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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:40 PM
Original message
You know why I love atheists?
They don't expect a Christmas gift!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. This atheist has given and gotten them
and doesn't see anything particularly religious about it. After all, the proper religious day to exchange gifts is January 6, Twelfth Night, when the Magi are supposed to have appeared with gold, frankincense and myrrh (but inexplicably no nappies or crib).
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lizerdbits Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. My family still does presents
for 'Atheists/agnostics/deists get and give presents day.' We also have pretty trees!
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. lol-- I'm an atheist and I don't do xmas-- I try to avoid the whole mess....
Bah humbug and yer little dog too!
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. me, too. i keep telling my family that i don't need any more stuff. eom
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry, what does Christmas have to do with religion?
I thought it was all gifts, food and pagan rituals.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. It is a pagan ritual.

Saturnalia was the feast at which the Romans commemorated the dedication of the temple of the god Saturn, which took place on 17 December. Over the years, it expanded to a whole week, up to 23 December.

The Saturnalia was a large and important public festival in Rome. It involved the conventional sacrifices, a couch (lectisternium) set out in front of the temple of Saturn and the untying of the ropes that bound the statue of Saturn during the rest of the year. Besides the public rites there were a series of holidays and customs celebrated privately. The celebrations included a school holiday, the making and giving of small presents (saturnalia et sigillaricia). . .

It was a time to eat, drink, and be merry.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Hippolytus disagrees
but whatever. Even if they had lifted the date and traditions I think there are one or two people who celebrate something else on that day.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. "Even if they had" - if? They did.
NT!

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. If only things were are cut and dry
as your prejudices have you believing. There is, as I hinted, some idea that the two borrowed from each other, and that there was a Christian import to the season beyond simply co-opting a fading empire's attempt to rejuvenate its culture.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Prejudices? Don't even attempt to read me; you're wrong.
It has nothing to do with prejudice, and everything to do with love of accuracy.

It was co-opted to make conversion of Roman pagans easier; this is a fact.

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. It's a "fact" because it serves your worldview
You've clearly not read anything that doesn't fall in line with it.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
59. Of course local celebrations were assimilated as Christiandom sprread.
It only makes sense.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Apparently you're prejudiced if you point that fact out.
:eyes:

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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. I think we're all oversensitve these day,thanks to Mr. Bush.
Myself included,but it helps to count to ten before hitting the "post message" logo.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Not just prejudiced, also historically ignorant.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Yes, you are. But you can change.
NT!

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. I do.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm an atheist and not only do I expect Christmas gifts, but Hanukkah gifts as well.
For every day!
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. I like that attitude
bring 'em on! :D
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Really?
I never heard of that. I thought it was the Season of Goodwill to all men!
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It is.
I have been sending an atheist friend of mine a card and gift for years. I didn't figure it out until last year that I may be offending him. The whole neocon environment has made him really outspoken. By the way, his family is Jewish.
This year I may just call.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Well
I'm not sure I can advise then, I don't know that many outspoken atheists.

I'm atheist/agnostic myself and I'm happy with the whole gift-giving idea.

However, I don't like the expense of it...

So I can imagine it might be a burden on your friend if he receives a gift from you but is not able to reciprocate either through habit or finances. I guess a "Season's Greetings" card might suffice in that situation.
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I never give with the expectation of receiving anything in return.
I don't recall if he has sent anything to me over the years. He is fairly well off in my book.
I usually sent sour wood honey from East Tennessee or homemade apple butter. One time it was bread and butter pickles. I like to surprise.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. if you send SEASONS GREETINGS
how could they get offended?

i send Yuletide greetings.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hungary: artistic impression 3.2
Techical Score: 4.05

It looks like this performance is definitely not medal worthy material folks - and the judges took off for the flubbed quadruple axel with the unintentional tsukahara.

Tough room dude.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Props for the costume, though, you must admit!
:rofl:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. yes WE DO!
And we usually give the best gifts as well. We don't cheap out on a card with praying hands and a plastic jesus statue. :sarcasm:
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Then why the hell was I just out Christmas shopping
I think I've got one for everyone, believers and non-believers alike. And I'm a non-believer and I hope Santa pays me a visit as well :D
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. If I was an atheist, I wouldn't buy anyone a gift.
It would be better to put it in my 401k.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That's some holiday spirit you've got there
Maybe we like buying presents to show people we love them? What do presents have to do with the religious side of Christmas anyway?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Why do you think an atheist would necessarily do that? n/t
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think you're missing the point
about cultural festivals.

Most cultures and religions have gift-giving ceremonies, it's a social thing not a faith-based thing.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. That wouldn't make you an atheist
Just a jerk.

:hide:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
55. Some people can't handle atheism. Better they stick to religion.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm an Atheist and to Tell you the Truth
the secular "Happy Holidays" stuff kind of gets on my nerves. I prefer Christmas cards showing nativity scenes or stained glass windows.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. I won't even accept one. Nor do I give them. I tell 'em, "It's Jesus' birthday, not yours!"
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Gifts are fine. But you don't have to say "Bless You" when I sneeze...
because there is no chance that my imaginary soul will escape my body if an imaginary god doesn't intervene.

Instead, I should say "excuse me," because I've just spread real germs all over the place near you.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Another reason.... if I am correct that there is an after-life I get to gloat....
but if they are right I will never know it.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. If there is an after-life where you GET to "gloat"....
I don't WANT to be in it.

Pfffllltttt.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. If you're wrong, you'll have missed out on a ton of Sunday fun that
atheists enjoyed. It could be like going to college for four years and then finding out the damn thing isn't accredited!
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. Not so
:toast: It's a great tradition for us, nothing to do with religion.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. You know why I like Christmas?
Because when you get right down to it, it has very little to do with "God" or Christianity.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm an atheist who put up his X-mas tree last night.
And tomorrow night, we're going to a fellow atheists X-mas party. And, we'll be staying overnight, because we won't be anywhere legal to drive home.

Any reason to socialize with good friends is alright by me.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
66. There ya go..
... I'm not a Christian but Christmas is fine with me. I can enjoy the "real" spirit of the holiday without believing the whole thing.

December 25 was not Jesus's birthday anyway :)
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. I love them because they are God's children.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. LIKE HELL I DON'T
:rofl:
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. The atheist I love is a green-eyed blonde
Been with her 28 years and we enjoy the hell out of the holidays. We sometimes buy gifts, sometimes not; sometimes put up a tree, sometimes not; sometimes send out Xmas cards, sometimes send out New Years cards; always have fun.


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Pyrzqxgl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Why don't atheists believe in Santa Claus either?
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liberalEd Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. Santa Claus = God with training wheels
Edited on Sat Dec-16-06 12:56 AM by liberalEd
Gets the kiddies into "magical thinking" early on.

(edited for spelling)
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Hey, Christmas is secular now!
We can all enjoy the pleasures of the mall!
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
37. ever heard of a secular Xmas? I have
My family always celebrated a secular Xmas.
No nativity scenes.

I'll celebrate any holiday that comes along: Xmas, Hanukkah, Saturnalia, Solstice, Kwanzaa, Chinese New Year, Bastille Day, Buddha's Birthday, you name it....any excuse for a party.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
38. Heh, but we DO expect - and give - them for Giftmas.
:)

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. I love them because they're cool.
:)

The atheists I have known have come to their stance based on a lot of thought, research, and conversations with people of many faiths. They tend not to have been raised that way and instead have made a full choice in and of themselves. That's cool. Isn't that what we are all supposed to do? Yet, how many of us really choose our own path and instead go with what's familiar or what first hits us as good instead of sticking with the search to really make sure.

Christmas gifts are for everyone, regardless of faith, unless someone doesn't want one. It's a dark time of year to remember our blessings and to share out of our blessings, with those we love, with our brothers and sisters around us, and with everyone we can.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. Silly. Xmas has NOTHING to do with the birth of Christ
First of all, he was born in the Spring.

Second, Xmas is a pagan holiday that's been around a lot longer than jeebus, dealing with the winter solstice and pagan rituals.

And dammit, i want my pagan ritual present!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. (Tapping foot rapidly) DHL better be delivering my Chanukkah gift
after hours, ya hear me?

Y'all already forgot my Divali Omaha Steaks and my Ramadan pork rinds ...
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'm an atheist and I want my damn gifts, ya sonovabitch.
Edited on Fri Dec-15-06 09:20 PM by Marr
:)

I give gifts and receive gifts and enjoy the dinner and the tree and the whole thing.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
46. The hell we don't!
Fork it over, el cheapo! :hi:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. But they might expect a solstice gift!
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
48. I am a big gift giving and gift getting freak
Its one of my fave holidays. See this War on Tolerance thing has made people forget that this time of the year in northern climates has always been a time of gathering for friends and family. Gift giving/getting is not a religious thing. Its a social thing.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
49. This Atheist likes a occasional gift, but I really like giving
gifts.

Bigendian? Have anything to do with the Macintosh?
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. No.
Jonathan Swift.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. OK thanks
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. Two questions:
Do you still believe in Santa Claus?
(If no) then do you still enjoy Christmas?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
53. many Atheist celebrate Christmas in a cultural sense
the tree, gifts, food , decorations, music etc.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
54. ...because we're hung like the Budweiser Clydesdales?
Edited on Sat Dec-16-06 04:43 AM by impeachdubya
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
58. How very oxymoronic,...
Christian exclusionism is. :eyes:
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