How many right-wingers have ever read the Koran?

[BushOut06]

You always hear right-wingers making claims about Islam, saying stuff like "The Koran teaches it's okay for Muslims to lie", "Muslims have a duty to convert, enslave, tax, or kill everyone", etc. I wonder how many of these people have ever read the Koran? I'm guessing the number is virtually zero. Next time you come across someone making some outlandish anti-Islam claim based on the Koran, ask them where in the Koran they read that.

I have a personal copy of the Koran that I picked up at a thrift store awhile back, it's actually easier to read than the KJV Bible. Sure, there are things in the Koran that aren't exactly very pleasant - but then again, there are some pretty nasty things in the Bible as well.

[NoPasaran]

1. Plenty of 'em, in Iran

[originalpckelly]

3. Good point...

people always forget that Ahmadinthehead is a right-winger. That's also why it's preposterous to think we'd team up with him. Or hell even fucking al-Qaeda is a right-wing operation. You don't hear Osama Bin Forgotten talking about the inequity of straight/gay relations, now do you?

[BOSSHOG]

2. How many right wingers have ever read the bible?

They don't need to read the Koran, their handlers (fox, limbaugh, hannity, coulter, etc) will let them know what it says in the koran. It just boggles my mind how "christians" aren't out stoning to death people who work on the sabbath.

[havocmom]

4. To hear some of them talk, we KNOW they haven't read the Bible

If they take other's words for what happened, no wonder they believe FAUX

[BOSSHOG]

7. Mom's always right

[Parche]

5. bible

You beat me too it Boss!!! I was going to say the same thing.....

[BushOut06]

6. I think many athiests know much more about the Bible than many Christians

I've known several athiests who have read the entire Bible, and are quite well versed in Biblical history. It can be quite painful watching some Christian whose only knowledge of the Bible being what he's taught from the pulpit try to debate one of these athiests.

[BOSSHOG]

8. Absolutely

Atheists are intellectually curious. They want to know stuff. Alleged "christians" want to believe stuff. Holding the bible up to their heads isn't going to result in a data dump.

In an equally sad way, right wingers know damn near zero about what's in the constitution and yet they are the first in line for their "liberties."

[samfishX]

9. They can READ?!

That's news to me. The level of ignorance most of these right wing snakes display daily about...well...anything, really, would lead me to determine their IQ is roundabouts equal my shoe size.

[wtmusic]

10. In my humblest of opinions

the Koran is not as well-written as the Bible. It's not a narrative and parts are somewhat repetitive and frankly boring.

As an atheist I don't care for either from a philosophical standpoint.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Curious

have you read the Qur'an in its original Arabic, or only a translation? I ask because I know that there is a BIG difference in the style of different translations of the Bible, and a HUGE difference between Biblical translations and orginal texts in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic (no, I can't read them, but I've read scholarly papers on them and how the original texts compare to the different Bible translations).

[wtmusic]

15. You are way beyond me

No, I haven't so take that with a big grain of salt.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Ok

you may find some of the commentaries very interesting....wish I could give you full citations of sources....there's one fellow who recently came out with a book on how copying of manuscripts actually changed not only words but sometimes added whole stories to the Bible. Heard about it on Fresh Air a while back, but was commuting and couldn't write down the name.

You may find the works of Neil Douglas-Klotz interesting. He's a Sufi Murshid and scholar of Aramaic, Hebrew, and other ancient languages. His goal is to translate from ancient texts directly to English--and describe the process. Fascinating. He's done several books, including Prayers of the Cosmos, which focuses mainly on the Lord's Prayer and Beatitudes, as well as Desert Wisdom which looks at different aspects of living from different perspectives, including ancient Egypt, Canaanite, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic. He's also done a book on the 99 Names of God and the latest is about Genesis. Fascinating reading, if only to see how thought on that which is unknown has evolved over the millenia.

[wtmusic]

20. excellent

That is where I should be looking for an accurate comparison.

There was a fascinating review of a new translation from Latin of Virgil's Aenied in last week's NYT Book Review. It compared phrases of the new translation by Robert Fagles to those of a popular translation by Robert Fitzgerald. Big difference! This of the Trojan horse being rolled through the gates of Troy:

(Fagles)

. . . Everyone
Pitched in to get the figure underpinned
With rollers, hempen lines around the neck.
Deadly, pregnant with enemies, the horse
Crawled upward to the breach.

(Fitzgerald)

We breach our own ramparts, fling our
defenses open,
all pitch into the work. Smooth running
rollers
we wheel beneath its hoofs, and heavy
hempen ropes
we bind around its neck, and teeming with
men-at-arms
the huge deadly engine climbs our city
walls ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/books/review/Leithauser.t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. There are even DUers who haven't read the Qur'an

I have met some in discussions here; some have quoted passages out of context that they have found on the internet, passages that, without proper context, do not convey their intended meaning. If you click on my journal, you'll see a post I did a while back on this, citing sources. You may find it handy to use if you are confronted with "evidence" about Islam taken out of context.

I would encourage all DUers to take a look at not only the Qur'an but also who translated the copy they use. Yes, there can be a big difference in translation. Many US libraries carry copies given to them by Saudi Arabia, and I can assure you that these copies are translated with a fundamentalist Wahabbist slant. I prefer to use the Jusuf Ali translation, which is one that most Sufis I know use (Sufis tend to be progressive/liberal). I would suggest that both translations be read, and suras and verses be compared. It will give the average layman an understanding about Islam and how it is not a religion where everyone thinks the same.

[BushOut06]

12. True, but not many DUers use the Koran to slam Islam

At least, I haven't seen any posts like that.

Interesting point you bring up about the translations, I never would have thought about that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Sadly, we've had some

But at least DUers are willing to learn and have a dialog.

[MindPilot]

17. See for yourself at the Skeptic's Annotated Bible

Great site for cites; you can easily click between categorized passages and compare the Book of Mormon, the Koran and the Bible.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/preface.html

[slackmaster]

18. I know a few who have read it cover to cover

They generally conclude that Islam is a dangerous world view that encourages the killing of non-believers.

I have not read it BTW, but I have read the Holy Bible, Revised Standard Edition.

[CJCRANE]

19. The God of the OT and Koran

is the same God with the same personality. Just look at the link in the post above. I'm no expert but just from memory I know that the OT God punished Adam & Eve for seeking knowledge, vaporized two entire cities, struck down a skyscaper and flooded the entire world. He is wrathful God (although of course he can also be merciful at times).

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. Some passages in the Qur'an are historical in nature,

recounting some of the same stories found in the Bible. I find it interesting that every sura (chapter) in the Qu'ran, save one, begins, "In the Name of God, Who is Mercy and Compassion".

[0rganism]

30. You owe it to yourself to re-read the book of Job

It's amazing, really. On a "gentleman's wager" from Satan himself, God agrees to kill Job's family and servants, destroy Job's livelihood, burn Job's house, and inflict Job with horrible diseases. Of course, the point of the story is usually taken that because he never loses faith in God, Job gets returned to health and prosperity in the end, but the whole premise raises huge ethical questions with respect to Job's original family and servants.

[Az]

22. I have read it and it does not advocate killing infidels

It does advocate defending against infidels and if they start shit end it. Thats the problem though. Just what constitutes an infidel starting something. The extremists tend to interpret anything and everything as the infidels attacking them. But most Muslims do not see things in that extreme. As they live it the Koran leads to a very peaceful life.

Any religious text no matter how peaceful in context can be reinterpretated by its adherants to allow for killing the infidel. The bible has been sited in more than enough wars to show us this truth.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. Very wise words, Az

But then I've met your wisdom on several topics before :)

The passage most quoted as saying "kill the infidels" relates to an historic time when the Prophet and his followers were hold up in Medina. The pagans in Mecca had confiscated all their property and had withheld food from them. As I and others I know interpret the admonition, you can go to war ONLY if you are not allowed to practice your faith AND ALL OTHER POSSIBILITIES for getting along are exhausted. Even then, you aren't to kill non combatants, nor even harm their property. This kind of jihad (which means "struggle" and not "holy war" is called the "lesser jihad", and, though permitted, is not looked on with much favor--the "greater jihad", the struggle within yourself to tame the ego, is much more vital and important."

I encourage any who wish to read more about this passage to check my journal-I have an entry comparing some passages in the Qur'an given me from a rwing cite which I compared with my Qur'anic translation, including notes from the translator.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. An imam once told me you could sum up the Qur'an in the first chapter

which is called the Fatiha. It is very short, and is recited by Muslims several times a day in prayers. I'll give you a loose translation. Kindly tell me what in it could be perceived by Christians as a "dangerous world view":

In the Name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate
All Praise be to God, Master of the Universe!
Most Beneficent and Merciful,
Master of the Day of Judgement
Thee alone do we worship, and to Thee alone to we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
The path of those who follow Your ways,
Not those who anger or go astray.

[sniffa]

21. they can't read the koran

since, onLy cLean hands may touch the koran... and right wingers are fiLthy animaLs who eat from the same pLace they defecate.

[Rosemary2205]

23. NO American Muslims are conservatives or even Republican?

I bet there are plenty of Muslims in the Republican party.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. There were

before Bush started rounding up Muslim immigrants. Many Muslim immigrants are either professionals or businessmen, and many supported the GOP in 2000.

[TahitiNut]

24. I have two reputable translations and find it far more spiritual than either the OT or NT.

The perverted extracts taken out of context are appalling. The Old Testament is far more violent and divisive.

[deaniac21]

29. It's the christians and the bible that are athe problem.