How many families have to live on minimum wage?

[Deja Q]

A republican on a political program right now thinks nobody is raising a family on minimum wage.

Well, maybe one or two parents both doing one or two jobs...

And he says a person who has to live on minimum wage has no right to raise a family. (Which may or may not be true, but many who can readily afford families aren't so bright either... and vice-versa.)

I wish I had a transcript, but the phrase "two-faced" suits him nicely.

And given our economy depends on people spending, HOW is giving more people money going to hurt (contrary to his idiotic beliefs)?! We are the ones spending it. :think:

[iamjoy]

1. No Right To Raise A Family

wait a minute, is this Repub. Pro-Cnoice or does he call himself Pro-Life? Because if he is anti-Choice, I'd just like to know exactly what he thinks these people should do to prevent having a family.

Let's see, the anti-choice crowd only funds abstinence education, they won't know about birth control. If they happen to have learned about birth control some where else, they won't be able to afford it since you don't think they have a right to medical insurance (or that their insurance should have to pay for b.c.) and you don't want to fund real family planning clinics. You certainly don't support abortion rights.

SO, methinks what you're really saying is that sex is a privilege for the wealthy.


of course, I suppose the poor could always be forced to give up their kids for adoption. Nice Pro-Family attitude.

:grr:

[Deja Q]

2. Exactly, two-faced. And what are their goals anyway?

Good pay for hard, good work? I thought meritocracy was dead, or so their actions tell us to believe.
:shrug:

[dorktv]

15. No, the poor should not be having sex at all. Only those who can

afford children should be allowed to have sex.

[melm00se]

3. minimum wage data

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005tbls.htm

1.8 million folks at or below the federal minimum wage.

most likely under 25, never married, working in the food industry

[TahitiNut]

4. 41% with more than a high school diploma (6% with a Bachelors degree)

Sure does show the value of an education, doesn't it? :puke:

[melm00se]

9. raw numbers

can be deceiving.

A US Census Bureau reports shows that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

so lets see, get a bachelors degree and earn almost 2x as much as a high school graduate...sounds like an education really does have significant financial value.

[Trillo]

11. Do you believe that it's fair

for a bachelor's degree to earn nearly twice as much when they only spend about 1 1/3 more time in school? Or, restated, for a high school grad to earn about 1/2 as much when they spend 3/4 of the time in school the bachelor's degree does?

[melm00se]

16. it all really depends upon

what value each person brings to the business...

the current mind set is that a college educated person has more to offer and has a larger impact upon the overall profitability/effectiveness of an organization. that larger impact is rewarded by larger compensation.

whether or not I think it is fair is immaterial. the folks who are willing to exchange money for labor obviously do feel the exchange is fair.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. You believe a college education is worth ANYTHING anymore?

I have a doctorate, I have a friend with a master's degree in Math and Physics.
We have three degrees each and have both been unemployed for a long time. Several years, not months.

I looked for a job as a legal assistant for a year and got ONE interview, that is with a Juris Doctor (Doctor of Jurisprudence) -- standard law degree. A law degree is 90 semesters hours of unbelievably difficult hell. The "authorities" say that the legal field is growing. I don't believe it.

They destroyed the middle class and there is NO value to a college education and experience that I can see. Graduate degrees are worthless too. At least not if you've committed the UNPARDONABLE SIN of AGING and being near or over FIFTY. :banghead:

[Midlodemocrat]

19. I didn't get my doctorate to get a job. In fact, I'm not currently working

in my field, but it was my choice not to. The hours weren't conducive to raising my own children. I got my doctorate because I truly enjoyed the field (psychology).

[TahitiNut]

13. "on average" ... there is almost no more deceiving statistic than the 'average'

When Bill Gates enters the rooom, the 'average' person becomes a billionaire ... even if destitute and homeless. It's a common fallacy to say that the 'average person' has some kind of characteristic, especially when it comes to economics. It's almost as fallacious as saying the 'average' person in the U.S. is 34 years old and 51% female.

[melm00se]

14. ok, lets take the median income...

the median weekly income for a bachelor degree holder is ~40% higher than the median weekly income of a high school diploma holder....

that number adds up quickly over time...

[hfojvt]

5. that looks deceptive to me

it shows 879,000 people over the age of 25 making minimum wage or less. Less? How can somebody legally make less than minimum wage. My guess is that the 683,000 workers over 25 who are making less than minimum wage are wait staff or in sales and really making far more than minimum wage when you figure in their tips or commissions. So the real numbers are much smaller 104,000 between the ages of 19-24 and 196,000 over the age of 25.

My guess was confirmed in table 4 which shows 966,000 of the 1.4 million making less than minimum wage as being in the food service industry.

[TahitiNut]

7. Many employees are NOT covered by the FLSA

This is a very common error folks make regarding "small business" and the minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is part of the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) and, with some exceptions, smaller businesses are not covered by it, not are their employees.

Furthermore, the majority of "tipped employees" are covered only to the extent that their wages plus their tips must meet or exceed the minimum wage amount - their actual wage can be far smaller than $5.15/hour.

[hfojvt]

8. but it is not their "actual wage"

not in the sense of what they are really making for an hour's work. They are actually making far more than minimum wage, as an hourly rate if not a wage from an employer, but in the statistics as making less.

That still leaves 500,000 people that may or may not be making less than minimum wage.

Considering how government economists define "small" (I think, less than 200 employees) that would leave alot of workers not covered by the minimum wage law. Scary.

[lostinacause]

6. The question that should be asked is not "how many families are living off minimium wage?"

or "can a family live off of minimum wage?" We should be asking what the effect of minimum wage has on accomplishing socially desirable goals. Cleary, there are other policies that accomplish similar goals. We must look at wage regulations by comparing the costs and benefits of these policies to others.

[LostInAnomie]

10. Not minimum but....

... at my old job I used to work with a lady that made $5.55/hour and was raising 2 boys. Her husband was arrested for cooking meth with his brother in another state and as a result most of their families possessions were taken by the government. She lost her car, house, and bank account. She was forced to more into a junky trailer that one of her friends had in their back yard. She never finished high school, had very limited work experience, and could only find a job where her feet and poor physical condition would carry her.

RWer's would say that it is this woman's own fault for making poor decisions in her life, and that she should pull herself up by her own boot straps without depending on the government. $5.55/hour doesn't go very far though when you are taking care of two boys, paying rent and utilities, buying food and clothes, etc. There isn't a lot left over to put back for a car, insurance, and gas to go find a better job (there's no public transit in my town). Education isn't going to help since a HS education is worth nothing anymore.

This woman and her kids are dependent on assistance from the government. Without assistance the kids wouldn't be able to go to the doctor, or eat daily. In a system like ours there will always be someone on top and someone on bottom. Welfare is the way we make sure that the ones at the bottom and their children don't starve to death in the street.

[Rosemary2205]

12. The UAW says about 17 million Americans

work a total of 40 hrs or more at minimum wage. Most of these jobs are part time and require someone to work at least 2 jobs to even get to full employment.

They also state there are ANOTHER 12 million service workers who's official rate of pay is BELOW minimum wage and they depend on tips to bring them up to at least minimum.

[melm00se]

18. if you look at the numbers

in table 10, you will find that the UAW numbers are grossly inflated. the highest # of workers ever at or below minimum wage was in 1981 with 7.8 million workers and the numbers have been steadily dropping since then, to the current all time low of 1.8 million.