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| Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) |
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LTR
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:40 AM Original message |
| Paul Sanford, first to ask McClellan about Plame/treason link, commits suicide |
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In what police describe as a "probable" suicide leap, a prominent Monterey Bay Area attorney fell at least nine floors to his death at the Embassy Suites Hotel Monterey Bay in Seaside the morning before Christmas.
(snip) Almost immediately, he caused a stir after he joined the White House Press Corps in 2005, making waves as the first reporter to ask then-White House press secretary Scott McClellan whether the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame's name might be considered an act of treason. "There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove," Sanford asked. "The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?" McClellan was apparently flustered by the question and replied that "those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide." The White House incident sparked controversy after Beltway bloggers incorrectly described Sanford as a reporter for the Air America radio network. At the time, he was associated with Watsonville radio station KOMY, an Air America affiliate, and Sanford told reporters he never claimed to work for Air America. (more) http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/1... |
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Replies to this thread |
| displacedtexan
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:41 AM Response to Original message |
| 1. File this under: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm |
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| HeeBGBz
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:37 PM Response to Reply #1 |
| 91. Hmmmm, indeed |
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Sounds mighty fishy to me.
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| Name removed
(0 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
| 2. Deleted message |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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| LTR
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:50 AM Response to Reply #2 |
| 9. What are you saying? |
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Think the chimp is going 'Putin' on his enemies?
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baldguy
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
| 3. Another James Hatfield? |
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| babylonsister
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:45 AM Response to Original message |
| 4. Recently bought a new house and opened a law office? |
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From the article:
Friends and associates expressed disbelief at the news of Sanford's death and that it was ruled a suicide, saying Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. Mills said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing. I agree; very suspicious. |
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| Philosoraptor
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:45 AM Response to Original message |
| 5. hhhhhhhmmmmmm |
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| durrrty libby
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:46 AM Response to Original message |
| 6. Geez..the world goes crazy around the holidays. How Sad |
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| Little Star
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:48 AM Response to Original message |
| 7. After reading the whole article..... |
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Something is not right. Hummmmmm
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| no_hypocrisy
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
| 8. In law, there is the presumption against suicide when there is a |
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death to be investigated. I'd like more details where it was conclusively determined that his death was without a third party.
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| KoKo
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:27 AM Response to Reply #8 |
| 10. "hotel housekeepers saw him pacing the hallway of upper floor..... |
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"Police said that before Sanford fell, hotel housekeepers saw him pacing the hallway of an upper floor. Cercone said Sanford's car was parked next to the hotel, and he was not checked in as a guest." |
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| Sperk
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
| 11. small plane crashes, falling out windows, slit wrists in woods, slit |
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wrists in bathtubs, shot in head in car, cars that catch on fire.....A LOT of suicides since * came into power. Anyone keeping a lists?
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| guruoo
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:02 PM Response to Reply #11 |
| 21. I'd like to see that list |
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| KansDem
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:39 PM Response to Reply #11 |
| 93. Here is such a list--the "Bush Body Count" |
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Actually...two lists:
Bush Body Count I also Bush Body Count II There's also "BushBodyCount.com" but I couldn't bring that site up. Hope these sites help in your quest to quench your thirst for knowledge! |
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| Doctor_J
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 10:59 AM Response to Reply #93 |
| 153. A lot of the BFEE's enemies end up committing suicide |
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what a coincidence
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| PADemD
(743 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:37 AM Response to Original message |
| 12. Wasn't there also |
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a man who jumped off the roof of a State Department building while his wife was waiting in her car to pick him up?
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| seafan
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:32 PM Response to Reply #12 |
| 35. John Kokal. |
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From Kos:
Mystery surrounds State Department death Fri Nov 21, 2003 at 09:37:48 PM PST November 20, 2003 (FTW), WASHINGTON -- In a case eerily reminiscent of the death of British Ministry of Defense bio-weapons expert, Dr. David Kelly, an official of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research Near East and South Asian division (INR/NESA), John J. Kokal, 58, was found dead in the late afternoon of November 7. Police indicated he may have jumped from the roof of the State Department. Kokal's body was found at the bottom of a 20 foot window well, 8 floors below the roof of the State Department headquarters near the 23rd and D Street location. Kokal's death was briefly mentioned in a FOX News website story on November 8 but has been virtually overlooked by the major media. Interestingly, the FOX report states that State Department officials confirmed Kokal's death to The Washington Post yet the Post - according to an archive search - has published nothing at all about Kokal's death. Kokal's INR bureau was at the forefront of confronting claims that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. Washington police have not ruled out homicide as the cause of his death. Kokal was not wearing either a jacket or shoes when his body was found. He lived in Arlington, Virginia. |
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| seafan
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:28 PM Response to Reply #35 |
| 122. 5 days after Kokal's death, Gus Weiss, former WH adviser, also died in a mysterious fall. |
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Gus W. Weiss, 72; White House Adviser
Sunday, December 7, 2003; Page C12 Gus W. Weiss, 72, a former White House policy adviser on technology, intelligence and economic affairs, died Nov. 25 of a fall from the Watergate East residential building in the District. The D.C. medical examiner ruled his death a suicide. A spokesman for the D.C. police said that officers found his body at a service entrance to the apartment cooperative. Dr. Weiss lived in the building. snip He served on the staff of the National Security Council under Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan. In the Ford administration, he was also executive director of the White House Council on International Economic Policy. Much of his government work centered on national security, intelligence organizations and concerns over technology transfers to communist countries. As an adviser to the Central Intelligence Agency, he served on the Pentagon's Defense Science Board and the Signals Intelligence Committee of the U.S. Intelligence Board. During the Carter administration, Dr. Weiss was assistant for space policy to the secretary of defense. Apparently, Dr. Weiss was also very opposed to the Iraq invasion. The suspicious fatal fall from the Watergate complex of ex-CIA and NSC official Dr. Gus Weiss a few weeks after Kokal's similar death at the nearby State Department also merits investigation. Weiss, like Kokal, was adamantly opposed to the Iraq war and Weiss, uncharacteristically, went public with his protests. Weiss worked in the office of Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson in the 1970s, along with Iraqi war architects Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. He also served on the U.S. Intelligence Board under President Jimmy Carter and was considered a hawk during the Carter and Reagan administrations. However, in later years, Weiss broke ranks with his old neoconservative colleagues and came out against the Iraq misadventure. INR and other State Department officials reported that a "chill" set in at the State Department following Kokal's defenestration. A number of employees were afraid to talk about the suspicious death. |
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| Morgana LaFey
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:33 PM Response to Reply #12 |
| 88. and how about the reporter (NYT??) who jumped out of some |
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upper floor windows (at the Times), without his shoes on -- financial reporter who had been covering Enron.
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| eowyn_of_rohan
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 09:41 AM Response to Reply #88 |
| 151. reporter, Allan Myerson |
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ENRON: Accidental Death of a Journalist
22 Aug 2002 ...The body of Allan Myerson, a journalist investigating relationships between the USA administration and the Enron scandal, was found thrown out of a window of the New York Times where he was weekend section editor. He was found today on the rooftop of a building underneath, according to foreign sources but no headline reporting the news has yet appeared in international mainstream press. The police are reported to say it may be suicide, but according to close observers the investigations about senior administration involvement in the Enron scandals are becoming increasingly uncomfortable for key officials. http://www.content-wire.com/Media/Media.cfm?ccs=129&cs=... Hardly any other references to this story... |
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| Morgana LaFey
(1000+ posts)
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Fri Dec-29-06 12:00 AM Response to Reply #151 |
| 228. Thank you |
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Hardly any other references to this story...
Not right, is it? |
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| eowyn_of_rohan
(1000+ posts)
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Fri Dec-29-06 12:00 PM Response to Reply #228 |
| 235. No, it is pretty creepy...nt |
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| leftofthedial
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:49 AM Response to Original message |
| 13. the bush M.O. |
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*screams* out of this story
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| LTR
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:50 AM Response to Original message |
| 14. I posted an article about it on my blog |
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http://ltradio.blogspot.com/2006/12/monterey-ca-attorne...
Has some background into his career. He was very active in First Amendment issues, and also hosted radio shows on a couple local progressive talk stations. |
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| Gregorian
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 11:31 AM Response to Original message |
| 15. Don't mess with a Bush. Don't slow down the machine. And remember... |
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They always make it look like suicide.
In 1990 the FBI planted a bomb, in an assassination attempt on the lives of two people who were protesting the cutting of old growth trees. TREES! Not even a war protest. And when it didn't kill it's intended victims, they claimed it was planted by the victims themselves. But recently, they were sued, and actually lost the case. It's the story of Darryl Cherney and Judi Bari. Basically, a group of jurors got an eyeful of FBI, and did not like what they were seeing. http://www.judibari.org/ |
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| roody
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
| 16. very suspicious |
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| Tuesday_Morning
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 01:29 PM Response to Original message |
| 17. This Paul Sanford? |
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Paul Sanford is director of FEC Watch, a project of the Center for Responsive Politics. He also serves as the Center’s general counsel. Sanford came to the Center in November of 2001 after 10 years as a staff attorney in the Office of General Counsel at the Federal Election Commission. During his time at the FEC, he worked on policy issues in many areas of campaign finance law, including soft money, the use of the Internet for campaign activity, personal use of campaign funds and election-related activity by nonprofit corporations.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:FKaVO_CYAXgJ:www.w... |
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| LTR
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 01:38 PM Response to Reply #17 |
| 20. Not sure |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 01:38 PM by Fighting Irish
I ran across that page when I was doing a little research this morning.
The Paul Sanford in Santa Cruz did a radio show that was heavy on election coverage. Not sure if it's the same guy, though, but it looks like it. |
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| John Q. Citizen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:38 PM Response to Reply #17 |
| 73. This Paul Sanford: |
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PAUL SANFORD
B.A. 1979 Connecticut College, New London J.D. 1983 Monterey College of Law Private Practice, Aptos http://www.montereylaw.edu/sub/index.jsp?contentid=IJMD... Paul Sanford is a lawyer and senior citizens advocate from Aptos, California. Paul and Craig are both originally from Wellesley, Massachusetts, and have been friends since elementary school. Paul is one of the few runners who wasn't running at all when the phone call came, but he has been training aggressively and promises to be ready to go when the bell rings. Paul has run three marathons and will be 45 at the time of the relay. http://www.runamerica.org/2002/team.htm |
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| Straight Shooter
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
| 18. Sudden suicides do occur, but for the time being, I'm suspicious. |
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I'll wait for friends and family to collect their thoughts and speak about this. Right now I'm sure everyone is in shock.
Since he was an attorney, I'm 99.99 percent certain he got his papers in order if he was contemplating suicide. It's bizarre to have plans in motion and then do a 180-degree turn. There are also personality/psychological traits that "jumpers" tend to have in common. I wonder if Sanford had those traits. (See Geo Stone's book, Suicide and Assisted Suicide for more info.) |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 01:35 PM Response to Original message |
| 19. I Can Smell The Tin Foil Hat Wearers Running In Here From A Mile Away LOL |
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No, BFEE did not do this, to any who are gonna claim they did.
Regardless, my thoughts and prayers go out to his family. Very sad news. |
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:06 PM Response to Reply #19 |
| 22. Not as fast as defenders of the Bush Crime Family. |
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Why are you so certain you know what happened, let alone know that the "BFEE did not do this"?
Here are a few people who actually had the guts to investigate the Bush Family Evil Empire, rather than ridicule those who do: Gary Webb hurt the BFEE’s feelings by tying the CIA's Iran-Contra gang to the crack cocaine epidemic in America's major metropolitan areas. To the Bush gang, telling the truth made Webb an enemy. Daniel “Danny” Casolaro — Researched BCCI and the Inslaw/PROMIS Affair, found that George HW Bush had ties going around the world and back through Iran-Contra, Iraq-gate, the October Surprise, Watergate, Vietnam, the Bay of Pigs and Dallas. A “suicide.” Abbie Hoffman — Yippie of the 60s turned into an investigative reporter in the 80s, researched and wrote about “October Surprise” allegations involving George HW Bush, Bill Casey and Robert Gates doing a deal with the Ayatollah Khomeini to delay the release of the USA’s Iran embassy hostages in 1980. The pretty good overview appeared in Playboy in 1992. A “suicide.” Steve Kangas — Researcher and writer who started “Liberal Resurgent” web site dedicated to naming names like Richard Mellon Scaife and telling the truth about what was happening to America. Wrote the seminal “The Origins of the Overclass” which detailed the role of the CIA in preserving the privileged positions of the nation’s wealthiest individuals and corporations. A “suicide.” Jim Hatfield — Researcher and writer who penned “Fortunate Son,” an unauthorized biography of George W Bush that included allegations of cocaine use, planted by Karl Rove, who knew that Hatfield, an ex-con would be discredited. The last thing Hatfield wrote “Why Would Osama Want to Kill His Ex-Business Partner?” that detailed bin Laden threatening to crash a plane loaded with explosives into the G-8 summit in Genoa Italy in July 2001. Bush slept offshore aboard a US warship and the meeting was guarded by SAMs. A “suicide.” Mark Lombardi — Artist and researcher who developed “Global Networks” or “Social Network Diagrams” which illustrated and chronicled the relationships between many of our day’s shadiest characters, institutions and treasons. One of his works graphically charted Osama bin Laden, Sheik Salim bin Laden, James R Bath, Texas Gov George W Bush and HARKEN Energy. A “suicide.” Cliff Baxter — was the Number Two guy at ENRON. An Air Force Academy graduate, Baxter had told friends he was going to cooperate with investigators. Guess that would’ve really hurt Ken Lay, huh? Well, he would’ve really hurt someone else even more: George Walker Bush and George Herbert Walker Bush. After he passed out from an overdose, a “suicide” by gunshot. There are more. Good luck to those interested in finding out the truth regarding the Bushes and their cronies. |
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| Jax
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:13 PM Response to Reply #22 |
| 23. Octafish YOU ROCK!!!! |
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| lies and propaganda
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:15 PM Response to Reply #22 |
| 24. I highly doubt I need to tell you how awesome you are ;) |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:18 PM Response to Reply #22 |
| 25. "Why are you so certain you know what happened" |
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It's called common sense, sanity, logical deduction and reasoning.
I always laugh so heartily at how any time anything happens to anyone it was part of some big conspiracy. It's so silly and cliche.  |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:23 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 28. I laugh at the people who think everything is a happy coincidence. |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 02:37 PM by Dr Fate
So silly & cliche. So "safe" and "moderate" to assume that a man who would lie us into a war is not capable of offing an enemy or two.
 I'm glad your "common sense, sanity, logical deduction and reasoning" has told you there is no possible, conceivable motivation for silencing reporters who investigate Bush. |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:25 PM Response to Reply #28 |
| 30. Coincidence Of What? ROFLMAO!!!! What's Related? There Is No Coincidence. |
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It is just simply something that happened.
To be a coincidence, there would have to be something he did in the last few weeks that made him worthy of conspiracy murder by the BFEE. Can you tell me what that was? What happened in the last few weeks that would make this a coincidence? Please, indulge me. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:30 PM Response to Reply #30 |
| 33. Why does the supposed motivation for his possible murder have to stem from the last few weeks? |
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???
Besides- you are the one who seems to be arguing that it is a mere coincidence that a reporter who was investigating the Plame crime falls out of a window- not me- I never said it had to be coincidence. |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:40 PM Response to Reply #33 |
| 39. You're Calling It Coincidence, Not Me. |
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You are implying that if you don't buy into the insane and irrational conspiracy theory, then you are buying into the fact it was a coincidence.
I'm saying that's absurd, because in order for there to be a coincidence there has to be something as of recent to tie in together. Guess what, there isn't. There is no coincidence here nor conspiracy. It's a guy who jumped out a window. But feel free to claim as much silliness as you'd like. I'll leave this thread to its preposterous tin foil theories now.  |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:43 PM Response to Reply #39 |
| 40. Or-Maybe he "fell" out of the window- maybe it was an "accident." |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 02:54 PM by Dr Fate
Why is everything a "suicide" right off the bat with you wacky coincidence theorists? People do have accidents or even get murdered every now & then, ya know.
And if it was an accident, it would be a coincidence that an anti-Bush reporter who, coincidently has been investigating the Plame crime- had a deadly accident- certainly not a conspiracy on the part of the Admin- that would be an outrageous thing to even merely consider. |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:24 PM Response to Reply #40 |
| 66. Never Said It Couldn't Be Murder. I Said It Is INSANE To Think It Was A Conspiracy Of The BFEE. |
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HUGE difference there, buddy.
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:16 PM Response to Reply #66 |
| 78. Yes- it is "INSANE" to think Bushco is capable of violence. |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 06:18 PM by Dr Fate
Nuts I tells ya- raving mad NUTS!!!!!!!
A group with a record of revenge (The Plame outing itself is an example) who would lie us into a war would never, EVER do such a thing- wouldnt be Christian. And all the other coincidental suicides of would-be whistle blowers mentioned on this thread are NOT murders either- they are to be taken together as one big, happy coincidence. It's logic you see. I must be out of my mind for even considering it for one second. |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:27 PM Response to Reply #78 |
| 82. In This Specific Case? Absolutely. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:37 PM Response to Reply #82 |
| 92. Fine- I was called a nut & conspiracy theorist when I said Bush was lying about WMDs too. |
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Didnt bother me then, doesnt bother me now.
What seems insane to me is to give Bush the initial benefit of the doubt concerning pretty much anything. I assume the worse and work from there. I would not be suprised at all if you are 100% correct- I just do not agree with your attitude that anyone who didnt believe this was a suicide or believed it is *possible* that it is a politically motiviated murder is somehow insane or not using common sense. I reject that notion 100%- but you could be right that this was really a coincidence apart from all the other deaths listed on this thread. |
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| Stephanie
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 12:18 AM Response to Reply #78 |
| 132. Speaking of which, where is the anthrax murderer? |
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It's so strange he's never been caught...
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| tom_paine
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:35 AM Response to Reply #132 |
| 141. Not strange at all. Like OJ and his search for the Real Killers |
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Somebody else said it better than I ever could:
Petty criminals dream of committing the perfect crime in which they leave no clues. State crminals dream of controlling the crime scene, so they can disappear any evidence and tie up any loose ends. What we have in the Bush Imperial Family,is the apotheosis of the state criminal. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:24 PM Response to Reply #132 |
| 164. Noooo- not "strange" at all- it's just another happy coincidence. n/t |
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n/t
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| fooj
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 02:31 AM Response to Reply #66 |
| 146. FYI... |
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I live in Santa Cruz County and there has been NO reporting of his death in the local news. None. Zip. We've watched KSBW 8 every night since Christmas and this is the first that I've heard this. Hmmmmmm...
A local attorney jumps to his death at the ONLY Embassy Suites Hotel on the Central Coast and not a peep on the nightly news... |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:43 PM Response to Reply #146 |
| 168. That is merely yet another coincidence in a long line of coincidences. |
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None of the suicides, falls, accidents, etc that you read about on this thread should be connected in any way what-so-ever.
The fact that the media gave none of these many deaths the same coverage as they did- say Vince Foster, is also just a big, happy coincidence. |
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| John Q. Citizen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 03:14 PM Response to Reply #30 |
| 46. I think this death sounds very suspicious. It doesn't mean |
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the bush crime family was involved, yet the skimpy details in the story don't add up to suicide either.
Or do you think the details add up to suicide? I think somebody killed him. Who? I couldn't say. But his friend seems to rule out suicide as a reasonable explaination. This story will be worth watching. |
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| thingfisher
(445 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 04:55 PM Response to Reply #46 |
| 57. That is the point of suiciding people. |
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It is difficult to "prove" that it wasn't when it apparently was. Even when a Gary Webb shoots himself in the head two times, it was ruled a suicide. Uncertainty is the great ally of conspiracies.
I can't say for certain that this must have been a suicide, but I can place it along side other similar cases and take note of a certain mO which raises suspicion. |
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| Name removed
(0 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:01 PM Response to Reply #30 |
| 59. Deleted message |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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| lumpy
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 07:04 PM Response to Reply #30 |
| 98. "It is just simply something that happened", |
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you say. Suicide is something that just doesn't 'simply'happen. There has to be a reason.
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| Ghost in the Machine
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 07:30 PM Response to Reply #30 |
| 102. "To be a coincidence, there would have to be something he did in the last few weeks |
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that made him worthy of conspiracy murder by the BFEE. Can you tell me what that was? What happened in the last few weeks that would make this a coincidence? Please, indulge me".
While I can usually agree with you on many things, I'll have to disagree with tis assessment. Vengeance is a dish that is best served cold... and the longer it brews the colder it gets. Stupid people act quickly.. the smart ones know to "just give it time, let things die down and blow over until everyone else forgets about it, then do something about it". Been there and done that myself. How many times have you heard, or even uttered, the phrase: "I'll pay you back for this.. might not be today, might not be next week... 20 years from now, you might walk around a corner and some old bastard's gonna knock you in the head with a cane"? .... Anyways, the only point I was making is that IF there was foul play, it wouldn't necessarily have to be something from the past couple of weeks. PEACE! Ghost |
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| blm
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 04:15 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 51. I don't think coincidence theorists are funny at all - they're dangerous for democracy |
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because they are so UNCURIOUS about EVERY suicide that benefits the Bush family in some measurable way.
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| robertpaulsen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 54. Common sense requires reading the frickin' article. |
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Here's a snip that, if you do indeed possess an open mind, might cast some doubt on your open and shut suicide:
Friends and associates expressed disbelief at the news of Sanford's death and that it was ruled a suicide, saying Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. Mills said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing. snip "I just don't know what happened since Thursday. There was nothing on the horizon there to know this was going to happen," Mills said. "We were going to get together this week." Mills said he had spoken to Sanford's wife, Paula, and that she also was in shock. He said Sanford, a father of two, was a devoted family man. "This is a horrible thing for his family. He would never have intentionally put his family through that trauma. Something's not right, it doesn't make sense." Proof of a conspiracy? Of course not. But please spare us your condescending claim that you came to your conclusion through logical deduction and reasoning. Your dismissive patronizing demeans the confusion and doubts of the friends and family who knew him better than you or I. That alone should be enough to make any reasonable person question the official story. |
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| Name removed
(0 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:04 PM Response to Reply #54 |
| 61. Deleted sub-thread |
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Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:07 PM Response to Reply #54 |
| 64. ROFLMAO!!!!!!! So Family Saying They Don't Believe He'd Do It Equates To The BFEE Murdering Him? |
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And that deduction is a common sense one in your opinion? Oh, ok, my bad. |
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| robertpaulsen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:29 PM Response to Reply #64 |
| 68. ROFLMAO TOO! So creating a strawman is your idea of a rebuttal? |
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Great comeback! Would you like me to stop beating my wife? |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:40 PM Response to Reply #68 |
| 74. Ummmm, Have You Not Been Following The Conversation? Please Cite Such A Strawman Please. |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 05:42 PM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
You won't find one.
My argument has been that it is absurd to rule this as a huge conspiracy on behalf of the BFEE, period. To say that my premise of that above sentiment being common sense is wrong, because the family questions the suicide, is totally ridiculous. Unless you can point me where in any article the family offers such whacked out conspiracy theory, than my argument is sound. So your entire reply above is without merit and is completely illogical. |
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| robertpaulsen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 06:36 PM Response to Reply #74 |
| 90. Oh, I'm following the conversation all right. |
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Please cite where I stated that the family saying they don't believe he'd do it equates to the BFEE murdering him. You won't find it.
In fact, on post 54, I specifically stated in regard to the doubts of family and friends: "Proof of a conspiracy? Of course not." How is it that you missed this? Are you following the conversation? |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 07:25 PM Response to Reply #90 |
| 100. Pay Attention. |
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You and others have applied numerous times now that my argument was that it would be insane to think anything suspicious may have occurred. I never stated that. I don't believe there was anything suspicious, but I haven't declared there to be absolutely no chance there was.
The only thing I declared was that if there does turn out to be any foul play, it would have nothing to do with an insanely irrational theory that the BFEE was behind it. That is all. Bye now. |
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| robertpaulsen
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 08:32 PM Response to Reply #100 |
| 115. Attention is paid. |
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Thanks for clarifying your argument, but in doing so, you've exposed a flaw in your logic. If you are admitting that there is a POSSIBILITY that he was murdered, you cannot logically exclude the BFEE from the list of suspects. I won't argue with you how far up or down the list they should be considered, only that it is illogical to dismiss or underestimate the BFEE where murder is concerned.
That's all for me too. I understand your belief in the improbability of BFEE involvement. All I'm asking is for is a little respect for those who are exploring the possibility of it. It might not be likely, but given their track record in general, and their motive in this case specifically, it's not illogical. |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 09:08 PM Response to Reply #115 |
| 120. "POSSIBILITY that he was murdered, you cannot logically exclude the BFEE " |
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ROFLMAO!!!!
Oh you bet I can. |
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| chefgirl
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:15 AM Response to Reply #120 |
| 140. HOW? |
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You can logically exclude the BFEE? How?
-chef- |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 02:05 AM Response to Reply #140 |
| 143. By Common Sense Reasoning, Logical Deduction, Non-Delusional Thoughts, And Critical Thinking. |
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To give credence for a moment that because some unknown guy asked a provocative question at a presser a year and half ago the BFEE had him killed now, would be an incredible violation of my personal pride in my objective, critical, logical and intellectual reasoning capabilities and would cause me to cringe mercilessly at myself upon reflecting on such momentary delusion.
Tell me, without saying "I don't put anything past them blah blah", does it REALLY make sense to you for even a smidgen of a second that the BFEE would take the risks and effort of offing some unknown guy who no one cares about and is currently not connected to them in any shape or form whatsoever, just because a year and a half ago he asked a semi provocative question that has long been forgotten? You HONESTLY think that makes sense, sounds rational and is not of a delusional thought process for even a second? I certainly don't. It is a completely illogical theory with no merit whatsoever in my opinion. |
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| chefgirl
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 12:52 PM Response to Reply #143 |
| 157. Nice try |
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"an incredible violation of my personal pride in my objective, critical, logical and intellectual reasoning capabilities
If you think for one minute that your "objective,critical,logical and intellectual reasoning capabilities" are anything more than your own inflated OPINION, then nothing I could possibly say to you would make any logical sense anyway. I asked a simple question; "HOW?" How can you logically exclude the BFEE? In my OPINION, you have failed miserably in offering a satisfactory answer. How about this question, then. How do you know that this 'unknown guy', who asked a provocative question, hasn't been asking a lot more provocative questions since that one press conference a year and a half ago, which could have led to him meeting with foul play??? Don't bother answering...the answer is, you don't. Remembering that I have NOT taken either side in this debate, my own objective, critical, logical and intellectual reasoning capabilities tell me that anyone who is willing to disregard any possiblity, when considering something as serious as whether or not a person really committed suicide or was murdered, is entering the debate either severely lacking in those same skills OR, (and here's the kicker)is operating with an agenda. I'm afraid you've proven yourself out, as far as I'm concerned. -chef- |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:02 PM Response to Reply #157 |
| 159. How Do You Know That If You Jump Up, You're Gonna Come Down? It's Called Common Sense. |
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I think you are failing to see how completely beyond absurd everyone is looking who is actually putting forth this theory as having any validity whatsoever. I remain shocked at the level of passion some are maintaining in trying to keep this premise alive as if it has any credibility. But if they want to look that foolish, I guess that is their right.
But no, I'm not going to give the preposterous theory a shred of credence for even a second, much like I wouldn't give some wild delusional theory that if I spin around enough times, I can form a wormhole and travel to some distant galaxy any credence either. This 'theory' that the BFEE was behind his death is literally borderline delusional. It is so outside the realm of common sense, logic and rational thinking that I'm embarrassed for those putting it forth. But it is evident that nothing is going to stop them, so what can ya do. Carry on! |
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| petgoat
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 02:31 PM Response to Reply #100 |
| 171. Pay Attention yourself. |
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Your first post stated emphatically "BFEE did not do this."
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 04:47 PM Response to Reply #171 |
| 196. No Shit. I've Repeated It A Gazillion Times. Was There A Point To Your Post Or Did You Just Feel |
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like typing?
 Oh, and as emphatically as I could possibly muster, The BFEE did not do this. |
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| Moochy
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 09:59 PM Response to Reply #196 |
| 218. I've got it! (SARCASM ALERT) |
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Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 10:00 PM by Moochy
OMC did it, in the lobby with a candlestick!
That's the only way you could be so sure that the BFEE did not do it!   |
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| omega minimo
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 12:01 AM Response to Reply #68 |
| 131. Always |  |
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| OPERATIONMINDCRIME
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 12:31 AM Response to Reply #131 |
| 133. Here's A Challenge For Ya, Since You Responded So Definitively: Please Cite The Strawman. Thanks. |
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I'll be awaiting the context from this thread to back up the premise of me presenting a strawman, of which you so wholeheartedly agreed with.
Will you provide it please? It would be greatly appreciated if you could. |
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| mhatrw
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 105. This argument is like a Christian telling off an atheist. |
 |
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 07:51 PM by mhatrw
Sorry, but the sane approach is to remain agnostic about things like this until you gather as many details as possible.
Yes, people commit suicides that seem suspicious. But sometimes these "suicides" are really murder. |
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ooglymoogly
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 06:40 PM Response to Reply #105 |
| 213. roit roit...you clearly have the insight |
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| Jim Sagle
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 07:56 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 108. Pass over that joint. |
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| Moochy
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 10:07 PM Response to Reply #108 |
| 125. Only if You Pass the crack pipe |
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| Ellis Wyatt
(328 posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 01:32 PM Response to Reply #25 |
| 165. I tend to discount most of the conspiracy theories of BFEE |
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I mean sure, he's a scumbag and he's lied and broken some laws, but the mad evil-genius perception of the BFEE in many circles I wildly overblown in my mind.
Not that they don't have immoral motives or anything, but the thought that everything bad that happens anywhere to anyone is somehow the grand master plan of BFEE is a bit laughable. And what really brings it home to me is that we haven't found WMD in Iraq. If the BFEE was going to commit all these tin-foil conspiracies like throwing this dude out the window or planning 9/11 or causing Johnson's stroke or blowing up levees in New Orleans, etc etc etc, they would have found WMD in Iraq. If they have the desire and ability to commit crimes like those that have been suggested under our nose and try and get away with it, they could have EASILY and would have DEFINITELY planted WMD in Iraq, had us found them, and boom, Bush is a hero. And it would have been so easy to plant them, in the middle of a war, across the world. Can you fathom just how differently he'd be perceived if there were actually any WMD in Iraq? And everyone in his administration or extended crime family knew it too. Again, I'm not defending him in the least; I hate him. I just think that it's tough to believe any of these vast conspiracy theories that come up when the easiest conspiracy theory to execute and the conspiracy theory that would benefited the BFEE the most wasn't executed. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 02:42 PM Response to Reply #165 |
| 174. I disagree- it is difficult/impossible to plant WMDs- not so difficult to push a man out a window. |
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I recall that Scott Ritter wrote an interesting essay or article on how it would be nearly impossible to plant WMDs- due to records and international scrutiny.
I think your comparison is invalid. |
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| Ellis Wyatt
(328 posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 03:22 PM Response to Reply #174 |
| 184. fair enough |
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I'd like to see the article.
Seems to me like it would be the easiest thing in the world for this vast BFEE conspiracy to pull off, but I'm obviously not basing it on any fact. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 03:39 PM Response to Reply #184 |
| 188. If it was as easy as you say- it would have been an October Suprise. n/t |
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n/t
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| Ellis Wyatt
(328 posts)
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Fri Dec-29-06 09:25 AM Response to Reply #188 |
| 234. that's my point |
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If this BFEE can orchestrate 9/11 and blow up levees and all the other wild conspiracy theories that are dreamed up, certainly they would be able to plant WMD in Iraq.
There would have been much less chance of getting caught than all of the other conspiracy theories since it was across the world, and not on film, there would have been less chance of getting caught, since there would be less people involved and therefore less people to worry about spilling the beans, and the benefit would have been much greater than anything else his crime family supposedly did. It just makes no logical sense for all these hairbrained conspiracy theories to occur if they didn't pull off the easiest and most beneficial of all. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Fri Dec-29-06 01:49 PM Response to Reply #234 |
| 238. No- first you have to prove how easy it would be to plant WMDs. |
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You have yet to do that. You dont have a point- if it was easy to plant WMDs, they would have done it. According to Ritter, it's impossible to do it under international scrutiny, so they didnt.
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| siligut
(1000+ posts)
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Fri Dec-29-06 12:06 AM Response to Reply #25 |
| 230. You use the rofl guy too much. |
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Just sayin'
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| Taxloss
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:23 PM Response to Reply #22 |
| 29. Google "Arkancide". |
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The other side makes lists as well. They're also wrong.
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 02:55 PM Response to Reply #29 |
| 42. Thanks for reminding me: Kelly & Kokal & Coulbeck |
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Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 03:00 PM by Octafish
No where did I say I knew the answer. All I said was many people who investigate the Bush Transnational Criminal Enterprise -- Bushco, the Bush Family Evil Empire, the Octopus -- end up dead, often by suicide or what appears to be suicide.
Here are two more and a name that escapes me: David Kelly - UK government scientist specialising in WMDs, testified to Parliament that the intel was "sexed up" to make it out that Iraq posed a threat to the UK and the USA. Found suicided in the woods under very weird circumstances. John Kokal - US state department expert on Iraq, stated his best intel indicated Iraq posed no threat to the USA. Found dead in a window well several stories below the State Department roof. Neil Coulbeck - English banker involved in ENRON cover-up. Suicided just before several colleagues were to be extradited for arraignment in the US for their part in the scandal. Happened about a year ago or so. The guy had just agreed to testify in the case when he got a sudden case of the dead. Anyone with the name, I'd be much obliged... You may not remember, but the cross-dressing NAZI J Edgar Hoover used the FBI and its COINTELPRO to encourage one great American to commit suicide, Martin Luther King. Thanks also for bringing up "Arkancide." Very interesting connections to the Bushes there, alleged by Freepers. EDIT: Added Mr. Coulbeck's name. His testimonyh regarded ENRON, not BCCI. |
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| Dr Fate
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 03:01 PM Response to Reply #42 |
| 43. Silly you- those other deaths are also just big, happy coincidences too. You must be a crazy nut. |
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It is crazy and outrageous to consider, even for a second that there was a motive for silencing all those apparently mentally depressed, would-be whistleblowers...
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 03:20 PM Response to Reply #43 |
| 48. When it comes to the BFEE, I'm mad... |
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...mad as HELL and I'm not gonna take it anymore!
 Must remember to wear tin hat at all times, though. It's not for psychic protection, but for physical. Speaking of the odd conspiracy...  Wonder what journalistic plant and Call Man Jeff Gannon is up to these days? |
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| mia
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 05:37 PM Response to Reply #48 |
| 72. Looks like Gannon knows something. |
 |
The way we were
Mem'ries, Light the corners of my mind Misty water-colored memories Of the way we were Scattered pictures, Of the smiles we left behind Smiles we gave to one another For the way we were |
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| blogslut
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 08:25 PM Response to Reply #48 |
| 113. That's not Jeff Gannon |
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This is:
 |
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 03:54 PM Response to Reply #113 |
| 192. Hmm. Someone told me that was Gannon. |
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Thanks for the heads-up, blogslut.
Must I be a lookalike. I understand this is Gannon, too.  |
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| blogslut
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 05:58 PM Response to Reply #192 |
| 209. I have no idea |
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No face.
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 10:48 PM Response to Reply #209 |
| 222. There's the prominent Gannon earlobe. |
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The AP reports that's Gannon in the right photo at a pro-war rally. Guess that makes him Gannon a Bush supporter.
 Still, positive ID requires fingerprints. It would be good to dust the White House and its contents for evidence. Nights in White House Satin The Comings and Goings of Jeff Gannon By GARY LEUPP CounterPunch May 21 / 22, 2005 Why aren't we hearing more about the "Jeff Gannon" (James Guckert) affair? Back in February, always the optimist I wrote, "Perhaps we are on the edge of a major scandal here," and inquiring minds have indeed dug up more dirt. Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY) and Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) got on the case, using the Freedom of Information Act to precisely chronicle, on the basis of Secret Service records, the bogus reporter and real-life prostitute's White House entries and exits. From the Secret Service material, Raw Story researcher Muriel Kane produced this listing; I've put the more interesting material in bold font:
2/26 9:56 - 2:17 (unusually long) (briefing 1:25-1:53) 2/27 11:49 - 1:34 (no briefing) 2/28 11:20 - 1:26 (briefing 12:35-1:10) 3/3/03 9:51 - 1:32 (unusually long) (briefing 12:21-1:00) 3/4 11:48 - 1:45 (briefing 12:46-1:20) 3/5 11:56 - 1:57 (briefing 12:21-1:00) 3/6 11:58 - 12:42 (no briefing) 3/6 9:11 pm exit - no entry (Bush press conference, 8 pm) 3/7 3:22 pm exit -- no entry (briefing 2:20-3:00) 3/10 12:47 - 3:11 (briefing 1:23-2:10) 3/11 12:25 - 1:47 (briefing at 12:38 - no end time given) 3/12 12:55 - 2:40 (briefing 1:20-1:59) 3/13 12:12 - 1:55 (briefing 12:40-1:19) 3/14 12:02 - 1:49 (briefing 12:35-1:06) 3/17 12:01 - 1:30 (no briefing) 3/18 12:09 - 1:31 (briefing 12:21-1:05) 3/19 9:38 - 3:27 (unusually long) (12:15-12:59) (Bush speech, 10 pm) 3/20 12:19 - 1:38 (briefing 12:32-1:15) 3/21 10:52 - 12:31 (briefing 2:31-3:12 doesn't match) 3/24 1:02 - 2:43 (briefing 1:00-1:44) 3/25 1:45 - 3:30 (briefing 2:30-3:15) 3/28 12:34 - 3:51 (unusually long) (briefing 12:35-1:15) 4/4/03 12:18 - 1:31 (12:20-12:59) 4/9 1:48 - 3:48 (2:32-3:20) 4/10 12:14 - 2:00 (12:20-1:03) 4/11 12:24 - 1:52 (12:15-12:45) (arrives late) 4/14 12:34 - 1:46 (12:30-1:15) (arrives late) 4/21 3:33 - 4:19 (no briefing) 4/22 11:36 - 1:37 (12:30-1:14) 4/23 12:16 - 2:26 (1:17-1:55) 4/25 11:21 - 1:25 (12:19-1:00) 4/28 3:01 - 4:40 (11:08-11:23 doesn't match) 4/29 11:25 - 1:10 (12:23-12:58) 4/30 11:37 - 3:14 (unusually long) (12:32-1:19) 5/6/03 11:27 - 12:56 (11:50-12:30) 5/7 11:53 - 1:29 (12:30-1:10) 5/8 1:09 - 7:10 (unusually long) (1:45-2:26) 5/9 9:49 - 11:38 (no briefing) 5/14 12:02 - 1:47 (12:35-1:15) 5/14 5:15 pm - 6:56 pm (second evening visit) 5/15 12:27 - 2:25 (1:08-1:47) 5/16 12:05 - 1:40 (12:35-1:19) 5/20 12:27 - 2:04 (12:55-1:34) 5/27 11:56 - 1:31 (12:23-1:05) 5/28 11:50 - 12:53 (12:05-12:44) 5/28 3:26 - 4:53 (second visit) 5/29 11:42 - 1:43 (12:20-1:00) 6/10/03 12:13 - 1:19 (12:33-1:12) 6/17 12:29 - 1:41 (12:32-1:11) 6/18 12:16 - 1:42 (12:50-1:34) 6/22 3:32 - 4:49 (no briefing) 6/23 1:41 - 2:21 (no briefing) 6/25 12:16 - 1:01 (12:30-12:55) 6/26 11:32 - 12:35 (11:45-12:24) 7/1/03 11:25 - 1:42 (12:50-1:26) 7/2 11:50 - 1:20 (12:35-1:12) 7/3 3:04 - 4:16 (Condi Rice briefing, 3:40-4:10) 7/14 11:33 - 1:32 (Ari's goodbye party) (12:03-12:56) 7/15 12:15 (no exit) (12:38-1:23) 7/16 12:26 - 2:05 (12:50-1:20) 7/17 4:43 - 6:13 (12:36-1:17 doesn't match) 7/22 12:23 - 1:53 (12:58-1:35) 7/23 12:21 - 2:23 (1:17-2:07) 7/25 2:08 - 3:30 (2:39-3:15) 7/27 3:08 - 5:24 (no briefing) 7/28 12:53 - 2:04 (briefing 10:12-10:23 doesn't match) 7/30 12:13 - 12:45 (no briefing) (Bush press conference earlier than that) 8/1/03 12:18 (no exit) (12:24-12:54) 8/1 12:39 - 1:20 (two sets of times if put together seem to match the briefing) 9/2/03 12:37 (A4 HC Entry Lane, no exit) (12:42-1:23) 9/3 12:10 - 1:18 (12:30-1:10) 9/10 12:17 - 1:32 (12:49-1:23) 9/16 12:23 - 1:59 (1:00-1:39) 9/17 12:12 - 1:55 (1:00-1:41) 9/22 1:54 - 3:06 (no briefing) (Bush meets with Iraqis, remarks end 4:35) 9/25 12:49 - 1:53 (12:48-1:35) 9/26 12:09 - 2:24 (12:36-1:15) 9/29 12:09 - 1:10 (12:18-1:03) 10/1/03 11:51 - 1:37 (12:44-1:30) 10/2 11:52 (no exit) (12:47-1:26) 10/6 12:58, 6:10 (no exit; checks in twice but doesn't check out) 10/7 12:46 - 2:03 (12:58-1:46) 10/8 12:10 - 1:27 (12:16-12:42) 10/14 12:22 (no exit) (12:40-1:14) 10/27 12:32 - 1:33 (12:39-1:15) 10/28 10:54 - 12:22 (Bush press conference 11:15-12:03) 10/29 12:20 - 1:08 (12:20-12:57) 11/6/03 12:09 - 1:09 (12:35-1:04) 11/12 12:09 - 1:58 (1:10-1:47) 11/14 12:54 - 2:07 (1:36-2:00) 11/21 5:25 - 6:49 (no briefing) 11/24 8:49 - 9:43 (no briefing) 12/2/03 2:08 - 3:29 (no briefing) 12/3 12:03 - 1:11 (12:32-1:06) 12/7 3:25 (no exit - entry via A4 HC Entry Lane) (no briefing) 12/9 12:33 - 1:45 (12:55-1:21) 12/10 12:05 - 1:23 (12:35-1:15) 12/12 11:51 - 1:35 (12:15-12:52) 12/15 10:45 - 12:42 (Bush press conference 11:15-12:03) 12/18 12:44 - 2:28 (2:05-2:43) 12/19 12:21 - 12:56 (B4 Entry Lane 2) (12:30-12:50) 12/19 1:36 - 2:13 (second visit) 12/22 12:15 - 1:23 (12:28-1:01) 1/14/04 12:30 - 1:33 (12:41-1:15) 1/16 12:08 - 12:48 (12:11-12:44) 1/23 11:52 - 1:12 (12:33-1:06) 1/28 11:53 - 1:26 (12:50-1:20) 1/30 12:30 - 1:23 (12:37-1:09) 2/2/04 12:32 - 1:35 (12:48-1:28) 2/3 12:44 - 1:55 (12:54-1:20) 2/4 11:50 - 1:38 (12:56-1:36) 2/6 11:58 - 1:44 (Bush announcement 1:32-37) 2/10 11:50 - 1:55 (12:53-1:38) 2/11 11:57 - 1:09 (12:30-1:02) 2/13 12:07 - 1:08 (12:30-1:02) 2/18 12:04 - 1:29 (12:36-1:08) 2/19 12:05 - 1:30 (12:37-1:14) 2/20 12:32 - 1:29 (12:33-1:03) 2/23 12:55 - 1:17 (12:43-1:10) (arrives late) 2/24 12:06 - 1:52 (1:00-1:36) 2/27 1:55 - 3:39 (2:18-2:48) 3/1/04 12:50 - 2:04 (1:20-2:00) 3/2 12:29 - 1:23 (12:46-1:14) 3/9 12:40 - 1:49 (1:03-1:37) 3/12 12:54 - 1:00 (unusually short) (no briefing) 3/16 12:43 - 1:52 (1:10-1:46) 3/17 12:18 - 1:56 (1:26-1:50) 3/22 12:03 - 2:10 (1:24-2:04) 3/23 12:03 - 1:34 (12:47-1:10) 3/24 12:17 - 2:03 (1:10-2:02) 3/30 exit only, 12:04 (no briefing) 3/30 4:22 - 4:55 (no briefing) 4/1/04 12:42 - 1:57 (1:25-1:53) 4/13 9:42 - 10:29 (no briefing) (Bush speaks to reporters on the WH lawn) 4/13 6:59 pm - 9:49 pm (Bush press conference) 4/16 10:51 - 3:08 (2:41-3:09) (Bush/Blair press conference) 4/21 12:14 - 1:00 (12:31-1:00) 4/27 12:10 (no exit, entry via A4 HC Entry Lane instead of Entry Lane 2) (12:27- 12:59) 4/28 12:26 - 1:47 (1:20-1:47) 4/29 11:10 no exit (well before briefing) (Bush and Cheney testify to 9/11 commission) 4/29 2:15 - 2:57 (2:23-2:56) 4/30 1:24 - 2:47 (2:22-2:45) 5/5/04 12:02 - 2:25 (1:38-2:16) (arrives unusually early) 5/6 12:01 - 3:35 (12:20-12:54) (stays unusually late) 5/10 1:22 - 2:50 (2:02-2:33) 5/12 11:56 - 1:03 (12:34-12:55) 5/24 no entry, exit logged twice, 2:04:43 and 2:04:51 (1:14-1:46) 5/26 12:09 - 1:51 (1:15-1:51) 5/28 2:17 - no exit (3:02-3:34) 6/1/04 9:20 - 12:03 (Condi Rice briefing, 9:45) 6/3 9:02 - 10:32 (no briefing) 6/14 10:02 - 11:45 (no briefing) 6/15 11:03 - no exit (2:25-2:52) (there well before briefing) 6/15 5:19 - 6:38 (B4 Exit Lane instead of usual A4 Exit Reader) (after briefing) (Bush and Karzai in Press Availability) 6/16 2:50 - 4:34 (no briefing) 6/17 11:57 - 1:25 (12:47-1:20) 6/21 9:27 - 10:03 (no briefing) 6/22 12:13 - 5:04 (unusually long) (Al Gonzales briefing, 3:12-4:55) 6/24 1:27 - 2:13 (Condi Rice briefing, 1:51-2:03) 6/30 12:21 - 1:55 (1:15-1:55) 7/1/04 12:22 - 1:36 (1:01-1:37) 7/2 9:43 - 11:53 (no briefing) 7/6 12:15 - 12:58 (12:33-12:48) 7/8 1:07 - 2:21 (1:53-2:22) 7/15 12:48 - 1:48 (12:54-1:23) 7/19 1:04 - 2:24 (1:52-2:22) 7/21 12:22 - 2:02 (1:10-1:40) 7/22 10:11 - 10:47 (no briefing) 7/29 6:03 - 6:21 (no briefing) 8/2/04 10:59 - 1:47 (1:02-1:39) (there 2 hours early) 8/9 12:07 - 1:03 (12:31-12:59) 8/17 11:06 - 12:31 (no briefing) 8/27 9:10 - 9:37 (no briefing) 9/10/04 11:19 - 12:55 (no briefing) 9/15 12:17 - 1:56 (1:11-1:45) 9/22 11:57 - 12:34 (no briefing) 9/23 11:19 - 1:14 (Bush press conference with Allawi) 11/2/04 1:31 - 2:20 (no briefing) (Election Day) 11/4 9:16 - 12:11 (Bush press conference 11:17-11:57) 11/8 11:50 - 1:08 (12:20-12:52) 11/10 12:35 - 12:58 (12:26-12:45) (arrives late) 11/12 10:57 -- no exit (Bush press conference with Blair) 11/16 12:26 - 1:51 (12:20-1:32) (arrives late) 11/17 12:07 - 2:14 (12:38-1:10) 11/29 12:23 - 1:49 (12:56-1:32) 12/6/04 12:37 - 1:59 (1:03-1:36) 12/8 12:07 - 1:41 (1:05-1:39) 12/10 12:32 - 1:51 (1:06-1:32) 12/13 12:18 - 1:36 (12:50-1:18) 12/14 12:46 - 1:53 (12:48-1:23) 12/17 12:16 - 1:48 (12:47-1:14) 12/20 10:05 - 11:49 (Bush press conference, 10:32-11:25) 12/21 12:00 - 2:04 (12:35-1:10) 12/22 12:04 - 1:08 (no briefing) 12/23 12:31 - 1:26 (no briefing) 1/18/05 12:05 - 1:36 (12:28-12:57) 1/19 12:26 - 1:38 (12:48-1:19) 1/25 12:19 - 1:04 (12:23-12:53) 1/26 9:54 - 10:56 (Bush press conference, 10:00-10:47) 1/31 12:27 - 1:24 (12:45-1:16) 2/1/05 12:11 no exit (12:18-12:47) 2/7 12:10 - 3:00 (1:45-1:06) SNIP... Okay, maybe there's no scandal here. Lots of people, mostly tourists, visit the White House. But it does seem odd that Gannon was there at least 32 times on days when there were no briefings, or returned later in the day to the presidential mansion after a briefing. Seems he'd spend about an hour or hour and a half in the White House on these occasions. Or he'd be there for an hour or hour and a half before or after the briefings. I suppose that it could be shown he was there to consult with someone about what sort of questions he might raise in the next briefing, that could produce a small scandal. But the media hasn't really taken on the president's manipulation of reporters to date and protested and exposed it effectively. The records also show days when Gannon checked in but never properly checked out, beginning in July 2003 or five months after he started his White House journalistic activities. This doesn't necessarily cry out "Scandal!" since lots of people have slept over at the Bush White House. But usually they're big fundraisers or family members. For someone like Gannon to be there, apparently sleeping over, on twelve different nights seems curious. Surely he had his own lodgings nearby. But after all, in his "reporter" capacity he was a friend of the administration and like Jacko says, friends often let friends sleep over. Dowbenko indicates that the president was in his house on all these occasions, but I imagine Laura and the Secret Service people were there too. Of course it is a big house, room for everybody and a degree of privacy even in these terror-haunted, well-monitored times. CONTINUED... http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp05212005.html We live in interesting times, blogslut. |
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| Flabbergasted
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 05:49 PM Response to Reply #48 |
| 206. What is the picture on the bottom? |
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 10:57 PM Response to Reply #206 |
| 223. Thought it was Jeff Gannon. Others disagree. |
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Here are a couple photos that are interesting. Some say it's also Gannon whom Bush hugs:
 White House sleepover backgrounder: http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp05212005.html |
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| Mr Rabble
(1000+ posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 03:44 PM Response to Reply #42 |
| 50. Thank you Octa. Remember this: |
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Even if not one single BFEE opponent has in fact been "suicided", the reign of terror of the BFEE is responsible for civilian deaths in excess of 1,000,000 over the last 20 years. They have killed without remorse, and done so as a simple matter of course. Period.
To think that the BFEE would not be involved in the murder of a critic is staggeringly naive. While I dont think that there is a BFEE link to every dissident "suicide", I have seen far too many connections to think that this is something they would not engage in. |
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| Octafish
(1000+ posts)
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Thu Dec-28-06 10:29 PM Response to Reply #50 |
| 221. You're welcome, emperor72. Thank you! |
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Human life has no meaning to them, apart from their own.
At best, members of the BFEE are sociopathic mass-murderers. For those new to the subject: Please consider the first Gulf War and when George Herbert Walker Bush ordered the U.S. armed forces to fire on a fleeing army of defenseless conscripts.  The Massacre of Withdrawing Soldiers on "The Highway of Death" by Joyce Chediac I want to give testimony on what are called the "highways of death." These are the two Kuwaiti roadways, littered with remains of 2,000 mangled Iraqi military vehicles, and the charred and dismembered bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers, who were withdrawing from Kuwait on February 26th and 27th 1991 in compliance with UN resolutions. U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. "It was like shooting fish in a barrel," said one U.S. pilot. The horror is still there to see. On the inland highway to Basra is mile after mile of burned, smashed, shattered vehicles of every description - tanks, armored cars, trucks, autos, fire trucks, according to the March 18, 1991, Time magazine. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun, says the Los Angeles Times of March 11, 1991. While 450 people survived the inland road bombing to surrender, this was not the case with the 60 miles of the coastal road. There for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely. The cabs of trucks were bombed so much that they were pushed into the ground, and it's impossible to see if they contain drivers or not. Windshields were melted away, and huge tanks were reduced to shrapnel. "Even in Vietnam I didn't see anything like this. It's pathetic," said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer. This one-sided carnage, this racist mass murder of Arab people, occurred while White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater promised that the U.S. and its coalition partners would not attack Iraqi forces leaving Kuwait. This is surely one of the most heinous war crimes in contemporary history. The Iraqi troops were not being driven out of Kuwait by U.S. troops as the Bush administration maintains. They were not retreating in order to regroup and fight again. In fact, they were withdrawing, they were going home, responding to orders issued by Baghdad, announcing that it was complying with Resolution 660 and leaving Kuwait. At 5:35 p.m. (Eastern standard Time) Baghdad radio announced that Iraq's Foreign Minister had accepted the Soviet cease-fire proposal and had issued the order for all Iraqi troops to withdraw to postions held before August 2, 1990 in compliance with UN Resolution 660. President Bush responded immediately from the White House saying (through spokesman Marlin Fitzwater) that "there was no evidence to suggest the Iraqi army is withdrawing. In fact, Iraqi units are continuing to fight. . . We continue to prosecute the war." On the next day, February 26, 1991, Saddam Hussein announced on Baghdad radio that Iraqi troops had, indeed, begun to withdraw from Kuwait and that the withdrawal would be complete that day. Again, Bush reacted, calling Hussein's announcement "an outrage" and "a cruel hoax." CONTINUED... http://radioislam.org/historia/zionism/hwy_death.html More on the "Highway of Death": http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-593-3127/conflict_war/g... Thanks for giving a damn, emperor72. Thanks also for your understanding. |
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| thingfisher
(445 posts)
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Wed Dec-27-06 04:56 PM Response to Reply #42 |
| 58. How about Danny Casolaro? |
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| Taxloss
(1000+ posts)
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