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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:29 PM
Original message
Regardless of how it came about, justice is justice
and I can think of no other punishment that comes anywhere close to punishing Saddam Hussein for his crimes and providing justice.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:31 PM
Original message
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
nt
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. I so disagree.
The idea truly sickens me. We're complicit in a crime everytime we enable an execution. And the idea that we're somehow not responsible for this outcome is ludicrous.

Even for SH, the death penalty is not the answer.
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mw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Saddam's execution is a travesty
If Saddam should be executed, it's up to Iraq and not the US to decide.

Saddam was tried by America, jailed by America, guarded by America, and he'll be executed by America, in a US gallows located in a US Green Zone, in a US occupied country.

How embarrassing to be an American today. George Bush manages yet again to outdo himself, and bring America to yet-lower lows.

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's just embarrassing to be a human being
on this sick planet where people will find justification for anything.

Karma is coming George Bush. You cannot steal a sovereign country. You will pay.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. All of those things may be true
but let's talk the reality. Regardless of the kangaroo courts erected for Saddam, the man was guilty of thousands of crimes. Crimes he committed with the help and support of the US government. We sold him the ability to mass murder and he chose that.

Saddam was a very bad man and there is NO evidence to the contrary. Was he ultimately a patsy, a fall guy, absolutely correct, a puppet of American power, totally.

Although not a Jew I adhere to the Talmudic advice that the death penalty not be used flagrantly and irresponsibly and only in rare instances do we kill others in the name of the state. Mass muderers, child molesters/killers fall into that category. If the evidence is overwhelming and the person cops to it, I think we do society well by removing this person from EVER having the chance to escape. Do I hate them? not unless it was personal, but no. I look at them like I would an animal (big fan of animals) that was sick, rabid. Compassion, sure. Reality? Kill them as quickly and humanely as possible.

But there are problems. We have plenty of history to show the mistakes made by incorrect verdicts and many later found innocent AFTER executed. It is fact that the death penalty has been misporportionally used to send the poor and people of color to death, many innocent. It is what changed the mind of the Illinois governor when he saw so many absolved by opening up their cases and using state of the art technology like DNA studies


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dave_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. But this isn't justice
Justice has to be for all or it isn't justice, just selective retribution.

If this was justice, all who committed commensurate crimes would be subject to the same process and punishment.

They aren't. So it isn't.

It's a political murder. If you think that's OK in this instance, you're free to say so. But don't call it justice.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is not Justice its a way for Bush to say
I told you this war was worth it
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mw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep. And with Bush about to retreat in Iraq, he has to kill Saddam
Bush has to kill Saddam now because when Bush cuts and runs from Iraq, Saddam would end up, eventually, a free man.

Bush can't have that. He needs at least a little bit of fodder--a dead Saddam--to feed the mindless, lobotomized, shit-for-brains reich wing Bush supporter types.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. At Fox News, the apologists went on and on about Saddam's horrible crimes.
"Crimes that were never covered." How's that for a load of crap. If those "journalists" were interested in covering stories about atrocities that are being covered up, they'd have plenty of "breaking news" stories for as long as they live.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. He should have been tried at the Hague
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 09:50 PM by nadinbrzezinski
PERIOD

This is winner's justice, and was condemned by the family of nations

We are about to help commit a great INJUSTICE

And no, he was no saint, but should have been turned over to the Hague, why wasn't he? He would have called to the stand one Donald H Rumsfled.

We have our hands full of the blood if Iraqis
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. This isn't justice, it's murder.
And, are you even sure you know who this man is or was?
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Millions of Iraqi's will tell you he is the man who murdered
their father, brothers, mother, sister, husband, uncle, aunt, cousin or friends.

I think the war is bullshit- let me be CLEAR about that.
But I think this evil son of a bitch should have been hung A LONG TIME AGO.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. He did most of that on our payroll.
:shrug:
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. so what? that makes it worse
if somebody pays me to kill somebody and i am a cold blooded professional hired killer i sure as shit should fry for it



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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. How enlightened.
An eye for an eye. Didn't Ghandi have something to say about that?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Victor's justice is NOT justice
and that trial was a damn joke...

So two wrongs make a right for you?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. If he should have been hung it should have been determined by a fair trial.
Not another Bush scam.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. What about Saddam's other victims
Iran, after Japan, is the country that has been most affected by weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam rained the stuff down on them, when will the innocent Iranians get answers for that?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ted Bundy kills Jeffrey Dahmer and you call it justice...?
I guess? :shrug:
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. i don't think ted bundy killed dahmer, i think it was a different prisoner
now you mention it, i don't remember what prisoner or prisoners (i thought there were more than one who knifed dahmer but memory fails) but you know what?

dahmer is no damn loss to the world and neither is saddam



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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I thought it might go over your head..
Sorry...One murderer killing another murderer....Get it? That's justice?
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. I got it
and kind of liked the metaphor.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. It does no "justice" to the alrady-tarnished US image around the world
....but as long as we have a feel-good killing then all-is-well, eh?
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm trying to look on bright side of all this......
Perhaps this is just a trial-run for what's in store for BushCo. I mean if we're into bringing bad guys to justice and all......? :shrug:
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. Not to mention
that it keeps folks distracted from the large-scale slaughterhouse gang that hired him.

Oh yea and it was a nice puppet judge that brought down the sword.

What a bloodthirsty nation this is.

Mass psychosis.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. That sounds awfully Machiavellian. Justice would have been served if
he had been put on trial for ALL of his crimes, not just the ones he committed on his own, but the ones in which the U.S. was complicit in.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. If you disregard the means, there is no justice.
Sham trials do not yield justice.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. So a clock stuck on 12:00 is not right twice a day?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No, it's not right. It's coincidence.
Thanks for asking.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Then call it a coincidence
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:16 PM by RGBolen

It's a coincidence that he got what he deserved, and it's a coincidence that the clock has the right time on it.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Fine. But coincidence is not justice.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:15 PM by mondo joe
That may not offend your ethics, such as they are.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. "got what he deserved"
What the fuck does that mean? So do we kill the executioner now for killing Saddam? Look, I agree that Saddam was a prick (and one we helped create) but aren't we advanced enough as a country and as a people to not have bloodlust for the death penalty?
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Correct, it's not what he deserved, It's the most severe punishment

we have for humans.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. How is this punishment?
He's dead now. There is no punishment for him. OK, I'll admit, as an atheist, I think he's worm food. But I don't get how this is punishment unless you think he is in hell now? Or maybe he's banging his virgins. Who knows? Wouldn't it be better to keep him in prison for the rest of his life.

Or hell, if it is severe punishment we are out for, why not torture the fuck out of him for as many decades as we can. That would show him. Cut 1" squares out of his skin and soak him in lemon juice. Waterboarding.

This is just sickening.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. you do not think being put to death is punishment?
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. He's dead and all
But he is not conscious of the fact that he is being punished. He's dead. He's decomposing and has not concept of that. Sure there is no chance for him to continue his life, but it seems a lot easier than sitting in jail for the rest of your natural life. And for someone who seems so hell-bent on giving this SOB what he deserves, you sure seem to be hitching your pony to a short-term negative.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. not hell bent on it, just think it is a just end to his life
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. He killed people, so it is just to kill him
Don't you get dizzy from employing that kind of logic? If his killing people is a crime against humanity (and I will agree that we gave him the means to do some pretty heinous shit), then why is our killing of him not a smaller-scale crime against humanity?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. If you don't get it,
we cannot explain it to you.

Google Victor's Justice
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. So this is the lesson we want to teach Iraq?
Seriously. Seems kind of non-democratic to me. I mean, the US is the laughing stock of free countries for still having the death penalty and now we pass that legacy on to the "pillar of democracy" we are trying to "establish" in Iraq?
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. Is it still justice when another
more brutal criminal like bushit is still free to committ greater atrocities than Saddam?
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