Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

BBC: Healthy newborns killed in the Ukraine - for stem cells

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:43 AM
Original message
BBC: Healthy newborns killed in the Ukraine - for stem cells
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6171083.stm

This news is awful. I guess there is a flourishing stem cell market - international - and there is real evidence that healthy newborns are being killed for their stem cells.

This along with news of the millions of female infants aborted on killed at birth in India.

I feel like we are living in such dark, dark times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Mr. Gorbachev
tear down this wall!!!!

See what a wonderful society Reagan helped to create in the former Soviet Union? Sex trade and stem cell harvesting are the only profitable industries there now--but there aint' no more of them red commies, by gawd!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What the fuck are you talking about?
You are way, way off base.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. sarcasm get by you much?
I see I have to do a remedial posting...

but no, I'm not way way off base. You should educate yourself on conditions in the former Soviet Union before reaching for base profanity instead of a reasoned explanation as to why you think what I say is wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Blaming Reagan for crimes that occured in Poland...
...decades after he was in office and years after he died seems... a little farfetched. Or a lot farfetched. Or just silly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Poland? I thought the OP was about the Ukraine? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Poland? Who said anything about Poland?
Poland the the Ukraine are two different countries altogether.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Don't forget organized crime!
The Russian Mob is the crown jewel in Russia's prosperous new economy!

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, as long as they're not the Unborn, then you won't hear an
outcry from the wingnuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That is exactly what I thought.
Why don't those people put their energy where it might really do some good - like in the Ukraine.

I had no idea that stem cells were such a huge market. Where there is money awful things happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Actually, We Will
They will point to this and blame the people who want to do fetal stem cell research. They will say this is where we end up when we start relaxing morals. They will point to the diminished value of life in too our culture. They will counter-point - if you don' object to stem cell research on a fetus, why do you care if it is done a few weeks down the line in fetal development.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Excuse me! I'm no scientist, so...
feel free to dispute this, but I thought the definition of "stem cells" was that they occur in the embryo, before they have a chance to specialize, so to speak. At that time the cells can become cells from any organ etc. After the child is born, how could there be these non-differentiated cells?

This story smells. Anyone who can clear this up? As I said, I'm not trained in the life sciences, so maybe I have it all wrong. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. That was my first reaction too
Although you can find stem cells in umbilical blood, it doesn't require the death of the newborn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I agree that this story smells....
When they use the words "may have been" and "it could possibly be a result" it means this is speculation at this point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. You're right. It does smell like a pot-stirrer. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. these would no longer be 'embryonic' stem cells. just the kind of stem
cells every person has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. OK. Guess I'll have to research this further. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Yeah, sounds very psych-op'ish to me. Just like those Kuwaiti incubator
babies...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
32. If i am not mistaken any cells harvested would be no different...
the cells harvested from an adult's bone marrow.

They would be far less useful than core blood, embryonic or amniotic stem cells.

Recent studies are showing that the most useful stem cells may be those harvested from amniotic fluid.

If this story is true it is so disturbing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ah - the smell of the free market at work
Isn't it foul?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Can someone please explain
why a newborn's cells would be any different than adult stem cells? Embryonic cells come from blastocysts, not babies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. exacly. the article does not refer to 'embryonic' stem cells. My uneducated
guess is that is is easier to snatch a newborn??????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Story still makes no sense.
Parents could sell the cord blood without killing the baby. You can get stem cells from the placenta as well and from bone marrow.

There is absolutely no point in killing a baby.

It sounds like someone wrote the story who thinks "adult stem cells" refer to cells from adults rather than cells that have matured into a person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. documentation from Pat Robertson and Falwell?
No offense to the OP, nor necessarily the BBC, but something seems fishy about this story.... Even the less biased MSM can be duped sometimes.... :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree.
This story seems planted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. This story is bullshit
Newborn infants couldn't be harvested for fetal stem cells - they are no longer fetuses. You could, however, harvest adult stem cells from newborns, just as you can from any other human being. But there wouldn't be any reason to kill the newborn to harvest the cells.

The first place I saw this story was on a christo-conservative wackjob's news site, and I have my doubts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ToolTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. This is all BS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. This sounds like some science fiction movie plot
more than real life.

I agree that as I understood it, fetal stem cells were worth something but baby stem cells wouldn't be worth any more than adult stem cells. So I don't get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. I just looked at the Scotsman - this article is there, too. And people
there are questioning it.

I hope it is a plant. But life is so cheap in some places that it really could be true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. no it couldn't
New born stem cells are the same as yours and mine. It's the undifferentiated cells in the blastocyte that are different...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. Yes, it is true, and BatBoy is in charge!
Come on BBC, we expect better out of you.

Are you sure this wasn't from the World Weekly News or a Brazilian Fortean pub?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Yeah, or whitehouse.gov? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ukraine baby theft claims probed (another story from this page)--there
maybe be something to this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4189558.stm

Ukraine baby theft claims probed

Pregnant mother (generic)
The mothers of the babies were said to be all in excellent health
Harrowing reports of babies stolen at birth and human organ removal in an Ukrainian city are to be investigated by a top European political body.

The Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly is sending a rapporteur to Kharkiv as Ukraine's prosecutors delve into the cases of three mothers.

"People are afraid to even give birth now," Kharkiv campaigner Tatyana Zakharova told the BBC News website.

The main hospital under scrutiny has dismissed accusations against it.

Ruth-Gaby Vermot-Mangold, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (Pace) rapporteur, is to visit Maternity Hospital No 6 after her arrival on Monday and will meet local parents, Ms Zakharova and Ukrainian officials.

Her trip will also take her to the capital, Kiev, amid reports that babies may have been snatched at birth in other Ukrainian cities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. That is sickening. n/t
But remember all of those little children in those awful Romanian orphanages?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Snatched for organs, not stem cells.
Equally horrific but BBC needs to get it's info right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 16th 2014, 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC