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Yeah, Saddam was a very bad man but didn't he serve a purpose holding Iraq together?

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Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:36 PM
Original message
Yeah, Saddam was a very bad man but didn't he serve a purpose holding Iraq together?
And now we have seen what happens when that glue that held Iraq together (albeit by brutal force) is removed.

People have returned to their most savage of natures. A holy war that was somewhat under control rages on like it has for thousands of years.

And millions will die.


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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Saddam ran a secular government that controlled Iraq
He was not a radical Islamist. In fact, he hated Al Qaeda.
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Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. women had rights under Saddam
now they will be under shia law.
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. But
they were also subject to Uday and Qusays rape sprees as well as being pulled off the streets for saying anything negative about Saddam. Sounds like 6 on one hand half a dozen on the other.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I listened to a very interesting interview on NPR
last year. They were interviewing an Iraqi woman who was describing the horrors after the invasion.
Many cannot walk alone for fear of being kidnapped, raped or killed.
Her words (paraphrased) were that under Saddam, they only worried about Uday and Qusay.
Now they worried about many more.
All in all...it was easier to avoid two than to avoid hundreds.
I'm kind of agreeing with her on that...
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Does Iraq
belong put together. An artificial creation that puts Sunni and shia Arabs together with an ethnic Kurdish and Turcoman minority might not be a great recipe for a peaceful nation state.

Oh yeah add a dash of Assyrian and Greek Christians and stir.......sounds bad.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You can ask the British Empire that question when they carved out Iraq.
Right before they left, they ensured Iraq would have little to no access to open water by carving off another country and calling it Kuwait, which Iraq invaded in 1990. Prior to WWI, the entire area was dominated by the centuries old Ottoman Empire.
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think
that reinforces my point.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. To answer your question, I would say no.
These people existed in a more tribal society than one built around the notion of a nation-state. Even the notion of a nation-state was one that was imposed on Europe through centuries of conflict. I find it of note that a common tactic with retreating colonial empires is the drawing of national boundaries that make absolutely no sense except if the purpose of those boundaries is to divide the locals and make them all easier to exploit from the outside in the resulting chaos. It's not just with the British but also with every other colonial empire since the end of "decolonization."
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Maybe the country should stay together and religion needs to go if killing in Gods name
is their practice. Even separating them would be a temporary solution. One would invade another in the name of God eventually.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ann Coulter and the Taliban hold equal views
Convert them or kill them. I'm sick of religion, respectfully.

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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Me too!
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Are not
people free to practice a faith of their choosing. Wicked or not, who are we to tell them what god to worship or not worship.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You missed the point. At no time did I say people can't worship. That doesn't
include the governments.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. He managed to do something no one before or
since could do. If I were Bush, I wouldn't gloat too much. Won a war on a country broken from years of sanctions and no military.

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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Won?
When?
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Technically
the 3 week invasion period is counted as a win by many historians. The insurgency is a different conflict.

So I guess you could say Bush's record is 1 win Iraq invasion, 1 losing effort still ongoing (insurgency) and 1 draw Afghanistan.

I know it's not a game, just saying........
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Just saying
At www.icasualties.org

What the hell has W won?
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sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yes
I am familiar with that page and if not for the grace of Ahura Mazda, my name would be on there as well.

What the Chimp won was a 3 week war some historians label as a modern 3rd generation war. The insurgency is a 4th generation war and those are almost impossible to win. That's my only point.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Name these historians, please ...

Thanks.

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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yeah, you're right.
I can't think of another word except "deposed".
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Interesting you posted this
I have a good family friend, knew him for years and lets say he works for a federal agency but doesn't get issued a W-2. He's muslim and travels throughout these countries. He just called my father in law when Saddam was executed and told him to expect major rebellions and violence. He said the US has done something very stupid and will regret this.

I hope our military member are protected, well more then normal.

I can't say more, but just that he would know. Guess we will find out shortly.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. W got what he wanted
He always does...paid for by others
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. that was the cabals plan all along turn iraq and eventually
the rest of the middle east into a failed state and make it so that we have to make all of the middle east into a us/israel colony.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. I believe that Saddam Hussein
was the way he was because of Iraq. I kinder, gentler individual would have seen the country as we see it now.
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