"Seven Good Reasons To Keep Our Troops On Iraq Battleground"..scary letter.

[madfloridian]

Scary mindset, very upsetting to see this in the paper today. Just when you thought it was safe to go outdoors.

Seven Good Reasons To Keep Our Troops On Iraq Battleground

First the writer states that "if our country was united in this war and the enemy did not see the cracks in our solidarity the battle of Iraq could have been won long ago."

Then it gets worse:

In the meantime consider these positive motives for our forces to remain in Iraq.

1. We are killing terrorists and Islamic radicals there at a far greater rate than anyplace else in the world. (We are at war with them).

2. More suicide bombers are killing themselves there than any other place on earth. (Also, they are killing civilians there rather than here).

3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that
are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike.

4. There will be many experienced warriors capable of training new inductees as we hopefully increase our domestic troop strength.

5. Terrorists are pretty much tied up in Iraq, unable to attack targets elsewhere (the U.S.).

6. We are causing Iran and Syria to spend much of their resources backing the anti-American forces in Iraq.

7. The Pentagon has a readily available place to test new or
improved equipment in a real world environment.

At first I thought this was satire. However, on second reading, it does not appear to be.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Yuck

and from point number 3, I'd say it would be a short step for this fellow to take to advocate rounding up all Muslims in this country....

[madfloridian]

2. It sickened me to see it in the paper today.

I wish it had been a joke.

[bowens43]

3. what a sick bastard.

[donco6]

4. Interesting that none of them have anything to do . . .

with the Shrub's stated reasons for going to war.

Wouldn't it be better to go to war with honorable reasons already in place rather than trying to think úp reasons after the fact as to why our men and women aren't dying in vain?

[jgraz]

5. My response, just posted

Way to go, Ledger, publishing such a hateful, warmongering, anti-Christan screed two days before most of your readers will celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace.

What's next? A David Duke editorial on Martin Luther King Jr's birthday?

As for Mr. Martin, instead of dragging your ignorant, hypocritical *** into church this Sunday, perhaps you should go down to your local military recruiter's office and sign up for the new "Surge" your president is salivating over. God knows you could use a little "superb experience in the type of battles that are likely to be fought in the coming years".

[madfloridian]

6. Beautiful rant.

I hope others will post something. I really do. I just felt sick and embarrassed to read it.

[tinfoil tiaras]

8. When I first saw "ledger" I thought it was The Clarion Ledger

my local paper with loads of RW LTTEs in it... I can barely look at the editorial page anymore.

I found these gems on the internets today. For those with strong stomachs...

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

it wasn't as bad today as it usually is, though.

and the forums...dear god.
http://forum.clarionledger.com/index.php

I dare some DUers to venture in there...

[madfloridian]

10. Thanks, I guess, for sharing those. Pretty bad.

I always do searches on sentences when I see outrageous letters like the one in our paper today...sometimes it turns up others or turns up talking points from Rush or his kind.

[tinfoil tiaras]

17. Haha, i know

i'ts like they're have a handbook or something and they all get their arguments straight from it..

Speaking of. My friend has this hilarious book called The Republican Playbook.

http://www.amazon.com/Republican-Playbook-Andy-Borowitz...

here it is. Too funny

[jgraz]

7. Well, let's nom this and keep it kicked

I think Mr. Martin could do with a few holiday wishes from Democratic Underground.

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, Mr. Martin does need wishes.

[TahitiNut]

11. "superb experience"??

[madfloridian]

13. Yep...this guy has Virgil Goode sounding like a real liberal guy.

I am embarrassed that this Martin fellow is from my area of Florida.

[jgraz]

14. Sadly, Martin-types aren't limited to Lakeland...

There's an Escalade with a W sticker parked right around the corner from my house in Berkeley.

[tinfoil tiaras]

18. Berkeley as in California?

Right wingers always say that Berkley is like the haven of liberals and progressives.

W in Berkeley...that's pretty bad.

[TahitiNut]

21. Yep. A cannibal at a vegetarian picnic.

Obscene.

[jgraz]

24. They're pretty rare -- my precinct was the most Democratic in the country

based on donations to Dems vs Rethugs. IIRC, there was only one $600 donation to Dumbass/Satan '04 from my neighborhood. I'm guessing it was Mr Escalade.

[tinfoil tiaras]

27. Probably

I guess I shouldn't ask why Escalade bothers living in Berkeley, considering I live in the Dumbfuck country of all Dumbfuck country-Mississippi...

[judaspriestess]

12. well lets see

Iran and Syria are spending much of their resources, EHHHHH wrong, they have OIL, OIL, OIL their resources are going to be ok.

wow, this sounds so picnicky, too bad he forgot to mention all the US soldier's deaths

[Cha]

15. "..too bad he forgot to mention all the US soldier's deaths"

That's gordon martin's, Lakeland, Florida, cannon fodder.

KNR!

[Monkeyman]

16. Take your seven reasons and put them where the sun don't shine

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Sounds like Bush's speechwriter.

Should cut down on the more-than-two syllable words though.

[tinfoil tiaras]

20. Guess who's vying for Tony Snow's job...

eom.

[madfloridian]

22. Oh dear lord, another sick one from last week...

I just glanced back to see how bad it was getting, as I had not been reading the letters recently. This is pathetic. Where are they getting these talking points?

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...

"So often I hear or read about impatient, shortsighted Americans who complain about the war in Iraq and how we should get out of there. What short memories those Americans have since 9/11.

Going immediately from Afghanistan to Iraq was the only thing that stopped the terrorists' growing momentum. It makes me wonder how World War II would have gone after Pearl Harbor if Americans had thought then the way they do now.

"So many Americans today just don't get it, but I'm grateful that there are still many more Americans who do get it. They're there to keep the terrorists away from us here and their presence there is the only thing that's keeping them from setting their sights exclusively on our homeland again.

So, I thank you for us all. I thank you for your courage in the face of terrible and endless danger. I thank you for standing up to the evil the world keeps spewing out. I thank you for keeping all of us at home in this wonderfully free country safe from what you have to deal with on a daily basis over there."

[jgraz]

26. madflo, why aren't you writing in?

You're pretty damn articulate. Give those neocons what-for!

[madfloridian]

30. I had many published last year.

They got pissed with me when I started going after our red-headed Adam Opie Putman...they love him so. District 12, 32 year old. The one who said white rednecks who go to church didn't even vote for Republicans.

To be fair they published a lot of mine, but I am kind of on the bad list right now. They love their Opie.

[jgraz]

31. Ha -- god forbid the rednecks should see an opposing view

I bet you made some of their heads explode.

[nosmokes]

23. so why isn't ol' gordy over there hisself if he's so keen on this thing?

maybe he don't qualify for the service but there's a shitload of private contractors over there and they all need truck drivers and cooks and accountants and all sorts of people and they pay damn good wages. so get off your own bloodthirsty ass gordon, dress it up in all the gaudy american flag polyester clothing you have and hi-tail it right on over to the islamo-fascist shooting gallery and fight there so you don't hafta fight 'em in lakeland, OK? then you and me and your neighbors will all be better off.

[Rex]

25. Hmm...so why ain't the author over there fighting alongside the troops?

I'll tell ya why, because he is a chickenshit coward. Enjoy Christmas, you worthless coward!

[nuxvomica]

28. Doesn't point 3 contradict points 1 and 2?

If we're killing all the terrorists et al. over there, why should we worry about them over here? If the answer is that they are homegrown over here, why haven't they risen up yet? Seems like this would be the perfect time considering all the troops are over there getting that superb training. There may be other errors in his assessment but that one just jumped out at me.

[Yukari Yakumo]

29. Responce to point 5

That's true because they're too busy picking off easy targets in their own backyard.

This whole list is probably going to become Faux's new talking points.

[jgraz]

33. crap -- wrong spot. Bush sucks ass

Re-using this space to provide the following public service message: Bush is an evil asshat.

[alfredo]

32. point by point

1. We are killing terrorists and Islamic radicals there at a far greater rate than anyplace else in the world. (We are at war with them).

-- Did the British call our founding fathers such names when we were fighting to rid our land of their soldiers and corrupt governing?

2. More suicide bombers are killing themselves there than any other place on earth. (Also, they are killing civilians there rather than here).

-- It's a civil war sparked by our lack of post war planning. Suicide bombering isn't just about killing, it is about instilling fear. The 9-11 plotters were a variation on the suicide bomber. Our nation has been paralyzed with fear since then.

3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that
are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike.

-- they are also learning how to wait months to see a doctor after being wounded in Iraq. They also get to see the very lawmakers who were hot for this war, cut veterans benefits, including healthcare.

Yep, the longer we stay in Iraq, the more training the Islamic fighters get, the more knowledge they gain of our tactics. They learn about weakness in our equipment, and how to defeat our countermeasure. Several rotations of fighters have been trained on the streets of Baghdad and Haditha. They have also been trained by our own soldiers, and paid by our taxes.

4. There will be many experienced warriors capable of training new inductees as we hopefully increase our domestic troop strength.

-- Yeah, and many will be a lot younger than the middle aged recruits we have resorted to accepting.

5. Terrorists are pretty much tied up in Iraq, unable to attack targets elsewhere (the U.S.).

-- Remember, it was eight years between the first WTC attack and 9-11. All they need is a handful of those fighters to terrify our whole nation into surrendering our constitutional rights. They attack on their own time table, not ours. Osama wanted to goad us into attacking them on their turf so they could drain our treasury, break our military, and ruin our name world wide. As long as we fight in Iraq we are giving Osama what he wants.

6. We are causing Iran and Syria to spend much of their resources backing the anti-American forces in Iraq.

-- You are forgetting Saudi Arabia. They are funding the Sunni insurgents. Oh that's right, bush and the Saudis are good friends.

7. The Pentagon has a readily available place to test new or
improved equipment in a real world environment.

-- Just recently an American General proposed testing new weapons on American Civilians.

[jgraz]

34. All good points, but sadly ineffective

Anyone with half a brain knows all this already, and the rest of the morans are beyond help. I honestly don't know anything that works with these people other than giving them a verbal kick in the nuts. All they understand is anger and bullying and we better be ready to give it to them if we want to keep our side in charge.

[alfredo]

35. Yeah, but it is still fun to give them a poke in the eye.

[NoPasaran]

36. Not so much scary as sickeningly stupid

1. We are killing terrorists and Islamic radicals there at a far greater rate than anyplace else in the world. (We are at war with them).

And they're killing our troops at a far greater rate than anywhere else in the world

2. More suicide bombers are killing themselves there than any other place on earth. (Also, they are killing civilians there rather than here).

I'm sure the long-suffering Iraqi people don't mind being the target of all those suicide bombers.

3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that
are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike.

So for all of this fighting and suffering in Iraq, the author doesn't believe that we will actually defeat the terrorists there but must wait for when they inevitably "rise up" here. Why does he hate America?

4. There will be many experienced warriors capable of training new inductees as we hopefully increase our domestic troop strength.

Except for those who are leaving the service as quickly as they can because they're tired of repeated deployments in Iraq, which will damage the armed forces in innumerable ways over the next decade, Iraq or no Iraq.

5. Terrorists are pretty much tied up in Iraq, unable to attack targets elsewhere (the U.S.).

Tell that to the people in Bali. Or Madrid. Or Britain. Or all the air travelers who had their tooth paste and shampoo confiscated because it was a "threat".

6. We are causing Iran and Syria to spend much of their resources backing the anti-American forces in Iraq.

Yeah, the Iranian nuke program is now almost five minutes behind schedule.

7. The Pentagon has a readily available place to test new or
improved equipment in a real world environment.

Like armored Humvees? Yeah, they're sure getting a real world test! And again, the Iraqi people WHO WE EXPECT TO STAND UP AND EMBRACE DEMOCRACY are no doubt grateful that their country has been turned into a military testing ground.

[Phrogman]

48. You just decimated his logic, good post

You have excellent, strong and sensible counterpoints.
Unarguable for any sane person.

[roamer65]

37. I need to test out one of my new pistols...

...don't you think I should get to do some target shooting in the writer's yard and around his house? After all it would be great practice in "unfamiliar terrain", using his warped logic. Seems he advocates playing in Iraq's backyard, so why not his?


Oviously, he would say "no". Did the Iraqis get to say "no" to us turning their backyards , and everywhere else, into a war zone?

[and-justice-for-all]

38. Crap, I thought it was these 7..

1: Oil
2: Oil
3: Oil
4: Oil
5: Oil
6: Oil
7: Domination

Oops, my bad.

[madfloridian]

39. Another beauty....Rumsfeld deserved tribute.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...

"Rumsfeld Deserved Tribute

Friday, Dec. 15, we got to see history in the making, not manipulated by the VLWM (Vast Left Wing Media). C-SPAN broadcast the entire farewell that was presented for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Rummy will be remembered in history for his tenacity and drive to strengthen our military, not for a stain on some girl's dress. God bless America!"

Yes, this is the mindset here. The blue dress is more important than all the deaths and shame for our country caused by Rumsfeld.

Our newly sworn in county Democratic leader was asked in an interview why there were no local Democrats, why there haven't been for years.

This chairman of the DEC here blamed it on Clinton's morality in the White House. I was so disgusted that she said that. That is the mindset in this area overall.

[tinfoil tiaras]

40. Oh god. The Clenis strikes again.

WTF is the right wing's obsession with Clinton's sex life? It's kinda creepy, imo.

[madfloridian]

41. And from our own chairman of the county party.

You know, I need to find that quote and save it...she alarmed me. I may be critical of either Clinton here, or question something...but if I were party chair I would never have said that in an interview for the paper. It would be way out of line.

[tinfoil tiaras]

42. It WAS out of line

being THAT obsessed with someones sex life is, imo, very creepy and says something about the person that's doing the obsessing (i.e. the right wing throughout the 1990s)

[madfloridian]

44. Here is her statement in the interview...

"Q. Even now only one Democrat has been elected locally, and there hasn't been a Polk Democrat in the Legislature since 2000. What happened?

A. I think nationally, it was because Bill Clinton squandered his presidency (with the sex scandal). All that he wanted to do, he couldn't get past the Republican Congress after that. When the USS Cole was bombed, he could have bombed Afghanistan then, but if he had he would have been accused of trying to divert attention from the impeachment.

His problems gave people an in to discredit all Democrats. And again, here, we never had to campaign before and still don't get our message out."

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...

[Ioo]

43. This guy has a very "Set Number of Terrorist" issue

for every one that dies, 3 more are made... we are not winning, because this type of war is not winnable

[dave_p]

45. Staggering

"1. We are killing terrorists and Islamic radicals there at a far greater rate than anyplace else in the world. (We are at war with them)."
Yes, and the other side's recruiting them even faster!

"2. More suicide bombers are killing themselves there than any other place on earth. (Also, they are killing civilians there rather than here)."
That's a success? Since when were civilian deaths a measure of success? And the idiot doesn't realise that "suiciders" recruit too.

"3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike."
"Superb" experience! They're just looking forward to the next one! The only experience they're not getting is er, winning.

"4. There will be many experienced warriors capable of training new inductees as we hopefully increase our domestic troop strength."
It never occurred to the moron that that goes for both sides? And who's inducting more?

"5. Terrorists are pretty much tied up in Iraq, unable to attack targets elsewhere (the U.S.)."
And they aren't the only ones!

"6. We are causing Iran and Syria to spend much of their resources backing the anti-American forces in Iraq."
Simply not true. Syria's committing little if anything, and Iran hardly needs to bankrupt itself to make 16 million Iraqi Shia a force to be reckoned with.

"7. The Pentagon has a readily available place to test new or improved equipment in a real world environment."
... or to use up old equipment so it can demand replacements? I don't hear much praise from the troops for their "improved equipment".

Scary indeed.

[shance]

46. Very sad to observe the white supremist mentality and hatred towards Muslims

happening in our country.

It's thinly veiled and then its not so thinly veiled.

It is also the "who gives a damn as long as it's not happening to me or my family" mentality.

Perhaps I can help with why all of us should give a damn.

Some otherwise capable human beings can't seem to comprehend that the actions going on OVER THERE, most assuredly will affect all of us at some point in the future, perhaps by those in our own government. Certainly by those in a viable position of power.

Does anyone remember or even realize how the German citizens were treated after World War II?

Well, many of them had staunchly opposed Hitler however, that didn't matter after World War II.

What mattered only was that they were Germans and they were now essentially prisoners of war.

Many were sent to work 'camps'in Poland AFTER the war. While some certainly deserved incarceration and imprisonment, many others died there, were murdered, horrifically abused and undeservedly so.

In reality, the only thing that mattered on how they were treated was they were Germans and that the Germans were then perceived as all being bad.

Don't think that can happen in America? Really?

Are you looking at what is being done to our economy, our jobs, our education, our family units? Our connections to one another? The fear mongering? The increased isolation between religious, civic, groups and the increased creation of different groups altogether? {Separation is the opposite of coming together as communities and actually learning to work together.}

For years after the war, Germans were treated with disgust and estrangement and essentially like dirt and yet so many of them had feared and hated Hitler themselves and thought he was a nut. And yes, they laughed at Hitler, like many Americans like to laugh at George Bush.

Sound familiar?

Some may think Bush is funny, but the Administration is not funny at all.

The German people today are just now actually feeling more freedom from the shadows of Adolph Hitler and escaping the tragedy beset on their nation by the maseonic dictator and don't forget the businessmen war profiteers, American businessmen included, who profited enormously and made mints off of peoples deaths and loss by deception and lies.

Many Germans if not most were victims of Hitler's reign like everyone else, and many tried to stop Hitler, but it was too late by the time they had figured out just how bad it was.

Again, sound familiar?

This week, George Bush and his New World Administration just signed into law a 38 million restoration and maintenence grant to preserve the Japanese Internment camps.

Now why would they do that?

When and more importantly, why did the preservation of the Japanese Internment camps become such a priority now?

Spreading Christmas cheer?

[buddysmellgood]

47. Merry Christmas from the bunker folks! Lock and load! YEEEEHAW

[tabasco]

49. Can we exile these assholes already? How about Somalia?

I hate sharing the country with these ignorant chickenshit assholes.

[ellisonz]

50. Nuts?

[tbyg52]

51. Be sure and read the comments

so you don't get *too* depressed.
http://forums.theledger.com/eve/forums?a=dl&f=263106236... /

[madfloridian]

52. Another treasure: GWB and Dr. Phil most influential Christians worldwide.

This is from last year, but just disturbed me so when I read it.

http://search.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/...

First, I would like to commend The Ledger for your edition of Jan. 20 covering the presidential inauguration of our 43rd president.

Second, I want to say that I believe the two most influential people in the United States -- and perhaps the entire world, because both men are known worldwide -- are President George W. Bush and Dr. Phil McGraw. These two men have done more to make people more aware of moral and family values than anyone else. Both men are real Christians and have unashamedly told of their experience with Jesus Christ.

During halftime of the recent Orange Bowl, I turned to PBS to view a program titled "Frontline -- The Jesus Factor." I was thrilled to see that a life story of our president, George W. Bush, was being shown. What a story! This is worth having a movie made, which I hope will happen in the future. This episode showed the good and the bad. After all, no one is perfect and no one other than Jesus Christ himself was perfect and, yet, he was criticized and ultimately crucified on a cross. All of the criticism surrounding President Bush and Dr. Phil is nothing new, and this will continue.

I remember The Jesus Factor. Most of here who watched it were stunned. It really inspired those who see him as the leader chosen by God. Lots of them around these parts.