead Presidents And Operation Mockingbird

Commentary by Tom Siebert, Friday, Jan 5, 2007 8:01 AM ET

Watching the mainstream and online media begin to "confuse" Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama with Al Qaeda terrorist scum Osama bin Laden reminded me of Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's ultra top-secret project.

Operation Mockingbird came to light in the U.S. Senate's Church Committee investigation, led by Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) in 1975, during the Gerald Ford Administration. It was launched following Watergate, which not only revealed that Richard Nixon was a paranoid borderline fascist, but that the CIA and FBI were full of rogue agents doing lots of illegal things.

One of those illegal things was a successful CIA effort to influence domestic and foreign media called Operation Mockingbird. Begun in 1948, it recruited top publishers and reporters throughout the media, including Washington Post Publisher Philip Graham, managing editor Ben Bradlee, The New York Times' publishing patriarch Arthur Hays Sulzberger and CBS CEO William Paley. These are just the biggest names; there are many, many more. Do a Google search and some names will surprise (or perhaps sicken) you.

SNIP...

I'd forgotten that for a long time, the now notorious Zapruder film, which shows Kennedy's murder in excruciating detail--and all but destroys the notion of a lone gunman--was kept from public viewing. The exclusive rights to the short snuff film were purchased by Time-Life magazine. The public was only allowed to see stills from the film until it was subpoenaed by attorney Jim Garrison in 1969 for his conspiracy trial against Clay Shaw, charged with participating in the JFK assassination.

The Zapruder film was the close-to-concrete proof that the results of the Warren Commission, which investigated the JFK murder, was built around a central lie: the so-called "Magic Bullet." The theory: one bullet caused all Kennedy's wounds but the head wound, as well as all the wounds on Texas Governor John Connelly.

How do we know the Warren Commission lied?

Commission member Gerald Ford said so in an Associated Press story from 1993. He didn't really want to, of course, but the Assassination Review Board--which reopened the JFK assassination investigation after the Church Committee's report--discovered handwritten notes from Ford, which revealed that he changed the phrasing and omitted several key words from the Warren Commission's original draft that altered the facts about where the "Magic Bullet" entered Kennedy's body, making sure it supported the lone gunman theory.

Is Operation Mockingbird back in business? Beats me. If it were, and even if some members of the media knew about it, perhaps they are being kept quiet because it might affect matters of national security. I do find it interesting that the nonprofit Center for Media and Democracy recently removed all its material about the project. The center has not returned my phone call or email asking about that development.

One final thing: Here's a great, on the record quote from William Colby, former director of the CIA: "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

CONTINUED with Links...

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=...



It was no eulogy, it was yet another alibi.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #189
280. happily, the CIA doesn't "own everyone of any significance" who blogs
:)
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but that was SO WEIRD.
And even weirder was the burst of inappropriate laughter he gave after he said "After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy..." It was like he said it and then smiled and chuckled nervously, as if to say, hah! What a joke! And the way he phrased the job of the Warren Commission: "to make sense of that madness"! They were supposed to "make sense" of an assassination? And how does one "make sense" of "madness," after all? How can "madness" make sense? Or is the implication that their task was to "make sense" of what seemed to be an act of "madness"? And how does one do that? By assigning blame to one person and giving him a "reason" for his act? As if there could ever be a good "reason" to assassinate someone? Is that how we "make sense" of "madness"?

It was just too strange. And when I saw how he laughed at the talk of the deluded gunman, I got chills.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Perhaps he's rehearsing for his own day of reckoning.
There seems to have been a lot of odd speeches at Ford's funeral. Both Dick and Bush the Lesser took that time to remind everyone how wonderful that pardon thing was...how it healed the country. Sometimes the unconscious mind manages to get its points communicated consciously.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
93. I definitely think they were prepping the country for pardons to come
both from W and for W.

:grr:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
250. Poppy LAUGHED.
"After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy (heh)..."

Well, Lee Harvey Oswald never did have his day in Court. And We the People never got a chance to ask him a single question.

Here's a nice copy of the video where we can see where a dim son would get his father's creepy features.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlay...

In addition to the inappropriateness of bringing up Chevy Chase and his own comedy routine with Dana Carvey, it was odd how he hit "...a Time to Kill" just right.

There is nothing funny about the murder of the last Liberal President of the United States.

In fact, like you, Berry Bush, I want to see the criminals behind the assassination brought to Justice.


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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
37. it shocked me to hear Poppy say that
And here's what I think. I think that Poppy was "borrowing" the current high praise of Ford as an honest, solid man to bolster the official theory of JFK assassination KNOWING that so many people think he, Poppy, was part of the plot. It was opportunistic. Poppy: "Gee. I'll use Ford's current high regard to help slam that door for good."

Farkin bastiche.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
192. Not-Guilty by Association...
...is about the best he can hope for. The docuemnts raise some big questions and, as you so well summed up, the American people are noticing.

"Gee. What about all those anti-Castro Cubans from "The Bay of Pigs Thing" who later turn up in Watergate, Operation CONDOR and Iran-Contra?"



Tyrannys healer, democracys assassin: The true legacy of Gerald Ford

By Larry Chin
Online Journal Associate Editor
Jan 1, 2007, 02:19

Gerald Ford, like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan before him, is being posthumously deified. A real and dark history is being rewritten in a haze of nostalgic foolishness and distortion. In fact, Ford was a lifelong political criminal and a liar, like every modern US president. Ford fed, nourished and protected tyranny, laying the foundation for the unabashedly criminal empire of Bush, and decades of war and destruction.

Master of cover-up

SNIP...

In the 1970s, as the deep criminality of the Nixon executive branch exploded in the face of the American people, Ford pardoned Nixon -- shutting the door and sealing the book on the Watergate crime, denying the American people another opportunity to see how their government really works. This rape of democracy has been characterized as healing and moral leadership. Worse, as revealed by recent Washington Post reports by Bob Woodward, Ford was not (as revised histories have declared him to be) an impartial man who simply acted on behalf of national interests. Ford was Nixons true friend and most trusted confidant throughout the scandal, and promised Nixon that he would do anything he wanted done, morning, noon or night. He delivered.

Viewed against the fact that the JFK and Watergate crimes were connected, Fords role atop cover-ups of both scandals becomes even more factually sinister. There is no doubt that Ford was a man who worked in the thick of the continuous 1960s-1970s milieu that made these operations possible. Ford knew that the same politicos (George H.W. Bush, Nixon, etc.), underworld figures, corporate executives, intelligence agencies, covert operatives and hit teams (the CIA Plumbers team of E. Howard Hunt; Frank Sturgis; Felix Rodriguez, etc.) at the helm of both crimes. There is a wealth of solid investigation on all of this, Mark Lanes Plausible Denial, the work of Peter Dale Scott, and The Assassinations by Jim diEugenio and Linda Pease, to name a few.

SNIP...

Godfather of national security

As president, the real Gerald Ford was hardly the bumbling idiot of Saturday Night Live Chevy Chase comedy skits. He was a Cold Warrior no less ruthless than Nixon himself, and with fellow Trilateralist Nelson Rockefeller beside him as vice president, and Henry Kissinger fully in control of foreign policy, US-led geopolitical terror continued throughout the world, from Cambodia and East Timor, to the Middle East (planting the seeds of the modern Middle East calamity and Grand Chessboard wars) and Latin America.

SNIP...

In recent days, the Washington Post released details of an interview with Bob Woodward on todays war. A cover-up specialist and Republican to his last breath, Ford ordered Woodward to keep this interview secret until his death (and Woodward, himself a gatekeeper, complied). In this exchange, Ford admitted being dumbfounded by the George W. Bush administrations domestic spying activities, and said that he opposed going into Iraq. It speaks volumes about the depths of the current administration that the proteges (Cheney, Rumsfeld) no longer heed the advice or follow the lead of the crafty politician who shaped them.

CONTINUED...

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1587.sh...



From what I know, JFK was killed because he didn't believe the ends justified the means in the Cold War.

Presidents since then, on the whole, have been wont to use the military and the clandestine services in whatever lethal capacity to accomplish what they want.

So, Bush and the people he serves are showing signs they are worried that the Truth will out while they live.

May they live long lives, so they see their evil works exposed and destroyed.



Thanks also for giving a damn, grasswire. Very much appreciate your understanding.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
38. He is likely from the school of "Say it publicly, and hector people about it, and maybe they'll be
cowed into believing you." Good luck with that, Pops!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
58. Bingo!
.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
201. Too bad Poppy didn't speak at Pinochet's funeral.
He could hector us with more slices of the Big Lie.



Pinochet's Death Spares Bush Family

By Robert Parry
December 12, 2006

Gen. Augusto Pinochets death on Dec. 10 means the Bush Family can breathe a little bit easier, knowing that criminal proceedings against Chiles notorious dictator can no longer implicate his longtime friend and protector, former President George H.W. Bush.

Although Chilean investigations against other defendants may continue, the cases against Pinochet end with his death of a heart attack at the age of 91. Pinochets death from natural causes also marks a victory for world leaders, including George H.W. and George W. Bush, who shielded Pinochet from justice over the past three decades.

The Bush Familys role in the Pinochet cover-up began in 1976 when then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush diverted investigators away from Pinochets guilt in a car bombing in Washington that killed political rival Orlando Letelier and an American, Ronni Moffitt.

The cover-up stretched into the presidency of George W. Bush when he sidetracked an FBI recommendation to indict Pinochet in the Letelier-Moffitt murders.

Over those intervening 30 years, Pinochet allegedly engaged in a variety of illicit operations, including terrorism, torture, murder, drug trafficking, money-laundering and illicit arms shipments sometimes with the official collusion of the U.S. government.

In the 1980s, when George H.W. Bush was Vice President, Pinochets regime helped funnel weapons to the Nicaraguan contra rebels and to Saddam Husseins Iraq, an operation that also implicated then-CIA official Robert M. Gates, who will be the next U.S. Secretary of Defense.

CONTINUED...

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/121106.html



Sorry if this is old news, MADem. It's news to, apparently, a majority of Americans, if not DUers.

Thanks for understanding. And thanks for giving a damn.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
39. "I am not a crook".
Or, "I was not a crook forty three years ago".

Whose mind is that on, and why?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
196. Admiral Moorer, General Haig and the Nixon White House
These guys all are so crooked they can't pee straight. The Pentagon spied on Nixon and his cronies.



ADMIRAL MOORER, GENERAL HAIG AND THE NIXON WHITE HOUSE

by Frederick J. Graboske

None of the recent obituaries of former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) Admiral Thomas Moorer mentioned the most salient event of his tenure: the exposure of a military spy ring within the National Security Council (NSC) staff, operating under his cognizance. The so-called MoorerRadford affair was a hot topic in the Oval Office for several days, as I know from my experience as supervisory archivist in charge of processing the White House tapes. President Richard Nixon and his closest aides regarded it as a very serious affair. Some historians have likened it to the 1960s novel Seven Days In May.

Before discussing the affair and its implications, I should start by tracing a bit of the history of the NSC. Under President Dwight Eisenhower it served its statutory function as a coordinating agency among the defense, foreign policy, and intelligence communities. It generated endless studies and updated them frequently. During this period the JCS established a liaison staff within the NSC; the liaison staff's presence facilitated the development of the coordinated plans and policies. Starting with the Kennedy administration the NSC staff began to play a larger role in the initiation and even execution of plans and policies. Thus began the politicization of the NSC staff that continues to this day. By politicization I do not mean Republican/Democrat partisanship; rather, this is bureaucratic in-fighting, as between the Departments of State and Defense.

Lt. Gen. Charles Cooper wrote an article several years ago about a meeting between Johnson and the JCS. Cooper was present as an aide to the Marine Commandant, General Wallace Greene. As Cooper describes the events, the Chiefs began their briefing only to be interrupted by Johnson, who told them with considerable vulgarity that they were fools, that he knew more about military policy than they, and that he would tell them how to conduct the war in Vietnam. General Greene confirmed this account in a personal conversation with me.

Johnson's perception of the Chiefs' ineptitude was in large part a result of their inability to agree on a coordinated strategy for Vietnam. In 1964 Air Force Chief of Staff General Curtis LeMay argued, as the Air Force does to this day, that massive bombing would solve the problem. General Greene agreed with LeMay on the need for bombing North Vietnam, but he also argued for the Marines' traditional littoral warfare: seize the coastal population centers and work outward from them. The Army used its World War II experience to argue for large search-and-destroy operations, assuming that the enemy could be forced to engage in pitched battles, in which superior American firepower would prove decisive. Army General Earle Wheeler was the Chairmen during this period, so the Army's policies went into effect, absent any consensus from the JCS. Greene believed that Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and his "whiz kids" preferred to run the war on their own with little reference to the Chiefs' opinions. He was convinced that, if Johnson and McNamara botched the war, they would blame the JCS.

All during this period the JCS maintained their liaison office in the NSC. Increasingly it became a conduit of information from within the NSC to the JCS about Presidential planning that the Chiefs would not otherwise have known. The Chiefs likely gave at least some of this information to Representative Melvin Laird, then the ranking Republican minority member of the House Armed Services Committee. (When later apprised of the Moorer-Radford affair, Laird remarked that something like it had been going on for a long time, leading to my suspicion that he was a recipient of the Chiefs' "take" from the NSC.)

http://www.watergate.com/stories/obit.asp

CONTINUED...

Frederick J. Graboske served 12 years in the National Archives as supervisory archivist in charge of processing the Nixon tapes. He subsequently served 30 months on the NSC staff. He now is head of the Marine Corps archives.



Poppy wasn't the trigger fellah, but he worked for the guy who pulled the strings and called the shots.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. k&r'd. nt
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
203. The Kennedy Assassination: The Nixon-Bush Connection
Nixon said "Fire everyone, except Bush. He'll do anything for our side."

Gee. Wonder what the definition of "anything" is.



The Kennedy Assassination:
The Nixon-Bush Connection


by Paul Kangas

Note: All references to "George Bush" refer to George Herbert Walker Bush, Father of George "Dubya" Bush who was "elected" pResident by a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court.

A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez.

SNIP...

On the day of the assassination Bush was in Texas, but he denies knowing exactly where he was. Since he had been the supervisor for the secret Cuban teams, headed by former Cuban police commander Felix Rodriguez, since 1960, it is likely Bush was also in Dallas in 1963. Several of the Cubans he was supervising as dirty-tricks teams for Nixon, were photographed in the Zagruder film.

SNIP...

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

CONTINUED...

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thenixonbushconnectiontot...



Thanks for giving a damn, snot!
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
43. Keeping the lie going as if were truth...Look who was there....
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 03:42 AM by GreenTea
Bush, Nixon, Johnson, Hoover, all in Dallas 11-22-63

Hoover gets a lifetime appointment as head of the FBI from LBJ shortly after JFK assassination.

Also in Dallas that same day...H L Hunt

Hunt funded two right-wing radio shows, Facts Forum and Life Line. He used these radio stations to support the anti-communist campaign of Joseph McCarthy. He also helped to finance the political career of (Texan) Lyndon B. Johnson. A member of the John Birch Society, Hunt was a close friend of Edwin Walker.

"On the eve of the assassination, Hoover and Nixon attended a meeting together at the Dallas home of (ultra-right wing Texan) OIL baron Clint Murchison. Among the subjects discussed at this meeting were the political futures of Hoover and Nixon in the event President Kennedy was assassinated."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFK ...

Ex-CIA director Allen Dulles (whom JFK fired) and Republican Arlen Specter & future appointed US President, Republican Gerald Ford, all part of the Warren Commission "investigating" the JFK assassination.

Lifetime appointee, J Edgar Hoover (FBI) plays ball, goes along with the Commission report. (But also let's it be known, CIA-George H W Bush was also in Dallas that day).

http://www.tarpley.net/bush8b.htm

Nixon has George Bush Sr., Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Richard Armitage in administrative posts during his presidency.

Looks who's in charge now....The same cabal!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
127. it's the same cabal, all right, along with their "just in the family" adjuncts
They must be shitting their pants with Junior screwing everything up in Iraq and a lot of investigations coming their way. Some Dem ought to ask a question about the Kennedy assassination.

All the cabal in Dallas the day Kennedy was shot---that is just too much of a "coincidence."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
248. IF that meeting happened. And IF it can be proven these people were there...
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 09:43 PM by Octafish
...It would put in the public record the names of traitors.

While many, if not all, of them would have since gone to meet their Maker, their works would still be with us today.

The offspring of these Swastika-sucking turdballs would be enjoying the evil fruit of their labors. Living the high life, so to speak.

And that is why they would go to such murderous lengths to keep this information out of the public consciousness.

They know that once enough people know how these connected ultra-kkkonservatives got rich, they would be liable to lose their ill-gotten gains and positions of priviledge.

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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
44. In 1975 the Senate select comity on assassinations began to investigate the CIA role in the Kennedy
assassination. William Colby was director of the CIA at the time and was fully cooperating. He testified that Gorge Bush and E. Howard Hunt were present at the assassination and were in charge of the shooters. Although he said, Bush and Hunt werent really in charge; they were just taking orders from civilians like lan Dulles and the Rockefellers. Suddenly Colby was fired by then President Ford, and out of the blue, supposable with no CIA experience, Gorge bush was appointed as the new CIA director and ended cooperation with the CIA select committee and was able too successfully shut down the Kennedy assassination investigation.
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Myrmidon Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
52. Wow.. I knew that was the gist of it, but wow.
Any links to back up the quote?
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #52
64. The statement is made in the movie jfk2.
I have been looking myself for documentation too back it up.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
151. just heard on the news today NY Times has article about Nixon's attempt to rid CIA of those who
were "disloyal." I don't have the article and no time to look up now. Can anyone help?

Maybe someone on the Times is a "conspiracy theorist," too. Seems like we're closing in on something big and the net is finally helping us solve a cold case.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
45. His "eulogy" was TOTALLY inappropriate.
If I were a member of Ford's family I would be PISSED. How dare the treasonous, rat bastard use the man's funeral to "catapult the propaganda"? It's genetic with these criminals. It has to be. F*cking lowest of low. Little Lord Pissypants followed Poppy's lead...blah, blah, blah. Could they make their LIP SERVICE any more obvious? It was disgusting.

Notice how Poppy wasn't asked to be an Honorary Pallbearer? Hmmmmmmmm...



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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
138. I totally agree!!! It was totally self serving!!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #45
261. Poppy's Alibi
"...a deluded gunman (Pause. Laugh. Smirk.) assassinated President Kennedy..."

If you're a bad guy, there's no good reason for bringing that up. At all.

Unless, you're starting to go batty. Crazy over something that happened long ago. Something anybody who studies soon learns is amiss...



The Warren Commission Revisited

Forty Years of Lies


By JOHN CHUCKMAN
CounterPunch November 12, 2003

"If, as we are told, Oswald was the lone assassin, where is the issue of national security?" -- Bertrand Russell

Bertrand Russell's penetrating question, one of sixteen he asked at the time of the Warren Commission Report, remains unanswered after forty years. That should trouble Americans, but then again there are many things around national secrecy today that should trouble Americans.

SNIP...

These documents were suppressed originally in the name of national security, but the fact is, despite their release, much of their content is heavily blacked out, and dedicated researchers know many documents remain unreleased, particularly documents from the CIA and military intelligence. Would any reasonable person conclude anything other than that those documents are likely the most informative and sensational?

SNIP...

As it happens, the two things, Cuba and the assassination, are intimately related. Almost no one who studies the assassination critically can help but conclude it had a great deal to do with Cuba. No, I don't mean the pathetic story about Castro being somehow responsible. That idea is an insult to intelligence.

SNIP...

If you were a serious, aspiring assassin, associated with Castro and living in the United States during the early 1960s, you would not advertise your sympathies months in advance as Oswald did. You would not call any attention to yourself. It is hard for many today to have an adequate feel for the period, a time when declaring yourself sympathetic to Castro or communism could earn you a beating in the street, quite apart from making you the target of intense FBI interest. Oswald was physically assaulted for his (stagy) pro-Castro efforts in New Orleans, and he did receive a lengthy visit from the FBI while held briefly in jail, but this was not new interest from the agency since he was already well known to them.
SNIP...

The Warren Commission did no independent investigation (it did not even examine the autopsy photos and x-rays), adopting instead the FBI as its investigative arm at a time when the FBI had many serious matters to explain. The FBI had failed to have Oswald's name on its Watch List even though they were completely familiar with him, seeing him at intervals for unexplained reasons. His name even had appeared earlier in an odd internal FBI advisory memo signed by Director Hoover. The FBI also had failed to act appropriately on an explicit threat from a known source recorded well before Kennedy went to Dallas. And the agency destroyed crucial evidence.

SNIP...

Oswald's background is extraordinary. By the standards of the 1950s and early 1960s, aspects of his life simply make no sense if viewed from the official perspective. Here was a Marine, enlisted at 17, who mysteriously started learning Russian, receiving communist literature through the mail, and speaking openly to other Marines about communism - none of which in the least affected his posting or standing.

He became a defector to the Soviet Union, one who reportedly threatened to give the Soviets information about operations of the then top-secret U-2 spy plane. Some even assert he did provide such information, making it possible for a Soviet missile to down Gary Power's U-2 plane just before the Eisenhower-Khrushchev summit. Unlikely as that is, for Oswald would certainly have been treated harshly on his return to the United States were it true, he did know some important facts about the U-2's capabilities, because this Russian-studying, communist literature-reading Marine was posted at a secret U-2 base in Japan as a radar operator before his defection.

At a time when witch-hunting for communists was a fresh memory and still a career path for some American politicians, Oswald returned to the U.S. with a Russian wife, one whose uncle was a lieutenant colonel in the MVD, the Ministry of the Interior, but the CIA and other security agencies supposedly took little interest in him. Oswald's source of income in the U.S. at critical times remains a mystery. A mystery, too, surrounds the connections of this young man of humble means to some well-heeled, anti-Soviet Russian speakers in Dallas after his return from the Soviet Union. His later ability to get a passport for travel to Mexico in just 24 hours - with a personal history that must have ranked as one of the most bizarre in the United States - is attributed to "clerical error."

Oswald, so far as we know, was a patriotic individual when he joined the Marines. There is no evidence that he was ever actually a communist or member of any extremist organization. In fact, there is striking evidence suggesting he did work supporting the opposite interest after his return to the United States. Thus the address on some of the "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets he distributed in New Orleans was the office of Guy Bannister, a former senior FBI agent and violent anti-communist, still well-connected to the agency.

Oswald's connections with the FBI have never been satisfactorily examined. There are many circumstances suggesting his being a paid informant for the FBI, especially during his time in New Orleans. A letter Oswald wrote to a Dallas agent just before the assassination was deliberately and recklessly destroyed by order of the office's senior agent immediately after the assassination with no reasonable explanation.

One way or another, all the major police or intelligence agencies were compromised during the assassination or its investigation. The Secret Service performed abysmally, in both planning the motorcade and responding to gun fire. Some of the agents on duty had actually been out late drinking the night before, as it happens at a bar belonging to an associate of Jack Ruby, Oswald's own assassin. The performance of the Dallas police suggests terrible corruption. The FBI failed in vital respects before and after the assassination. The CIA failed to cooperate on many, many details of the investigation. These facts understandably encourage the more farfetched assassination theories.

The CIA has never released its most important information on Oswald, importantly including documentation of his supposed activities in Mexico City at the Cuban and Russian embassies where every visitor was routinely photographed and identified by the CIA. We may speculate what a thorough vetting of CIA files would show: likely that Oswald was a low-grade intelligence agent during his stint in the Soviet Union, perhaps working for military intelligence to collect information on day-to-day living conditions and attitudes there, one of several men sent for the purpose at that time; that he was trained at an American military school in basic Russian and encouraged to build a quickie communist identity by subscribing to literature and talking foolishly before defecting. We would also likely find that he was serving American security, probably the FBI, during the months before Dallas in the murky world of CIA/FBI/Cuban refugee/Mafia anti-Castro activities; and that in the course of that anti-Castro work, he was sucked without realizing it into an elaborate assassination plot, offering the plotters, with his odd background, a tailor-made patsy. The CIA assessment of Oswald would likely show, just as testimony from his time in the Soviet Union shows, that Oswald was not capable psychologically of acting as an assassin, lone or otherwise.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/chuckman11122003.html



When Poppy piped up, he let us peek into his own sepulchre of a heart.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
46. It' was a very strange thing to say n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
204. Here's a strange picture from 1963.
The CIA did all they could to make out that Oswald was working for Cuba or the Soviets.

They identifited a telephone call to the Cuban embassy in Mexico City as having been made by Oswald.

It turned out that it wasn't Oswald, the CIA later admitted, according to Hoover and LBJ.

http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/newman/newman_1a.html

The CIA also identified the man below as Oswald to the Warren Commission.

Obviously, it isn't Oswald.

Why? Did they WANT a war?





Call on JFK to Soviet Embassy Wasn't Oswald

By DEB RIECHMANN
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (Nov. 22) - Hours after President Kennedy was assassinated, FBI agents reportedly listened to a tape of a phone call that a man identifying himself as ``Lee Oswald'' had placed to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City.

They made a startling discovery: The voice on the tape was not Oswald's, government records say.

This controversial tape has been a question mark in the assassination investigation since Kennedy was killed. The assassination occurred 36 years ago Monday and only now have new details about the tape come to light.

The CIA said years ago that the tapes on which it recorded the call were erased. Documents released in recent years said otherwise. The latest and newest of declassified documents offer more evidence that the tapes survived.

The discovery that the voice on the tape was someone other than Oswald was a ``disquieting discovery because the man who impersonated Oswald was still at large,'' said John Newman, an ex-military intelligence analyst, author and professor at the University of Maryland.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/LHO-Mexi.html



I don't know who in the heck that guy is, but he looks stronger than a circus strongman and meaner than Dick Cheney.



That's mean.

Mean people are the kind who make a lot of money off of war.

A lot of money, since November 22, 1963.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #204
225. This really is a great thread Octafish
Poppy was protesting too much if you ask me. Strange it was the day before that hip surgery.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. VIDEO: JFK II THE BUSH CONNECTION
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #49
243. MyMyMy........What a film to watch.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
50. Randi Rhodes was going nuts over this yesterday. She replayed it several times
and insinuated that Bush Sr. was involved in the assassination. She had a caller that mentioned that Ford actually changed the position of the bullet entry into Kennedy. Bringing it down to his back so that the Magic Bullet theory would fit. I guess that's how Ford made his "bones".

It also gave her an opportunity to hope that real investigations would start on 9/11 with the new congress.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #50
266. JFK and 9/11 -- Insights Gained from Studying Both (Peter Dale Scott)
From a scholar who's exposed much of the hidden history surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy:



JFK and 9/11

Insights Gained from Studying Both


by Dr. Peter Dale Scott
Global Research, December 20, 2006

EXERPT...

So all three Nosair, Abouhalima and Salameh -- had been trained by Mohamed. The FBI had photographed them, and if they had moved on and seized all three of them we probably would not have had the first World Trade Center bombing. And we almost certainly would not have had the so called Landmarks Conspiracy, where there was a plot to blow up other landmarks you just heard mentioned, like the Statue of Liberty.

The police on the case thought at the beginning that they were facing a conspiracy.(79) And yet only hours after the killing, Joseph Borelli, Chief of NYPD detectives, struck a familiar American note and pronounced Nosair a lone deranged gunman. And some time later, he actually told the press - and this is the real giveaway, that There was nothing at Nosairs house, nothing that would stir your imagination. Nothing has transpired that changes our opinion that he acted alone.(80)

So if 47 boxes of incriminating evidence is remembered by this man as nothing, then he either has an astonishingly bad memory, or perhaps this is how the US law enforcement system treats people who are marginally attached to intelligence operations, covert operations, even controversial operations which are opposed by other elements of the US government.(81)

Now Borelli himself was not acting alone in this matter. His position was also that of the FBI, who said they too believed that Mr. Nosair had acted alone in shooting Rabbi Kahane. The bottom line is that we can't connect anyone else to the Kahane shooting," an FBI agent said.(82)

So there is an MO here. And I want to go back to what I was saying at the very beginning. To end up having an unsolvable crime, somebody has pre-selected a candidate or candidates. And the ideal pre-selected candidate will be one about whom the truth will never emerge, because of the candidates controversial involvement in previous covered-up operations. This will ensure that an institutional cover-up, already in place, will be extended to cover the new crime, even if it is a major one.

Oswald was one such pre-selected candidate. Those conspiratorially involved with Ali Mohamed and with 9/11 would also seem to fit the same description. That is what struck me most when I went back to compare the two events, or meta-events: the killings of Kennedy and of Meir Kahane. Both Oswald and Nosair were quickly declared lone assassins, to protect someone or something else.

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArti...

Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=740445811847645...



Thanks for everything, OmmmSweetOmmm. Your giving a damn has certainly helped charge many batteries, mine included.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #266
267. And forever thank you Octafish! I haven't seen this and once again they
use the same modus operandi.
I cannot understand anyone not giving a damn. It still puzzles and frustrates me that one of the biggest crimes against the people of NY, and I am not talking about 9/11 but right after, when the White House and EPA said that the area around ground zero and lower Manhattan was safe for people to go back to their homes, get to work and of course that it was safe for rescue workers too...with no proof at all..and now thousands upon thousands of NYers are suffering lung diseases amongst other things. Most cancers don't make their appearance for decades. When I have posted and responded to such posts on DU, it seems so few care, and the threads last for maybe at most 50 posts, and that is few and far between.Sorry for venting..had to get that out.

And you Octafish have been a clear voice of truth and have taught countless on DU about the Sub-Rosa Government, and if these criminals are not rooted out, America will never be the country that we have been bought into believing it is. It hasn't been Our Country from close to its inception and more and more powers are taking it away from We The People have been put into place...the Federal Reserve, then the Council on Foreign Relations and the black ops of the CIA. Now the North American Union is being set up, and before we can blink our eyes, we will no longer be a sovereign nation. People are being kept well in the dark about this......

How do we wake everyone up?????
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #266
268. Octafish - I just found out about this video today- Link -Assassination of JFK Jr.
It is done by the same person who did JFK II The Bush Connection


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-31794627179084...
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Myrmidon Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
51. I am so heartened by how many people get the Bush connection to JFK
I really felt like the only one. The word is slowly emerging. If ever there was a loose thread that can be pulled to expose these monsters, the Bush 41/Dallas connection (and what it means about Watergate as well) is it. Thanks for doing the work to back up your insinuations with some evidence in the original post!

P.S.
Does anyone have this video? I haven't tracked it down yet.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Who doesn't remember where they were when JFK was killed? I mean, really...
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. And this is where we date ourselves. I am sure there are lots of DUer who weren't
even born then.
But yes, those of us who were alive then do remember, vividly.


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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
94. Except me, who was 2 at the time, but I remember exactly where I was
when Lennon was shot.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #54
69. Poppy Bush doesn't remember. *rolls eyes* I was 8 years old, sitting in my 3rd grade classroom
on the left side of the room, first row of desks and 4th seat back from the front. My teacher walked in crying her eyes out. She told us what happened. That is so VIVID in my mind. I can't remember what I ate for dinner last night, but I will NEVER forget that day and where I was, yet Poppy just can't recall where he was? He's a fucking LIAR...just as Octafish said he is.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Just 12 years old in Junior High School. The Principal came into my Social Studies class and
whispers into my teacher's ear. My teacher blanches. The Principal left the room and my teacher told us that the President had been shot and school was being dismissed early. When going to the bus and on the bus ride home, not anyone of us thought that he could die. When I reached my home I found out from my Mom that he did die. I lived the next few days glued in front of the tv set.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
89. Exactly....
There is NO one, who was alive that day, who does not remember where they were, and what they were doing...NO ONE...it's just that simple, and anyone who says they don't, is lying to cover up something they don't want others to know....check out these names when you have a few...We need to keep working on this...and expose all of those involved, before they drag us into more situations we don't want...I find it fascinating that the elder * almost blew it...I wish he had...IF he gets to the point that he gets too free with info..then he must be getting senile, because surely he hasn't forgotten how loose lips sink ships.....

David Ferrie..private pilot..who spirited assassin/s out of D.?
Carlos Marcello..mob boss NOLA
Clay Shaw...agency man, on the board of...Permindex/World Trade Center?
Louis Bloomfield...Lived in Montreal...what connections to Dallas/Ferrie?
Permindex...red herring?
World Trade Center...another red herring? or was this and Permindex agency fronted companies who were involved somehow..??how about laundering money for the agency/lansky drug trade out of golden triangle...???
Santos Trafficante...mob boss in Florida, that lost all casinos on Cuba when Castro took over, was pissed that bay of pigs failed...Castro was supposed to be eliminated...
Jimmy Hoffa, yes, that Jimmy Hoffa....knew all about the assassination..and who was involved, threatened to tell all... his loose lips, sunk his ship...
Eugene Brading....(Jim Braden)arrested in the Dal-Tex building that day for acting suspicious, and then released w/o being investigated..
Dr. Mary Sherman murdered?...worked with Ochsner..knew Ferrie
Dr. Alton Ochsner had a med. lab...when it was moved into a new building, some supplies and animals came up missing...and an underground lab came into being, where some cooked up a bio/chem weapon to kill Castro with. Hurricane Flora kept this weapon from getting to Cuba, and therefore kept it from being used....but Oswald went to Mexico City to deliver it to a courier...who didn't show up because of Flora...
Judyth Baker..lover of Oswald, involved with Sherman/Ferrie


oh the tangled webs we weave, when we practice to deceive....
check out the New Orleans connections...the French connections...and the drug connections....at the time, all the heroin/opium coming into the US from the golden triangle, was coming through Honduras/PARAQUAY(didn't someone just purchase lots of land in Paraquay???)..check out what was going on in Laos, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia in the 50's/early 60's...there are more connections to this...than you can shake a stick at...

why wasn't there any SS on K's car,(and no it wasn't because he ordered them off..that's an outright lie) why wasn't the bubble on the car, why was the route changed at the last minute...how many shooters were involved?(clue: wasn't just one...try 3, possibly 4)something that's always amazed me, is how no one says a thing about, or mentions how silencers could have been used, and therefore more shots were fired than were heard....what happened to the limo he was riding in, after the assassination???was it returned to DC? was it destroyed...did it just vanish? Lee Harvey Oswald admired Kennedy...he didn't kill him, he was the patsy...and all the things he was doing prior to the killing of Kennedy(handing out leaflets, etc)...he was being directed to do by his handlers, in order to set the stage for him to become the fall guy, which he realized too late....George De Mohrenschildt...what was his involvement, and what did he know? he was conveniently suicided too...seems to me he was the one responsible for Oswald moving from NOLA to Dallas...I read that the pictures of Oswald, with the gun, were faked...

We have to remember, that in order for this plot to have been carried out, and covered up successfully, meant a lot of power was in play...the police force in Dallas almost had to have been complicit, the Dr's at Parkland who supposedly did NOT finish the autopsy, and may have provided false evidence...the news media as they continued to pass pure bullshit off as the truth(catapult the propaganda)...there is a whole lot to this story that is not being told yet, about people who were involved, who are still managing to hide their involvement...we better wake up and smell the coffee though, because those who were in power that day...are today, still in control, even more so now, than back then, and they have their plans still...

there were those that K pissed off, worldwide, there were those he fought with...BenGurion of Israel was one....K refused to give him nuclear technology, and in fact was going to insist on inspectors to find out what they were actually up too..strange how he resigned so quickly...the killing of Diem of S.Vietnam(barely 3 weeks prior) pissed K off(he wasn't supposed to be killed, just deposed)...who was involved in that?...there were things that some wanted, that he wouldn't give...wars that he didn't want, that others did...and we know how all that ended up...the history has been written on some of these things, and cannot be changed...but the truth of this Assassination, and those of MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, Martha Mitchell, maybe even JFK jr., 9/11 and many other things...have not been written correctly yet...and the people involved....well...they are still around...and still a threat...so we better figure it out soon...it's imperative that we do..because the future IS possibly the only thing we can change..

all of this post, is strictly my opinion brought about from all I have read...and willing to read anything more that anyone has to offer...
wb
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
110. I was only 3 years old and I remember where I was...
but, then again, unlike bush sr, I wasn't a CONSPIRATOR
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
122. my thought, exactly. I was in 6th grade when the news came and even an 11 y.o. could understand the
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 09:14 PM by wordpix
gravity of the president being shot. Especially a president my family loved and revered. I even remember my teacher's name who told us the news as she turned on our little b&w TV.

Any prosecutor would make mincemeat out of Poppy saying he didn't know where he was on that day. Really makes him look guilty as hell.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
126. Welcome to DU, Myrmidon!
:toast:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
252. Since 22 November 1963, it's been a lonely vigil for everybody who cared.
First, here's the video where Poppy laughed:

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlay...

Everybody. The nation went down the wrong path on the day President Kennedy was assassinated. Vietnam, Watergate, October Surprise, Iran-Contra, BCCI, S&L Lootings, Iraqgate, Selection 2000, 9-11. One family name is tied to each of those.

Trying to shed light on the assassination is also a most difficult. Paid disinformers have poisoned the information environment to the point where the average person can't tell fact from fiction or liars from the tired. And once a person gets labeled a "conspiracy theorist" they become a "conspiracy nut."

People don't want to be dismissed, so they shut up. "We'll never know in our lifetimes. And anyway. We can't do anything about it." That's why it's so important that people have the ability to meet and talk, whether electronically here or in the town commons of America or anywhere else in the World, including Iraq.

From them will come the ripples of goodness that Robert F. Kennedy described. Once enough people understand each other and what is known, the Truth will reach a critical mass. Then comes a wave of righteousness that will smash and wash away the walls of ignorance and sin. Leaving us to build a future structure from a sound and sure foundation.

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Myrmidon. And a hearty welcome to DU!
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Tanuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
53. Reminded me of Rolling Stones "Sympathy for the Devil"
lyrics here:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling+stones/sympathy+fo...

"Please allow me to introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
Ive been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
cause Im in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or Ill lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
......"
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
258. ''Midnight Rambler'' also spring-heeled-jack's to mind...


MIDNIGHT RAMBLER

Did you hear about the midnight rambler
Everybody got to go
Did you hear about the midnight rambler
The one that shut the kitchen door
He don't give you a hoot of warning
Wrapped up in a black cat cloak
He don't go in the light of the morning
He split the time the cock'rel crows

Talkin' about the midnight gambler
The one you never seen before
Talkin' about the midnight gambler
Did you see him jump the garden wall
Sighin' down the wind so sadly
Listen and you'll hear him moan
Well, talkin' about the midnight gambler
Everybody got to go

Did you hear about the midnight rambler
Well, honey, it's no rock 'n' roll show
Well, I'm talkin' about the midnight gambler
Yeah, the one you never seen before

Oh don't do that, oh don't do that, oh don't do that
Don't you do that, don't you do that (repeat)
Oh don't do that, oh don't do that (repeat)

Well you heard about the Boston...
It's not one of those
Well, talkin' 'bout the midnight...sh...
The one that closed the bedroom door
I'm called the hit-and-run raper in anger
The knife-sharpened tippie-toe...
Or just the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler
You know, the one you never seen before

So if you ever meet the midnight rambler
Coming down your marble hall
Well he's pouncing like proud black panther
Well, you can say I, I told you so!
Well, don't you listen for the midnight rambler
Play it easy, as you go
I'm gonna smash down all your plate glass windows
Put a fist, put a fist through your steel-plated door!

Did you hear about the midnight rambler
He'll leave his footprints up and down your hall
And did you hear about the midnight gambler
And did you see me make my midnight call

And if you ever catch the midnight rambler
I'll steal your mistress from under your nose
I'll go easy with your cold fanged anger
I'll stick my knife right down your throat, baby
And it hurts!

(M. Jagger/K. Richards)

Thanks for getting it, Tanuki.



Liars. Thieves. Gangsters.

Murderers. Traitors. Warmongers.

These are the devil incarnate.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
55. There is a small window that poppy opened with his comments
It would be refrreshing to see that window busted wide open and ignite a public inquiry into the details of one of his crimes.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #55
259. Lessons Learned from 40 Years of Coverup: Mexico City
May light pour through that window...





Lessons Learned from 40 Years of Coverup

Rex Bradford
Delivered on November 20, 2004 at the
Coalition on Political Assassinations Dallas conference

EXCERPT...

MEXICO CITY

We learned a lot more about Oswalds purported trip to Mexico City, which in my view is the Rosetta Stone of the case. Only Im afraid that this is another one of those areas where the more you stare, the more you go blind.

    We learned that Earl Warren was reluctantly brought on board the Presidents Commission by Lyndon Johnson telling him something that Hoover told me about Mexico City. <38> Whatever the something was caused Warren to begin crying. That first week Johnson was bandying about the figure of 40 million Americans dead in a nuclear exchange with the Soviets. <39>

    We learned that, despite denials by the CIA and FBI, a tape recording of someone phoning the Soviet Embassy and calling himself Lee Oswald was listened to by FBI agents in Dallas while Oswald was still alive, and those agents reported that the voice on the tape did not match Oswalds. <40>

    We learned that FBI Director Hoover informed the new President Johnson of all this on the morning after the assassination, and that the tape of this phone call has itself been erased. <41>

    We also learned that the first tapped call involving Oswald between the Cuban Embassy and the Soviet Embassy was probably a fabricated tape or transcript, as neither embassy was open that day. <42>

    We learned that the CIAs translators, as well as David Phillips, remembered a third call, a lengthy call, with Oswald speaking in English and asking the Soviets for money. <43> Such a call, if it existed, has disappeared from the record. Perhaps it was what scared the federal government into a National Security coverup, not the more innocuous visa calls in the record.

    John Newman and Peter Dale Scott have both written about the cables of October. <44> When Mexico City sent a cable on Oswalds visit in early October of 1963, Headquarters sent back a cable to Mexico City which included false information about Oswald, for example noting that the last info on Oswald was from 1962. At the same time, the same officers sent a cable to other agencies including FBI and State, passing along an incorrect description of Oswald. <45> When officer Jane Roman was confronted in 1995 with the cables in an interview by Jeff Morley and John Newman, she admitted Im signing off on something I know isnt true and said that this indicated information held very tightly on a need to know basis. <46>

    We learned that the CIA, besides its telephone tapping and photo surveillance operations, had at least two human informants in the Cuban Embassy, bugged it with microphones, picked its trash, followed Embassy-related people around in vans, monitored all flights to and from Havana and obtained the passenger lists, and on and on. <47> If anybody plotted to murder President Kennedy inside the Cuban Embassy, the CIA would certainly have been the first to know.


CONTINUED...

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkgen/LessonsLea...



The fellah in the above picture was "identified" as Oswald by CIA for Warren Commission "purposes."

Gee. It's like they WANTED a war with Cuba.

Where have we heard that recently, burythehatchet?
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
56. Guilty conscience of a Mafia Don..... n/t
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. Like a killer with a compulsion to brag about his crimes. n/t
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
59. It was definitely weird
It seemed so out-of-the blue & totally irrelevant to the eulogy. Like he was just trying to convince everyone that the Warren Commission was right. Who cares? Why bring it up then?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #59
260. Phony Secret Service Agents in Dealey Plaza
It matters because his dim son is making war,
just like his Poppy and his Poppy's generation made war on Vietnam.
Along with their buddies on Wall Street, they made a killing.



THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE,

WAS THERE

PHONY SECRET SERVICE AGENTS IN DEALEY PLAZA


Michael T. Griffith
1996@All Rights Reserved

"Don't you all come up here any further, you could get shot, or killed..." -- the mystery Secret Service Agent


Some witnesses said they encountered Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza moments after the assassination. These reports continue to be the subject of much controversy. Why? Because it has long been established that no genuine Secret Service agents on the ground in Dealey Plaza until later that afternoon. This fact suggests phony Secret Service agents were in Dealey Plaza, and that they were there to help the assassins escape. David Scheim(1) summarizes:

"After the shooting, Dallas Police officer Joe M. Smith encountered another suspicious man in the lot behind the picket fence . Smith told the Warren Commission that when he drew his pistol and approached the man, the man "showed that he was a Secret Service agent."

Another witness also reported encountering a man who displayed a badge and identified himself as a Secret Service agent. But according to Secret Service Chief James Rowley and agents at the scene, all Secret Service personnel stayed with the motorcade, as required by regulations, and none was stationed in the railroad parking lot . It thus appeared that someone was carrying fraudulent Secret Service credentials--of no perceptible use to anyone but an escaping assassin. (Scheim 30-31)

Not only were there no Secret Service (SS) agents stationed on or behind the grassy knoll, but there were no FBI or other federal agents stationed there either. Officer Smith was not the only witness who encountered an apparently phony federal agent. Malcolm Summers ran to the knoll moments after the shooting. He related the following in the 1988 documentary Who Murdered JFK?:

"I ran across the--Elm Street to right there toward the knoll. It was there --and we were stopped by a man in a suit and he had an overcoat--over his arm and he, he, I saw a gun under that overcoat. And he--his comment was, "Don't you all come up here any further, you could get shot, or killed," one of those words. A few months later, they told me they didn't have an FBI man in that area. If they didn't have anybody, it's a good question who it was. " (Anderson 14)

CONTINUED...

http://www.jfklancer.com/ManWho.html



Thank you for understanding, Marie26. Thanks also for caring.

Mentioning the assassination seemed incongruous.



Perhaps the subconscious cried out, "Confession!"
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
63. Gerald Ford was part of that cover-up too?
Was Gerald Ford a twinkie version of Jim Baker?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #63
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
104. heh....you're going to get that post deleted because of the link....
that was one to which I linked, with the very same story. mods deleted it, sent me a PM saying it was because of the site

not an acceptable site (anti-semitic, I think)

there's an AP story that says the same stuff (is it included in your link?). I have it somewhere, but there are other sites that have the same information. I'll see if I can find another link.....
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Debra-Conway Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #74
238. Read about Ford's Changing the Location of JFK's Wound
Gerald Ford's Terrible Fiction


The initial draft of the report stated:
"A bullet had entered his back at a point slightly above
the shoulder to the right of the spine."

Ford wanted it to read:
"A bullet had entered the back of his neck slightly to the right of the spine."

http://www.jfklancer.com/Ford-Rankin.html

Thanks,

Debra
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
67. That was one of the things I was waiting for, thanks Octafish
I have been satisfied with my Time spent learning at DU. The often prepared script of the mass insanity also known corporate media is in a losing battle trying to keep information from the general public. To state a man's reputation is more important than the facts is what a stupid person would do. The "read my lips" president never was a good liar and prevaricator of the truth. The importance of the lie and being able to skirt around it later can be measured in decades as to know how incriminating it is.

This contemptuous excerpt says it all for me, and is in fact almost laughable on how transparent it seems to be

After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy, our nation turned to Gerald Ford and a select handful of others to make sense of that madness. And the conspiracy theorists can say what they will, but the Warren Commission report will always have the final definitive say on this tragic matter. Why? Because Jerry Ford put his name on it and Jerry Fords word was always good.


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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
88. "Jerry Fords word was always good"
sounds like something a mafia don would say about a trusted business partner.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Also it seems microcosm or just an analogy of how his son * operates
Facts, resources, support and just about anything be damed, * is going to do what he wants when he wants and the only thing that matters is what he himself, the * says.

Not to belittle the situation but more to illustrate how contemptuous they really are. The Hubris of them precedes their arrival to the scene (sort of like a skunk). It is amazing that such an issue would be brought up at a persons Eulogy. Unfinished business of historians for what really should be just a petty matter seems strange. One would think any magnanimous person would forgotten petty disagreements like these long ago :shrug:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
68. Why is it that the findings and warnings of Senator Frank Church
and The Church Committee's 14 reports on the lawlessness and corruption within the intelligence and private sector were ignored, reports and warnings issued ironically during the Ford era as a reaction to Watergate?

In 1975 (speaking about the NSA) Frank Church, Democratic Senator from Idaho and a WWII military intelligence veteran (Burma) said:
"I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."

Here are some more links that need to be added to the knowledge of what we call the BFEE-from and about another Democratic source that had the courage to report the truth then, and was ignored.

"Back to Church" by Chris Mooney 11-5-2001
http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/19/mooney-c.html

"Frank Church and the Abyss of Warrantless Wiretapping" by John Nichols 4-26-2006
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0426-30.htm

"No Place to Hide" by Nat Hentoff 1-13-2006
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0603,hentoff,71743,6.h...

This Amy Goodman interview with the Church Committee's chief counsel, Frederick Schwarz, from May 15, 2006 is exceptionally informative
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/17/159...

Spartacus.Schoolnet profile of Frank Church
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAchurchF.htm

The mourners and speakers gathered around Gerald Ford included a lot of treasonous murdering criminal conspiritors.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #68
90. A ton of information on those links. Thanks.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #90
158. There's been truth for decades, oasis-and truth tellers yet here we are with the BFEE.
Share the truth.
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happy5 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
70. Don't forget that
Bush senior was head of the CIA at some point!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #70
281. Frank Chuch pegged the Crooks, Gangsters, Warmongers and Traitors.
1976-1977. As DCI George Herbert Walker Bush helped derail the Church Committee.

The late Sen. Frank Church was a World War II hero, a Senator at age 32 and on the CIA's shit list since 1961, when he blamed the CIA for the screwball Bay of Pigs operation (Hi, Poppy!). He was an early opponent of the Vietnam War, having himself served in southeast Asia during WW II, he understood better than most what the likely outcomes of U.S. military involvement there to be.



In 1975, Church...

Named Chairman of Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities - investigates alleged abuse of power by CIA and FBI. Reveals CIA involvement in plots to assassinate world leaders, coup against Chile's Marxist President Salvador Allende, covert operations against radical groups as defined by 1. Edgar Hoover, including Martin Luther King Jr., Adlai Stevenson and justice William 0. Douglas. Committee makes 100 recommendations including curbing illegal wire taps, mail opening, break-ins, surveillance, harassment of political dissidents, assassination plots against foreign leaders, and campaigns to smear Civil Rights activists.

SOURCE: http://library.boisestate.edu/Special/church/CHURCH1.HT...



Gee. Must've hit a raw nerve (Hi, Poppy!) The CIA is reported to have used its domestic assets to help defeat Church during 1980 reelection campaign (lost by less than 1-percent of vote). Four years later, Chuch suffered from cancer and died.

On a more cheerful and patriotic note: I appreciate you give a damn and a hearty welcome to DU, happy5!
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
73. K&R
Good to see this on Greatest Page.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
76. A few thoughts ....
"Life does not consist largely of facts and happenings. It consists mainly of the storm of thoughts forever blowing through ones mind." Mark Twain

I thought of this Mark Twain quote, which I had read a couple days before Christmas, when I heard Bush the Elders presentation yesterday. I have a few thoughts blowing through my mind that Id like to add to this discussion.

{1} The Warren Commission did not originally have a "magic bullet" theory. In late 1963 and early 64, they accepted the FBI and Secret Service reports that there were three shots, and that the 1st hit JFK in the back; the 2nd hit Connally (who testified he was hit after the 1st shot); and that the 3rd hit JFK in the head.

This had to be changed because of James Tague, who was standing near the Triple Underpass. He was wounded by a piece of concrete that came from a bullet striking the curb near him. His story had been ignored, until an assistant US attorney from Dallas sent commissioners an account of Tague, complete with a newspaper photograph of the bullet mark on the curb. (Crossfire; Jim Marrs; 1989; page 485)

{2} The role of both LBJ and Nixon are considered by L. Fletcher Prouty in his 1992 book, "JFK." His book was the inspiration for Oliver Stones movie "JFK"; he is played by Donald Sutherland in the film, in the scene where Man X speaks to Jim Garrison.

On page 310, Prouty notes that LBJ called J Edgar Hoover, and asked "How many shots were fired?" and "Were any fired at me?" He says, "We may be sure that he thought during his years as President about those shots that went right over his head. As any soldier can tell you, such an experience provides an excellent education."

He also notes that Nixon was attending a Pepsi-Cola Co. meeting in Dallas. He tells of the general counsel of the company confirming that everyone there, including Nixon, knelt in prayer upon learning that JFK was dead. Nixon would tell a number of untrue stories about his whereabouts. Prouty viewed that as part of Nixons nature as a compulsive liar, rather than any indicator that he was involved. Nixons m.o. was always to avoid being at the "scene" of crimes he was involved with.

Rather, Prouty viewed it this way: "Although Nixon may not have heard those guns of Dallas, there can be no question that they were never far from his mind, especially during the hectic years of his own presidency. Some people say Nixon became paranoid. That would be understanable."

{3} Prouty also notes that Ford was on the Warren Commission, and that Reagan served on the Rockefeller Commission. Both understood what had happened.

{4} A key to understanding the Warren Commission is found in Tip ONeills 1987 book, "Man of the House." (see pages 211-212) ONeill had believed the Warren Commission until the summer of 1968. After the deaths of MLK and RFK, he began to wonder about "lone gunmen." When having lunch with Dave Powers and Kenny ODonnell two of JFKs good friends who were with him in Dallas the two told him that they knew for sure that two shots had come from behind the fence on the grassy knoll.

Tip said that this wasnt what they told the Warren Commission. They explained that investigators had pressured them to lie "for the good of the country."

Lying to investigators is a crime. Pressuring witnesses to lie is also a crime. When it is the investigators pressuring witnesses to knowingly lie, the investigation becomes criminal. We can think of Patrick Fitzgeralds saying about throwing sand in the umpires eyes.

{5} There was an investigation that was reportedly done by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, at the familys request. It is believed to be part of the report contained in the European book "Farewell America." It focuses a good deal of attention on the oil industry. Part II Chapter 10 is titled "Oilmen"; Chapter 11 is titled "Texans."

{6} There are some known connections with oil, intelligence, and Dallas. The best documented one involves George DeMohrenschildt (See Marrs; pages 199-202 and 278-279) George was a petroleum engineer, who was connected with several intelligence agencies. He was also involved with Oswald.

A number of people employed in the energy corporations were either Agency employees or assets. This is the context for the Bush report.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. I posted this above about LBJ's involvement that day...
I didn't want it to get lost in the body of the thread. It is pretty interesting and concerning stuff.



The winking man's name is Albert Thomas. If it had not been for this winking man Kennedy would NOT have been in Dallas that day. He moved up a visit to coincide with Thomas' retirement dinner.

He and LBJ had a long history.

This is from an interview with Thomas' wife...

M: Were you involved with this trip when John F. Kennedy came to Texas in November of
1963 when he was killed in Dallas? Were you involved in any of that?

T: I sat by him that night at the dinner.
M: This was the one in Houston?
T: Yes.
M: Is it correct that both Lyndon Johnson as Vice President and John F. Kennedy were here in
Houston for a testimonial-type dinner for you and your husband? Is that right?
T: Yes, it came about--a group of people--Albert had been saying he was going to retire.
As a
matter of fact, he had made that announcement, so President Kennedy asked him to
reconsider; that he was needed very much; and would he consent to stay on. Of course, he
was ill at that time, but he was certainly able to carry on his work. So then my husband's
friends got up this dinner for him, and they asked my husband what did he think about
asking President Kennedy to come. He said, "Fine," he thought it would be a wonderful
gesture, but after all, he was so busy that he would certainly understand if he did not come.
Much to our surprise he did call my husband one day and said, "I'm coming to the dinner. I
had planned to go to Texas but not at this particular time. Since your dinner is going to be
then, I think I will come."
Well, immediately of course word got out and then all the people
began to make these plans. First, he'd go to San Antonio, then he'd come here, then he'd go
to Fort Worth, then he'd go to Dallas, then he'd go to Austin. Well, it became very
involved.
About a week or ten days later he had accepted and the people had begun to make
their definite plans here. President Kennedy called my husband and said, "Jackie wants to
come also." She had never been on a tour with him just exactly like this so she expressed a
desire to come. Well, when that happened we had to get a larger place because the flood of
people wanting to come then became so great that they had to open it up from the hotels and
other areas and put it in the Coliseum. That's how it happened to be. My husband wanted
to open it up to the public--so everybody could come. But then we didn't have any other
large place. Too, of course, the Secret Service had a say. All along the time my husband
kept saying, "Oh, I hope nothing happens while he's here in Houston at my dinner." I
remember very well when we were driving in. We had a Secret Service man in the car-M:
Was this in the motorcade?
T: Motorcade coming in that afternoon. And he would say, "Do you see anything along the
road?" And he kept looking that afternoon, I remember very well.


Tell me, does the picture of the winking man LOOK like an image of one distressed because his great fear of harm to the president had come true? While all this smiling and winking was going on, Jackie was still covered in her husband's blood.

M: Mr. Thomas was a witness to the swearing-in ceremony of Lyndon Johnson on the plane?
T: Yes, that one picture went around the world because Albert then showed the strain of his
illness and the shock of--. I think it is very pronounced in his expression.


my husband was asked to get back on the plane--I don't know just
how it did happen--but anyway, he was the one that said to President Johnson, "You can't
take off until you are sworn in as President of the United States."
That's how he happened to be right there in front. husband was the first to address Lyndon Johnson as "Mr. President."



More on Thomas and LBJ's activities.
M: Is it correct that the appointment to the Appropriations Committee was the most important?
T: Yes, it was, and that was our first sort of politics within politics.
M: What do you mean by that?
T: Well, President Johnson wanted it also.
M: I see. When was this appointment made? Was this after Johnson was President?
T: Oh, no. That was when he was a member in the House


M: I think one of the most famous projects that your husband was in on was the placing of the
Manned Spacecraft Center.
T: I think he gave about five years of his life on that, because he was so afraid that he wouldn't
get it. It was a terrific thing because there were so many people that were trying to
influence President Kennedy. And, of course, President Kennedy had a terrific decision to
make even against his own state, because MIT wanted it, you see, and California, where
they had the biggest electoral vote of any state almost. So he certainly did favor my
husband and all of Texas, of course, especially Houston.
M: What kind of work did Mr. Thomas have to do to persuade the officials to place the Center
here?
T: Well, I don't know that there was anything other than what was actually here. If anyone
could have seen the area that was selected, you couldn't believe it possible as you see it
now.
M: The land was barren then?
T: Yes. And the Nassau Bay residential area just across from the land was a ranch, it was the
Raymond Pearson Ranch. And this other land was just there.
M: Was that land owned by Humble Oil?
T: Yes, I think part of it was and different people--I'm not familiar with who owned all of it at
the time, but I knew that Humble did and they made it possible that they could purchase it-part
of their area.


M: Where does Brown and Root fit into all of this? Brown and Root apparently built much of
the Manned Spacecraft Center.

T: Well, I'm not familiar with that. I know that there were many people, many construction
companies, connected with it, too; not only Brown & Root, but many others and they
continue to be.
M: Did Mr. Thomas travel down here with the NASA people to inspect the site?
T: Oh, yes, he came at different times. They operated pretty much on their own, and certainly
didn't divulge any of their decisions until it was all given to President Kennedy and he made
the decision.
M: Well, now, Lyndon Johnson was Vice President at the time.
T: Oh, yes.
M: Did he have anything to do with this?
T: Oh, yes, he certainly did because he was very interested that it would come to Texas. And
I'm sure he had a lot of influence in doing that.


http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/Johnson/archives.hom/oralh...
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #76
145. What was the Rockefeller Commission about?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #145
153. See if this
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #153
181. WOW!!!..... A real whitewash. Thanks water man, never saw this.
GHW Bush's name and his cohorts are all over this.

Where the hell have I've been.

Well hell, who needs US JUstice...... The public WILL judge!!!.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
78. K and R n/g
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
81. Sweet.
I can recommend Tarpley's "9/11 Synthetic Terror" if you haven't read it. You probably won't agree with everything in the book (I don't) but a fascinating analysis nonetheless.

BTW, someone transcribed the Peter Dale Scott talk from last month and posted it here;

JFK and 9/11
Insights Gained from Studying Both
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&...
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
82. Sounds like a confession to me.
Poppy will roast in the lowest parts of Hell and he knows it!
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
83. Poppy: "The lie that was Watergate"
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 12:14 PM by happydreams
From the original link.

..And, of course, when the lie that was Watergate was finally laid bare, once again we entrusted our future and our hopes to this good man....

Love how the nasty old fascist prick still has the ability to revise history. The first step in the process of shifting the blame for Watergate onto the democrats and reporters who exposed it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #83
213. You can't fool all the people, all the time.
Unless you have a truly remarkable budget. Then, all bets are off and anything is possible.

I don't have a link, because it's just my take on Watergate and the rest going back to the Bay of Pigs Thing:

The War Party -- the NAZI, Military Industrial Complex, Wall Street, CIA, Mafia, Commie Rat Bastards that are the BFEE -- only like one state of affairs. And that is that they are in political power, command the military, control the banks and money supply. And these crooks use the same to maintain their positions in all three.

Consider Nixon had just opened up relations with Red China and detente with the Soviet Union. Short time later, Dick gets the Watergate ziggy.

Consider Carter, as President-elect, had told the JCS he planned to cutback the nukes and the emPHASis on the Pentagon in order to build a better world. Short time later, he gets the October Surprise ziggy.

Consider Reagan had just given away Star Wars in exchange for the elimination of all nuclear weapons in Reykjavik. Short time later, Ronnie gets the Iran-Contra ziggy.

Poppy did OK. Even with Iran-Contra. Even with Iraq-gate. Even with the S&L Looting. Even with BCCI. Gee. Can it be any more obvious?

The first President who knew what he was up against and stood up to them was John F. Kennedy. Too bad he stood, in the halls of government, pretty much alone. Our world today would be much better off if he had lived and halped lead the development of new generations of Americans who believe anything good is possible. Instead, we are cannon fodder.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
95. Excellent value - added post. Thanks. K&R n/t
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
98. Has Anyone Seen This Documentary?
http://www.amazon.com/JFKII-Bush-connection-John-Hankey...

I haven't and wondered if it would be worth getting.

I don't trust the Bushes. They are murderers. And Bush Sr. was covering his a^^ yesterday.
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LuckyX Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Is this GHW BUSH?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. Too bad there's not a higher resolution picture....but he does seem to have the
Bush slouch. Makes you wonder...
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #100
106. Really hard to tell
Would need to see another picture from that time.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #98
107. I posted a link to where you can view it online at google video. Here is the post.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #107
154. Thank you very much! n/t
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
101. K& R - Poppy's scared!!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. May help explain his recent tears-not to mention his purchase of 98,000 acres
in Paraguay:

Bush in Paraguay (Update) - Escape + Water, Drugs, Oil, etc.


Wednesday, October 18, 2006
Bush in Paraguay (Update)

Wonkette, of all sites, has a superb rundown of a story
:
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/george-w.-bush/we-hate...

we first told a few days ago: Bush the elder has purchased nearly a hundred thousand acres in northern Paraguay, apparently adjacent to, or carved from, the 1,482,600 acres (!!!) owned by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, the Bush family's most notorious friend. Regarding the latter spread, this story (brought to my attention by a reader) is a must-read:

Nevertheless, national Senator Domingo Laino sees a different pattern in Moon's acquisitions. "There are two principal branches to Moon's interest in Paraguay," he said, "control of the largest fresh drinking water source in the world and control of the narcotics business", which is so prevalent in this area.http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif240.html


Oil in region:

Small Talk: South American oil minnow Chaco is worth exploring

By Michael Jivkov
Published: 16 October 2006

The South American oil and gas explorer Chaco Resources may well be worth keeping an eye on in the weeks ahead. Recent news from the AIM group has focused on its operations in Colombia, but word has it that an important announcement is on the way regarding its interests in Paraguay.

Chaco is said to be close to a deal with the government of the landlocked South American country which would double the size of its acreage there. News of the coup for the company could come as early as this week. The bloc Chaco hopes to win sits on a geological structure that runs into Brazil, where it is already producing oil. Given this fact, it is very likely that the Paraguayan side will also prove to be a success for explorers.


http://news.independent.co.uk/business/analysis_and_fea...




Investment firms snatching up power plants, plus three more industry trends explained by Hoover's Editors. Read more or download a free report.

Europe Intelligence Wire/October 14, 2004

Paraguay -- The Reverend Moon has carved out a section of Paraguay that is twice the size of Luxembourg. Seamus Mirodan went to see it

Reverend Sun Myung Moon, spiritual leader of the Unification Church, self-proclaimed Messiah, multimillionaire and a generous contributor to the US Republican Party, has been showing a strong interest over the last five years in little-known Paraguay at the centre of the South American continent.

Since 1999, Rev Moon has built his personal empire which begins on the marshy banks of the River Paraguay and stretches beyond the hazy, level horizon through 600,000 hectares of arid land - equivalent to more than two Luxembourgs - punctuated by solitary clusters of withered trees and sad bushes which struggle desperately for air.

The scorching sun beats relentlessly on one of Latin America's most desolate zones. It is here in the northern province of Chaco, directly above the GuaranI aquifer, the largest resource of fresh drinking water in the world, where Moon's associates claim he wishes to build an ecological paradise.

Nevertheless, national Senator Domingo Laino sees a different pattern in Moon's acquisitions. "There are two principal branches to Moon's interest in Paraguay," he said, "control of the largest fresh drinking water source in the world and control of the narcotics business", which is so prevalent in this area. "President Lula told me that Brazil took serious measures to curb Moon a few years back as it became evident that he was buying up the border between our two countries," said the senator.

-snip

http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif240.html

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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
111. So many coincidences around the BFEE
The evening of the day Reagan was shot, Dubya's brother Neil was scheduled to have dinner with Scott Hinckley, the brother of the would be assassin. Poppy would have become president years earlier had Hinckley succeeded.


Draw whatever conclusions you want. I'm just sayin'
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #111
221. And you're probably right.
I don't think many other people have this one figured out either.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
113. I guess that's what Made Ford a good man to Poppy
and Probably why his death is getting more attention than Ronnie. He was like the cleaner for their criminal activity.

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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #113
132. I wonder what was in it for Ford---or was he just another dimwit who did the cabal's bidding?
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #132
141. People have said it was the presidency.
We will probably never know, but that's a good guess.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #141
152. that WOULD be a good prize for doing the cabal's bidding
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #132
156. Maybe he was promised a lavish funeral
with constant media coverage for weeks on end and to be immortalized as one of the greatest presidents ever.

:eyes:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
114. a happy thought: maybe he's hearing rumors the Democrats are going to dig deep into the shit
and his particular turd won't go untouched.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #114
119. It's never too late to have justice served.
Given all that has transpired over the last decade and the advent of the internet in delivering information, perhaps there are some new Democrats who are willing to press this issue. I'd think Ted Kennedy would have lots of motivation to see the truth exposed for all to comprehend the magnitude of the crimes against this country since that awful day in Dallas 43 years ago.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #114
134. we can only hope. K&R so the Dems in Congress will read this thread
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #134
148. if they don't drag all the vampires into the sunlight, they'll eventually be back even meaner
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
116. He knew he could say anything
and still come off as a genius in comparison to retardo.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
118. The BushCo Skull & Boner Cabal -- Nazis and Dallas. Hmmmmm?
Why do the freepers love these occult cabalists?

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #118
211. The Mongoose Team (Oglesby)
They do what they're told to.

It's part of their kkkulture.

A theory of conspiracy:



Who Killed JFK?

by Carl Oglesby

EXCERPT...

The Mongoose Team

The theory that seems most popular among researchers-Jim Garrison, Mark Lane, Fletcher Prouty, Robert Groden, David Lifton and Jim Marrs among them-is that the assassination was organized "off the reservation" by rogue agents associated with Operation Mongoose.
Mongoose was the code-name for programs JFK set up in the Defense Department, CIA and State Department after the Bay of Pigs to coordinate anti-Castro activities - some of which were aimed at overthrowing him by political and economic means, others at assassinating him outright. To carry out the JFK killing and to cover up their own involvement, Mongoose rogues set up Oswald, a low-level Naval intelligence agent, as a patsy and planted false clues pointing to Cuba, the Soviet Union and the Mafia.
This scenario also provides a clear motive for assassination. Mongoose members-particularly those in Task Force W, a CIA portion of the team - were angry at JFK for his retreat from the Bay of Pigs and what they perceived as his concessions to Communism. As they saw it, LBJ's foreign policy would be a lot better.

This theory also explains how an official investigation could be thwarted and how Oswald, if he were a US intelligence operative in contact with Mongoose members, could have been framed. The difficulties lie not in the theory itself but in the impossibility of evaluating it without obtaining information now classified secret by the US government.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Who_Killed_JFK.ht...





We know for whom the turds toil.
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DrewL Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
121. Look at what the whole point of the Post is...
To political ally and adversary alike, Jerry Fords word was always good.

The whole reason for those two paragraphs are to make the claim that Ford was an Honorable and Honest fellow. H.W. gave two examples of times when honesty were needed, the warren commission, and after Agnew resigned, and Ford was chosen. He only mentioned the conspiracies to discount those who would call Ford's credibility into question.

These sentiments are not inappropriate or (in my opinion) motivated by any sort of ulterior motive, but exactly what most people bring up in funerals, the positive traits of the deceased. One of Ford's positive traits, as H.W. is trying to prove, were his honesty.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #121
135. normally I'd agree with you but links in this thread have now pushed me over to conspiracy side
The biggest issues are Geo. HW Bush's phone call to the FBI on teh day of the assassination, the Pepsi meeting on the eve of the assassination, the whole cabal being in Dallas at the time of the assassination, the promotions of cabal members right after the assassination, Nixon's "Bay of Pigs" code that means "Kennedy assassination" and Poppy et. al. stating they couldn't remember where they were at the time of the assassination.

Too much "coincidence" to ignore, don't you think? But then again, you have to actually read all the links in order to get it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #121
188. Gerald Ford was a friend of a friend of mine.
In Michigan, there are many people who crossed paths with President Ford.

I didn't, but several people I know did. One good friend of mine was a friend of his. They both were in Grand Rapids and got to know each other over the time the Gerald R. Ford Library was being built.

My friend said Mr. Ford was top-notch in every way: kind, intelligent and humble.

My friend knows about my understanding of Dallas and its impact on our nation's history and my perspective on the matter. He agrees that Mr. Ford could never tell all he knew about the assassination.

That said, Mr. Ford, as a member of the Warren Commission and later as President, did all he could to keep certain things secret from the American public. I believe, as does my friend who knew him, he did out of concern for the nation.

I believe that was part of the plan in regards to the Warren Commission. LBJ told Justice Warren that he was needed to lead the body in order to demonstrate to the nation that a lone "nut" could not change policy. Johnson also told Warren that evidence indicated Oswald may have acted on behalf of the Cubans or Soviets. Warren's service on the board and Ford's actions to promote the lone-gunman theory were, therefore, made to avoid a possible nuclear war with the Soviets.

Unfortunately, such a perspective also served to advance the cause of the conspirators.

For facts of the matter:

Gerald Ford's Terrible Fiction

http://www.jfklancer.com/Ford-Rankin.html

BTW: Welcome to DU, DrewL. Very droll.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
123. Another reason why #43 must be punished and truth brought out!
It's getting very crowded under that rug......
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
125. Thanks to this thread I now understand why St. Jerry got a week-long state funeral
I was trying to make sense of that and it's all clear to me now. He was a stooge who helped cover up the REAL reason behind the Watergate break-in.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #125
216. VIDEO: ''After a deluded gunman assassinated President Kennedy...'' then Poppy LAUGHED!
Poppy smirked at what he said, grinned and laughed -- all in about one-third of a second.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlay...

Of course, he did do well when reading from Ecclesiastes, the "Time to Kill" part.

Agree with you, wordpix. Poppy's been there whenever the War Party's been frustrated.

During the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam escalation -- JFK said, "No."

After JFK, it was Vietnam a-go-go.

During detente with the Soviets and the opening to Red China, the War Party felt there'd be less spending and loss of power.

After Watergate, it was Cold War a-go-go.

During Reagan's trip to Reykjavik, where he traded Star Wars for junking the globe's two largest nuclear stockpiles, the War Party felt betrayed.

After Iran-Contra, it was Cold War a-go-go.

During Iraq-gate, the S&L Looting, BCCI -- Poppy was right there. And it's been War Party a-go-go ever since.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #216
274. like father like son
:(
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
131. FWIW I just read Christopher Kennedy Lawford's autobio
and he says that inside the Kennedy family, in their most personal family moments, they were satisfied with the Warren Report and believed that Oswald did it alone. He said his Uncle Bobby Kennedy conducted a thorough investigation of his own using family resources and they felt that the truth had been told and there's nothing more to learn.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #131
199. The mother of all cover-ups
Good to read you, mizmoon.

That may be the official public Family line. Wonder what they would say in private? RFK Senior maintained in public that he supported the Warren Commission report. In his last days, in private, he indicated he wanted to open up a new investigation of Dallas.



The mother of all cover-ups

Forty years after the Warren Report, the official verdict on the Kennedy assassination, we now know the country's high and mighty were secretly among its biggest critics.


By David Talbot

EXCERPT

Critics of the Warren Report's lone-assassin conclusion were often stumped by defenders of the report with the question, "If there was a conspiracy, why didn't President Kennedy's own brother -- the attorney general of the United States, Robert Kennedy -- do anything about it?" It's true that, at least until shortly before his assassination in June 1968, Bobby Kennedy publicly supported the Warren Report. On March 25, during a presidential campaign rally at San Fernando Valley State College in California, Kennedy was dramatically confronted by a woman heckler, who called out, "We want to know who killed President Kennedy!" Kennedy responded by saying, "I stand by the Warren Commission Report." But at a later campaign appearance, days before his assassination, Bobby Kennedy said the opposite, according to his former press spokesman Frank Mankiewicz. When asked if he would reopen the investigation into his brother's death, he uttered a simple, one-word answer: "Yes." Mankiewicz recalls today, "I remember that I was stunned by the answer. It was either like he was suddenly blurting out the truth, or it was a way to shut down the questioning -- you know, 'Yes, now let's move on.'"

SOURCE:

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/15/warren...



Jim Garrison wondered why RFK didn't encourage his investigation. Some report RFK didn't want attention brought to Operation MONGOOSE. I don't think so. RFK could see the systemic opposition to Garrison. I believe Bobby knew he would have to be President himself in order to get the government's police apparatus fully behind him in the effort to prosecute the assassins.

When time permits, I listen to Air America Radio's "Ring of Fire" show with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and his attorney buddy. In their archives are interviews with Wayne Madsen (DU persona non grata). He and his contacts are very much aware of who benefited, who the henchmen appear to be, and who's covered up the assassination. Its my guess these guys are keeping the family up to date on what theyve found. I also wouldn't be surprised if they are the ones helping lead official opposition to the current warmonger.

PS: mizmoon, please know that I've thought a lot of you and your family in these days. Sorry abut the e in one post (an illness in my family clouded my mind).

PPS: Peace, happiness and all the best to you and yours in the New Year.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
133. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush Sr. had been a key player...
In everything important that happened after 1963.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
142. K&R
:hi:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #142
270. bfee
:kick:
:hi:
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
143. Do you have any info on the attempted Ford assasinations???
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 11:05 PM by goforit
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #143
187. ''Weird City''...
...is how Poppy would put the connections.



EXCERPT...

During his Presidency, two crazed women made separate attempts to assassinate Ford. In Sacramento on 5 September 1975, Lynnette 'Squeaky' Fromme, a member of Charles Manson's "family", raised a .45 caliber handgun in Ford's direction. She was wrestled to the ground by Secret Servicemen, but there was no bullet in the chamber of her gun. Two and a half weeks later, on 22 September 1975, an accountant named Sara Jane Moore took a shot at Ford in San Francisco. She missed when a bystander, former Marine Oliver Sipple, saw the gun and grabbed Moore's arm, ruining her aim. Though Ford was not hit, the White House waited three days before publicly thanking Sipple, while staff debated an appropriate response after learning that the heroic Sipple was gay.

Both Moore and Fromme were given life sentences, and both later escaped from the same West Virginia prison. Fromme escaped in 1979, and was captured again several hours later about 25 miles away. Moore escaped in 1989, and turned herself in two days later. Both women were transferred to other prisons, and both remain imprisoned.

SOURCE:

http://www.nndb.com/people/400/000022334 /



Squeaky Fromme was one of Charles Manson's followers. The late Sherman Skolnick raised the possibility of an intelligence community connection to the would-be assassins through players from Big Oil, Wall Street, the Spy-Riddled Oil-Soaked Monopoloy Press and the Military Industrial Complex. Would that Mr. Skolnick were still with us.

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/riwh.html
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #187
233. Unbelievable..... Skolnicksreport. Will we ever be free from King OIL?
Gore? Never heard he was targeted. Here I thought I heard it all.

The shock and awe of it all.

Will we ever loosen from their grip?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #233
235. Bush Senior Early CIA Ties Revealed (Baker & Larsen)
We may get the news out, yet. Look what Russ Baker and Johnathan Z. Larsen found...

Mod Mom and DavidZephyr gave me this great news today.



Bush Senior Early CIA Ties Revealed

By Russ Baker and Jonathan Z. Larsen
The Real News Project January 8, 2007

NEW YORK--Newly released internal CIA documents assert that former president George Herbert Walker Bush's oil company emerged from a 1950's collaboration with a covert CIA officer.

Bush has long denied allegations that he had connections to the intelligence community prior to 1976, when he became Central Intelligence Agency director under President Gerald Ford. At the time, he described his appointment as a 'real shocker.'

But the freshly uncovered memos contend that Bush maintained a close personal and business relationship for decades with a CIA staff employee who, according to those CIA documents, was instrumental in the establishment of Bush's oil venture, Zapata, in the early 1950s, and who would later accompany Bush to Vietnam as a cleared and witting commercial asset of the agency.

According to a CIA internal memo dated November 29, 1975, Bush's original oil company, Zapata Petroleum, began in 1953 through joint efforts with Thomas J. Devine, a CIA staffer who had resigned his agency position that same year to go into private business. The '75 memo describes Devine as an oil wild-catting associate of Mr. Bush. The memo is attached to an earlier memo written in 1968, which lays out how Devine resumed work for the secret agency under commercial cover beginning in 1963.

Their joint activities culminated in the establishment of Zapata Oil, the memo reads. In fact, early Zapata corporate filings do not seem to reflect Devine's role in the company, suggesting that it may have been covert. Yet other documents do show Thomas Devine on the board of an affiliated Bush company, Zapata Offshore, in January, 1965, more than a year after he had resumed work for the spy agency.

CONTINUED...

http://realnews.org/rn/content/zapata.html



Gee. Vietnam? I seem to remember hearing there wasn't any oil in Vietnam.

Oh, that's right. Everything's A-OK. In on it were Bush and his cronies and bosses like Howard Hughes.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #235
241. Loose lips GHWB.... motivating people to discover his crimes. Outstanding
new documents cementing the truth.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #241
275. "read my loose lips: no new revelations"
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
147. GHWB - only ex prez who ever established alibi for his whereabouts
on Nov 22, 1963.

Just a coincidence theory I have.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
149. k & r --- n/t
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
150. kick
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
157. Reminds me of my favorite scene in Macbeth
MACBETH
Blood hath been shed ere now, i' the olden time,
Ere human statute purged the gentle weal;
Ay, and since too, murders have been perform'd
Too terrible for the ear: the times have been,
That, when the brains were out, the man would die,
And there an end; but now they rise again,
With twenty mortal murders on their crowns,
And push us from our stools: this is more strange
Than such a murder is.

LADY MACBETH
My worthy lord,
Your noble friends do lack you.

MACBETH
I do forget.
Do not muse at me, my most worthy friends,
I have a strange infirmity, which is nothing
To those that know me. Come, love and health to all;
Then I'll sit down. Give me some wine; fill full.
I drink to the general joy o' the whole table,
And to our dear friend Banquo, whom we miss;
Would he were here! to all, and him, we thirst,
And all to all.

Lords
Our duties, and the pledge.

Re-enter GHOST OF BANQUO

MACBETH
Avaunt! and quit my sight! let the earth hide thee!
Thy bones are marrowless, thy blood is cold;
Thou hast no speculation in those eyes
Which thou dost glare with!

LADY MACBETH
Think of this, good peers,
But as a thing of custom: 'tis no other;
Only it spoils the pleasure of the time.

MACBETH
What man dare, I dare:
Approach thou like the rugged Russian bear,
The arm'd rhinoceros, or the Hyrcan tiger;
Take any shape but that, and my firm nerves
Shall never tremble: or be alive again,
And dare me to the desert with thy sword;
If trembling I inhabit then, protest me
The baby of a girl. Hence, horrible shadow!
Unreal mockery, hence!

GHOST OF BANQUO vanishes

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #157
257. Brooding Princes Soliloquy
Ah. The Scottish Play. Like Mrs. McB's hands; once impressed thereon, certain images can never leave the mind.

Speaking of the First Folio, Robert Scheer brings up another a favorite involving ghosts and murders foretold...



Brooding Princes Soliloquy


By Mr. Fish (no relation)

By Robert Scheer
Posted on Jan 9, 2007

To surge or not to surge, that is the question. As our prince proposes, once again, to take arms against a sea of troubles, he responds not to the disaster that he has visited upon Iraq, but rather embraces a desperate strategy for salvaging what remains of his reign.

To win, perchance to dream. Few Americans, a mere 17 percent, according to the latest Washington Post/ABC poll, think that sacrificing more Americans in patrols on the streets of Baghdad will reverse the slings and arrows of our outrageous Iraqi fortune, but giving a speech about it might provide our hapless Hamlet with some temporary political cover.

All the world is really watching, proclaimed Bush press secretary Tony Snow, and its important to get this right. Toward that end, as The New York Times reported, The presidents aides were contemplating having Mr. Bush deliver it from the White House Map Room, a site replete with the history and imagery of World War IIimagery that Mr. Bush has invoked as he has sought to compare the campaign against terrorism to the struggle against totalitarianism and the Nazis. But the Oval Office, a more traditional setting, was also being considered.

As for the speechs content, it is by necessity an exercise in the absurd, as the president previewed in his soliloquy for doubting Republican senators his conviction that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has had a profound change of heart. This radical Shiite leader, who only days ago turned over Saddam Hussein to the tender mercies of a mob chanting its allegiance to the even more fanatical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, now is expected to lead U.S. troops in battle against his chief political ally and sponsor of much of Iraqs most deadly sectarian fighting. Even Bush must know by now that those fellows with whom he is in bed over there bear us nothing but hate. Speak not of the pangs of despised love.

SNIP...

He seemed very confident, said Sen. Thad Cochran, a Republican from Mississippi. Im convinced he has come up with a proposal that he thinks will work. But Cochran confessed to feeling lonely in his faith: I think I was the only senator who acted like he would be supportive. I was surprised that no one said it but me.

CONTINUED...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070109_robert_sch... /



Sorry this is so late in reply, Mme. Defarge.

Please know that I truly appreciate that you care and am most grateful that you understand.

Thanks also for one heckuva post!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
162. That was something.
Edited on Thu Jan-04-07 10:51 PM by Cleita
It was sort of like his conscience has been bothering him for a long time but the guilty party had to say:

"Oh, not I. I just off hand had to remember this out of context."
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
164. Out of pace comment. Guilty conscience. Freudian slip.
Howard Hunt might have pulled the trigger, but bet your ass Poppy was in on it. He was just a-headin' into Dallas, cool as a cucumber.

Then he fingers an innocent bunny. Nope. No reason to check out that person who might be trying to deflect guilt from himself (paging Columbo) so badly that he called in a phony tip like a sweaty murderer showing up to the crime scene and chatting up the cops.

Nothing to see here.

Poppy, you old f*cking murderer, if there's a hell and I dearly hope there is one for you, then you will be rooming with your Dad and Uncle Von Ribbentrop. When Satan isn't shoving pineapples up your ass.

And all the Kennedys you helped kill will be watching on the most comfortable barcaloungers in heaven, sipping Guinness, as the fruit goes in. Jack, Bobby, and John Jr.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
166. Wasn't Nixon in Dallas that day?
Nixon, George H.W. Bush, and Ford. All eventually became U.S. Presidents and all were somehow associated with Dallas and the assassination. I'm not saying that mere fact proves anything. It's just a strange coincidence to me.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
167. Threre is a much larger pic of Poppy >School Book Depository, when
you compare other pic's of Poppy and at the School Book Depository, clearly it's George H.W. Bush.
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GreenZoneLT Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
168. This is a load of crap (see Posner, "Case Closed.")
OK, when you say the "magic bullet" was undamaged, your whole case goes out the window. The bullet showed marks and distortions typical for a bullet that had traveled the path that one did, mainly through flesh (Kennedy's throat, Connally's shoulder) and striking bone (Connally's wrist) only after most of its energy was dissipated.

So, Bush suspected someone other than Oswald, living in another city? How does that have anything to do with the actual assassination? And the other coincidence, that a wealthy Texas businessman happened to be in the largest city in the state on a given day? Wow, that's gotta be an astronomical coincidence of 10 or even 20 to 1.

Oswald did it, acting alone. All the evidence points that way, and none of the other theories HAVE any hard evidence, just coincidences.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #168
178. Typical tactic Bring up Government's OFFICIALS who
are paid and livlihood depends on the government... that isn't credible
Why cause its just like sattelite pictures and Colin Powel telling us WMD
are in Iraq... Lies Lies Lies 9/11 was done by 10 Al quida members who was said they were dead from plane crashes but has been found alive... just like yellow cake Niger documents quoted by Bush in State of the Union address

PLEASE DON"T TELL ME ABOUT HOW CREDIBLE the GOVERNMENT officials are

when the body of Kennedy was purposely tampered with by Government Officials

what is catching up with poppy Bush and friends is that technology and his power wanes and the CIA his buddies are on the oust with the CIA present and a WAR is happening in the background... Those who see that the Bush Dynasty is coming to a Horrible end and THE TRUTH will set us FREE

Kennedy and others HAUNT THEM

When we leave this Earth in death we leave with none of our riches and none of our prestige....... Poppy Bush when he saw that coffin sees his future before him

Credibility of the GOVERNMENT is seriously irreparably destroyed
Do I believe ANYTHING this GOVERNEMNET says from Kennedy assasination to Wellstone to Iraq War to 9/11 ...and soon too come Iran ...Sorry I'm with millions who are NON BELIEVERS
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #168
184. ''Case Closed'' is one steaming load of a Big Lie...
...made whole from a bunch of Small Lies.

First off the bat, an excellent interpretation of Posner's "work."



The following review appeared in the March/April 1994 issue of Federal Bar News & Journal, vol. 41, no. 3.

Kennedy Assassination: Case Still Open

Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK, by Gerald Posner, Random House, 1993. 607 pages, $25. The Last Investigation, by Gaeton Fonzi, Thunder's Mouth Press, 1993. 448 pages, $24.95.


Reviewed by George Costello*

EXCERPT...

Among the many books recently released to mark the 30th anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination, Gerald Posner's Case Closed has received by far the most attention, some deserved and some not. Posner's work is welcome because it puts together a seemingly plausible, coherent argument for what was becoming in the public mind the most outlandish theory of all -- the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed President Kennedy and in turn was killed by Jack Ruby acting alone. Posner refocuses attention on the considerable evidence assembled by the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations that can support such a theory.

Lost by many in the rush to praise Posner, however, is the fact that Posner, like some of the conspiracy theorists he is quick to condemn, is highly selective in the evidence he presents, relying on evidence that supports his position and ignoring or minimizing evidence that tends to disprove it. Case Closed is a brief for the prosecution of Lee Harvey Oswald, not the objective and comprehensive reexamination of the assassination that it purports to be. Moreover, it presents an account of the shooting that is most likely erroneous.

Far less attention has been paid to Gaeton Fonzi's The Last Investigation. It is less ambitious, not addressing at all what took place during the actual shooting in Dealey Plaza, and addressing Oswald's background only tangentially. Nonetheless, in describing his frustrations as an investigator for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and in describing the limited scope of investigation actually undertaken by the committee, Fonzi provides good reason why Posner's claim to have closed the case should be received skeptically.

Studying the Kennedy assassination is extremely frustrating, not so much due to the volume of material and the proliferation of theories about what happened (there are over 500 books to date), but mostly because the case was mishandled from the start and the authenticity of key evidence is in doubt. In the 30 years since President Kennedy's death, there has been no genuine murder investigation. The alleged assassin was murdered two days after the President's murder, and hence was never brought to trial. Federal agents obtained physical evidence from Texas authorities, who had jurisdiction over the case (in 1963 murder of the President was not a federal crime), yet the federal investigation was far from thorough, designed more to quell suspicions of conspiracy than to probe the possibility. Important leads were not followed, and witnesses whose memories conflicted with the lone-assassin theory were ignored or told they must be mistaken. Moreover, although the President's body should have been the "best evidence" of the shooting, federal agents removed the body from Parkland Hospital in Dallas, where by Texas law an autopsy should have been performed, and transported it to Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington (whether the body travelled there directly is another story in and of itself), where an incomplete and inept autopsy was performed by persons not qualified in forensic pathology. A bullet fired from Oswald's rifle (later dubbed the "magic bullet" by critics) was found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital, but the person who found it was relatively confident that it had not come from Governor Connolly's stretcher, even though, according to the official theory, the bullet first passed through Kennedy, then Connolly.) The chain of possession was not carefully documented on various bullet fragments later subjected to analysis for match with the magic bullet or Oswald's rifle.

Against this background of confusion, what Posner attempts and claims to do is ambitious, to say the least. Posner believes that much of the confusion has been created by irresponsible conspiracy theorists who have ignored, or at least selectively ignored, the considerable evidence that is available. Moreover, he asserts that recent computer-enhanced analysis removes the basis for much prior uncertainty. Drawing on the records developed by the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and adding a few new perspectives, Posner reconstructs the case that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. He not only analyzes the actual shooting in Dealey Plaza and provides a detailed biography and personality profile of Oswald, but also provides a personality sketch of Jack Ruby and tries to shoot down various conspiracy theories. If you believe everything Posner says, it all ties together quite nicely. You are more likely to believe what Posner says, however, if you limit your consideration to the evidence he selects and interprets.

CONTINUED...

http://www.assassinationscience.com/costello.html



And now for those photos missing from "Case Closed"...

For instance, there's the matter of the hole in President Kennedy's jacket. That would mean that the bullet didn't go through his neck and out and through Gov. Connally all those times, slowing in the process enough to emerge (relatively) unscathed on a hospital gurney later.



Then, Posner writes that Ferrie never crossed paths with Oswald in the Civil Air Patrol, yet, there they were.



Odd, how that selective memory works to really serve someone's interest, not We the People, though.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #168
190. Posner was hired by the left to come out with his own book that was total lies and distortions
Posner is nothing more then another Hannity!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #190
231. Posner hired by the left?
I think he is a hired gun for other forces.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #168
269. Your title so aptly describes the contents of your post! n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
171. A sidebar, here's a story about a Nazi SS "guard" ordered deported
from Wisconsin.

Judge says Nazi camp guard must be deported by Gina Barton and Marie Rohde (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel)
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549537

While Mr. Kumpf wasn't as prominent a Nazi as others, the people and networks that assisted him and others to escape justice for their crimes against humanity and live in America, Latin America and other places should be prosecuted-not allowed to hide behind the shield of a secrecy classification system.

This goes back to the PAPERCLIP and similar programs that clandestinely "recruited" Nazis ostensibly to battle "godless communism" even though some of these Nazis were also communist agents.

What a timely story about Mr. Kumpf.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #171
209. 31 Similarities Between Hitler and President Bush
This was updated in 2004, otherwise it'd include stuff about Katrina and ethnic cleansing.





31 Similarities Between Hitler and President Bush

by Edward Jayne
www.dissidentvoice.org
August 29, 2004
(revised from an earlier version posted March 29, 2003)

When President Bush decided to invade Iraq, his spokesmen began comparing Saddam Hussein to Adolph Hitler, the most monstrous figure in modern history. Everybody was therefore shocked when a high German bureaucrat turned the tables by comparing Bush himself with Hitler. As to be expected, she (the bureaucrat) was forced to resign because of her extreme disrespect for an American president. However, the resemblance sticks--there are too many similarities to be ignored, some of which may be listed here.

2. Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized disaster, in Hitlers case the Reichstag fire, in Bushs case the 9-11 catastrophe.

3. Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate and despite the opposition of most foreign nations.

4. Like Hitler, Bush has increased his popularity with conservative voters by mounting an aggressive public relations campaign against foreign enemies. Just as Hitler cited international communism to justify Germanys military buildup, Bush has used Al Qaeda and the so-called Axis of Evil to justify our current military buildup. Paradoxically none of the nations in this axis--Iraq, Iran and North Korea--have had anything to do with each other.

5. Like Hitler, Bush has promoted militarism in the midst of economic recession (or depression as it was called during the thirties). First he used war preparations to help subsidize defense industries (Halliburton, Bechtel, Carlyle Group, etc.) and presumably the rest of the economy on a trickle-down basis. Now he turns to the very same corporations to rebuild Iraq, again without competitive bidding and at extravagant profit levels.

6. Like Hitler, Bush displays great populist enthusiasm in his patriotic speeches, but primarily serves wealthy investors who subsidize his election campaigns and share with him their comfortable lifestyle. As he himself jokes, he treats these individuals at the pinnacle of our economy as his true political base.

7. Like Hitler, Bush envisages our nations unique historic destiny almost as a religious cause sanctioned by God. Just as Hitler did for Germany, he takes pride in his providential role in spreading his version of Americanism throughout the entire world.

SNIP...

10. Like Hitler, Bush scraps international treaties, most notably the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Convention on the Prohibition of Land Mines, the Chemical Weapons Convention, the Kyoto Global Warming Accord, and the International Criminal Court.

11. Like Hitler, Bush repeats lies often enough that they come to be accepted as the truth. Bush and his spokesmen argued, for example, that they had taken every measure possible to avoid war, than an invasion of Iraq would diminish (not intensify) the terrorist threat against the U.S., that Iraq was linked with Al Qaeda, and that nothing whatsoever had been achieved by U.N. inspectors to warrant the postponement of U.S. invasion plans. All of this was false. They also insisted that Iraq hid numerous weapons it did not possess since the mid-190s, and they refused to acknowledge the absence of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq since the early nineties. As perhaps to be expected, they indignantly accused others of deception and evasiveness.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bu...



Thanks to the leadership of Der Smirkelgrber,

the bed-wetting bastards are starting to sweat bullets.



Once Congress gets to looking under the rocks,

Bush and his cronies will be booking on Priceline one-way for Paraguay.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
176. poppy JFK Ford cia Watergate Nixon warren oswald nt
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #176
193. I hope this thread is still here later
:kick: for a later look...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-06-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. Know your BFEE: At every turn, JFK was opposed by War Party
During the Bay of Pigs Invasion, both the CIA and the Pentagon lied to President Kennedy and said the crazy idea would work. The anti-Castro Cuban people would rise up and greet the invaders as liberators with flowers and kisses. Wrong. The reality was, the operation had been compromised. Castros spies in Miami even knew D-Day and the landing site.



"(Peter) Kornbluh said there is no indication that Esterline or anyone else at the
CIA warned President Kennedy of the leak before the invasion took place."




Soviets Knew Date of Cuba Attack

By Vernon Loeb
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 29, 2000; A04

Shortly after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961, a top CIA
official told an investigative commission that the Soviet Union had
somehow learned the exact date of the amphibious landing in advance,
according to a newly declassified version of the commission's final report.

Moreover, the CIA apparently had known of the leak to the Soviets--and
went ahead with the invasion anyway.

CONTINUED

http://www.jfklancer.com/jfk1bop.html



Gee. Its not all that great a mystery why Gen. Charles Cabell, E Howard Hunt and the rest of the right-wingers would call JFK traitor for not calling in the air strikes in support of the invaders. I call such bastards hypocritical sons-of-bitches for saying so.



No one knew it at the time, but things in Cuba were even worse than imagined. The Soviets already had nukes on the island. The missiles were armed with nukes. Thus, had the United States invaded, Castro or the Soviet commanders in the field would have used them on the invading American forces and thus bringing about an American nuclear response and that would have precipitated World War III and that would be it for civilization and most living things.



Our Men in Havana

In Havana this past October, Professor James Blight brought together old foes Robert McNamara and Fidel Castro for the fortieth anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Such meetings, part of Blights unconventional fifteen-year study of the crisis, have led McNamara and others to a startling conclusion: we were much closer to nuclear war than anyone thought.

By Norman Boucher

EXCERPT

Over the past decade or so, it has become increasingly clear that the grown-ups may not have had much of an idea what was going on either. At least this has been the conclusion to emerge from a series of six conferences held over the past fifteen years on the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, those thirteen days in October during which the world came the closest it has ever been to destroying itself. Orchestrated by Professor James Blight and Adjunct Associate Professor Janet Lang, both of the Watson Institute for International Studies, these conferencesalong with two related ones on the disastrous April 1961 Bay of Pigs invasionhave revealed that we were much closer to nuclear annihilation four decades ago than anyone had previously thought, and that the management of the crisis in Washington and Moscow was blessed with a far higher level of sheer dumb luck than analysts and historians had earlier been able to accept.

I conclude from this discussion, Robert McNamara, the secretary of defense during the missile crisis, said in Havana at the latest conference this past October, that were damn lucky to be here.

SNIP

The alternative interpretation of those October 1962 events is messier. As McNamara explained to the students in the Blight-Lang class, no one in the White House in 1962 knew the number of nuclear warheads already in Cuba at the time of the crisis; nor did they know that the Soviets and Cubans had tactical nuclear warheads they were ready to use against U.S. troops. Had Khrushchev not agreed to withdraw the missiles on October 28, a military conflict might have easily broken out, with consequences no one in Washington had sufficient information to foresee, far less control.

CONTINUED

http://www.brownalumnimagazine.com/printerfriendly.cfm?...



But wait, theres more. The War Party wanted was so bad with Cuba, they even had the Joint Chiefs normally honorable men float a plan to launch a terror attack against Americans in Miami and Washington, as well as shooting down a jetliner filled with American college students or two, as a pretext for war with Cuba.



Pentagon Proposed Pretexts for Cuba Invasion in 1962

In his new expos of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS. This document, titled Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington, including sink a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated), faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a Remember the Maine incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.

Source (w/link to PDF of actual Operation NORTHWOODS document):

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430 /



Kennedy said, No. Then, a short time after the episode, didnt renew Gen. Lyman Lemnitzers tour as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Pentagon, most of the Cabinet, and the Congressional leaders all were hell-bent for war. They told JFK the missiles were a danger and the only way to get rid of them was an immediate air attack, followed by an invasion. Air Force commander Curtis LeMay even tried to instigate war, ordering jets to intrude into Soviet airspace, hoping one would be shot down and form a pretext for all-out war.



Spy Flights of the Cold War

Review by Capt. Troy Thomas, USAF
Book by Paul Lashmar
Naval Institute Press, 118 Maryland Avenue, Annapolis, Maryland 21402, 1996, 256 pages, $29.95.
Document created: 13 May 99

Perceptions of the cold war often focus on nuclear arsenals and Third World surrogate conflicts, overlooking a persistent war of aerial espionage in which hundreds of airmen lose their lives. Spy Flights of the Cold War offers an intriguing yet controversial historical record of US and British aerial reconnaissance against the communist bloc from 1946 to 1963. The authors research reveals numerous harrowing missions by brave aircrews flying deep into hostile territory on missions previously declared routine. Overlaying this operational history is a political account that indicts the US Air Force (USAF) and, specifically, Gen Curtis E. LeMay for exceeding presidential authority, manipulating intelligence estimates, and using the spy flights in an attempt to instigate another world war. Although it is a tribute to individual airmen, the text openly criticizes USAF leadership.

SNIP

Criticism of the USAF and LeMay is a prominent theme. In addition to questionable evidence that LeMay encouraged unauthorized overflight missions, Lashmar devotes an entire chapter to SACs aggressive use of reconnaissance missions as a political tool intent on provoking nuclear war. If successfully implemented, Project Control overflights would demonstrate the Russians military impotency and possibly create the conditions for a preventive war. In addition to attributing a prolonged cold war to General LeMay and other senior USAF leaders, Lashmar also contends that SAC and the USAF intelligence community inflated Soviet missile, and later bomber, strengths to justify inordinate spending on SAC. Although estimates by the intelligence community later proved high, evidence for a duplicitous USAF agenda is suspect.

CONTINUED

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/bookre...



Unlike the selected current occupant of the Oval Office, John F. Kennedy truly understood what it means to serve as President and Commander in Chief. Kennedy believed he had the final say on executive decision making. Case in point, Vietnam.



Kennedy saw the situation on the ground to be a loser for America and had ordered Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to begin the withdrawal of American forces with the withdrawal of 1,000 advisors by the end of 1963. JFK planned to have ALL American troops out of Vietnam by the end of 1964. That was in writing:



Exit Strategy

In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam


By James K. Galbraith

Forty years have passed since November 22, 1963, yet painful mysteries remain. What, at the moment of his death, was John F. Kennedys policy toward Vietnam?

Its one of the big questions, alternately evaded and disputed over four decades of historical writing. It bears on Kennedys reputation, of course, though not in an unambiguous way.

And today, larger issues are at stake as the United States faces another indefinite military commitment that might have been avoided and that, perhaps, also cannot be won. The story of Vietnam in 1963 illustrates for us the struggle with policy failure. More deeply, appreciating those distant events tests our capacity as a country to look the reality of our own history in the eye.

SNIP

A more thorough treatment appeared in 1992, with the publication of John M. Newmans JFK and Vietnam.1 Until his retirement in 1994 Newman was a major in the U.S. Army, an intelligence officer last stationed at Fort Meade, headquarters of the National Security Agency. As an historian, his specialty is deciphering declassified recordsa talent he later applied to the CIAs long-hidden archives on Lee Harvey Oswald.

Newmans argument was not a case of counterfactual historical reasoning, as Larry Berman described it in an early response.2 It was not about what might have happened had Kennedy lived. Newmans argument was stronger: Kennedy, he claims, had decided to begin a phased withdrawal from Vietnam, that he had ordered this withdrawal to begin. Here is the chronology, according to Newman:

(1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963. At Kennedys instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamaras recommended timetable for withdrawal.

(2) On October 5, Kennedy made his formal decision. Newman quotes the minutes of the meeting that day:

The President also said that our decision to remove 1,000 U.S. advisors by December of this year should not be raised formally with Diem. Instead the action should be carried out routinely as part of our general posture of withdrawing people when they are no longer needed. (Emphasis added.)
The passage illustrates two points: (a) that a decision was in fact made on that day, and (b) that despite the earlier announcement of McNamaras recommendation, the October 5 decision was not a ruse or pressure tactic to win reforms from Diem (as Richard Reeves, among others, has contended3) but a decision to begin withdrawal irrespective of Diem or his reactions.

(3) On October 11, the White House issued NSAM 263, which states:

The President approved the military recommendations contained in section I B (1-3) of the report, but directed that no formal announcement be made of the implementation of plans to withdraw 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963.


In other words, the withdrawal recommended by McNamara on October 2 was embraced in secret by Kennedy on October 5 and implemented by his order on October 11, also in secret. Newman argues that the secrecy after October 2 can be explained by a diplomatic reason. Kennedy did not want Diem or anyone else to interpret the withdrawal as part of any pressure tactic (other steps that were pressure tactics had also been approved). There was also a political reason: JFK had not decided whether he could get away with claiming that the withdrawal was a result of progress toward the goal of a self-sufficient South Vietnam.

CONTINUED

http://bostonreview.net/BR28.5/galbraith.html



Then came Dallas. A week later, the orders were signed committing the US to support the government of South Vietnam. A few months later, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was created and the US had their fig leaf for war. Today, decades later, we look back back and see a parade of Presidents, the majority of whom were only too eager to make war, mere enablers for the War Party.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #195
234. WOW!!!....I saw "The Fog of War" A McNamara testimonial. And now I can see
what McNamara was going through...not that I have sympathy for him.

I also saw the "Good Shepard" this weekend and would love to hear your take on the movie if you've seen it.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #234
276. "Good Shepherd" is very good---bolsters the views here
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Debra-Conway Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #195
240. Exactly Why JFK Was Killed. Octafish, You've Shown It.
You've given everyone here a great history lesson. Please, people, read this post and try to understand why people like me continue to work on the JFK assassination. It is still recent history! It matters today. This thread gives me hope.

Visit us at our forum http://www.jfklancerforum.com


Debra Conway


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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #193
198. I'm hoping that too N/t
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 01:44 PM by truedelphi
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
202. Who could possibly imagine that a member of an occult cabal like Skull & Bones
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 03:55 PM by SpiralHawk
such as Precott Nazi Bush, George CIA Bush, or George AWOL Bush, would ever do anything evil?

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #202
208. Nazis and the Republican Party
The NAZI overtones always get me.



Nazis and the Republican Party

A Fresh Look


by Carla Binion
Nazis and the Republican Party

Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in BLOWBACK that after World War II, Nazi migrs were
given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U.S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions
in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees." Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not
come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas. The Nazi agenda
did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the
Republican Party.

Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll "for
their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare," among other purposes. The most important Nazi
employed by the U.S. was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's most senior eastern front military intelligence officer. After
Germany's defeat became certain, Gehlen offered the U.S. certain concessions in exchange for his own
protection. Gehlen promoted hyped up cold war propaganda on behalf of the political right in this country, and
helped shape U.S. perceptions of the cold war.

Journalist Russ Bellant (OLD NAZIS, THE NEW RIGHT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY) shows that
Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican migr network. Pasztor, who served as
adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate
Hungary's Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council.

Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week,
disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The
article prompted six leaders of Bush's coalition to resign.

SNIP...

The Philadelphia Inquirer ran an article on the Bush team's inclusion of Nazis (David Lee Preston, "Fired Bush
backer one of several with possible Nazi links," September 10, 1988.) The newspaper also ran an investigative
series on Nazi members of the Bush coalition. The article confirmed that the Bush team included members
listed by Russ Bellant.

Journalist Martin A. Lee, has written for The Nation, Rolling Stone, The San Francisco Chronicle, and other
publications. In THE BEAST REAWAKENS, Lee confirms that during both the Reagan and Bush years, the
Republican Party's ethnic outreach arm recruited members from the Nazi migr network.

Lee says that the Republican Party's ethnic outreach division had an outspoken hatred of President Jimmy
Carter's Office of Special Investigations (OSI), an organization dedicated to tracking down and prosecuting Nazi
war collaborators who entered this country illegally. Former Republican Pat Buchanan attacked Carter's OSI
after it deported a few suspected Nazi war criminals.

According to Lee, public relations man Harold Keith Thompson was principal U.S. point man for the postwar
Nazi support network known as die Spinne, or the Spider. In the late 40s and early 50s, Thompson worked as
the chief North American representative for the remaining National Socialist German Worker's Party and the
SS. Lee writes that the wealthy Thompson gave generously to Republican candidates Senator Jesse Helms and
would-be senator Oliver North. Thompson's money gained him membership in the GOP's Presidential Legion
of Merit. Lee says Thompson also "received numerous thank-you letters from the Republican National
Committee." Those letters are now in the Hoover Institute Special Collections Library.

SNIP...

At a May 9, 1984 press conference, Simon Wiesenthal said, "Nazi criminals were the principal beneficiaries of
the Cold War." The cold war mentality, hyped by Reinhard Gehlen and other Nazis, became the shelter for tens
of thousands of Nazi criminals. Helping the far right in this country to promote cold war hysteria became the
Nazi war criminals "reason for being." As Christopher Simpson says, the cold war became those criminals'
means "to avoid responsibility for the murders they had committed."

Journalist Seymour Hersh says Christopher Simpson's BLOWBACK is "the ultimate book about the worst
kind of cold war thinking, in which some of our most respected statesmen made shameful decisions that they
mistakenly believed to be justified." To this day, says Simpson, the U.S. intelligence agencies hide the scope of
their post-World War II collaboration with Nazi criminals.

CONTINUED...

http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm



Thass all ol' news to you SpiralHawk. And still you appreciate its impact on our future.



NAZI GOP has been AWOL from the pages and airwaves of Corporate McPravda.

Thanks for giving a damn, my Friend!
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #208
210. time to grab a copy of Martin Lee's book
It is a good but scary read. I have it in my collection, along with Gary Webb's excellent book, Dark Alliance.
I knew what to expect from the bastards. They have a track record, no... make that a rap sheet.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #210
212. The CIA's Original Sin
Martin A. Lee is a patriot whose work has helped preserve the Constitution of the United States.



The CIA's Original Sin

By Martin A. Lee, deleted. Posted April 26, 2000.

For U.S. policy-makers the 50th anniversary of the founding of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on September 18th provides yet another opportunity for self-righteous, congratulatory proclamations about "winning the cold war." But the American public would be better served if U.S. officials marked this occasion by owning up to the CIA's original sin, which dates back to the spy agency's earliest days: its covert use of a Nazi spy network stuffed to the brim with war criminals.

U.S. spy chiefs opted to protect this ignominious cast of killers ostensibly so they could help fight a shadow war against the Soviet Union. But for the next five decades, this fateful decision had a deleterious impact on U.S. policy, as it paved the way for-and reinforced- Washington's tolerance for human rights violations and all manner of criminality in the name of anti-communism. The ongoing consequences of the CIA-Nazi tryst are evident today in a resurgent neofascist movement in Europe that can trace its ideological lineage back to Hitler's Reich through some of the men who served U.S. intelligence.

The key figure on the German side of this equation was General Reinhard Gehlen, a thin, bespectacled espionage prodigy who served as Hitler's top anti-Soviet spy. Hailing from a family of Prussian aristocrats, this mousy little Junker of five foot seven inches had sparse blonde hair, a toothbrush mustache, and huge ears that flared from his head like radar dishes. During World War II, he oversaw all German military-intelligence operations throughout Eastern Europe and the USSR.

SNIP...

During ten months of negotiations at Fort Hunt, Gehlen cultivated a fastidious professional image, pretending to be the pure technician who liked nothing better than to immerse himself in maps, flow-charts, and statistics. The persona he projected was, to use a bit of espionage parlance, a "legend" -- one that hinged on Gehlen's false claim that he was never really a Nazi and that he was dedicated, above all, to fighting Communism.

Among those who bit the bait was future CIA director Allen Dulles, who became Gehlen's biggest postwar booster among American policy wonks. With a mandate to continue information-gathering in the East just as he had been doing before, Gehlen returned to Germany in 1946 and re-established his spy organization at the behest of American intelligence. Initially under U.S. army supervision, the Gehlen "Org," as it was called, proceeded to enlist thousands of Gestapo, Wehrmacht, and SS veterans -- despite his solemn promise to U.S. officials that he would not employ hard-core Nazis.

Even the vilest of the vile -- the senior bureaucrats who ran the central administrative apparatus of the Holocaust -- were welcome in the Org. Alois Brunner (Adolf Eichmann's deputy) and Klaus Barbie, the notorious wartime Butcher of Lyon, were among those who did double duty for Gehlen and U.S. intelligence. Through Gehlen, the CIA also had access to former leaders of virtually every Nazi puppet government from the Baltics to the Black Sea, as well as an assortment of Waffen SS fanatics who eagerly joined the American-led campaign to "liberate" their native lands. "It seems," the Frankfurter Rundschau editorialized, "that in the Gehlen headquarters one SS man paved the way for the next and Himmler's elite were having happy reunion ceremonies."

CONTINUED...

http://www.alternet.org/story/4867 /



Gee. Isn't that the same Allen Dulles who worked with Prescott Bush, investing in Germany and German money in the USofA?



I know you know. And thanks for giving a damn about it, kineneb.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #212
218. WOW Octafish-story is up at Huff Po. Check out the comments, you'll be proud:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #218
232. Thank you, mod mom.
It is most gratifying to see so many truly care about getting to the Truth about the assassination of President Kennedy. Finding the traitors involved and prosecuting any who still survive will go a long ways toward healing this divided nation and steering the nation to a better place. Personally, I am so proud to know you and the other good DUers... and good folks on Huffington Post... who've made it possible to unearth some rather unpleasant truths.

Thanks for caring, mod mom!
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #232
236. Octafish-you rule!
:toast:
Please do post more in GD...lots of people need to hear what you say, outside of the 9/11 forum.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #232
244. WooHoo Octifish
:woohoo: Hey did you guys and gals happen to see Poppy Bush's interview with Larry King it was with his daughter on her book about her dad

Poppy said something that really hit home

He said "The coffins of the dead haunt him in his sleep" something like that

and he looked at his daughter and he said "We have a very forgiving God"
and he looked at her for reassurance and she nodded and squeezed his hand

I don't think he gets repentance and redemption at all...

I guess Actions speak louder than words

Time is running out
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #218
237. mod mom-Thanks for posting this!
a crossover from DU to Huffpo-seven pages of great comments on Huffpo (hardly any trolls)-saw your posts-love this one

"It is quite amazing that this is on Huff Po. Wouldn't it be SO COOL if Keith Olbermann (have you noticed how many of his story are covered in Huff Po first?) covered it.

We had a Sufferage Movement, a Voting Rights Movement and a Civil Rights Movement-now is the time for the TRUTH MOVEMENT! Let's air all our nation's dirty laundry-only then can we truly evolve as a civilized society! COME ON KEITH- I DOUBLE DARE YOU! "

By: modmom on January 08, 2007 at 10:56pm

TRUTH MOVEMENT-YES!!!!
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #212
223. Here are links to four Martin A. Lee interviews about "The Beast Reawakens" and related topic
These were all done in 1997. Here we go...
FTR-70 Interview With Martin A. Lee: Part 1 audio Part 2 audio

FTR-71 Martin A. Lee Live: Part 1 audio Part 2 audio

FTR-72 More Discussion With Martin A. Lee: Part 1 audio Part 2 audio

FTR-81 Interview IV with Martin Lee: Part 1 audio Part 2 audio

It's kind of telling about Lee's work that I was just ranting about Turkish drug smuggling ties to the fascist Grey Wolves (and how that relates to Sibel Edmonds's case), and lo and behold I ended up heavily referencing an excellent Martin A. Lee article. The guy is a treasure trove of vital info.

Also, regarding GOP-Nazi ties, don't forget Russ Bellant's Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party. It makes a great (late) stocking stuffer along with Bellant's The Coors Connection: How Coors Family Philanthopy Undermines Democratic Pluralism! :-)

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #223
247. Dave Emory is tops. So is Russ Bellant.
And so are Spitfirelist and For The Record.

I first read Mr. Bellant's work in 1990. An investigative reporter friend lent me his copy of "Old Nazis" and I never gave it back.

The great DUer reprehensor turned me on to Mr. Emory's work. The guy knows his stuff. And those online books are invaluable.

Thank you for the great links and info ftr23532. I have Mr. Lee's book. It is great to hear his voice.

It's great knowing Mr. Emory and Mr. Lee are on the case. Same goes for you, too, ftr23532! And a most hearty welcome to DU!
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #247
271. Caveat!
Martin Bormann is D-E-D dead. (sic)

It appears that none other than Allen Dulles sent Paul Manning on a wild goose in South America in search of Bormann. Emory never mentions this but Bormann's body was identified once by a dental I.D;

http://www.leninimports.com/martin_bormann.html

In December, 1972, during construction near the Lehrter Station (near to where Bormann's diary had been found in a discarded leather jacket in 1945, and close to the spot where Axmann said he had seen Bormann's body in the moonlight of that fatal night) two skeletons were unearthed. After extensive forensic examination, using the dental records of Bormann's dentist (Prof. Hugo Blaschke, who was also Hitler's dentist) the shorter of the two skeletons was identified as that of Martin Bormann, and West German authorities officially declared him dead. The forensic identification was validated by Dr. Reidar F. Sognnaes, a celebrated U.S. expert in such matters. (Reidar F. Sognnaes, Dental Evidence in the Postmortem Identification of Adolf Hitler, Eva Braun and Martin Bormann, in Legal Medicine Annual, 1976.) This new evidence caused Roper to write in the 1978 edition of The Last Days of Hitler that "...in view of new evidence which has recently been found, I believe that it can now be closed."

As stated in the Final Report of the Frankfurt State Prosecution office under File Index No. Js 11/61 (GStA Ffm.) in Criminal Action against Martin Bormann on Charge of Murder, dated April 4, 1973:

XI. Result
Although nature has placed limits on human powers of recognition (BGHZ Vol. 36, pp. 379-393-NJW 1962, 1505), it is proved with certainty that the two skeletons found on the Ulap fairgrounds in Berlin on December 7 and 8, 1972, are identical with the accused Martin Bormann and Dr. Ludwig Stumpfegger.

The accused and Dr. Ludwig Stumpfegger died in Berlin in the early hours of the morning of May 2, 1945 -- sometime between 1:30 and 2:30 A.M.

XII. Further Measures
1. The search for Martin Bormann is officially terminated....


Also, further to the dental ID, in 2000 and independently in 2001, different scientists have confirmed that Bormann has been dead since 1945;

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v5gg4yjkqmk4gj2b /

Contrary to statements of an eye-witness who reported that Martin Bormann, the second most powerful man in the Third Reich, died on 2 May 1945 in Berlin, rumours persisted over the years that he had escaped from Germany after World War II. In 1972, skeletal remains were found during construction work, and by investigating the teeth and the bones experts concluded that they were from Bormann. Nevertheless, new rumours arose and in order to end this speculation we were commissioned to identify the skeletal remains by mitochondrial DNA analysis. The comparison of the sequence of HV1 and HV2 from the skeletal remains and a living maternal relative of Martin Bormann revealed no differences and this sequence was not found in 1500 Caucasoid reference sequences. Based on this investigation, we support the hypothesis that the skeletal remains are those of Martin Bormann.


Emory never talks about this stuff. I just found out late last year, sorry Octa.

The "remarkable and deadly" "Bormann Organization" is bunk. I am sorry to ever have foisted that one on you.

However, Emory still mixes in some absolutely essential info in with his broadcasts.

Caveat emptor.

All said, there are still Nazis in South America, just not Bormann.

Anyhow, here John Loftus explains the misdirection by Dulles;

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/bus...

Several decades after the war, investigative reporter Paul Manning, Edward R. Murrow's colleague, stumbled across the Thyssen interrogations in the US National Archives. Manning intended to write a book about Nazi money laundering. Manning's manuscript was a dagger at Allen Dulles' throat: his book specifically mentioned the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart by name, albeit in passing. Dulles volunteered to help the unsuspecting Manning with his manuscript, and sent him on a wild goose chase, searching for Martin Bormann in South America.

Without knowing that he had been deliberately sidetracked, Manning wrote a forward to his book personally thanking Allen Dulles for his "assurance that I was "on the right track, and should keep going.'"Dulles sent Manning and his manuscript off into the swamps of obscurity. The same "search for Martin Bormann"scam was also used to successfully discredit Ladislas Farago, another American journalist probing too far into the laundering of Nazi money. American investigators had to be sent anywhere but Holland.

And so the Dutch connection remained unexplored until 1994 when I published the book "The Secret War Against the Jews."As a matter of historical curiosity, I mentioned that Fritz Thyssen (and indirectly, the Nazi Party) had obtained their early financing from Brown Brothers Harriman, and its affiliate, the Union Banking Corporation. Union Bank, in turn, was the Bush family's holding company for a number of other entities, including the "Holland American Trading Company."


Sorry, Octa, sorry!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #271
272. CIA-Nazi Link Grows Clearer as More Documents Come to Light
No problem, reprehensor! Thank you for the heads-up. One of the main reasons I post is so that I can learn, too.

When it comes to investigating the Octopus, Die Spinne, Project PAPERCLIP and the machinations of the Bush "Crime Family," the depth, breadth, number and sheer volume of criminality can overwhelm even the best of computers and the strongest of stomachs. So, everyone is likely to make a mistake or two. As you know, David Emory is still good people.

So Bormann's dead. Good riddance.

Here's one NAZI that got away to live a long life at humanity's expense, thanks to Mr. Dulles and the people he worked for:



CIA-Nazi Link Grows Clearer as More Documents Come to Light

June 15, 2006
Ron Kampeas
Jewish Telegraphic Agency



Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann stands trial in Jerusalem in 1961. Apparently, the CIA knew of his whereabouts as early as 1958.

WASHINGTON -- A former Nazi rose to the highest ranks of a Western intelligence agency - and was a Soviet mole. A lead to Adolf Eichmann was ignored. A spy whose pathological lies made him useless, but who still escaped prosecution for war crimes.

These are among the revelations found among some 8 million pages of documents released here Tuesday that deal with German and Japanese war crimes, including 27,000 pages that detail the relationship after World War II between U.S. government agencies and suspected Nazis war criminals.

The message threading the documents was clear: The price one pays for consorting with evil men far outweighs the return.

"Using very bad people can have very bad consequences," Elizabeth Holtzman, a former U.S. congresswoman and a member of the Interagency Working Group that released the documents, said at a news conference last Tuesday at the National Archives. The group was established in 1999 to declassify rooms full of documents related to Nazi war crimes.

The mandate was later extended to Japanese war crimes.

There is a pointed message as well for a United States currently at war with a terrorist enemy, noted speakers.

Considering human-rights issues in recruiting spies "may not only be the right thing to do, but the wise thing to do," Holtzman said. "We may want to understand this as a nation before we plunge ahead to repeat the mistakes of the past."

This week's release of documents came eight years after the U.S. Congress passed a law, the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act, requiring agencies to provide the information. Among other things, it was intended to paint a full picture of U.S. involvement with ex-Nazis after the war.

CONTINUED...

http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/3617



Even if Emory's wrong on Bormann, Emory's a heckuva lot braver than I. He puts his real name behind everything he does. Me, I've got to work under a nom de plume for, er, health reasons... meaning: I don't want to get canned and lose my medical insurance.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #272
273. We've still got a lot of them here in Wisconsin, that's a fact.
And their new crops too.

There were 37 WWII POW camps in Wisconsin, Milwaukee was a Bund stronghold and there is even a Shrine to Hitler erected by one of these old NAZIS here.

Some of these old NAZIS are prominent citizens (hint: EVS) as are their new crops.



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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #208
222. Your topic is setting a record I believe for staying on
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 05:52 PM by happydreams
the first page. Almost a week.
I read Carla Binions article a way back. Sure am glad to see it recycling.

Martin Lee's book is excellent.

Just wait until "The Waxman" starts to hold hearings in a month or so.

:nuke:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
224. The Iran/Contra affair was a criminal conspiracy-and now they're back
having a mini power struggle with some neo-cons. Kissinger has always been there regardless of all others.

The Iran-Contra Affair 20 Years On (National Security Archive)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB210/index.htm

Iran/Contra collection (Real History Archives)
http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/conspiracies/...

Iran/Contra (SourceWatch)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Iran-Contra

Lost History:Reagan-Bush Crime Syndicate by Robert Parry
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/lost7.html

Tarpley on Bush and Iran/Contra
http://www.tarpley.net/bush18.htm

This is what the result of not prosecuting the major-domos led too, they're back with more "assets".
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
242. kick
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
245. Trying to establish Ford was so honest, so if he signed
The Warren Commission Report, then it must be true.... :puke:
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
246. And NOW Somalia!!!......(Again)
It's pretty obvious that Good 'Ol Pops is still Alive and Kickin'!

Makes ya wonder who's really running the Country. :eyes:
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
254. Another kick, just because....
Thank you Octafish! :kick:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
255. Jack Ruby Speaks out You Tube Link "A Ghost Haunts Bush"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTli19k_eYU

Take a look at a Ghost who haunts Poppy Bush
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-13-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #255
265. WOW!!!! The evidence just keeps creeping up.
Edited on Sat Jan-13-07 09:47 AM by goforit
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #255
279. "Are these people in very high positions?" "Yes."
:scared:
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ftr23532 Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
256. And here's a kick to remind ourselves of another recent speech...
...made by a President Bush. :bounce:
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AliceWonderland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-11-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
262. Octafish, you are one of my all-time favourite DU'ers.
I listen when you speak up. "Why? Because Jerry Ford put his name on it and Jerry Fords word was always good." Well now -- that settles it... a new benchmark for evidence.
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-12-07 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
263. More Blood on Poppy's hands
Fry in hell you old piece of shit!

January 5, 2007 -- WMR has obtained further details on the fate of the SS Poet, which is widely-assumed to have carried arms to Iran as part of George H. W. Bush's 1980 October Surprise operation against President Jimmy Carter, and was then conveniently "disappeared" along with its crew of 34. The Poet had a complement of 10 officers and 24 crewmen when it set sail from Philadelphia on October 24, 1980, just after George H. W. Bush visited Chester before his secret trip to Paris to arrange an arms swap with the Ayatollah Khomeini's government in return for their keeping the hostages imprisoned in Tehran until after the presidential election.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com /

Thanks Octafish for the eye openin' thread.

Every day is Saturday night but I can't wait for Sunday Morning...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=602F1Db-uLY&mode=related...



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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
277. Octafish-friend, get down James Brown...
:hi: :thumbsup: :patriot: k&r'd :kick:
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