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Saddam execution a freakin' farce!

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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:56 PM
Original message
Saddam execution a freakin' farce!
((this is a post from Josh Marshall that sums up EXACTLY how I feel about this sorry business of this gigantic orgasmic saddam execution story.))

snip

This whole endeavor, from the very start, has been about taking tawdry, cheap acts and dressing them up in a papier-mache grandeur -- phony victory celebrations, ersatz democratization, reconstruction headed up by toadies, con artists and grifters. And this is no different. Hanging Saddam is easy. It's a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.

big snip

These jokers are being dragged kicking and screaming to the realization that the whole thing's a mess and that they're going to be remembered for it -- defined by it -- for decades and centuries. But before we go, we can hang Saddam. Quite a bit of this was about the president's issues with his dad and the hang-ups he had about finishing Saddam off -- so before we go, we can hang the guy as some big cosmic 'So There!'

Marx might say that this was not tragedy but farce. But I think we need to get way beyond options one and two even to get close to this one -- claptrap justice meted out to the former dictator in some puffed-up act of self-justification as the country itself collapses in the hands of the occupying army.

Marty Peretz, with some sort of projection, calls any attempt to rain on this parade "prissy and finicky." Myself, I just find it embarrassing. This is what we're reduced to, what the president has reduced us to. This is the best we can do. Hang Saddam Hussein because there's nothing else this president can get right.

What do you figure this farce will look like 10, 30 or 50 years down the road? A signal of American power or weakness?

more at

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011729.php
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Murdering Saddam is a disgrace. A total disgrace. nt
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Murdering ? ....
Hmmmm ... I am anti-death penalty, so I am certainly against killing Saddam by ANY means .... but is this murder ? .... I mean: this man most certainly killed MANY people wrongly, women and children included ..... and he SHOULD be brought to some measure of justice for that ....

I am unclear whether killing him would constitute murder .... He would be wrongly killed, because captital punishment is itself wrong ... but hey, the man DID the crimes, and he should ROT in Prison, thats for sure ....
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Cold blooded premeditated murder, just like we murdered his sons.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 06:35 PM by cassiepriam
And splashed pictures of their corpses on the front pages of American newspapers.
They didn't even get the kangaroo court charade their father got.

The US supported Saddam for many years, until we decided we wanted
his oil. Then we stole his country, and killed half a million of Iraqis.
And now we murder him to shut him up. Forever.

We brought him to justice? Not our place to do so.
And the Iraqi people are not exactly going to throw
flowers at our feet for doing away with Saddam.

And I especially balk at the $2 trillion price tag for Saddam's head.
Could have bought a lot of health care and education for American children.
And my grandchildren will paying off this debt.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. intentionally killing someone is murder
don't care if the dead person was totally nasty and did a brazillion murders, still is murder.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. While I agree with most all of your sentiments ....
There are some basic facts to consider ...

Both of the Hussein sons were ANIMALS ... and while we didnt have a right to execute them, its not like they offered themselves for arrest .... They battled it out like dimestore cowboys, and lost ....

And I CERTAINLY thought the parading of the images in media was absolutely barbaric ....

But you present your comments in an all or nothing mode ... you make it hard to go against the thrust of your comments by wrapping unlikely claims (The presumed innocence of the Husseins) with valid statements about the vast cost, gross barbarity and illegitimacy of it all ...

I dont consider the deaths of Husseins sons, who even the most favorable sources would admit were barbaric assholes, to be 'murder' .... There are legitimate justifications for pursuing suspected murderers like those 'boys' .... and of all the acts of aggression in this debacle, the result of their loss is the least grevious ....

But all the other statements you posted are generally true, and I agree with them ...

What do they say in congress ? ... divide the question ?
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. There is no difference between Bush and Saddam.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 06:36 AM by cassiepriam
And American is acting in a way much more barbaric
than Saddam.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Yes, it's murder. Killing him on purpose is murder no matter
what he's done.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Same with Hitler!
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. And just what exactly did Saddam do? Saddam was a brutal dictator...
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 08:20 PM by originalpckelly
while we shouldn't have invaded Iraq to topple him, it was not because he's an innocent man, it's because it wasn't in our national interest.

I've had enough of this crap, this man is a fucking evil person. He will rank up at the top of the dictators list.

I won't be shedding tears for Saddam, nor should you.

It's not murdering him, even those like myself who despise him, yet understand that killing him is not in our national interest, don't call it that.

This has got to stop.

Saddam is not an innocent Afghani farmer, mistaken for a terrorist and sent to GITMO. There is absolutely no doubt he launched a war of aggression against Iran, killed many innocent boys and men in Dujail, and he committed absolute genocide during Anfal. Not only that, Saddam had a trial where he was given the rights of the accused.

I completely disagree with killing him, but I completely disagree with your labeling this as a murder.
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. No we're not murdering him we just sentenced him to death in a Kangaroo court
Why?

Because we're manly men.

Fuck justice we have a point to prove.

Hang him high! White p... USA! USA! USA!
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Pinochet, our boy, natural causes,
Pol Pot, probably our boy too, not hanged, Noriega, definately our boy, still in the joint. Why Saddam? Bush.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. There is no difference between Bush and Saddam.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. What we have done to Iraq is worse than anything Saddam did.
And there is no difference between Bush and Saddam.

America invaded their country on the pretext of morality and
democracy, which of course is a lie. We are as evil as Saddam.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Your denial that this is murder does not wash the blood off our hands. The
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 06:45 AM by cassiepriam
facts are that the US invaded another country and murdered the leader of that country after a farce of a kangaroo court.

The blood is on all of our hands for a long time.
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liberaliraqvet26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. While I will not shed a tear for him...
he should have been brought before the Hague for legitimacy. A kangaroo court obviously stacked against a defendant is not the way to serve justice.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I didn't expect anything
else from these tragic Machiavellian dipshits.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Read River Bend's latest post
and it may be even worse than a farce.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I have read it and think you should make this an
original post.....please. I considered doing it, but it was so full, that I didn't know which parts to copy. Everyone here should read the whole post. Thanks.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I already did
in General Discussion River Bend is back

Thanks
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. In my humble opinion he deserves killing, but
the problem I have is with the spectacle. Since when do we celebrate death? Don't yall find this rather macabre? At what price does his death come? How many American deaths = Saddam's death?

I read the right wing blogs daily (just a thing I do), and they are filled with testosterone, as if Saddam's death is the justification for this horrible, never-ending war.

Josh Marshall was correct....they got NOTHING right, but they will have killed Saddam. We should be so proud.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. How do you decide that someone deserves to die.
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Its only my opinion, but I do believe in the death penalty
in extreme cases....can't help what I believe. But, this public masturbation of his death, compared with the American/Iraqi deaths from this war is a joke. I really don't want to get into an argument (discussion) about the death penalty....I'm just one of those who see the justification in some cases.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Okay.
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Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not to be flippant, but I wonder if they'll use multiple ropes, just like the Pres. uses multiple
pens to sign a bill, so there will be enough souveniers to go around to Bubble Boy and his neocon cadre of corruption?
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. what disgusts me
In addition to the media aggrandisement, what bothers me is the show the US is making of "turning it over to the Iraqi government." First of all, there is no Iraqi government. There is a puppet government that no Iraqi respects or considers a government. So the US is making a show of turning it over to a phony baloney government. Stop with the charade already.

What's important is that many Iraqis do not consider the trial fair. This is just more of the U.S. interfering in the affairs of another state.

On another topic, Josh Marshall's writing on this, in particular the first and second paragraphs posted above, sum it up so well. Thanks to writers like JM for expressing it in such colorful, vivid language.



Cher
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
26. Americans are enjoying the blood and killing as much as Bush does.
We are becoming as crazy as he is.
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