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Re: Mt Hood - mountain climbing/hiking in winter or summer - etc - in case you didn't know

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:07 PM
Original message
Re: Mt Hood - mountain climbing/hiking in winter or summer - etc - in case you didn't know
I apologize in advance for a long ramble, but I feel the urge to talk about this because of so many misconceptions I've read about the Mt Hood climbers here in the last week...things like they were just irresponsible thrill seekers, or rich white boys, negligent hikers, etc. I really feel for those guys. There is nothing scarier and more bleak than what they have gone through. No one can imagine how badly they suffered for such an extended period of time. However, I'm not starting this thread to debate that. We've already been there and done that. I'm just going to try and give you a better picture of what it's all about when you climb/hike in the mountains.

Climbing mountains is not at all a "rich white boys" thing, nor is it simply a "thrill seekers" thing done by irresponsible people. These guys were seasoned hikers who loved the outdoors. They knew what they were doing, but sometimes shit just happens, and yes, they MIGHT have taken one too many chances that they should not have. We don't know that yet, though. Anyway, I'm gonna try and share just what happens when someone goes up a mountain....just in case you've never walked up one and would like to understand more what's involved. If you're not at all interested in the outdoors, this might bore you to death. In fact, it might bore you anyway!

When you hear someone talk about "mountain climbing", many of you are probably picturing someone using ice ladders, ropes, and other technical gear to climb up sheer faces of rock and ice. Unless you're climbing Everest or K2, it's not usually like that. As far as I know, it isn't like that for Mt Hood either.

Most "mountain climbing", including the climbs up Mt Hood, are not the kind of mountain climbing that involves technical experience such as using any kind of technical equipment, other than normal traction aids if you hike in winter. Most mountain climbers are just plain old hikers who happen to hike uphill. Many of you, as long as you're in excellent aerobic shape, could hike up many mountains, even to the top of Mt Hood as long as you had someone guiding you and preparing you for emergency. However, there are plenty of shorter climbs to enjoy all across the USA, which are much less complicated and that you could easily do on your own, and hence you, too, would be mountain climbers...or hikers...similar to the men who hiked up Mt Hood. All you need to do is go to a local "trail head" along a highway near a mountain, and start up the trail, but keep reading first...

If you hike on mountain trails, the people you're going to meet on the trail are some of the coolest people around, many of them really liberal minded and almost all of them environmental advocates. It only makes sense that if you love hiking mountains, or hiking anywhere for that matter, that you're going to a strong advocate for the environment yourself.

I hike up mountains in the Adirondacks whenever I get a chance, mostly with my wife, including during the winter, using either snowshoes (with built in crampons for traction) or ice crampons when the trail gets steeper, icier, or when it gets packed like concrete. If you take the proper precautions, it's a pretty safe sport. It's almost always on established trails, and you should never leave the trail. In winter when the trails are well packed, there's nothing more fun than strapping on a pair of 10-point crampons to your boots and walking up and down the slope with ease, like a cat with sharp claws, other than the usual huffing and puffing you're gonna do. With mountaineering crampons on, you will not slip. Most times we use snowshoes, though (aluminum Tubbs w/built in traction). In lots of ways, hiking is easier in winter. There are no bugs, and the air is much cleaner in winter so you can see farther when you're on top. The trails in winter...which in summer are eroded, rocky and uneven....are leveled over in a pillowy white trail. Working your way up through a winter wonderland with snow clinging to all the trees is almost magical to experience. The landscape up high in winter is incredibly beautiful. The only time it's hard in winter to walk in the woods on snowshoes is when you're breaking trail after a fresh deep snowfall. Most of the trails are well used enough that it's best to wait a day or so after a fresh snowfall for the snow to get packed by other hikers or for it to simply settle on its own. Don't get me wrong...summer hiking is wonderful, too, and a lot less complicated....and safer of course.

Most of the time, people hike up mountains on established trails, which makes getting lost pretty hard...unless you leave the trail or unless you end up hiking back after dark without a headlamp.

I can sort of relate to what happened to the Mt Hood climbers. One time in winter around 12 years ago, my family and another family once ran into near catastrophic weather conditions above treeline on a high peak in the Adirondacks. It was not snowing that day, and only flurries were forecast. Our group got separated into two groups, the adults in one and our teenage kids in the other, and becoming separated almost caused a tragic outcome. As soon as we got above the complete shelter of tree line, the wind coming across the open summit was around 75 mph, creating a total whiteout and windchills around 50 below zero or worse. You could hardly stand up, let alone move, and the ice pellets shot into any exposed skin on our faces like bullets. Frostbite would come very quickly out there. There is nothing you can do under those conditions out in the open. You can't see, you can barely go anywhere without risking walking right off a slope or cliff, and if you're separated, that's asking for disaster because people start looking for the other people and then someone invariably gets lost. You just can't imagine how cold, painful, and scary it is to be trying to find your teenage kids somewhere between treeline and the summit, thinking how they could only survive for a very short period of time or that they might have walked over one of the cliffs in the whiteout. We were very lucky and found them after a half hour of panic-stricken searching, thinking they might be goners. The weird thing is that, although it was a total whiteout, it wasn't actually snowing in the sky. The whiteout blizzard we experienced was simply caused by the hurricane force winds blowing across the summit that day. At the base of the mountain the winds were only at 20 to 25 mph, but the direction of the wind that day took it though a pass and created a severe wind tunnel on the way up and it got magnified ferociously as it went over the top. We learned a serious lesson that day that you should never get separated, especially in winter.

So why do people hike up mountains? It's not just because it's "there". Part of it is just being in the woods. Part of it is being with your close friends or family out there in Mother Nature. Part of it is the satisfaction of making it to the top of the mountain, whether it's just a 1 hour hike up or whether it's several hours up. The biggest reward is at the top...the incredible view you'll get. If the weather is nice, you will not want to come down. A big fringe benefit is that regularly hiking up mountain trails will get you into shape like no other kind of exercise will, and it is not boring. Another huge benefit is that it's something your kids will like doing with you, even if they're in those teenage years when kids often don't like hanging with Mom and Dad. It's a real bonding experience. Hiking/climbing up mountains is something that people of all ages, young and old, can do.

Most times I'm a "fair weather" hiker, meaning I hike up mountains mostly when it's clear out, summer or winter. We pick our days. Of course, the clearer the weather, the better the visibility and the more enjoyable the view will be, along with everything else.

You don't have to be in perfect shape to climb a mountain, but it does pay to be in decent aerobic shape. If it's your first time, pick a small one to climb, something that takes maybe an hour to get up...and go slowly, even slower than you feel like when you first start up the trail. If you try to go too fast at first, you'll burn yourself out and you'll hate it. Half the battle is mental and the more you do it, the easier it becomes. Do your first one in the late spring or summer. Make sure you buy a basic hiking book so you know what to wear and how to plan it. The best things in life are free, and hiking mountains, or hiking in general, is one of those things you can do that costs nothing more than buying good hiking boots and a few layers of synthetic clothing. In summer, all you basically need are good hiking boots and enough water. Try it and you'll better understand what motivates people to climb mountains. You'll see why those Mt Hood guys loved doing what they did, once you get on a trail. You'll see things that you won't possibly see otherwise.

No matter what size mountain you decide to climb, big or small, summer or winter, there is always an element of danger no matter how many precautions you take. But you know what? Sometimes ya just gotta live a tiny bit dangerously....not stupid dangerous, but you know what I mean....like going in the woods even knowing that there's a 1 in a 1000 chance you might slip and sprain an ankle or something along that line. If you're cautious, injuries are rare.

If you're interested in anything to do with hiking basic mountains (not rock climbing or anything involving technical gear), feel free to ask me, even if it's just a question about what to wear.

One last thing I want to say is that I think the reason this Mt Hood story got so much constant coverage is because all of America, including the media, was just in the mood for a happy ending to a story like this one, especially after considering how dismal everything else has been going, what with the awful war and all. We were all pulling for those guys on Mt Hood. Good news is something we all could have used.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. you might be interested in an interview i heard
with one of the rescuers.

the question came up re: closing mt hood during difficult weather -- and the rescuer -- a mountaineer/climber like those he was searching for said that he and others didn't want to see the mt. closed for any reason.

he said he understood that what they did was dangerous but that he defended their right to be dumb sometimes.

now he was being amusing and wry -- but his message was clear.

he didn't ''blame'' the climbers -- he didn't think less of them in any way.

and in fact he felt a kindred spirit with them in that he felt it could happen to him as well.

the shoe was just on the other foot at that time.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yup, I am interested in that
Thanks for posting it. :)
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for this post, mtnsnake.
I am one of those people who watched the story with horror, but didn't quite know whether to feel sympathetic or angry (I felt both). This helps
me to understand the attraction to the sport.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. My pleasure
Glad I could help a little bit with the understanding part.
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for taking
the time to do this. I think what you have said will help many folks better understand the sport,
and the pleasures and pitfalls. And with understanding, comes empathy.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. and thank you for taking
all the time to read it.

And with understanding, comes empathy

Bingo. That's exactly why I posted what I did.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hiking has its share of risks
like any sport. Maybe with mountain climbers the risks are more newsworthy, but statistically it's probably more risky to ride a bike than to hike up mountains.

Bad weather can come up FAST on a mountain, and though preparedness helps your chances it's not a cure-all.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. You got that right
Mountains of any size, especially larger ones, can produce their own weather, which is why sometimes you just can't get a good enough prediction.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Winter + mountains = unacceptable risk, IMHO.
Yeah, I had a friend who died in the mountains this time of year, so I have reasons for my feelings.

I don't think it's necessary to risk your life climbing mountains in the winter to live a full life. My friend, who died, did think so -- but I think he was living 100% when he was cooking us dinner, cracking open a bottle of wine, hanging out with his wife and dog, playing music, holding my newborn son.

He never got around to having the kids he wanted, because he died in an avalanche. He knew it was a risk, and he took it.

In my opinion: socially sanctioned suicidal behavior. A lot of people are hurt *forever* because he needed the thrill or whatever.

Well, I've moved on -- his wife is remarried -- I don't think his parents will ever get over it -- but the saddest thing is he never got to be the person he could have become.

Risking your life for sport is a strange artifact of our overly comfortable society, I think.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Many of the mountains we hike in winter only take a short time
which takes much of the risk out of it.

One of our favorites takes us only about 35 to 45 minutes to get up to the summit. Once in a while, if the weather is a near certainty, and if we don't mess with darkness, we'll do a longer hike up a mountain, maybe one that takes a 5 or 6 hour round trip. Most of the really long hikes we save for warmer weather normally.

I'm sorry about your friend. Did he die by getting lost? Or was it a fall? Hypothermia?

My sincere condolences to you on that.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. bicycle + road = unacceptable risk IMHO
my husband's colleague was killed riding his bike to work, they never found the person who did it, and i am not talking about a motorbike, i am talking about a bicycle bike

and we all know people who have died or sustained serious injury in car accidents so driving a car is an unacceptable risk as well

look, life is risk

your friend did not want to spend his life in the kitchen cracking open a bottle of wine, nor would i, that is not a life at all

risking your life for sport is a hell of a lot better than what most people do everyday, which is risk their life to get to a stupid job

better to go out doing something you love than to be afraid to leave the kitchen, the hearth, and the durn wine bottle

you can't live that life of fear, my friend, you just can't

in japan, you see old people, i mean real old, like their eighties, you see groups of little kids all in uniform, climbing mountains, sure it is a risk but it is worth it to get out there and be a part of what is beautiful in the world



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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. I was hit by a car while riding in September
I'm having shoulder surgery next month and can't wait to get out again.

You're right -- life is a risk. I could sit on my ass and die of a heart attack.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. My daughter rides to work 20 miles roundtrip each day & it worries my wife & I
We've tried to talk her out of it, but she just loves doing it so much that it's hard for her to give it up. She says it's the best part of her day. She says it's not a heavily traveled road. She does take all the precautions and she's well marked with flashers and that, but just the same, I really worry about drivers coming up behind her. One of her older friends who rides bikes just got hit by an older person who just didn't see him. Thankfully, he only sustained minor injuries and his helmet saved him. Anyway, my daughter should be home for Christmas in a couple hours. She loves to hike, and I'm sure we'll be planning a hike or two in the near future. Besides, it's a lot safer to hike! ;)

You're right -- life is a risk. I could sit on my ass and die of a heart attack.


Ain't that so.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Hard to give up biking once you've got the bug
As long as she keeps a rear light flashing (even during the day) and keeps that helmet on she should be OK.

I was hit by an oncoming motorist when she turned left into me. She claimed she didn't see me, and because I ride fairly heavily-traveled routes I'm going to keep a headlight on at all times. Something else which helps considerably to avoid collisions from the rear is a helmet-mounted mirror. When you're riding by yourself, they're great--especially if the road doesn't have a bike lane or much of a shoulder.

Have a great holiday mtnsnake :hi:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thanks for the idea of the helmet mounted mirror. I'm gonna try that myself
when I ride occasionally.

You have a fantastic holiday, too, wtmusic, and good luck with that shoulder surgery. I'm sure you'll be fine and out there riding again sooner than you think! :hi:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. I'm sorry to hear about your friend...
it's a tragic tale. I have friends who are into the same type of lifestyle. They do it for the thrill, and when I listen to them talk about it, they sound no different than Timothy Leary 40 years ago telling everyone that dropping lots of acid was the key to a good life. I've known heroin junkies who behaved much more responsibly than some of the adrenaline junkies do.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
62. Everything We Do Is Risky
Driving a car is risky.

Eating is risky.

Sex is risky.

Getting on a boat is risky.


Humans die everyday, by means extraordinary and mundane. More people die by mundane traffic accidents than by climbing mountains. Hikers generally take far more precautions.

Learning to live with loss from failed risks is preferable to taking none, IMO.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. While "mountain climbing" isn't my thing,
hiking used to be, when I was in better shape. I don't just love mountains; I find them necessary for mental health. If I can't see a mountain, I'm depressed. I'm at my happiest up there somewhere looking down, whether it's from a trail or a cabin.

I appreciate mountain climbers, even if I'm not one of them.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I can be real happy just looking up at them, too
I know just what you mean, Lwolf.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. GREAT Post ...
And I am glad you took the time to lay it all out ....

The recriminations against these fellows were brutal here, but I think it is obvious that they simply ran into some awfully bad luck .... ONE mishap, in this case James apparently breaking his arm, was all it took to doom these men ....

They paid the ultimate price for that run of bad luck ....

Whether others understand or not the attraction of a hard climb in winter, YOU have given a basis for seeing into what transpired, above the treeline AND the anger ....

Thanks for that
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Thank you!
I appreciate your nice words, Trajan. I'm not an expert in all aspects of it, but I've hiked enough mountains to know the basics and hopefully can pass some of that on.
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think you may be underestimating Mt Hood a bit..
Logistics:
Mt. Hood is a technical climb. There are no trails leading to the summit. Only climbers in good physical condition who have received technical training and with complete mountaineering gear should attempt this climb.

http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/2483/hoodguid.htm

While it certainly isn't as difficult a climb as, say, Mt Rainier, the average summit attempt involves an overnight stay on the mountain as well as crevasses, steep climb areas and unpredictable weather. More info here:
http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_Climbing_Hood.htm
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I've never hiked Mt Hood, but from what I've read it isn't a technical climb
unless you hike up certain harder faces of it.

However, it can be a dangerous one at any time of the year if you do underestimate it.

Technical climbs involve gear to get up certain steep parts whereas non-technical climbs only involve normal hiking apparel and walking up on your own two feet without the aid of things like ropes to get you up. Ropes are usually only used on Mt Hood for keeping people together in the event of blowing snow so no one gets lost. Things such as crampons on your feet don't make a hike technical. Neither does staying in a cabin or physical condition. You need to be in physical condition to hike up mountains, period.

But yes, you can pick any mountain and find a side or face of it that you can tackle with technical gear if you want to. The normal routes, though, don't require it. Anyway, I won't underestimate Mt Hood if I ever hike it. I'll research it to the fullest if I ever have the good fortune of getting out there to do it. Thanks for the input.
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. No problem..
was trying to find a way to put that without coming off like a complete dick brcause your OP was by and large spot on..
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Thanks, that lends a bit of perspective.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
50. An update from my daughter about Mt Hood
She just got home for the holidays to visit us and she told me her boyfriend has hiked Mt Hood a couple of times when he used to live in Oregon. While it's not a climb that might normally require ropes, chains, and pins to get up, or other technical gear, other than crampons and a common ice axe, she did say that her boyfriend told her that lots of hikers do underestimate Mt Hood. What happens there is that you can drive way up to a fairly high elevation and get out at one of the camps and use that as a starting point. She said that when you first arrive there and look out at the summit that it looks way easier to do than it actually is because it seems like it's right there in front of you, just for the taking. However, she said that once you're up there closing in on the summit, it becomes harder than it previously looked from the starting point and that it takes more of an effort than it looked like from the camp, and how the weather up there on Mt Hood can switch from being nice to being vicious in a short amount of time, taking some inexperienced people by surprise. She said Mt Hood is nothing to mess with if you're not a real seasoned hiker.

Getting back to the Mt Hood hikers in the news, however, these guys knew what to expect, but either they couldn't see the extent of the weather approaching them because they were on the face that blocked them from seeing it coming, or something else happened that we don't know all the answers to yet. Plus they were climbing on the more hazardous face, too. Very unfortunate the way the whole thing played out.

Thank you for those links, btw. I enjoyed them.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you
Edited on Fri Dec-22-06 08:40 PM by cwydro
I spent 10 years in the Appalachians...much more forgiving terrain than the Cascades perhaps. My sister and I loved to cross country ski up nearby mountains. One day, after skiing UP for 5 miles...we got to the top and drank a bottle of wine. We smoked a doobie too. We were young and invincible. It got cold and nasty fast at the top and we actually talked to a ranger who suggested we head down. We did eventually, but to this day I remember that descent. I am certain I was experiencing hypothermia (I sweat heavily and this was before the wicking products of today). My sis was fine; she doesn't sweat like I do. Nevertheless, we had a wakeup call on that expedition..we could easily have died...no one knew we were there. No cell phones in those days (early 80's). We knew we were in a danger situation; we both kept falling (not the wine, lol, we were used to that)but we were freezing...we spent too long enjoying the view at the top. Obviously, we made it back. Ironically, my sis is a ranger in CA now. Oh, and she has no problem with rescues, btw.

Another experience I had as a caver. Long dark story. Very scary. Maybe another thread. But I hope people realize how quickly things can go bad. Mother Nature does not mess around. But those of us who go out to have adventures and live life...don't judge...until you walk a mile or so in our boots (or skis).
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. That's an amazing post. What an experience that must have been
I can definitely relate to all that you're saying. The time when we got into trouble on top of that Adirondack Peak with the severe whiteout conditions, we were underprepared. Things might happen in the future, but I'll never be underprepared like that again.

The hypothermia thing is really scary. When I hike I have the same problem as you, the sweating thing. Lots of people do. Even in winter, I'm gonna be sweating my butt off on the way up, so it's extremely important NOT to wear anything made of cotton or you could die. Synthetics or wool are an absolute must in spring, fall, or winter. BTW, most hypothermia deaths are just as apt, if not more so, to come in spring or fall as opposed to winter. In spring or fall lots of inexperienced hikers set out in the wrong clothes and get stuck in a cold rain far from the trailhead. It's the cold rainy transition seasons that do the damage. If you get wet and you've got cotton on, the wet cotton will suck the heat right out of you, while synthetics will still insulate you even when wet.

If you decide to post your caver story, please PM me so I don't miss it. Thanks!

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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. Yeah, being prepared is so important
No mountains or caves where I am now, here in the Keys...so I go out kayaking and canoeing. My friends laugh at the items (warm clothing) I have in my dry bag; usually the weather is not too dangerous around here. But I have seen how fast a storm can come up- and that calm friendly ocean becomes another beast entirely. I have ridden out a few storms huddled in the mangroves, thanking my forethought in bringing storm gear. Even in south Florida, you can get damn cold real quick when the rain and wind comes. Always have extra water and some kind of food even when I only plan to be out a couple hours. Getting ready to go out today as a matter of fact, the sea is like glass. However, I know a front is aproaching so I'll be keeping an eye on the sky.

Happy adventuring!
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
36. Did you get stuck in a cave?
I used to go spelunking with the Boy Scouts. Generally involves
passages you have to crawl through, in the mud, and only people
of a certain size can make it!

Oh yeah, K & R...
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Yes, I've crawled in a lot of mud in my day...
many of the caves were flooded inside too. I am fairly small and often could get in some really tight squeezes. I actually led some Boy Scouts through my favorite cave once. I was an Outdoor Adventure leader at my college and so actually got PAID to go spelunking. Man, I miss those days. I'll post that caving story after I get my sis' permission. It involved her and in retrospect she was embarrassed. Suffice it to say, I was already composing in my mind how I would tell my parents I had gotten their youngest killed. We had some serious good luck in those days...got out of scrapes we never should have got into in the first place.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. They climbed the north face of Mt. Hood
This is no casual hike, especially in December.

I agree with most of your take, and I have climbed Mt. Hood myself.

Like most, I climbed the south face. It's relatively straightforward, when I climbed (in May) I had an ice axe and sturdy boots and whatnot.

Climbing the much steeper north face in December is a much more serious endeavor, particularly given the weather forecasts they surely must have known about.

These were guys who had climbed Denali (20,000+ feet) and Mt. Rainier many times (14,000+ feet), and in the Andes (18,000 feet), so no one questions their experience. But they made the fatal mistake of underestimating Mt. Hood.

Hood is just over 11,000 feet, so surely it's a piece of cake, right?

No.

There were 100 MPH winds around the time they reached the summit with blizzard conditions. The north face is very steep, with 2,500 foot cliffs. In the Cascades, storms can bring more than ten feet of snow in just a couple of days.

While I don't 'blame' them as some do, guys with their level of experience should have bailed before they got in so deep. All the warning signs were there.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Thank you for that info. What a great post!
Yeah, when I heard about those 100 MPH winds, my heart sunk for those guys.

Hey, I really appreciate the detailed information you gave about the difference between the north and south faces of Mt Hood. I was wondering about that.
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent Post! Not boring at all.
A very good and entertaining read.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I really appreciate that
I wasn't sure if anyone would be able to get through the whole post. Thanks!
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. An ignorant question I'm sure but I've always wondered if it were possible for climbers
to take along some kind of GPS signalling device, something like they put on blackboxes so if they were incapacitated or lost or something, they could still be found. Does anyone know if that kind of technology is available or even desired? It seems like it would be common sense....


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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. You can rent a radio locator beacon for about $5/day. nt
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Personal locator beacons are available for purchase or rental.
The Oregonian
Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Mountain Locator Unit could have helped two climbers
Rescuers say a Mountain Locator Unit could have made all the difference for at least two of three missing climbers on Mount Hood.

The units were created after nine students and adults from an Oregon Episcopal School field trip died in 1986 as they huddled in a snow cave or ventured out in a snowstorm in search of help. Searchers came within 15 feet of their snow cave the day before they were found.

The units are worn on a sash across the chest and are relatively light, said Steve Rollins, president of Portland Mountain Rescue. They can be rented for as little as $5 at mountain shops, including REI, Oregon Mountain Community and the Mt. Hood Inn at Government Camp. The inn is open 24 hours.

"So you can walk in at 2 a.m. in the morning to rent one if you want," Rollins said.

Rollins said the units, which were made specifically for Mount Hood, could have made all the difference in the search so far for Brian Hall and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, who dug their injured or exhausted friend Kelly James a snow cave and sought help.
http://www.oregonlive.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/print214894.html
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. A valid question, but it would not have helped ....
By the time rescuers could reach them, James had already expired (most likely) ... And the other two were apparently blown off the face by the fierce winds ..... AGAIN, before rescuers could get to them ...

The locators would help find their bodies faster ... but I dont think there was any chance of getting to them before the weather died down, and by then, it seems nature had already taken it's awful course ....

Just knowing where they were wasnt enough, not in the conditions they were in ...
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
44. Not to be too ghoulish but I would want the body back if possible if one of them were my family..
And if the SAR team could locate those three guys faster, dead or alive, it would mean less resources would have been utilized in the search, less exposure to danger for the rescuers as well.

I agree that the conditions appear to have doomed them quickly.... :(

A further question to you and/or any other experienced climbers, would carrying such a beacon somehow diminish the "experience" of the climb, having that kind of "safety net"? They don't appear to be too heavy but in my limited climbing experience (:blush: see personally embarrassing story below) I can see how any extra weight might give one pause.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. As to your question
would carrying such a beacon somehow diminish the "experience" of the climb, having that kind of "safety net"? They don't appear to be too heavy but in my limited climbing experience ( see personally embarrassing story below) I can see how any extra weight might give one pause.


Great question and a hard one to answer. It depends on the situation and the hiker. Take GPS units for example. When GPS units became smaller and a viable option for hiking, most "purists" scoffed at them. However, they scoffed at them not because of their capability, but because of their limitations. Many GPS devices don't work well under heavy foliage (tree canopy of the forest) where most SAR operations take place. Having a "safety" device like this could very well lead to inexperienced hikers taking all kinds of unnecessary risks because they'd almost think they were immortal with one of the divices. If all hikers carried a map and compass (I'm not talking about the Mt Hood case), and they knew how to use them in conjunction with each other, there would be fewer SAR cases (BTW, a compass is of little use without a map). With GPS units, batteries are involved, some of them won't work at all when the temperature approaches zero, there's the heavy canopy thing in the forest, and there can be other problems, too.

Same with cell phones. The purists hated seeing anyone on a cell phone during a hike a few years ago. Now cell phones are more acceptable, as long as one only uses it for emergency and not for chatting with someone when on the trail. Still, many cell phones won't get coverage out in the middle of no where.

I would imagine that for the more riskier hikes, that even the purists will break down and start carrying the PLB's (personal locator beacons) in the future. It only makes sense, as long as it doesn't give one the sense that he or she is invincible because of it. People need to be cautious, and some of the safety devices like this can cause inexperienced hikers to take risks they ought not to.


Bottom line, yes, the device would diminish the experience somewhat, but down the road, I imagine people will weigh one option over the other to make their decision. Once people get more used to an idea, the experience will be deminished all the lesser and lesser, though.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. That's a great queston. Anyway, what Trajan said, & here's a link to PLB devices
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/3382

One thing to keep in mind, though. PLB (personal locator beacon) devices might not be effective under dense foliage like you often encounter in the Adirondacks because the trees cover is so dense that the signal might not get through. Most people who get lost get lost in dense cover. On an open summit or above treeline, they'd be a cynch to work.

Thank you for asking that. I'm going to look more into it now just because of your question.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Heh. Okay personally embarassing mountain climbing story ahead
I went to a total immersion spanish language school in Guatemala for a month (loved it, pm me if you want more info). They would have weekend excursions and activities designed to immerse a student further into politics or the culture or environment or whatever your interests were. So they had a day trip up a 10k mountain adjacent to Santa Maria (a volcano) near Quetzeltenango. I never in my wildest dreams thought this was any kind of "climb".

So I arrive at the 4 am start replete with 2 bottles of water and a couple of granola bars, in my sneakers, sweatshirt and an attitude. I'm 40 right, and fit! Everyone else is maybe 20 and waaaaayyyy more rigged up than me. So we start the hike: 10k up in a day, and back down again.

Shit.

I will tell you, thank god for some recently discharged Israeli army soldiers who were so fit they could literally haul me up some of those crevasses. I am embarrassed in retrospect but they got this old woman up that hill dammit. The view was unbelievable. I had forgotten to even bring a camera so I was grateful that the South American woman snapped some shots of me there, and developed them the next day, and gave me prints, or I never would have proof of the day. There were more than a few single young guys timbering the region and I hate to think of my fate as an American left behind on a mountanside in Guatemala..... IMHO, there is at least a 50/50 chance those workers would have left a woman alone on the trail for several hours or perhaps not, American policy has been particularly brutal towards Central America.

I live in Illinois which is dead flat. I perceive myself as fit via walking several miles daily, but that mountain damn near defeated me! What a trip. I have been eternally tolerant of climbing stories ever since. You just don't know what you are getting into on any given trip. It's all a crap shoot and you may have helpers and sometimes you are shit outta luck. I had some angels with me on my trip, clearly these climbers did not.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Remember in my post where I said your first one should be a small one?
haha, it doesn't matter how fit you are if you haven't done it before. 10K is a huge task when going up a mountain for your first time. The thing is, and this I mentioned, too, it's part mental. In fact, I swear it's mostly mental going up. If you go into it thinking that it's basically a walk in the park and that 10K is just a matter of time, then your brain just isn't gonna be prepared for the effort it actually takes to walk up the side of a mountain, even if its on a well established trail. Someone could be in their early 20s, in great shape, but if it's their first time hiking and they go a little too fast at first, they'll burn out before they're half way up and then struggle the rest of the way, all because they didn't have the right mindset going in.

The first mountain I did was only one mile on the way up. Because I thought it was just a matter of walking up a trail, I totally underestimated the effort it would take. I started a little too fast and because I wasn't in good aerobic shape at the time, I thought that little mountain was gonna kill me. Had to stop every few minutes. But when I got to the top and saw the view, I couldn't believe it my eyes. I couldn't believe I actually made it all the way either. Climbing that little mountain was a wake up call to me that I wasn't in as good aerobic shape as I should've been. I was hooked, though, and went back and got the rest of my family the following week and took them up that same mountain. This time my mind was more prepared for the kind of walk it was and we went slower and enjoyed it more.

BTW, whenever hiking in a large group of any kind, you're supposed to go as fast as the slowest hiker. That trip of yours in Guatemala sounds like it was a real strenuous one, but must've been beautiful. Kudos for making it up there one way or the other!
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
34. Calculated risks
should take into consideration other people. Those who rescue people stranded on a winter climb are risking their safety and lives - did you see the rescuers on Mt. Hood in the blizzard? A few years ago a helicopter carrying rescuers crashed on Mt. Hood. They all survived but were injured.

Seeing Kelly James' son's face during the week was heartbreaking. His fear and pain was palpable.

If those three men could come back to life - having seen the grief of their loved ones - I am sure they would say it was not worth it.

I guess we do not agree on this issue.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. I don't think you understand the pull that the mountains can have
I doubt if they would stop climbing, I doubt if their friends would and I doubt if any of the SAR people who searched for them will. Most climbers will stay in the sport for as long as they physically can. I've done technical ice, alpine and rock for 35 years and if I can rehab my shoulder I'll be back at it again.
We know the risks we know the consequences, but its something we have to do.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Well said.
Thank you. And many happy adventures!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. I agree with you more than you think about hurting others, but you have to realize
Edited on Sat Dec-23-06 10:13 AM by mtnsnake
that Kelly James and his friends never thought they were going to risk hurting ANYONE when they set out, not even themselves.

I've sometimes thought how awful it would be if someone got hurt because of something that happened to me out on a mountain trail, but anyone who knows me or any other avid hiker would never want me or them to stop hiking because of some rare possibility that something drastic could go wrong. The thing is, if you love doing something enough, ya gotta do it or you're not going to feel fulfilled. There are risks in almost everything, many of them bigger than the risks most mountain climbers take. You just have to be as careful and cautious as possible, and smart. When my wife and I go on a hike, we plan it carefully and we don't mess around. We take as much of the risk factor out of it as possible. If you knew how many people hike up mountains, you'd see that the percentage of serious mishaps is very small.

I don't rock climb or ice climb, so the risks I take aren't like that. Most climbers don't bushwhack either, although some do. Bushwhacking is when you hike off trail, and it's way harder and easier to get lost. Most people hike on established trails. However, even on those, you have to be real careful, especially in winter. If a sudden squall comes up, the wind can easily blanket the trail and the tree markers in a short matter of time. That's why it's best to get off a mountain at the first hint of bad weather or high winds, although if you're extremely prepared, you can easily winter camp on a mountain with the right equipment. I'm not into winter camping, btw.

For sure the Mt Hood climbers had something go terribly wrong. Most times when search and rescues are involved, it's because of human error, like inexperienced hikers not bringing headlamps and getting stuck out after dark...or, in the case of experienced hikers...taking one chance too many that they shouldn't have taken...and paying with their lives. In the mountains, you just can't take chances, ever.
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La_Fourmi_Rouge Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
35. It is a mythical journey to the Godhead.
These fellows died in a noble pursuit.

As I have said before, do we blame Phillippe Petit because he endangered the astonished onlookers, and put the coroner at risk of dealing with a very messy cleanup? Is he a great and admirable figure only because he was successful?

Or is he heroic for the attempt alone?
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
41. Thanks for the post. My only attempt to climb to the top of a mountain occurred
Edited on Sat Dec-23-06 10:24 AM by sinkingfeeling
when I was already over 40. My sister, brother-in-law, son, and I climbed to a chalet in Glacier National PArk. It's located at about 6000 feet and think the trail was like 7.5 miles to get there. I loved it! Passing by the mountain goats and watching them run and jump on the nearly vertical sides of the mountain was great.

A few years later, we all were at Mr. Rainier in the spring. It was T-shirt weather in Seattle and when we arrived at the lodge at Rainier, there was a foot of snow on the ground. My son insisted that we walk to the base of the mountain, so I tromped through the snow in my tennis shoes for a couple of miles and then said we should go back. He wanted to go farther. He was about about 28 or 29 at the time. So, he went on..above the treeline...totally unprepared for hiking or climbing! He took some great pictures from an alpine meadow and some of an artic fox. However, by evening, he hadn't returned and as a mother, I started to get really worried.

It was about supper time when we heard that their were several climbers trapped near the summit and rescue groups started to show up at the lodge. A while later, when all the TV crews set up, they blew the power at the lodge. Just as the rescuers started out, my son came back to the lodge. He was fine but had been wading around in snow in a pair of loafers! I almost couldn't speak to him that night.

The next day, we knew that 5 roped together climbers had been pushed off the side of the mountain by an avalanche. One died as he dangled under icy water running down on top of him. That was June 11, 1998.

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. That's an amazing story.
I'm really sorry what happened to those poor climbers in that avalanche. Thank goodness your son was alright. I can't believe he was messin around up there in loafers! Most people, if they've never done it before, really have no idea how different things can be between what they see at the base of the mountain and what they encounter near the top when it's winter. Nobody should ever climb a mountain in winter until they have some experience doing it in one of the warmer seasons, and even then, they should only do it if they're prepared for that.

Thank you for posting. I can relate to how you felt when you thought your son was missing and the feelings of exhilaration you must have had when he appeared at the lodge. In the case I alluded to in my OP, I was dreading in my mind what might have happened to my kids on that icey windblown summit. My buddy and I both went in different directions looking for them in the whiteout, almost freezing ourselves in the process. I went the wrong way and was constantly turned back by sheer walls that I coudn't get up, but I couldn't see more than a few feet in front of me to see how steep it was. My buddy, the other father, lucked out and went the way people were supposed to, and he found our kids sheltered behind a rock wall. They had the smarts to stay put and to stay together. Anyway, when I saw him appear right in front of me out of the blizzard, with the 4 kids in tow behind him, it was the most relieving moment of my life. We headed for treeline and when we got to the trees we counted our blessings. Thinking something has happened to your kid is the worst feeling possible, isn't it.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
47. Don't people know about the horrible storm here?
I was shocked to see people disparaging these guys...
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Apparently, some people
don't realize that weather reports aren't always accurate to the nth degree. Some people literally blamed these guys for not following the weather, when that isn't necessarily the case. Anyone should know that sometimes storms can turn out to be way way worse than any weather station reported, especially in the mountains where things can get magnified many times over and where the mountain can sometimes make its own weather system within itself that no one can predict. Sometimes, the best that can be done is simply looking out at the horizon and turning back if things get looking ominous. This storm sounded like a particularly bad one, and they might not have had time to turn around, considering an injured companion and how fast the storm might have come in.

The only way that these hikers should've gotten disparaged is if they did not heed a forecast of a storm of this magnitude. I doubt they knew, and I doubt they got the kind of forecast of just how bad that storm was going to be...in time for them to do anything about it but try to ride it out. I don't know of a hiker anywhere who would ignore such a forecast if one was indeed made that predicted the magnitude of the storm that was about to hit them. People need to give these guys more credit. Sometimes a rare combination of events leads to tragedy. Then again, sometimes someone, even a seasoned pro, takes more chances than they ought to and it costs them dearly. We might not ever know what actually led to their demise unless one of them is found with a written account of what led up to them getting caught up there.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. No local in his right mind would have attempted the Cooper Spur
Edited on Sat Dec-23-06 08:58 PM by depakid
route, given the weather pattern we'd been having.

Also, you do need crampons all year round, even on the easiest south face route, and all but the most experienced climbers had better rope up on portions of "the hogback," and know how to self arrest. There's a spot about 150 yards or so from the summit that's particularly treacherous and "exposed."

Get there too late in the morning, and snow gets mushy, especially in the late spring & summer. I can easily see the unwary going right off that knife edge.

The trouble is (and this applies to mountaineers everywhere) people plan a trip (sometimes travelling considerable distance) so they somehow feel "obliged" to carry out their plans, despite the probable weather conditions- which they may or may not be prepared for. Or inquired locally about.

Interestingly enough, photos recovered from a camera in the snow cave showed that these guys- as experienced as they were, were WOEFULLY unprepared for even one of our "milder" winter storms, which under the current weather pattern, come in quickly, one right after another- and easily last a week or more, without much or any break.

Apparently they packed fairly light, anticipating a bivy and quick traverse, with drinks for all at Timberline lodge. That was hubris- and even if you're Reinhold Messner- it can cost you fingers and toes- or your life.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Yeah, I heard that they packed for a "quick trip" up
Edited on Sat Dec-23-06 08:59 PM by mtnsnake
I'm sure that when all is said and done, it will be likely that human error might have played a role. It often does. Thank you for the detailed insight into Mt Hood. Great post, depakid.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
49. kick
again.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
54. base weather & peak weather
on scottish mountains, i've experienced the huge anomaly from base to peak. I've left the base
with what i thought was too much gear, and arrived at that final peak slope to discover that i
was geared up right for ultra-high winds, and near-zero visibility.

The clouds can drop down on to any peak any time, no matter what a weatherman says... and then
you're in a pickle. I only chimed up to your post, as i too have experienced very dangerous conditions
on arriving at the peak, and a coupla years back was 1 step away from sure death as i was about to
walk off a 1000 foot cliff in zero visibility as my directions got mis-wired. In the foggy
abyss, i couldn't see the ground and just stopped dead still, bent down with my hands to feel
the ground... was none... i was standing vertically on a clifftop that i never would have
walked near had i been able to see.

I hope persons consider getting a little orienteering training before hitting a winter slope as well. I found my way off that peak in zero-vis using a map and a compass only. This happened on a day when the weather
looked just dandy, and as i arrived on the peak slope, the clouds just dropped down like a frozen hammer.

Were i being super-safe, i should have roped-in with my fellow climbers just for ice-sliding and whatnot.
I should have taken the GPS unit out of the glove box with me, a mobile phone, and a rescue strobe.

We get so insulated to the intensity of mother nature by television, when we see film actors defeating
all weather-odds to win the day, we get sloppy and arrogant with the great lady... and then she shows us
her teeth.... white and razor deadly.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Wow, my stomach was in my throat just reading your post. Amazing stuff!
I can't imagine how you must've felt, reaching down to touch the ground and finding none there. Yikes! After my experience on that Adirondack peak, I can sure relate to the kind of weather conditions you experienced. There was a moment after my buddy, myself, and the 4 kids got back together that we couldn't even see down the open face to where our wives were waiting because we couldn't see more than a few feet in front of us. We started inching in what we thought was the way back to the trail, and then things cleared just for an instant, just long enough for us to make a beeline to where the trail met the open summit down below and where our wives were waiting. If it hadn't cleared, I was thinking at the time that I wouldn't even be able to use my compass because my hands were that cold and I don't think I could've held my map in my hands the way the winds and snow were blowing, let alone see it. It's easy to read about using a map and compass, but to actually do it when your hands are almost frozen and under high velocity winds and 50 below windchill is another thing.

You have a great style of writing, BTW. Thanks for your post!
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. Yes, the map
It took 2 of us to get the map out and folded to a position
that showed our position.. it pretty much ruined the map, but the
condition of the paper was not a big concern of ours at that moment. I never figured
i'd be using the map, given that i knew the peak well in light, and had i considered
to be using it, i probably would have packed it in a weather-bag folded just right.. but
such is hindsight.
I was mostly concerned that my orienteering was cracked up, and that
i was not mistaking my correction for magnetic north to the wrong side. At about 7 degrees,
to read it to the wrong side would have put me 15 degrees out and off another cliff.

Since then, i climb with a compass that is attached to my wrist like a watch. They
can save your life, and why risk dropping one when you're sighting with it. I should
have had a head-lamp. Though it was daytime, the cloud-fog made it barely light,
and my climbing partner used the flashlight on map with the sort of urgency one might
have... 'are you seeing it right this time!'.

One lesson that strikes me from mountain rescue training, and many rescue trainings, that
often the mistakes made after the first mishap are the ones that cost a life. Like a friend
falls down and gets injured, and in a panic, someone else falls trying to get to them... so
i deliberately went back up to the summit and took stock.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. What a story
and thank you for sharing it. Great post.
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. Thanks for your post.
I love reading all the different stories about people's climbs. I love to hike anywhere and if it's uphill all the better. I agree with what you said about hiking with your kids. You can really communicate on a hike. It is such a thrill for the senses, though. Everything is sharpened, especially at higher elevations. Smell, touch, sound, and sight! The colors are intense, and there's nothing like walking in a cloud ! I haven't had a good high country hike in a while and I so miss it. Great thread!

Hurricane Ridge, North Cascades, Washington State







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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-24-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Your welcome, and thanks for those mystical hiking pictures
Absolutely beautiful. Dreamy.

I agree with what you said about hiking with your kids


Yeah, once your kids get into their teens, it's sometimes hard to find activities that they still like doing with their parents. We still did a few rock concerts together, but of course the kids wanted to sit in seats far away from us. I don't blame them. With hiking, though, it's different. The kids don't mind sticking together with their parents on a long hike, and it's neat getting to the top together to enjoy the mountain and its view. Plus, it's not like they're going to run into a bunch of their friends from school on the trail and be embarrassed about being with their parents, lol. Now my kids are in their mid twenties, and hiking is still something we all look forward to doing together. My kids are both home this weekend for the holidays, and if it wasn't raining, we'd probably be doing a Christmas Eve snowshoe up one of our favorite little mountains an hour away in the Adirondacks. Thanks again for sharing those gorgeous pictures. Makes me want to get back on a peak ASAP.
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