It's not time to give up on America yet

[Quixote1818]

I have noticed a number of threads where people are talking about moving to another country. I am sorry but we are not at the point of giving up yet and I don't buy the argument that it's because some of you are worried about your kids. The US is still a good place to live even though it's headed in the wrong direction and some of what is going on is alarming.

I was once in an Collage organization that was overtaken by a bunch of cocky jerks. I got so disgusted I decided to let the leadership know I was leaving. At this time one of the members piped up and said:

"Thats why you should stay! Because we need you to bring sanity back to this organization."

I was struck by his words and decided to stay. I spoke up at the next meeting about how I almost left and why I decided to stay. Several of the other older members backed me up and everyone aired out a lot of crap! Several members apologized and promised to change. After everything was said and done a hand full of us had moved things back to normal.

I will NEVER give up on this Country unless my kids are in danger. What if people like Emerson, Mark Twain and others had given up because they didn't agree with Slavery? What if MLK and other civil rights leaders had left because they disagreed with the laws of this country? We have seen much worse times and because of brave, inspirational people we made it through those times and the Country became a better place. Right now Bush has the support of only about 3.5 people out of ten. The country is hardly Right wing. It needs a lot of reform and a lot of people need to go to jail and laws need to be changed to hold Corporations in check. Of course we need to work harder than ever on election reform and to try to expose the corruption that is going on. A lot needs to be done but thats why we are all here on DU, because we care about our country and it's citizens.

When Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and the other founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence they put their necks on the line. If we had lost the war they would have all been killed. They put truth and liberty over safety for us. These Men gave us founding documents that insured us freedom, not just freedom to pursue happiness but freedom to be an individual and to worship or not worship, speak up or not speak up. They gave us a free mind! I will NEVER forget what they did for me and how they put their lives on the line for something they believed in. They did these things for all of us!

Our founding documents are pure and good and that is what this country is all about, not the nut-cases who are trying to take away our freedoms. We must all stay and fight for the founders who gave us freedom and liberty and the documents they put in place to protect us. Not just for them but for all future Americans and because the world needs America to be pure and strong. If America goes then many around the world will be hurt. This is an important fight.

Perhaps their may come a time when our children are in danger and then it will be time for you to leave but as for me, I plan on staying and fighting until the end. I owe it to those who gave me my freedom to protect what this country really stands for.

[NC_Nurse]

1. I agree.

Even though I sometimes get discouraged, you are right. We need to keep up the good fight. There have been plenty of dark times in this country and without brave, outspoken critics, we wouldn't be here today.

Nice post, thanks!

[Toucano]

2. First question: What does "...this country really stand for?"

:shrug:

[Quixote1818]

3. Our Founding Documents Guarantee Us A Free Mind

To me that is worth fighting for.


"No man be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor ... otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief ... All men be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and ... the same in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
-- Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers


"The University will be based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind for here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it." Thomas Jefferson on the founding of the University of Virginia

Nothing...is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man.
Thomas Jefferson

"This I believe:
That the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world.
And this I would fight for:
The freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected.
And this I must fight against:
Any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual."
John Steinbeck

[Orsino]

4. The b-------ds will not go quietly, I fear.

Therefore, I will.

If I thought there were a reasonable chance of restoring sanity without fighting, I might be more incline to stay and, well, fight. Or risk actual fighting. I'm afraid, though, that our little experiment in representational plutocracy can only end in violence, and so have elected to leave before Madame Guillotine sings again.

I've hoped for a turnaround, but our heroes were too few in number this week, and I believe that this is how every important political battle will turn out for the foreseeable future: well-meaning but token resistance, followed by the forces of evil doing whatever they hell they want. Even the downfall of the * Administration, which seems likely to me, will only be a temporary slowing of the mad rush oer the cliff. The robber barons are back, and this time there are no checks on their power.

Sorry to be a downer. Y'all are still welcome to my votes until I abandon US citizenship.

[Quixote1818]

5. Well, you are free to do as you wish

And while I disagree with you, freedom to leave the US is your right and I will respect what ever decision you make.

The Right wing and the powerful may fuck things up for a while but they can only go so far before the people will rise up and bring things back where they belong. Hopefully then we can install laws that limit the power of Corporations and people with power and money.

[Orsino]

6. I'm crossing my fingers for that...

...and taking more concrete action, as well, for as long as I'm here.

One other factor to consider is the likelihood that an individual's actions could have a more positive effect in a more democratic country (and I think we know which one I mean), even if the need isn't as urgent there. Besides fearing for the safety of my family, I want my taxes to go toward building a more beautiful nation. And fewer bombs. And fewer thumbscrews.

The "yet" at the beginning of this thread tacitly acknowledges that there is a time to go. I bless the brave souls who at least say that they'll stay and fight to the bitter end. But is it necessarily best or most noble to wait until one is being hunted? I dunno. Most of us fall in the middle--we don't want to leave, but when martial law is declared, when the camps are opened, many will wish that they had.

I hate the thought of leaving Omelas, but the thought of what I'm supporting is becoming too much to bear. I wouldn't dream of discouraging those who really are willing to fight until their doors are kicked in--bless 'em--but perhaps I can help by taking in some refugees someday.

[Cookie wookie]

7. In that case, please leave a forwarding address!

We're going to need it.

[LisaLynne]

8. After * was selected the first time ...

I thought about leaving. And then again in 04, but then I realized that I wasn't going to make it that easy for them. I'm here to fight for the people who can't leave and for this country. I don't think it's too late to turn it around! I agree -- I'm not giing up yet!