What??? No grave dancing????

[L A Woman]

In the year that I have been a member of DU....

You dance on the grave of Aaron Spelling, a known liberal, because "he made trashy tv!"

You dance on the grave of Patsy Ramsey, a woman whose little girl was murdered and who was convicted by the media and cleared by DNA (an event the media ignored) because "she killed Jon Benet! I just know she did!!!!"

You dance on the grave of a former president because he was a Republican and "he pardoned Nixon!"

You dance on the grave of a young husband, father and TV host named Steve Irwin who clearly adored animals because "he was abusing that stingray!"

But one of the most despicable pieces of shit who ever graced this planet is hanged and for the last two days all I've seen is thread after thread of people who sympathize with him. Sorry, but I served in the first Gulf War and I met many displaced Kuwaitis whom HE attacked without provocation. I remember his incessant mocking of American servicewomen like myself. And of course we all know he is responsible for the cold slaughter of thousands of people.

Honestly....I am no fan of the death penalty, and I celebrate nothing tonight, but the disparity is puzzling and, frankly, sickening.

[EFerrari]

1. I'm sorry we're not murderous enough for you.

[Moochy]

18. More state secrets revealed!

Anyone else seeing this page an awful lot tonight?

Ignore list updated

The user has been added to your Ignore list.

[EFerrari]

22. lol

I love the corps.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[L A Woman]

56. i'm not sure what this has to do with saddam's execution...

but...bitter much?

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[EFerrari]

62. This is the kind of night where I think I need to go to the Lounge

and try not to hurt anyone, real christian or Velveeta.

[Moochy]

2. One Slice of Concern Pie coming up!

Yum!

[cosmik debris]

3. never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."


My 2 cents from John Donne

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

10. John Donne. Perfect. n/t

MKJ

[beam me up scottie]

47. Seconded.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. Those folks died natural deaths, not outright murder by the cabal. DU is dedicated to recognizing

the crimes against humanity of gwb and the cabal for whom he operates. (among many other recognitions of crimes).

edited to add: this is not an endorsement of Sadam Hussein, just recognition that the cabal can invade a country and kill its leader to make its sockpuppet quit whining and have a momemt of gratification.

MKJ

[eileen_d]

5. Yep

DU is full of contradictions. And not a few trolls IMO.

[libnnc]

6. Somebody's been shopping...

at Big-Broad-Brushes-R-Us. You had a coupon, huh?

[L A Woman]

11. if you weren't a grave dancer...

you shouldn't be offended. And if you were anywhere near here after the deaths of the people I mentioned, you KNOW that took place - and it took place on an insane level. It's not something that is up for debate.

[libnnc]

15. I've been around for a while

If you bothered to read my profile. But not ALL DUers engaged in "grave dancing". There are a certain few posters here who like to stir up shit that ends up giving all of us a bad name. Not ALL DUers act the way you've described.

But you didn't hesitate to paint us all that way did you...

[LibraLiz1973]

16. TRUE

your right on in the original OP and now



I see hypocrites

[Strelnikov_]

44. Yep, The Wagner Spray Painters Must Have Been On Sale n/t

[Hoosier Dem]

7. AMEN!!!!!!!

Thank you for your flash of intellect.

All this hand-wringing over Saddam is idiotic. This man was a mass murderer on par with Idi Amin or Pol Pot. While i have opposed this farce of a war from the start, I will not have ANY pang of conscience over the death of this piece of human sewage.

Now, I also do NOT agree with making this a media circus. The deed is done, its over.

Lets put our attention back where it belongs, on the lying bastard who got us into this quagmire in the first place.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Oh come on

Ford died a natural death and everyone lionized him. He was a piece of shit president and I'm sorry a human being died, but big whoop.

Saddam is a big piece of shit, I agree. But the US fucking went out of their way to kill this guy in a same of justice. I won't miss Saddam (never knew him actually), but I won't celebrate his death. Or lionize him. But I can still call bullshit on the way GWB went about killing him.

[seabeyond]

8. at least i can say i have consistantly NOT danced on any of the graves

i dont like any of it. the death of saddam is reaping what he sowed. the glee in this execution is the sick that we the people are and has nothing to do with what saddam is accused of.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Be careful who you accuse of what

I personally did none of those things. Almost all of DU did none of those things.

And I'm still not dancing on anyone's grave. Not me.

[originalpckelly]

12. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner of the "mirror, mirror" awards.

Can't believe people when Gerald Ford died, such total glee that he did. We didn't have to say anything, we didn't have to beatify him, we could have been quiet.

Oh no, we totally fucking went after him.

And now Saddam, we didn't have to say anything, we could have pointed out that his trial was unfair, but instead of stopping there, people went so far to really imply he wasn't guilty of war crimes. Insanity.

The past few days make me wonder if I want to post on DU anymore, and I love, I mean absolutely LOVE DU.

***I should say that there are a number of people like us, who understand how messed up this is. I don't mean to be mean to them.

[renie408]

26. I agree

I really like being here. I like how much information gets tossed around in here. But OMG! It can wear on you like...I dunno. Something wearing. Sometimes I really feel like I have fallen down the rabbithole when I log in.

[Strelnikov_]

43. And Who The Fuck Is This 'We' You Speak Of?

Some people expressed an opinion you did not agree with. So what?

And since when do said posts establish the position of all those participating in this forum? Did I miss a vote?

This is an internet discussion group, after all.

[fishwax]

87. yes, it's SHOCKING that a broad range of opinions would be expressed

on a message board populated by thousands from diverse points of view.

One could just as easily say that "we" said people shouldn't speak ill of the dead after Ford died and then "we" got all bloodthirsty and jingoistic in celebrating saddam's death.

Yeah, some people didn't like Ford, and some people felt that the encomiums after his death ought not be allowed to establish his legacy without challenge. And some people (some of them the same people) don't like the death penalty or thought the trial was a sham and don't think Saddam should have been executed, or perhaps just see it as a ploy to grab headlines and momentum that we shouldn't buy into by celebrating. And "we" are supposed to read that as some kind of obvious hypocrisy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Several things

1.- A minority of DU did dance on those graves... yet not all did... at least I know I did not

2.- Sadman Hussein was an animal

3.- He should have been remanded to the Hague

4.- If I need to explain to you about Victor's Justice, then we have a problem

5.- He was considered a POW... since you served, need I spell to you what we did is against the rules? And also exactly how?

6.- The Maliki Government is NOT independent of the US

7.- This execution will open the gates of hell for both Iraqis and US Troops.

Hope you enjoy your false outrage

[madrchsod]

17. i missed the saddam thing....

some of the other was a bit over the top and some just tasteless but that`s freedom of speech and your right to question and their right to defend.

[UTUSN]

19. The ONLY one dancing is Shrub, so why are you ASKING HERE? n/t

[johnnie]

20. This goes well beyond those other deaths

I don't dance on anyone's grave, never have and never will. But this whole thing has little to do with Saddam. I find it strange that you would put this in the same light as Ford, Spelling and Patsy Ramsey.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[funkybutt]

23. Aaron Spelling died?

hmm..i didn't notice.

i don't celebrate death.

[calimary]

24. Perhaps the grave dancing would best be left to dubya.

Which means I'll not be joining him.

NOBODY whose posts I've seen has been glorifying or sympathizing with Saddam Hussein. Perhaps I've missed some.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Saddam went ahead with his Kuwaiti invasion after being told by April Glaspie, ghwb's emissary at the time, and told Saddam we had no opinion on what he was about to do - in effect, giving him a tacit go-ahead, 'cause we weren't going to get involved (at the very least, that's how he interpreted it).

From wikipedia:

April Catherine Glaspie (born April 26, 1942), American diplomat, is best-known for her meeting with Saddam Hussein prior Gulf War of 1991 in which she told the Iraqi dictator that the US official policy was not to get involved in Iraq's dispute with Kuwait.

Glaspie was born in Vancouver, Canada, and graduated from Mills College in Oakland, California in 1963 and from Johns Hopkins University Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies in 1965. In 1966 she entered the United States diplomatic service, where she became an expert on the Middle East. After postings in Kuwait, Syria and Egypt Glaspie was appointed Ambassador to Iraq in 1989. She was the first woman to be appointed an American Ambassador to an Arab country. She had a reputation as a respected Arabist, and her instructions were to broaden cultural and commercial contacts with the Iraqi regime in hopes of "civilizing" it. Glaspie's appointment followed a period from 1980 to 1988 during which the United States had given covert support to Iraq during its war with Iran (see Iran-Iraq War). Although the extent of U.S. assistance to Iraq during the period is disputed (the Soviet Union and France also supplied aid to Iraq), it was substantial.


Meetings with Saddam Hussein
It was in this context that Glaspie had her first meeting with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and his Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz on July 25, 1990. At least two transcripts of the meeting have been published. The State Department has not confirmed the accuracy of these transcripts, but Glaspie's cable has been released at the Bush Library and placed online by the Margaret Thatcher Foundation.<1>

One version of the transcript has Glaspie saying: "We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?"

Later the transcript has Glaspie saying: "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

(snip)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

I don't mean to sound as though I'm giving you a hard time. I'm not. Your post is understandable, as are the feelings behind it. And NOBODY'S out there around here at the moment ready to call the Pope to nominate him for canonization. Nobody. Certainly not I. I bet there are LOTS of raw feelings of varying degrees of disgust - on all sides of this, this evening. Please understand, no offense or criticism intended here.

BTW, I haven't seen too terribly much dancing on graves lately. Lots of circumspection. Goods and bads, combined.

Peace.

A VERY disquieting night, this.

[renie408]

25. Touche.

You make an interesting point.

I am not happy about Hussein, but then I wasn't happy about any of those other deaths, either.

[Balbus]

27. Absolutely, a fantastic post!

You nailed it right on the head

[GenDem]

29. No dancing here.

Call me a bleeding heart....just think that hangings are barbaric. Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator that our government facilitated, until we decided to make him an enemy. Sadly, I believe the suffering will escalate because of this.

As for President Ford...no dancing there either. I respected the man.

Wasn't posting during the other grave dances.

[RB TexLa]

30. Very true

[johnfunk]

32. Grave dancing? I've gotcher grave dancing right here...

[Ms. Clio]

33. Oh, what a load of shit

GD is nothing if not full of people who are happy to dance on Saddam's grave tonight, all very self-righteously and piously and in the name of humanity, of course.

[K8-EEE]

35. No kidding! I see no sympathy for Saddam

It's disgusting the circus they made out of it though...

[EFerrari]

72. Love that pix, Ms. Clio.

Always good to see a happy camper.

[Ms. Clio]

77. Thank you! She IS a very happy camper!

and I'm thrilled to have her.

[EFerrari]

80. I'm bringing up a kid by myself. Here goes nothing.

I thought I was all done, but no.

[Ms. Clio]

82. we never get done having those kinds of babies, do we?

too cute!!

[beam me up scottie]

85. Okay, my kids' turn!

Brothers in arms:

[EFerrari]

86. LOL! Look at that!

Thanks, I needed that.

lol

[beam me up scottie]

88. Cats are solitary animals, emotionally distant and unaffectionate.

Somebody forgot to tell these boys that.

Hell, I can't go to the bathroom without them panicking, I think they're worried there's an escape hatch in there and I won't come out...

[EFerrari]

90. These twins also didn't get the memo.

I was fostering them and at the last second, couldn't get them adopted so in the car they went. They're now the biggest lap cats in the world. That's cool.

[aaronbees]

34. Sympathy for Saddam?

I have yet to see one post or thread with "sympathy for Saddam." Would you please point to where that can be found? What I have seen here is outrage over our government's shredding of international law and the bullshit propaganda this piece of street thug justice will become. I will shed no tears for what happened to Saddam personally -- on some level, he was a true piece of shit and I'm not unhappy he met this end.

But to see this country go on its warmongering rampage in the Middle East and make a mockery of "justice" with a henchman we ourselves propped up .... now that I'll cry about. Why? Because we'll get payback, and good people such as yourself will be sent back to the Middle East over and over as long as this fucked up cycle continues. No doubt about it ... our country will get its comeuppance over what happened in Baghdad today, and then we'll dish it right back and it will return to smack us right back in our faces. Welcome to a vicious hell. Damn straight I'll shed a tear on that.

As for the other examples of gravedancing here, I agree.

[lala_rawraw]

36. I have yet to dance on anyone's grave

either literally or metaphorically, thank you very much!

[K8-EEE]

37. I Hate Those "YOU'RE NOT REACTING CORRECTLY!"

Posts. You know, you can't find ANY POSTS here that you agree with re: this execution? They're all over the map -- find someone you agree with, join a discussion, argue the point with somebody or go to another site but I hate the lecturing, it's stupid.

I think you will the vast majority here don't "dance" on anybody's grave.

[daleo]

39. Some 600,000 Iraqis died just to get our little hanging of Saddam

That's the real issue. Who are we in the west to say the sacrifice of their lives was worth it, just as long as the tyrant Saddam died? What gave us the right to destroy their nation?

[Strelnikov_]

52. +3000 US, + $2 Trillion, And The Debacle Has Not Yet Even Begun

And all considering he was probably a few years from dropping dead like "Turkmenbashi" Niyazov.

Yep. Big win.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[hfojvt]

41. Who are you talking to?

I do not remember any dancing here about Aaron Spelling, although OM's thread was not complimentary. It was not celebrating his death, but critical of his life's work. DU has also been split maybe 60-40 over Ford. DU was split, by my armchair guess about 99-1 between mourning Irwin and criticizing him. Nothing approaching dancing, and several threads started to criticize people who had criticized Irwin (and I remember posting in those threads saying 'you are exxagerating this problem. It's like 3 people').

But the juxtaposition of extreme criticism of Ford and mourning for Saddam, although neither was universal, is kinda sad. DU has lost its soul.

[tonka023]

42. it wasn't Sadam that was executed

it was his body double. Sadam's probably
living in luxury somewhere like Monaco.
Sadam had many body double's, and
the only thing they could possibly use
to convince you that he was Sadam was
that he was holed up for a few months
and didn't shave. A close look could
tell you this wasn't the real Sadam.
And his teeth were vastly different.
And didn't Sadam's wife even say that
it wasn't her husband??? And he sure
didn't act like Sadam. That's why
they couldn't try him justly, and
somewhere like the Hague. And that's
why they killed him.

[SPKrazy]

45. Geeeze Come ON! Saddam Sucked and He KILLED PEOPLE

no one should celebrate anyone's death, but I get your point LA Woman

[beam me up scottie]

46. Really? What exactly IS her point?

I mean, besides showing me the difference between "real" christians and "fake" ones?

[SPKrazy]

53. Well Without Taking Her Post Out Of The Context Here BMUS

and looking at it within the context of your past experiences with her, all I have to go on is that her point is that people have celebrated all these other things, but are sympathizing with a monster here in regards to Saddam

Your issues with her have nothing to do with this post I'm afraid. I won't be taken into that argument you have with her.

Peace!

[beam me up scottie]

63. You mean her accusations that DUers were dancing on graves and are now mourning Saddam?

Oh, sorry, I don't mean to take her out of context.

Why, that would be unfair, wouldn't it?

[RestoreGore]

48. WHO HAS SYMPATHIZED WITH HIM?

All I have seen are people stating that he should have gotten a fairer trial. I thought that was how it worked in a DEMOCRATIC country. Isn't Iraq supposedly a DEMOCRATIC country now? And FYI, I personally did not dance on anyone's grave here so I don't understand why you are lumping everyone in that comment. I don't dance on peoples' graves, nor do I celebrate capital punishment. I am appalled that THIS COUNTRY along with China, Saudi Arabia, and Iran are the ONLY countries that now carry out this barbaric practice, as Iraq now also does after the American provisional govt made sure it was put back in their constitution. I think it is morally wrong no matter WHO it is done to, and I also think that dictators and tyrants should be dealt with at the Hague.

I am also actually wondering why he wasn't tried for all of the thousands of people he supposedly gassed and tortured. He was only tried for killing one hundred forty eight people after all he was was said to have done? WHY? Where was the trial in the HAGUE that should have been filled with the evidence and testimony of ALL of his crimes and ALL of those who enabled him? Was the Bush administration afraid to allow that because too much about how they propped him up would have come out? I'm actually angry he was executed as well because there was still much we needed to know about those years and our involvement in them. If this country truly did sell him the gas he used to kill people, then their blood is also on our hands. Does that make you feel good?

Why is it that people seem to think that DEATH is the ONLY justice? Do you realize that sometimes rotting for the rest of your miserable life in a hole having to deal with your ghosts is a fate worse than death? And where did you see anyone state he didn't deserve to be punished for his crimes? Why is having principles now considered wrong? They have just eased all of his burdens and may also down the road make him a martyr by doing this and I am sick of people telling me that I am sympathizing with HIM just because I WANTED A FAIR TRIAL in an international court of justice to get to the WHOLE truth because I am a moral person concerned about us NOT becoming what we have executed. It has nothing to do with SYMPATHY, but everything to do with JUSTICE and my sadness at what this country has become, so that dog just won't hunt.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[NMMNG]

49. Dupe

[k_jerome]

50. excellent post. nt.

[NMMNG]

51. Grave dancing is deplorable

I don't care how heinous the dead person was in life, "dancing on the grave" of that person is, IMO, crude and immoral.

But what do I know about morals, given that I'm an atheist?

[kikiek]

55. I would have preferred an in depth trial that revealed the war crimes from

the Bush I and Bush II administrations. The information on our role in the politics of Iraq and if/how it influenced the people Saddam did attack could very well be buried with him. This and the fact that I never dance on any grave and oppose the death penalty makes me feel less than joyous.

[L A Woman]

57. Umm, I didn't realize this would have to be spelled out....

if you weren't one of the MANY, MANY people who were dancing on the graves of the people mentioned in the original post - I am not talking about you, am I?????

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. Ummm...then post in those threads instead of broadbrushing,k?

It's not so very hard. Unless one is looking to draw tons of attention to one's posts. I am not talking about you, am I????

[beam me up scottie]

64. Well, that's the problem with broad brushing, isn't it?

Not spelling out who you're referring to.

Nice thread, really.

Just what DU needs, another sanctimonious holier-than-thou sermon.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. And then the backwards two step out of it...

I mean it wasn't "you people" she was talking about it was "you people" over there. Kind of like Arsenio Hall.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[L A Woman]

68. i feel like i own a piece of you...

have you lost sleep over me?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[beam me up scottie]

81. Betty? Is that you? Ms. Bowers? Jesus is on the phone.

[L A Woman]

71. I guess if it were me reading that....

and I read "you danced on the grave of steve irwin" and I knew that wasn't me, I would know the OP wasn't talking about me. But I forget that I have to dumb down the conversation around here sometimes.

[Strelnikov_]

73. "Forget that I have to dumb down the conversation around here"

If that is the way you feel, then why are you here?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[beam me up scottie]

78. You're an excellent photographer.

And an awesome judge of character!



Love your fur kid, by the way. Just beautiful.

[Ms. Clio]

79. Not my picture, actually, but sometimes I feel it is just quite appropriate!

Thanks for the sweet words about my kiddo, BMUS!

[beam me up scottie]

83. Animals are great, aren't they?

The clods in my city rang the church bells tonight.

I can't remember the last time they did that.

Give me animals over people like them any day.

[Ms. Clio]

84. nothing says "Jesus is a God of love" like church bells on execution day

I'd take cockroaches over people like those.

[charlie]

75. Around here, eh?

There it is again. Go ahead and "dumb down" your conversation. I'd like to see if it can be done.

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. I did? I danced?

Where?

Put the brush away already. God these kinds of posts are just plain stupid.

[quinnox]

59. It is true

Talk about bizarre. But of course it isn't fair to paint all of DU that way, but the basic facts are true. I'm astonished how anyone who calls themself a progressive can defend Saddam or sympathize with him in anyway. What is progressive about being a super-thug and killer who has rape rooms for women? How can anyone shed tears for a monster like Saddam Hussein? It boggles the mind.

[Ms. Clio]

67. No, it's not true at all

I notice that you, like the OP and others in this thread, never have any actual LINKS to this multitude of dreadful posts wherein the alleged shedding of tears for Saddam is occurring. Not criticism of the farce of a trial that preceded his execution, mind you, but actual words of love and concern for Saddam, himself, the person, or a genuine belief that he was innocent of any wrongdoing.

You will not find ONE, let alone ten, or a dozen, or anything like a representative sample of DU. To state otherwise is nothing but DU-bashing in the finest tradition of FReak Republik. And after 6 years of that predictable bullshit, I'm heartily sick of it.

[beam me up scottie]

69. You need a new dictionary.

Progressives can sympathize with EVERY person who suffers, even the relatives of boogie men, and yes, the boogie men themselves, since most of them were created and sustained by our government.

Progressives don't post smug sanctimonious self-serving passive/aggressive threads like this one.

Progressives mourn the death of justice.

No dancing here, not at all, but no condemnation of my fellow progressives for being humane, either.

[fishwax]

89. you haven't noticed any grave dancing for saddam?

[yardwork]

91. Locking

This is not helpful.