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My wife says, America has lost it's soul.

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:55 AM
Original message
My wife says, America has lost it's soul.
While getting ready for work this morning over coffee, we have the news on in the background, they showed images of James Brown lying in repose, spoke of gerald ford's funeral rituals, mentioned that we'd reached 100 dead soldiers this month in Iraq and that bush had a meeting with his advisers and decided he'd wait just a while longer before he makes up his mind about sending more troops.

Then we switched to cspan and heard caller after caller say they'd like their kids to watch Saddam being hanged on live t.v. in prime time and she said, "America has lost it's soul", and I told her she nailed it.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. We went down to the crossroads...
and sold our souls to the devil...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. We're all Robert Johnsons, now.
The country I knew when I was in school, and even the country I knew that actively protested Viet Nam, is no longer the country I live in. It's a country that elevates people who evaded their duty and smears those who did their duty. It's now an outlaw country without honor, with citizens who know little of 'duty,' and it shames me. :cry:

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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. at least robert johnson produced art with his soul
we produce greed
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Who's Willie Brown? Canada?
Are they those that will learn their lesson from us and not go down to the crossroads?
The Professor
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. Robert Johnson? Someone please enlighten me. nt
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. The man many might call the Father of the Blues.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 12:32 PM by TahitiNut
Quite possibly the most influential person in American music history. (In terms of a musical genre.) Just about every top guitarist credits Robert Johnson as being the greatest ... including Eric Clapton.

The (apocryphal) legend is that Robert Johson sold his soul to the devil (at the crossroads) in exchange for his musical talent.

On edit: Here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Johnson_ (musician)

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. Please add to your list....
the vilification of poor folk, and turning back the New Deal and what came later.

So what if some Katrina people who survived the Super Dome and Convention Center ended up having to kill themselves because they had nowhere to live, and no way to survive? "It's working out well for them."
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
52. It seems with every crime against America those who commit
these atrocity's train the next generation of criminals to avoid the law.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes she did. I think humanity has problems still, too.
I watched one of George Carlin's shows from 2005 last night, and he went on a 20-minute, no-fucking-around rant about how stupid and horrible people really are. Not the typical comedic rant about dumb people. He really meant it. He seemed pissed off as hell, making sarcastic comments all over the place.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm afraid your wife is correct. Although I don't think it's the American
People who've lost their soul...but the Government, and the Corporate Media (which is really nothing more than an arm of said government).
We need to reclaim what is rightfully ours.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. Unfortunately, the "government" IS the people.
That's the thing about a democracy.... it's WE, the people.

That's what's so sad, and so overwhelming.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Not this government. They've made it clear time and time again,
that the will of the People be damned..
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yes, sadly, I know that.
But, part of the problem is so many citizens don't understand that.

We have to wake them up.

Maybe a giant alarm clock? :hi:
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. Yes we do. Let's reclaim this beautiful country of ours.
This is our Damn country too.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Someone wants their kids to watch the hanging?
That's very very sad.
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SoyCat Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. What year is this? You'd think we would have gotten past the hangings in the town square mentality
by now. That is just unbelievably sick. If the people with that level of blood lust actually got the hanging aired on television, how long do you think it would be before they started demanding public hangings as punishment here?
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. They probably told their kids that Saddam did 9/11.
That's typical pea-brained thinking. Why on earth would that person want their child to see someone else die? Sick.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Your wife is right...........
it explains how 'WE' ended up HERE.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Most of us haven't sold our souls to anyone
although you'd never know it listening to the rabid right. We do outnumber them, but they're little wads of free floating rage and will take every opportunity to blast hate at anyone they've been given permission to hate, including the sensible majority, us.

I have, from time to time, considered rejecting my vow of nonviolence when it comes to these howler monkeys from all these little hate-filled wingnut churches who keep returning to their little tin Jesus in the White House no matter how badly they've been battered, lied to, and threatened---just like abused spouses who won't leave because they LOOOOOVE him/her. I'm beginning to think the only thing that will get through to these loons is a 2x4, metaphorical or physical, applied smartly and repeatedly between the eyes.

In the meantime, most people will be pushed around by a noisy minority only so long before some of them will start pushing back.

I think that time is coming up quite rapidly.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. She's right
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:27 AM by Lydia Leftcoast
The American people have sold their souls to commercial interests, so that many of them no longer have any culture except what the media are currently promoting. They are blank slates on which the corporate world and its allies in government can write any message they choose.

The popular culture promotes meanness, greed, extreme gender roles, and general empty-headedness. While this is supposed to be the land of the free and individualistic, in fact it's the rare person who dares to defy the messages of complacent stupdity drummed into us by nearly every media outlet.

People don't know American history, they don't know American literature, they don't know American music beyond what's currently popular, and they sure don't know much about the rest of the world. Corporate interests wouldn't have it any other way, because an ignorant populace is an easier market for glitzy but worthless crap.

But hey, why worry? American Idol and Survivor are on, and I've got a new multi-function cell phone that I can use to talk about them.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. "Reality" shows are the new reality, while real reality is hidden.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. it's not lost
we just don't know where it is at the moment...

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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. We have become a violent, blood thirsty nation.
Retribution, revenge, might makes right, you mess with the bull you get the horns.

Makes me wanna fucking puke.

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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
47. "Become" -- I think we always were. As H. Rap Brown once said,
"Violence is as American as apple pie." Truer words have seldom been spoken.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think it is more than just their souls Americans have lost
They have lost their common sense too.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. We never had a soul, we were self deluded, its just that the mask is slipping off...
Its the myth that the United States is any better than any other nation that perpetuates this illusion.
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Kickin_Donkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. Bingo!
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. Yes, I agree with her.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:20 AM by Lone_Star_Dem
And she's lost her heart also. We've become a nation of short-sighted, hate filled people driven by mindless greed and a false sense of superiority.
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nancyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That pretty much sums it up.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. What I don't get
What I don't get is why this impending act of barbarism is not met with international outcry. It's getting tacit approval from every politician and country that does not speak out against it. What an unjust bloodthirsty world we have on our hands!

-85% Jimmy

I could handle a proper trial from an international court and life in prison, but getting hung by a kangaroo court for doing stuff the USA approved of at the time it was done is the very pinnacle of hypocrisy. Where the fuck is the outrage?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. And this differs from any other time in American history?
There hasn't been a time period lasting no more than a week where the United States HASN'T acted this way.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. The Great Depression era?
Horrific as it was, it did manage to humble many who thought America was superior and beyond the reach of such devastation. You're still right, however. We have painfully short memories and as such keep reverting back to our old ways.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. That's actually a damning indictment of the American Character, if you think about it...
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:50 AM by Solon
Most Americans had to practically starve to death to stop the wanton destruction and attempted dominance of our sphere of influence.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Indeed they did
And the millions who suffered were forever altered. My grandparents were very different than the Americans of today, but my parents didn't take their warnings to heart. My father is a classic example of the greedy all for me mentality of many southern Republicans. He now has to deal with the cuts to medicare and soaring prescription drug prices, not to mention having been forced into early retirement and substantial loss in his 401K.

In the end I guess we reap what we sow.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yeah. We used to be better at keeping it all covered up.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 10:53 AM by Jackpine Radical
It may actrually be a sign of progress that we now know so much more about the crimes that are being committed in our names. You can find out about things like East Timor and our other little ventures these days, thanks to the wonderful medium that is about to carry my words to you. In the old days, our Marines were rooting around all over Central America and the public hadn't a clue. And before that, we were charging up San Juan Hill in a patriotic frenzy to take Cuba and the Phillipines away from Spain in a trumped-up war. Before that we massacred the Indians for their land, and before that we massacred each other over the right to own slaves, and before that we stole land from Mexico in a so-called war that was more of a glorified armed robbery. Only Thoreau objected to that one, and went to jail for it.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Actually, Lincoln was the Only Representative to vote against the Mexican American war...
Not saying he was a saint, but it did cost him re-election.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Lincoln -- my favorite quote of his is "The best way to get rid of
an enemy is to make him a friend."
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
20. I agree and wonder if the rest of the world cares or have they lost
their souls too?
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. Sorry, I disagree
It always seems easier for people to look at the negative side of things, but I try to look for the bright spots. America is no different than it has always been, it is just more "in your face" than it used to be.

I'm not trying to trivialize what your wife said, but I think that by giving up, you are..well.... giving up.

A quick example of what I see is that I opened a thread today right here at DU this morning morning and it said that the members here at DU have already donated over $20,000 to help feed the hungry. Last I looked, many members here are Americans. DU is just a small sampling of what is out there in this country, and it's not all bad.

Please don't take my post the wrong way, I know that things can look bleak every now and again, but America hasn't lost it's soul, it just has been darkened by some evil people. Last month showed me that America's soul is being reborn and rejuvenated. The numbers on the polls for bush are low and the numbers of Americans against the war are rising.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. That's called, "A candle in Hell."
Many years ago I finally wrapped my brain and psyche around a concept that has served me well to this day. Once I have no resistance to being 100% WRONG, the percentage of my "rightness" is restored. As long as I remain in defensive mode, nothing changes. I no longer "need" to be right as it serves no purpose. Scorn can be heaped upon me and I offer no resistance KNOWING that TRUTH will out.

The American people have a L-O-N-G history of unaccountability, buffered by the myths about their own inate "goodness." Sooner or later the facade will be stripped away.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. I don't quite get ya..
All I know is that people are people, and it isn't about what part of the Earth you happen to hang out at that matters much. I feel no need to be "right", I feel the need to be as good as I can be as a person to live in a semi-healthy mindset.

To look around and whine about what 6.5 billion other people are doing does not get anything done. America hasn't lost its soul, perhaps it never had a soul to start with, but it is no different than it has been around the world for thousands of years.

It's not only "The American people have a L-O-N-G history of unaccountability", replace "The American people" with "Humanity" and then we would be heading in the right path. But I have no control over humanity as a whole and even though I have opportunities to change bits and specks of the world, it's far better than sulking over it.

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. I appreciate the tone of your response
and hope that you are able to tolerate my explanation and expansion. You are quite right that "people are people." We all share hopes and dreams. What must be factored into the current equation is that the U.S. MIC is the most powerful and destructive force in the world today. When the forces that govern IT make a decision, no matter how flawed, EVERYONE SUFFERS.

When America's children are gathered into an organization, whose goal is to brainwash them into conducting mass murder for the sake of corporate profits, against those who have never posed a real and present threat to them and their families, "We the People" have a serious problem. When those same children view others as no more than "sand niggers" who somehow "deserve" the brutality heaped upon them and are viewed as brave heroes, "We the People" have a problem. When those children return, broken and battered by the insults upon their core values and inegrity, as thin as they may be, and are denied the care they need to return to "civilized society," "We the People" have a VERY SERIOUS problem.

Germany and South Africa have done what America has failed to do. Both nations have CONFRONTED THEIR ACTIONS head-on. That process contributes to the health and healing of a society. America has yet to acknowledge the problem.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. Trail of Tears, Slavery, Genocide, racism... When did America ever have a soul?
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. But there is always the future.. We have got to get to work. Our souls are there
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 02:49 PM by dogindia
and ready. tt is surprisng that avarice and horrid cuelty got so much play.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
50. Bingo! The Original Sins of the US--slavery of Africans, and genocide of Indians.
We got some 'splaining to do....

Not to mention just a bit of atonement.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. Well, James Brown did die.
but rest asure, his music lives on, so the soul isn't really gone.
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k_jerome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. funny. nt.
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. The differences between now and then...

Firstly, I believe that you and your wife are right...mostly,

There will always be bloodthirsty fekkers running around with their desire to see others suffer. There always have been. The trick is not to entertain their views on television or radio or let them into public office. That's the sick thing: the media embraces titilation and conflict. They thrive on it.

When Kennedy was assasinated I'm pretty sure that some sick Americans were happier than pigs in shit that it had happened. There have also been several instances in our history where America has had no soul.

The A-bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Japanese internment.

Viet Nam.

US treatment of Central and South America: AKA Support of dictatorships. Example: Cuba.

US (CIA) overthrowing other governments: Iran, Chile.

Slavery/segregation.

Thefting the American indians of their lands.



You name it, and the US has most likely done it.
When it was happpening to the US it was called opression. When the US does it to others it is called spreading democracy.


Whatever your opinion I certainly hope that America finds its soul again.
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Mikey929 Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
32. With all due respect, your wife is wrong
Sorry, I refuse to believe that America has lost its soul. That is a negative, defeatist attitude that I do not share. Have our current leaders and mass media lost their way. Of course. Do we spend more time watching American Idol that watching the news? Damn straight. But America -- as an ideal, as a nation -- has not lost its soul. I prefer to champion what is good about America and fight to change things that need changing. I am not ready to throw in the towel. A power-hungry administration and a greedy media does not make the entire country soulless.

I love America and would not want to live anywhere else.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Oh we still have SOUL alright!
The past November showed that America's soul still resonates strong. Yes, with BushCo leading this tragic and criminal war of aggression, I believe many of the folks that voted him into power realize the err of their ways.

For the sake of my two kids future, I also chose to focus on the light rather then the dark. On January 4th, our new DEM controlled Congress will convene and with it the mandates and wishes of the voting public. I chose to be optimistic and recognize that though America's soul may have wandered under chimp's egomaniac rule - we are TAKING IT BACK! :)

Things are on the improve and after last November, I felt a great sigh of relief that my children have a chance to grow up in a more sane and civilized USA.
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Mikey929 Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. !!
Right on brother (or sister).

Let's think about the good things in America, and not credit Bush and Cheney with representing the soul of America
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
34. I've really felt that this holiday season. Corporate America killed America
Bill O'Leilly likes to claim that liberals killed Christmas.. no Corporations killed it. I've talked to so many people that said this holiday season was crap... the pressure to buy, buy, buy, the incessent pressure to define the holidays and life by what you can buy. Our digital age has killed America, too. People are spending less time with actual people, preferring TV, computer, or digital entertainment, to real interaction. I was shocked at how many people I've talked to recently that were complaining that they didn't want to go to any parties this year, didn't want to get dressed up and go anywhere, or do anything execpt with their immediate families.

We're losing touch with each other. America's music scene has been corporatized to death, radio is trashed and ridiculous. People buy digitized copies of an artist's work, printed in China, and think they're supporting artists. Our food is starting to come from anywhere but America, our meat and produce are being imported.

The collective America is not collective anymore. It's a bunch of people living on the same continent. There are stories of great community efforts, grassroots efforts, indie arts, etc., but does it strike you as sad that it's newsworthy now when people do what used to be the norm? While most are quick to argue when the idea of a return to simpler times is bounced around... I do long for a time when people dressed up for dinner, had manners, knew their neighbors, and had some civility.

We've lost our soul, and our civility. We need a leader to bring us together again... Clinton was good at that, at inspiring that. Who will it be next? Edwards? Gore? Or has the hateful discourse, the corporate control, and filthy politics, taken us over the edge?

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Mikey929 Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Johnny Rotten
I'm paraphrasing, but as Johnny Rotten once said in response to a complaint by a rock star that he was being hounded by the press, "If you want to stop being famous, just stop being famous." In other words, don't do what makes you famous and people will leave you alone.

If you don't want corporate X-mas, then don't buy all the shit. Turn the t.v. off, the computer off, and go read a book. Drink some good wine, play cards with your kids, make love to your wife (or person of choosing), cook a good meal, work on that novel you've been wanting to write. Don't blame corporations for selling things any more than you would blame a scorpion for stinging you; it's their nature. But you can opt out.

Live the life you want to live!!

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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
38. People used to take their kids to watch hangings until we stopped having them in public
Nothing's changed. I have an Eastern European friend who lived in Yemen as a kid, and her geologist father took her to see a man's hands be cut off when she was four years old. Violence is a human condition, and as much as we might think we've banished it to some dark cave, we haven't.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 12:30 PM
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40. AMERICA LOST ITS SOUL THE MOMENT IT ACCEPTED RONALD REAGAN AS PRESIDENT
26 years and counting. Time to wake up, America.

http://www.thomhartmann.com
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:13 PM
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55. america never had a soul. it's just had fairey tales it's believed in
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