I am a smoker

[The Straight Story]

Is it something I want to bandy about as being proud of? No, not really. But I wanted to 'clear the air' on a few things.

I am 41, and have know many many smokers over the years.

And while you may disregard my own personal data, here it is:

Non-Smokers I have known/been related to:

Little Nanny (a grandmother): died at 71
Big Nanny: Died at 70
Scott (F = friend/Neighbor): died at 27
Brady (F): Died at 27
Brian (F): Died at 25
Blair (F): Died at 26
Marietta (F): Died at 54
Larry (F): Died at 65
Mr Schilling (F): Died at 65
Amber, Michelle, and about 6 other neighbors: Died between 25-37
X girlfriend's mom (rabid anti-smoker and health nut): Died at 53
X GF's two close friends: Died at 23 and 24 yrs old (left behind two wonderful kids)
Pat (Larry's wife) (F): 62
Brian K: Died at 36
Ray K: Died at 32
Ray's Brother (name escapes me): Died at 29
Cecil: Died at 39
X-wife: 41


Smokers I know who have died
mom: 70 (Kidney failure, she only had one)
Grandpa: 86 (my other grandpa died many years before I was born, and was not a smoker)
Mary: 71 (Pancreatic Cancer)
Barb: 69 (Diabetes and Heart problems, runs in the family)
Tom (Marietta's husband): 67 (from Pneumonia, after wife died he went within a year)
Uncle Peanie: 51 (Died of Leukemia)


Out all the people I know well and personally, about 2/3 of them are smokers and doing well.

The other 1/3 are non-smokers and doing well too. Though 2 of them have some form of cancer.

My sister, brother in law, and her kids are all rabid anti-smokers but see the doctor all the time for a plethora of problems - from asthama to thyroid issues and more. They spend a ton more on health care than I do.

So what is my point in all this?
In the last 21 years of my life I have known at least 22 people whom have died, folks I knew well over the years - and most all were not smokers. I have only known ONE person whose life has been made bad by smoking, my sister-in-law's aunt. And I am not even including all my other relatives.

yes - smoking can be bad for you. So can a lot of other things. Poor diet, lack of exercise, etc and so on can derail a life faster than a speeding bullet.

Focusing on smoking, imho, is sheer laziness and opportunistic flim flam.

I won't apologize for my choice of stress relief. And I won't promote it as the best way in life. But from where I sit the smokers have done better than the non-smokers.

Which means nothing other than - shit happens and we die.

This is YOUR life on this earth. Not mine to dictate to. It's your body. Your choice.

Whether or not you choose to smoke, or choose to have a big mac, is not my business. Not at home, not in your car, not at a bar - we all have free choice as to where we choose to go for a drink or food.

Far be it from me to tell you how to live your life and what your personal choices should be. Our freedoms were bought an paid for with the blood of our forefathers (and mothers).

Life leads to death. And your life is your own. Eat, drink, smoke, whatever. It is not my job to sit here and make you live your life my way, I will leave that to the damned fundies - and their 'one true way'.

I have had enough of death for one lifetime. And most of it had nothing to do with smoking. Most of it had to do with eating and living your life day to day.

Brady died from an accidental overdose of meds. Scott in a car wreck. Brian was a football player who had a heart attack, and he could bench press over 400 lbs and run the 1/4 mile in no time.

Most the healthy football players I knew in highschool are dead. Funny how the ones from then that smoke now are still alive and kicking (Jeff, Barry, John, mike, and many others).

Life sucks. Then you die. You don't smoke. You will still die. You smoke, you might die too.

Leave me alone, and let me live my life with my choices. You wanna judge me? Well, put your life out on the table and let me look at everything you do. Or just be lazy and focus on something you can easily see (ie, a cigarette) and ignore everything else.

Mom always told me: When it is my time, I will go - no matter what I have done good or bad on this earth.

It all ends the same way for each of us. Don't force me to live the life you want me to live, and I will give you the same courtesy. Else look out for the nannies who will discover that what you eat needs to be regulated, and that abortions and homosexuality will shorten your life span. Give em time, and they will find a financial reason to make you live the life they see as fit.

Shoot down this target today, and tomorrow there will be a new one. You and your choices.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Hear Fucking Hear And Preach On Brother!

[Hissyspit]

4. Like we need another fucking smoking thread.

[The Straight Story]

7. Like we need another obama or hillary thread either :)

But hey, thanks for the kick

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. You Did.

Or you wouldn't have come in here. If you had not needed another and had been satiated by those already existing, you would've ignored this thread. But the fact you came in anyway to bring the negativity shows that you did need another one to toss your opinions around in.

[Ellis Wyatt]

2. Be that as it may

you still stink.

[Fleshdancer]

3. I know several non-smokers who stink too

not smoking isn't exactly a get out of jail free card when it comes to how one smells.

[Ellis Wyatt]

18. exactly

And there are people who get lung cancer who have never smoked as well.

Not smoking won't prevent you from dying early, or getting cancer, or smelling like shit - and trust me smokers, you stink; your house stinks; your clothes stink - no matter how many hours it's been since your last cigarette.

But there can be no question that smoking increases your likelihood of all of the above.

Your perrogative, your life.

But realize how selfish you are if you support universal healthcare while you are willfully destroy your body and run up the rate of your healthcare expenses. Your small sample may not show that trend, but the CDC says that smoking adds $170B annually to healthcare costs (more even than obesity). If you want to smoke, that's fine. I won't even complain about your smell. It's your life. But your "stress relief" is costing me money. Period. That's selfish.

And realize of hypocritical you are if you rail against the evil, selfish rich, who complain about paying high tax rates to support the poor and unfortunate because they argue that it's their fault - the poor or fat or smokers or lazy or whoever, when you are a) acting just as selfishly and b) proving the rich peoples' case for them.

[Bake]

25. I smoke and I spell

I think you meant "prerogative."

Bake

[Ellis Wyatt]

80. yeah

because the spelling error is the most important part of the post.

piss off.

[Bake]

170. Note to self: Don't anger the Smoke Nazis.

Bake

[zreosumgame]

212. yep, lots of those kinds of PC-nazi types here

sad for a board supposedly to attract progressive people how many end up as petty and authoritarian as Crash-cart Dick or KKKarl...

[Bluebear]

370. :)

[Jed Dilligan]

179. No, the telling part is where you identify

the money that smoking-related healthcare costs as "yours."

[TankLV]

280. Ouch - somebody needs a cigarette or a drink!

Chill out brother!

[ellenfl]

103. i wonder how much obesity adds to the hc costs.

there are a lot more people who choose to be obese than people who choose to smoke. should the obese not be allowed to support universal healthcare either? perhaps if the medical community made it easier to quit smoking, more people would. the cost of smoking cessation aids is as high as the cost of diet aids.

i am not condoning smoking but i am addicted and it is not that easy to break that addiction . . . nor is help in doing so cheap.

what choices do you make? how's your cholesterol or blood pressure? do you eat right and exercise? are you totally free of bad choices? if you are not a saint about how you treat your body then perhaps you should use your words on yourself.

ellen fl

[Ellis Wyatt]

128. well

According to the CDC, it's $120B for "obesity" (http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/index.htm#econ ) and $180B for "smoking" (http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/economics/mm54... ).

And no, I don't smoke, my cholesterol is fine, my blood pressure is fine. Fortunate for me.

I understand that smoking is an addiction, but like any addiction, it's 100% your fault every time you smoke. No evil tobacco company is putting them in your mouth. Just stop smoking. Feel uncomfortable for a month or so as you quit smoking. The end.

People who are directly responsible for increasing the costs of healthcare, which makes it more difficult for those with little money, have zero sympathy from me. overeaters, smokers, etc. It's 100% your right to do whatever you want, obviously, but when the rest of society has to pick up the tab (universal healthcare) for your choices, then it's only fair that the rest of society has a say in what you do, correct?

[NanceGreggs]

222. I SWORE I'd never get involved in another smoking thread ...

... but I just wanted to set the record straight on this one issue you've raised.

I live in a country where there is universal health care - Canada. About seven years ago, the powers-that-be started using the "you smokers are costing all of us money" chant.

So they decided to crunch the numbers, in order to back up the statement. However, what they found was that the taxes collected on cigarettes per year was enough to completely cover the annual health care costs of every man, woman and child in the country -- three times over. That, needless to say, was the last time that argument was used in government 'quit smoking' advertizing.

Argue if you will about smoking or not -- but that particular argument doesn't hold water in countries that collect taxes on cigarettes at the same time they offer full health care coverage. One more than offsets the other.

[TahitiNut]

229. A similar, very extensive study was done by the Rand Institute in the US ...

... and found the exact same thing - and that was about 10-12 years ago, before even more tax hikes. Never let it be said that the truth got in the way of the tobacco Nazi's.

[Mythsaje]

240. Didn't realize you were a Canadian, Nance...

So I have another friend up North. That's nice to know!

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mythsaje]

271. With all due respect,

(or, perhaps, far, far more than is due) please don't presume to address Nance Greggs in that manner. She is one of the best writers on DU, and, for all you know, she's an American citizen living in Canada at the moment. And, even if she IS a Canadian citizen, she is a perceptive, erudiate, and oh-so-articulate observer of our society who has earned no end of respect from me, you, and everyone else who posts here.

[Tanner_B.]

303. I Have Much Less

respect for her now, regardless of nationality, since she can say anything on this site, while I have a post deleted for saying what I think of her.

The site is called "Democratic Underground," not "The O'Reilly Factor."

[ncrainbowgrrl]

306. This site also has rules regarding basic civility.

I suggest that you take another look at them before attacking other users or groups of users based on group characteristics- such as nationality, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

In addition, the rules also include not calling out the actions of moderators or administrators. If you have a post deleted, feel free to PM a moderator for that forum, should the reason for the removal not be immediately obvious, based on the rules of the site.

Thanks in advance for taking another look at the the rules.- http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

-ncrainbowgrrl
gd-p moderator

[NanceGreggs]

273. Actually, I'm not ...

I'm an American, born and raised in New York City and Long Island. I moved to Toronto with my first husband, when he was offered a job here.

[Mythsaje]

316. Six of one, half dozen of the other...

An American living in Canada is kinda Canadian.

[Name removed]

294. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seabiscuit]

322. Bottom line of this hypocrisy: YOU are not paying HIS health care costs.

HE IS!

And that is only for any real health care needs he has. None of which, apparently, have anything to do with smoking to date.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

327. Do I choose to be obese? Do I eat a lot? No I don't.

I've eaten like a bird my whole life. I've had my parents, teachers, grandparents, and in-laws get STARK RAVING MAD AND YELL at me for not eating enough. Or not eating the foods they wanted me to.

My thyroid is completely dead since I was 10 years old. I've taken thyroid extract since I was ten years old.

Some stupid doctor once took me off of it, and after five years off of it, I went to a doctor who told me I had one of the worst cases of myxedema (severe puffiness of face) he had evern seen. He even told me, "You were about a month or two away from going into a coma and DYING."

I've gradually gained weight over the years and am taking two times the normal dose of thyroid. I'm reading a book right now called "The Thyroid Diet" and it looks like you have to eat very little and exercise a whole lot more than a normal person would to lose weight.

You think I enjoy it or choose to be fat?

Synthroid is now the most commonly prescribed drug in the US and it is estimated that one in five US adults (esp. women) are hypothyroid. Sadly, Synthroid is not nearly as effective as the natural stuff made by Armour (the meat packers). And we have to fight with our doctors to test our thyroids, listen to our symptoms, give us the right kind of hormones, give us enough hormones, etc. I could write a lot about that one. I've argued with some very well credentialed endocrinologists. They go by lab tests. I go by how I FEEL. They think all females are hypochondriacs anyway.


Some education: www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

www.thyroid-info.com

[Lilith Velkor]

148. Bullshit, pay my cigarrette taxes and then you can call me selfish.

[frustrated_lefty]

188. Oh, jesus, do you have any concept of reason?

His "small sampling" matches my own experience. I've known 2 smokers who died in their 80s. Another 14 died much younger. BUT, you say, the CDC says....! Is it so uncomprehensible to grasp that the government is friendly to the pharmaceutical industry? If every smoker in the country quit, today, right now, what profits do you think Nicorette producers would make? I'm approaching 40 and have NEVER seen a medical professional for smoking related illness. Weight related disorders affect the obese throughout their lives, primarily through orthopedics.

By the way, your body odor makes me want to wretch. The unpleasant smell of smoke is a small, but useful relief from that.

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frustrated_lefty]

213. Several thoughts.

This is the same government which says excess mercury in the water is ok, depleted uranium does no harm and the air in New York was a-ok after 9/11. And you think I'm silly for doubting the government's veracity?

I DON'T question that smoking is harmful. And, yes, I think a new anti-smoking industry is forming. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it's a huge market.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. I carried, crawled and dragged my 3 children through the muck of New Orleans a little over a year ago. It pretty much fucking sucks you and your pompous brethren were content to toss a few coins at the Salvation Army and then leave us to die. Merry Qwanza or whatever it's called.

[seabeyond]

339. "Enjoy dying a slow and painful death" this is sick. no justification

just an ugly person. no better. this is the very worst of the anti smoker. i cannot express to you my disgust in someone that has the ability to say something so ugly to another person

[cwydro]

342. I agree

and I don't smoke. The hate on this board is truly appalling sometimes.

[seabeyond]

346. YOU, you non smoker you

thank you. more than you know.

[cwydro]

350. You are very welcome.

Some of my best friends are smokers.

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sirveri]

265. Would you do a fat chick?

I'm guessing you're one of those skinny people who has never been overweight, who jokes about fat chicks or makes comments to his freinds when he sees what a fat person bought at the store. Maybe you are that kind person who stood behind my mother at the grocery store and started making pig snorting noises at her in the check out line. But apparently getting bashed every single day by society with advertising showing the ideal skinny body type while encouraging you to eat a big mac is the same. You know why people are fat, because the food makers put high frutcose corn syrup in EVERYTHING, because we work 60 hour work weeks and are too worn down to go to the gym or prepare our own lunch. Apparently society claims to discourage obesity by repeatedly insulting the overweight (I forgot to mention the teenagers behind me on the public bus when I was overweight in high school, quiet enough that I could just barely hear them), but god forbid that the big corporations start using something expensive as filler, or just make healthy food in general. Or maybe have McDonalds serve salads that weren't the most expensive item on the menu and consisted of nothing but dryed out meat and wilted lettuce and vegetables.

Go figure, a smoker spewing more noxious fumes at me.

[siligut]

297. Fight back,

Yup, ADM, etc is out to get ya, or at least make a profit off your genetically predispositioned existence. Anybody who is costing the insurance companies $ is in the line of fire. Eat whole foods, treat yourself well.

[Sirveri]

299. I am trying, but it's a constant battle.

Half the time I have to battle with my wife to stay on course, then she talks about how she's depressed about her weight, and then we keep trying and fall off because, oh it's christmas or it's new years or thanksgiving or our anniversary or the company picnic or whatever. It's really hard to make progress when you're at work for the ammount of time I have to spend there, makes it next to impossible to brown bag a lunch, doubly so since they don't even provide a refridgerator yet.

And then I get some prick who thinks it's amusing to bash me about my weight (which isn't even all that bad), then I get to watch them go out to McDonalds and order like 4 chicken sandwiches.

[seabeyond]

309. but see, this smoker is empathitic to your challenges, or your wifes

and i dont feel the need to see the weight as the person, glorious person that you are. whomevers weight means nothing to me compared to the person that whomever is....

but then, as a smoker, i can understand the challenge a person has with staying fit and slim, even though i dont have the same battle. i can understand the abuse they receive and the love and comfort they need. and i can understand it isnt the person, there is so much more to who that person is.

[Sirveri]

329. It's a double edged sword.

While I detest the overall general attitude of abuse, in another way it IS a good thing, as it serves to discourage negative behaviour. Ultimately it is NOT healthy to smoke, or be overweight. I would argue that smoking is worse since it impacts the quality of life of those around you by placing foreign substances into the air which they might not want to breath in yet are forced to due to proximity. Being fat just means other people have to see you, not much of a health problem caused outside yourself. But the root message seemed to revel in their self destructive behaviour. I don't get too much flak for my weight when I'm working to keep it down because then people recognise that I have self respect for my own body and am trying to change for the better. I'm not generally for or against smoking in general, I hang out with my smoker freinds while they smoke and inhale and I willingly make that choice. I'm not going to follow them to the smoke pad and ask them not to smoke, but at the same time there needs to at least BE a smoke pad because if I want to I can leave the area and breath normal semi-clean air. In addition maybe it IS the right thing to give SOME flak to people engaged in self destructive behaviour, with the hopes that they'll take a more healthy approach to life and better respect their own body.

[seabeyond]

331. like a child to be scolded. this is what you profess. the really

amazing perspective of this is a person actually suggesting that the smoker, the overweight person, the person that takes risks thru motorcycles or sky diving, may not actually know the risks, and a society or a single person can imprint some wisdom that will modify their behavior.

even with this you can scold the smoker. find a higher in yourself to create your vice a less. to judge another after the pain you experience that judgment.

a negative is just that, a negative. to project scorn is to throw a negative. it does no good. it is not reflective to the needs of people to do right. it is a waste of time. yet so often we fall on scorn to modify behavior.

and at that, still.... i can love all of who you are without judgment. without scorn. without the need to make less.

i was pretty sure your post would head in this direction. it was a challenge, or an opportunity to look beyond judgment, and embrace what was offered. yet you reject, for a personal need of your own.

the log in the eye

the smoker that i am is totally insignificant to who i am and what i give to this world. it means nothing. people allow that to be what they focus on and lose the oppotunity of appreciate the true gifts offered.

[TankLV]

279. Umm - not true by a long shot.

I don't smoke - my partner does, a lot, and believe me - he doesn't stink at all and neither does our home or clothes, etc.

Sometimes his car after he just finished one by himself, but it ALWAYS vanishes within 5 minutes or less...

YOUR experience may differ, but I bet not - I bet there are countless smokers around you that you don't even know it.

That was a very ignorant thing to post regarding smokers and their "stinkyness".

[Maine-ah]

321. .

"and trust me smokers, you stink; your house stinks; your clothes stink - no matter how many hours it's been since your last cigarette." -Ellis Wyatt

or months for that matter, I quit in feb. cold turkey. When I was in the hospital having my baby, when I was discharged, and putting on my own clothes after days of being in the hospital, I realized my clothes still smelled like cig smoke.

[Name removed]

338. Deleted message

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[madokie]

5. It all ends the same way for each of us. Don't force me to live the life you want me to live,

and I will give you the same courtesy.

Says it all

[Connie_Corleone]

6. No complaint from me. We all have our vices.

Mine is food. I love to eat good tasting food.

[The Straight Story]

8. Food, sex, beer, smokes.

Ahhh....

[sweetpotato]

10. I have heard doctors say that they would smoke, if not for emphysema

They had figured that if you didn't have a solid family history of cancer, you probably wouldn't get it. They did understand that smoking cigarettes will cause lung damage if you smoke enough for long enough. Emphysema isn't cancer, but its no picnic. Its a hard way to go.

Take care of yourself.

[The Straight Story]

15. Speaking of Doctors

When my wife was getting a brain scan I could not go back with her. So I went out for a smoke.

Lo and behold there were two doctors out there with me, one was a surgeon just getting done with a job.

I joked about how nice it would be if they had beer and smoke machines in the building. He could not agree more.

I told him it seemed weird to be having a smoke with a doctor. His reply:

"I see more people here for what they eat than what they drink or smoke" and in the end, mom's biggest issue was not her smoking, it was what she had grown up eating all those years.

[sweetpotato]

192. Maybe the campaign should be to get the cigarette makers to clean up their product

I think a lot of the damage is done by the chemicals added to the tobacco for various reasons - even burning and whatnot. Seems they might not be so bad if they were more "natural?"

[Mira]

11. A river in Egypt comes to mind - and I know what I'm talking about

I smoked for over 30 years, 2 packs on a "good day", and I thought there would never be life after cigarettes.
I thought I would be the last one on earth to kick it, it was inconceivable to be successful at it.

I knew well why I needed to rationalize what I was doing because in my case not doing it any more was analogous to being dead already.

I had a friend who felt the same way.
She died at 53, in the middle of the night, falling over her oxygen line, which unplugged, and she was only going for a smoke......

Now - looking back - I was able to quit finally - in 1998 - after acknowledging it won't be and can't be easy.

[The Straight Story]

17. I am not trying to rationalize my own smoking

And I did quit for some time. Was not that hard, I just decided I wasn't going to.

I started again to deal with a lot of issues, and realized I enjoyed smoking and the good flavor of a good smoke (I roll my own).

I just think it is a choice, and I know some people that such a choice is not good for (like my sister-in-law's aunt).

I DO think though that so many folks see it as absolute destruction when that is not always the case. We are a diverse species, and what affects you one way may not affect me in the same way.

Hell, smoking may have saved my life by keeping the stress on my heart down from other things. Stress kills they say, well I have been able to better deal with it this way then others.

[RebelOne]

12. Thanks for your post.

I am a smoker and will be 68 years old next month. I have been smoking since I was 16 and I have outlived many non-smoking friends and family.

[kwassa]

13. Your personal experience doesn't track nationwide

but you knew that.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequ...

Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality

Cigarette smoking is the single most preventable cause of premature death in the United States. Each year, more than 400,000 Americans die from cigarette smoking. In fact, one in every five deaths in the United States is smoking related. Every year, smoking kills more than 276,000 men and 142,000 women.1

Between 1960 and 1990, deaths from lung cancer among women have increased by more than 400%—exceeding breast cancer deaths in the mid-1980s.2 The American Cancer Society estimated that in 1994, 64,300 women died from lung cancer and 44,300 died from breast cancer.3

Men who smoke increase their risk of death from lung cancer by more than 22 times and from bronchitis and emphysema by nearly 10 times. Women who smoke increase their risk of dying from lung cancer by nearly 12 times and the risk of dying from bronchitis and emphysema by more than 10 times. Smoking triples the risk of dying from heart disease among middle-aged men and women.1

Every year in the United States, premature deaths from smoking rob more than five million years from the potential lifespan of those who have died.1

Annually, exposure to secondhand smoke (or environmental tobacco smoke) causes an estimated 3,000 deaths from lung cancer among American adults.4 Scientific studies also link secondhand smoke with heart disease.

[brook]

21. Being born

is the leading cause of death worldwide.

[kwassa]

24. Nice way to avoid the subject and stay in denial

[brook]

61. No avoidance here.

No denial, either.Some of us choose to live by our own truths, experiences and family histories. As a 70+ year old smoker, 5'7", 127 lbs., in good health, still working as well as being a community activist, certainly my anecdotal evidence is a valid as yours?.

Interesting, the media's finally informing women that breast cancer is down. Why is it down? Women got smart and stopped accepting the 'popular truth' that hormone replacement therapy was a necessity...when in fact, it was a danger. Your government is a hell of a lot more dangerous to your health than a pack a day.

[lyonn]

180. We have one life to live and our choices should be our own

Liked your analogy of our govt. coming up with statistics that are not all that truthful. The hormone therapy that so many women got hooked on to prevent pregnancy, or menopause it seems have truly done harm to Some women. The Dr.s pump out the pills that the pharma tell them will do wonders and women patients go for it, me included. One of my sister-in-laws had breast cancer and there was no history in the family, it was even an unusual form of breast cancer, then 15 years later she gets cancer in the other breast. She is a survivor. But, she took hormones steady for all of her productive years. Ya gotta wonder. My Dr. prescribed Foxamax for osteoporosis and I took it for about 2 years, but, in the last 6 mos. of taking a monthly dose had horrible pain in usually left upper arm, left handed, so sometimes would use right arm to vacuum, push, whatever, and then had the Pain in right arm, never new the cause, but had SEVERE pain in the arms that I had barely stressed. Took it upon myself after trying to figure out what the hell was causing this and quit taking Foxamax, Well, Since I quit hasn't happened?? Before that it occured about every month and half, as I would get more agressive with housekeeping, ha.

My point is, there are many things that are detrimental to your health. My mother died at 78 due to intestinal problems and had been a smoker since 14. She would probably have lived to 85 - 90 had she not smoked as the smoking probably lowered her resistance?? But her sister is now 88, non smoker. Other sister died in her early sixties due to a skin cancer and was a smoker. The stories go on.

I am a smoker and can tell that my lungs are not in real fine shape.

Story again, best friend smoked all her life, quit smoking 3 years before dying and died of intestinal problems. Maybe smoking causes intestinal problems? Ha

[Lugnut]

241. I fear the pill pushers more than smokes

My mother-in-law smoked for 50+ years. When the taxes on smokes went through the roof she couldn't afford them anymore on her fixed income and she begrudgingly quit. She'll be 96 in February.

[The Straight Story]

30. I love the term 'related'

Mom was a smoker. Mom died. Report goes in and shows it as a smoking related death. Stats go up. But are they true?

Mom came home from hospital. No one would let her smoke, she could not relax in her own way. She went back into hospital and died. Would it have hurt her to smoke that last week? Nope. Would it have helped her to deal with the stress? Maybe - and maybe she would have lived a little longer. But the smoking nazi's in the family were sure it would make it worse.

She had her need, something to help her deal with the hell of her last days. And no one would give it to her so she could relax a little.

Smoking had nothing to do with her death. An infection then kidney failure did. And she gave up.

The last day I saw her in her kitchen, she was sending me out to the store to get some things for dad. She pretended to puff a smoke and winked at me, and said have one for me. She was at her home, and everyone was telling her what was best for her, how to live. She wanted to resume life as normal, have a smoke, watch some tv, have some decaff. But my sister and dad butted in telling her the best thing to do was lay around and do nothing.

The last time I saw her - well it still makes me cry. She was in her room at the hospital, delusionsal. I could not handle it. The last rational thing she said to my dad was "Mick, tell Todd to go home, he cannot handle this." And I was getting ready to leave she asked me to get the car and pick her up, go for a ride and have a smoke and take her home.

But no - they made her stay there. Over two months and not one smoke, and she died. All she wanted to do was relax and have a couple and get out of that hell hole. But my fundie sister and dad knew best, so she died in a damned hospital bed on a cold new years eve - denied her last desires because it was best for her.

A lot of fucking good it did her. Stressed, dying, and the one thing she wanted was her freedom - and it was denied her for her own good.

[kwassa]

33. Sorry about your mother, but how do you know it shows as smoking-related?

[zreosumgame]

214. the various bodies who make-up these stats see 'smoker'

checked on the file and then ASSume it was smoking related. Not isolated to them either, the same things happen with 'mentions' of drug use in ER's. You are asked if for instance you have use pot in the last 72 hours, you say you had a joint 2 days ago, suddenly your accident is 'drug related'.

[lyonn]

185. Totally relate to your story

About 8 yrs. ago during the summer I had taken my grandkids to local Jr. college for special classes for the very young to acquaint them with higher learning. While they were in class I went to the smoking area outside and smoked. While there, a young female person and I were discussing us sitting out there like convicts, ha, and wondered why there was so much control over our health. She told the story of her very old grandmother that was in a rest home and that the g-ma had a scotch and soda every evening all her life and while in the rest home of course could't have one. She giggled and said she would smuggle in a toddy for her grandma. Grandma enjoyed! Loved the story. Go for it Granny!

[ninkasi]

255. A family friend of my husband's

Died in her mid-eighties. She had smoked for way over 50 years. As she was dying, the daughter who was taking care of her refused to let her smoke. My husband and I went to visit her about a week before she died, and she was pleading then for a cigarette. What harm would it have done then? She died stressed out because nobody would let her smoke. Would it have hurt anything at that point?

[seabeyond]

269. that feels so totally disrespectful to this person.

i would hope we were a better person in the time someone is leaving this earth. you would think compassion would be a part of the equation, over self righteousness. probably/possibly a story told by these people in pride how they didn't allow the mother her cig truly being the caregiver when really it was about power over a weaker person.

[tenshi816]

274. My mother died of lung cancer

two days after her 65th birthday in December 1998. She was diagnosed 16 months earlier and tried to quit smoking for a few weeks after the diagnosis. She just couldn't manage to quit, though, and her oncologist told me that she might as well continue to smoke because she was going to be miserable otherwise. I'm a non-smoker myself (having grown up surrounded by heavy smokers, I had already had enough of it by the time my peers were beginning to experiment with cigarettes), so it took me a little while to admit that the doctor was right, but he was. He said that my mother would live slightly longer if she stopped smoking altogether, but that her quality of life would decline because she'd be giving up something she wanted/needed to do. Mom smoked until a few days before her death, past the point where she even knew who I was anymore, but it made her happy so what would have been the point in making her stop?

[ninkasi]

317. Exactly

I think you did the right thing. By the time a person is that close to death, why deny them something that soothes and eases them? This friend of ours died of heart failure, probably hastened by her smoking, but she was in her eighties. She was already too frail to get out of bed, and I doubt that another few days of feeling withdrawal would have been worth it to her. It was her daughter who made that decision. I couldn't have denied one of my loved ones something they wanted so much under the same circumstances.

[NotGivingUp]

369. i would've given her as many cigarettes as she wanted...it's her choice

[DiverDave]

375. Sorry for your loss...

I'm wordless for your grief, and tears are in my eyes.
Take care of yourself, don't hate your family for being idiots, some folks are just that way.

Peace, Dave

[seabeyond]

55. 84 yr old, pancreatic cancer, quit smoking at 40 died because she smoked

her cancer was considered a smoking death because it was cancer and she had smoked 4 decades prior.

enough is enough

[kwassa]

60. Said who?

[seabeyond]

81. doctors, family. the daughter uses this as an example to children

not to smoke. they loved their grandmother so much, and this woman had a full and beautiful 84 yrs. she died from smoking. no other consideration or explanation.

[kwassa]

116. The doctors claimed smoking as the source of pancreatic cancer?

[TahitiNut]

227. Didn't you know ...

... that all causes of death are "smoking-related"? Yep. Every one of them. Light up in a combat zone and get shot by a sniper? Smoking-related. Crash your car into a Marlboro billboard? Smoking-related. Get distracted by a cute guy or girl walking by smoking a cigarette and fall into an open manhole? Smoking-related. Pickle your liver in a pint of vodka every day for 20 years and die of cirrhosis? Smoking-related. After all, statistics never lie.

[Stardust]

256. Actually, Jimmy Carter lost his father, brother and 2 sisters to

pancreatic cancer. The odds against that many members of one family getting pancreatic cancer are off the charts. He remarked that he felt fortunate to have avoided the disease, but he has never smoked and researches are beginning to suspect a link between smoking and pancreatic cancer. (I have had two relatives die from it. They were both very heavy smokers.)

[dropkickpa]

323. There is actually a VERY high genetic component

In fact, the incidence level of it on one family promoted research that has now identified a gene linked to pancreatic cancer. It is estimated that at least 10% of pancreatic cancer cases are of the familial type (an inherited gene mutation).

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=...

[NotGivingUp]

366. had a friend...she didn't smoke...died of pancreatic cancer...age 47

[johnnie]

14. I know what ya mean

I personally don't know anyone who died from smoking and I am 42 years old. People that have died from cancer didn't smoke, 7 committed suicide, there were a few drug overdoses, my grandparents were 95 each, but they were just old and never smoked and others were young, non-smokers that died of other things.

I know smoking kills, but so does life.

[Mira]

19. Last year my chainsmoking brother died from lung cancer

One of the last things I was able to do for him before Hospice got him was to hold him up while he lit his cigs on the stove.
Matches had been hidden by his wife.
Wait a while, and you too will know someone who died from smoking.

[johnnie]

29. Please accept my sympathies for your brother

I know that I will experience it eventually. I was just saying that so far, the numbers in my life are different than the statistics they present. Someone here posted something that says 1 in 5 will die from smoking. I have known 17-21 people who have died and none from smoking. Even if I knew one, it is different than the statistics.

I'm not sticking up for tobacco, but I think that other things cause deaths that can be prevented and not talked about because of cash.

[Mend]

16. some words about addiction:

you might find yourself in a situation without cigarettes...and that could be a very nasty experience
you could learn something about what is causing your stress if you didn't cover it up with nicotine
smoking isn't just about how you die, it is about how you cope with living.

[The Straight Story]

20. Wise words

Ones which I do not discount.

I have been there, with and without smoking. Using smokes solely to deal is not ideal. But is still not my business to judge others on how they deal or cope.

My sister does not smoke or drink, and I think that is why she is a fundie now she found religion to deal with things, and she votes!

[Mend]

67. if you get a chance, read "How I Stopped Smoking, Drinking,

and Everything Else I Loved in Life Except Sex" by Susan Shapiro....I just loved that book

[seabeyond]

66. ha.... lol , my stress

is my smoking. it is like our society today is wishing death on the smoker. insistant they will die die die sucker. it is sick. they dont realize how sick. the more i want to quit, the more i stress, the more i smoke. this too is sick.

i know beating people up is not an effective and helpful, nor productive way of addressing any addiction. i know it compounds and worsens the situation. and it certainly includes beating self up.

(i am in the process of once again trying to quit)

your post was just one of the more kinder and understanding post.

[TankLV]

284. I swear that there are times at work where I wished I smoked so I could relax...

It's even tempting to me, a non-smoker...

[marions ghost]

230. right

smoking once you start isn't really a choice. It's a very powerful addiction. I save my anger for those who produce and push the death sticks. I have only compassion for smokers.

My brother-in-law's mother died from emphysema this year. My brother-in-law then gave her oxygen concentrator to his sister, a heavy smoker, saying matter-of-factly, 'you'll need this next.' His sister has a raspy cough and gets winded walking across a room. She didn't try to argue the point. Their brother is fighting colon cancer which has been linked to heavy smoking. My mother died an agonizing death from smoking-related emphysema. My sister and I spent many years helping her as best we could. Sure, there are many ways to die, but that's not one anyone would rationally choose. I have two cousins who are in the early stages of emphysema, when you still think you won't die of it. They smoke like chimneys of course, because it is an addiction rather than a choice. My brother has (kinda sorta) kicked it, after witnessing our mother's untimely and horrific death, but his son has taken it up. My brother underwent a lot of big changes in order to (as you put it so well), "cope with living" without smoking. The struggle goes on.

Anyway, for the last 10 years my life has been touched by multiple deaths from smoking. I just don't buy that it's a benign risk-free behavior. It's a serious life-threatening addiction IMO.

Just my experience.

[TankLV]

283. I know what you mean.

Used to be skinny - able to eat EVERYTHING with NO consequences - great cholosterol levels, etc. - until now - now I've got a serious gut, adult diabetes and a family history of heart disease.

Maybe it's because I'm finally over 50 and don't exercise, maybe it's my family history of heart disease and diabetes and overweight (I was the odd one with NONE of those symptoms - until now).

It's fucking HARD to survive on bread and water - without the bread.

I'd go out for a smoke, but I'm too damned lazy to go outside...

Now where's my chocolate, cigar and drink...

[WhiteTara]

22. do as you will and harm none

So just don't blow that nasty smoke around and all is well. We are all going to die and so choose your poison...just don't poison me on your way out. Thanks.

[The Straight Story]

31. Fair enough my friend (nt)

[bleedingheart]

23. watching my father cough up blood was enough for me to not smoke

but for the folks who know the facts and are willing to roll the dice that they won't be one of the losers who dies from either cancer or a slow suffocation...I say let them, but since I have asthma...I won't go to the bars, restaurants or any where else there is smoke.

For perspective, I was 10 when my 60 year old father died. Prior to his death I remember him struggling to breath and he started coughing and he sprayed the wall in the hall with blood speckles...

My brother smokes and I don't care, however...what I don't like is when the jerk comes to my home and he smokes outside and throws the butts all over my yard. When I was on vacation, he came over to use the pool and he left butts all over my yard. I didn't appreciate it and now my husband has basically told him he can't come over if he can't pick up after himself.

Today I found an empty pack of Pall Mall's that some smoker decided to throw into my yard instead of the trash...I will never understand why some smokers think the world is their garbage can.

[Bake]

37. And I found a beer can in my yard ...

Really! Why do some drinkers think the world is their garbage can?

And my neighbor's kid left his Big Wheel in my yard! Why do some parents think the world is their toy chest ...

It's not that your litterbug is one because he smokes (which was the obvious implication of your post), it's that some litterbugs happen to be smokers.

Bake

[bleedingheart]

82. I did say "some" smokers

I didn't lump them all in...

However driving the parkway in Pittsburgh, I have been at a standstill in traffic and the side of the road is littered with lots and lots of cigarette butts...

[seabeyond]

70. my yard seems to be the dumping ground of beer bottles, mcdonald

bags... i dont understand why these people think the world is their trash can

[EvolveOrConvolve]

26. Ah oh...

You shouldn't EVER admit to being a smoker here at DU. We're all a bunch of evil, child killing satanists.

[TankLV]

285. see - I KNEW that was the case!

you finally ADMITTED it!

Next you'll tell us your gay or "CANADIAN" (or "French")!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. My husband has smoked since he was 12

Since we got together, he has rolled his own,using European tobacco (which don't have added chemicals)-17 years. A couple of years ago, he had an x-ray because of suspected kidney stones. The docs who took the xray couldn't believe he was a smoker-his lungs were clear (not the same with his kidneys-but he passed the stones all right)

[petgoat]

50. When I buy a pack of cigarettes, I smoke one after another

until they're gone.

When I roll by own Bugler or Drum, I smoke three cigarettes a day.

Manufactured cigarettes should be a dollar apiece. Bulk tobacco
should be cheap.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

92. That's what he says

he can't smoke one after another because the fire goes out on his roll your own. Plus it is more economical-he doesn't smoke as much, and he puts less tobacco in the ones he makes than what you can get in a ready rolled. I work with guys who smoke Marlboro and Camels, and frankly the smoke makes me ill--but the roll your own doesn't. I'm a non-smoker, btw.

[NotGivingUp]

367. they are killing us with these damn chemicals...and they're not just in cigarettes

[novalib]

28. Some Choices Are STUPID!!!!!!!!!

Some choices are DOWNRIGHT STUPID!!!!!

Example: Brady apparently chose to overdose. HE DIED!!!

Example: SMOKING!!! It's a FILTHY, DISGUSTING, UNHEALTHY ADDICTION!!!!!

SMOKING IS A STUPID CHOICE!!!

NOT ALL CHOICES ARE GOOD CHOICES!!!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

32. I hope you don't have high blood pressure.

Because if you act in real life the same way you type, you'll be dead real soon.

[johnnie]

34. Maybe a smoke will calm the poster down

[Starbucks Anarchist]

36. ...

[TankLV]

286. or a few drinks...

or some good drugs...

[novalib]

I DO NOT!!!!!

I do NOT have HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE!!!!!

And I drink CAFFINATED COFFEE!!!

And I drink CAFFINATED COLAs!!

I just happen to be QUITE PASSIONATE about certain things!!

[The Straight Story]

41. well my friend - maybe the Mormons will come into power and learn you right

"And I drink CAFFINATED COFFEE!!!"

To them that is wrong and a sin, and shortens your life.

But then - that is not true for you is it? But they still YOUR choice as stupid. You want them to make you obey their ideals?

[novalib]

47. WHO IN THE HELL IS TALKING ABOUT

Just who in the HELL is talking about MAKING any one else "obey their ideals"????!!!!!!

I'M NOT!!!!

I simply (but passionately) pointed out that SOME CHOICES ARE STUPID!!!

And YOU start talking about "SIN" and other such NONSENSE!!!!!

Perhaps you might direct YOUR comments about "SIN" and "MAKING" people "OBEY" to SOMEONE ELSE!!!!

[seabeyond]

72. or just YELL at them

[NoSheep]

85. I think you should calm down.

[TankLV]

287. or have a cigarette, or a nice big fat cigar...

or some sex...

or drugs...

just CHILL!

or a Time Out...

[JVS]

104. Drinking Coffee is stupid!

and unholy!

[seabeyond]

106. HEY....... baCK OFF buddy. real slow now. dont be f*in with my coffee

doctor hubby and i have all come to the conclusion, i am healthy, get off the cig but keep the coffee. we see it as a good thing, life line for me and this lifetime. no one is gonna mess with my coffee. go after smoking me all you want, but leave my coffee alone.

[JVS]

108. If you knew what the coffee was doing to your soul, you'd avoid hot drink like you've been told

[seabeyond]

110. my soul.... all the way down to my soul.....

hey, since kids were baby, baby, they knew to just cuddle up with me. but no talking until the second cup. just cannot be done. my lips wont move. never did trust the person that could get up and walk into a shower. i dont get it

[lyonn]

191. Being a Mormon at one time in my life it was taught that coffee

was bad. While making a cake, at the age of 15, I had put coffee in the icing, good idea huh, and when the cake was offered to the Mormon missionaries they rejected it. They said it was tempting the devil. I felt guilty, but, it just didn't make sense, there was only tablespoons added for flavor.

Takes all kinds, that must be why the Democratic party appeals to me, more liberal.

[seabeyond]

109. bah hahahahah. i see our holier than thou yeller is hooked on caffeine

lmao.... bah hahhahaha. lol lol. and in denial. lol lol. tipping on toes in a dance. jsut in a giggle. lol.

welcome to my world dear

[novalib]

131. YOU Talking About ME???!!!!!

Are you talking about ME when you refer to our "holier than thou"???!!!!

FIRST OF ALL, I make NO pretense about being "HOLY"!! (I am not at all HOLY!!)

SECOND, I an NOT "Hooked on Caffeine". Read ALL of my posts on this thread -- you'll see (assuming your reading comprehension skills are good enough) that I am NOT ADDICTED TO CAFFEINE!!!

THIRD, I have NO IDEA what you mean when you accuse me of being in denial!!!

Dance On.

[seabeyond]

132. the very least you could have done was cap DANCE ON. the only

decent thing in your WHOLE post, wink. hows that blood PRESSURE, lol

[novalib]

136. LOW!

As I mention elsewhere in this thread, MY blood pressure is just fine.

And more stupid, intrusive medical questions??!!

[seabeyond]

139. it really is a stupid choice to yell and get all worked up over others choices

the much better choice a zen approach. much healthier. more people keel over from over excitement over the littlest of things in life. really not intrusive, just concerned for your health and the stupid choices you are making.

not to mention what second hand yelling does to the rest of us.

[novalib]

142. ZEN!!!

Ah, Zen.

Zen is, as you say, a better approach to so MANY things.

People who SMOKE often do so IN ORDER TO COPE WITH LIFE's PRESSURES.

I'm quite sure you'll join me in saying that SMOKING IS STUPID!!

Zen is a much better choice for dealing with lifes' pressures!

And, as you say, it is really quite STUPID to get so worked up over other people's choices.

Like whether other people CHOOSE to EXPRESS themselves passionately.

Or like whether other people choose to have an occasional caffeinated beverage.

YOU seem to be quite worked up over MY choices.

Lighten up (BUT DO NOT LIGHT UP), Francis!!!

[seabeyond]

146. quite? no. i am not quite..... worked up by your post

they are giving me a bit of giggle though. they have been a refreshing break in laughter from an otherwise aggressive thread

[novalib]

153. A Career CHOICE, perhaps??!!

Given the fact, that I am amusing you, and causing you to giggle and laugh, do YOU think that I should make a career choice, and pursue comedy???!!!!

Or would that put me OVER THE EDGE???!!!!

[TankLV]

288. okayyyyy now...

(tiptoeing away hurridly)...

[Puglover]

345. Um, this one is for you dude.

[novalib]

353. Here's MY ANSWER, DUDE!!

Am I ready to unleash the FUCKING FURY!!????

HELL YES!!!!

When you are as PASSIONATE as I am, fury is always close at hand!!!!!

[seabeyond]

355. passion doesnt = yelling, fury, anger..... that is a cop out

i think most all can claim to feel passion, hence the time on the board talking about a lot of stuff that interests us.

[Puglover]

371. Actually rather than fury,

I was thinking a straightjacket might be closer.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

42. Clearly, spelling and restraint are not two of them.

[mongo]

126. Quite passionate

about telling OTHER PEOPLE how THEY should live their own lives.

Not much different from fundimentalist Xtains in my book.

[seabeyond]

129. QUITE pASSionately..... i say n/t

[novalib]

135. SHOW ME!!!

Show me --EXACTLY -- where I "TELL OTHER PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE THEIR LIVES"!!!!

Hint: You won't find it!!!

[mongo]

276. Calling people stupid

disgusting and filthy -- same difference.

By passing harsh judgement on them you are telling them they live their life wrong.

Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.

[bertha katzenengel]

263. I've read this subthread, and it seems to me only one clear conclusion can be drawn:

If you're passionate, you must flame people.

I'm passionate. But if I flamed the object of my passion, I'd kill my beloved.

And I was thinking about writing some erotica, but if I used caps I'd turn off my audience.

[TankLV]

289. not if just for the "naughty bits" caps are good for the "naughty bits"...

makes it easier - especially if what they say about going blind is true...

[bertha katzenengel]

313. LOL. My stories could be marked inside the fly leaf:

ALL CAPS = the good stuff.

LOL

[HughMoran]

246. Wow

Is that harsh technique really necessary?

[The Straight Story]

38. Ummmm - about my friend Brady

He was in extreme pain. He was at a friend's house on thanksgiving and forget his meds. He took some morphine for the pain, too much sadly. His friend was on it for a debilitating illness and saw how bad Brady was.

Brady took the meds, he just did not realize the strength of them compared to his.

And yeah - some choices are stupid, like living in a city where the air quality is bad. And so on.

[novalib]

44. Brady TOOK HIS OWN MORPHINE???

Let's see if I have this right:

Your friend Brayd forget his meds for extreme pain while he was at a friend's house.

So Brady then took his own morphine. Brady took too much morphine, and the overdose killed him.

I think I get a whiff of bovine excrement.

Morphine is a VERY TIGHTLY CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE!!!!

It is possible to self-medicate yourself with morphine, BUT ONLY if you have a doctor-approved morphine pump which LIMITS the amount of morphine you can give yourself to a SAFE LEVEL!!!!

I'm GLAD to see that you agree that SOME CHOICES ARE STUPID!!!!!

[Lance_Boyle]

94. not all morphine is supplied by pump

there are oral formulations. I do not have statistics on which is the more prevalent formulation, but it is wrong to say that morphine can only be had via the PCA pump.

[etherealtruth]

174. Morphine is supplied in many formulations ...

Some are time released and slower acting (MS Contin as an example), some are in elixir form and are in various concentrations .... these examples are of formulations that are taken orally.

Of course one needs a prescription, and of course they are controlled substances ...however, they are NOT rare and therapeutic doses will vary wildly from person to person, type of pain and duration on the medication.

[Bake]

39. Switch to decaf

That might be a good choice ...

Bake

[RebelOne]

52. And tell me you have no bad habits at all.

[novalib]

56. I Have NO ADDICTIONS!!!!!

I am NOT PREFECT!!!!!

But I do NOT engage in ANY ADDICTIONS!!!!

And SMOKING IS AN ADDICITION!!

There is a difference between a "bad Habit" and an ADDICTION!!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

57. Caffeine is an addiction.

[novalib]

59. I Am NOT ADDICTED TO CAFFEINE!!!!!

I happen to know people who actually ARE addicted to caffeine.

They tell me they get bad headaches when they are unable to get their daily caffeine fix.

When I drink coffee or cola, I drink coffee and cola with caffeine in it.

BUT I DO NOT DRINK CAFFEINATE COFFEE OR COLA EVERY DAY!!!

And I do NOT get a headache if I don't drink caffeine.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

62. If you're not addicted, what explains your typing style?

[novalib]

64. DO YOU READ????!!!

What explains my typing style??!!

WHAT EXPLAINS MY TYPING STYLE???!!!

Good Gaia, can you READ??!!

As I said earlier in this thread, I AM PASSIONATE!!!!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. I think you jumped the shark from "passionate" to "nuts."

You can be passionate without typing in all caps, you know.

[novalib]

68. Pecans??!! Walnuts??!! Cashews??!!

"Nuts", you say???!!!

What kind of nuts??

Pistachios, perhaps.

I ALSO LIKE ALMONDS!!

In fact, sometimes when I feel like having a nut, I buy an ALMOND JOY!!!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. Oh, man, this is too much fun.

[JVS]

107. BULLSHIT!

[seabeyond]

112. LOL

[JVS]

105. You're in denial. You're what we call a dry-caffeine-drunk

Yeah sure, your head doesn't hurt without it and you don't drink it every day. But sooner or latter you end up with your hand holding that mug. Well there are alcoholics who don't drink every day and don't have the tremors, but they end up drunk eventually.

[novalib]

133. BULLSHIT!!!!!!

You have NO IDEA of how much, or how often, I drink a caffeinated beverage!!!!

I AM PASSIONATE -- NOT addicted to caffeine!!!

And I am NOT in denial!!!

[JVS]

150. " I am NOT in denial!!!"

If that's what you need to believe.

[novalib]

151. I'm NOT and I DO!!!!

I do -- PASSIONATELY -- need to believe that I am NOT in denial!!!

Why, if I were forced to confront the REALITY of my situation, I might ----

I might BEGIN SMOKING!!!!

My choices:

DENIAL or

Tobacco addiction!!

BUT -- I DENY THAT I AM IN DENIAL!!!!

[JVS]

155. You're fun

[novalib]

157. Why, Thanks!

Some say that I am kind of "funny".

It's nice to hear that I am fun!

You're fun, too.

[seabeyond]

158. i'zzzz thinking just that

sincerely

[TankLV]

292. um huh - just keep telling yourself that...

how's that working for ya!

[TankLV]

291. mmmm - okayyyy then....

if YOU say so...

[etherealtruth]

176. Yes, smoking is an addiction

Just as alcoholism is the addiction to alcohol... addicts aren't generally making "choices," most often they are acting on compulsions. For some the compulsions are so strong that it does become beyond their control.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. For Many, Smoking Is No Longer A Choice: It's An Addiction.

[TahitiNut]

99. How many caps and exclamation points does it take to make an opinion more convincing?

[sniffa]

115. THE CAPS LOCK KEY IS STUPID!!!!1!!1!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

137. Does this mean you have to put your Ls in lowercase now?

[Left Is Write]

120. Can I gently make a suggestion?

You often have some good points to make in your posts, but they are getting lost in the shouting and the exclamation points. The excessiveness of both makes your posts look hysterical and make you appear overly worked up. Whether this is your intention or not doesn't really matter - that's the effect.

I'm sure that you want people to take your posts and your thoughts seriously. I guarantee that your posts will be received better if you tone them down and write clearly and calmly.

I am not trying to insult you. I'm trying to help you.

[JeffR]

35. 5th rec

and:

[Sapere aude]

40. OK, let the games begin and begin and begin and begin and

Keep your fucking smoke out of my face and my lungs and I don't care what you smoke.

[Bake]

43. I do love a good smoking thread!

Because it gets the nannies all worked up, and I can just go outside and enjoy a cigg.



Bake

[TahitiNut]

101. I suspect that tobacco consumption goes up among DUers every time we have such a thread.

The funny thing is that the most emotional, zealous posts by far are from folks whose personal choices aren't being challenged.

[Bake]

187. You noticed that too?

I noticed that the smokers don't generally TYPE IN ALL CAPS, TOO!!!!!!!

Bake

[TankLV]

293. Okay - now I'm going outside for that cigar...

it has alcohol in it too - rum flavored...

[zbdent]

45. Mind if I

Fart in your general direction?

[JNelson6563]

46. Don't personal issues go in the lounge?

[Speck Tater]

48. I smoked for 45 years.

The reason that I don't smoke now is that I get a hacking cough when I smoke. It clears up completely after 5 to 7 days of not smoking, so, since that cough can be annoying and unpleasant, I don't smoke any more.

As for your observations, out of four aunts and uncles (sisters and brothers of my mom) three got lung cancer. One of those never smoked, the other two did smoke. The fourth, a heavy smoker, is in his 80's and healthy as a horse. Oddly, the one that got lung cancer at the youngest age was the one who never smoked and lived in a smoke free home.

Here's the deal with statistical studies. They only mean anything in large groups. It means something to the insurance companies and to the health care system. But at the level of a single individual statistic don't predict anything. There's too much individual variability.

[kwassa]

58. It does predict odds, however. Do you want to take the risk?

"Here's the deal with statistical studies. They only mean anything in large groups. It means something to the insurance companies and to the health care system. But at the level of a single individual statistic don't predict anything. There's too much individual variability."

and there are lots of people, 400,000 that die from smoking, too. That individual variability is great tool for not dealing with the problem.

[The Straight Story]

98. So we slowly lose our individualism in favor of group stats

After we conquer smoking, there will be a new stat with a new group to focus on.

All for the common good of course.

I think the core message smokers have is 'Leave me alone' - something many more will be echoing in the coming years as fundies show you how your life is not on the right path.

Conform or be punished, coming to your home soon.

[kwassa]

119. I'll leave you alone if you don't smoke near me.

and don't smoke in public shared spaces.

[IdaBriggs]

49. I am allergic. Feel free to smoke, but don't do it around me or mine.

Your recreational hobby interferes with my breathing.

If my eating a Big Mac makes it difficult for YOU to breathe, I would expect that I would be required to do so in the privacy of my own home as well.

End discussion for me.

[TahitiNut]

102. Fact: There are no allergens in ETS.

[IdaBriggs]

138. Wow -- its a miracle! I am around smoke, and I can't breathe!

My asthmatic nephew's lungs begin closing up, and he takes a trip to the hospital. My husband's nasal passages clog up, and he can't breathe, either. This has happened to both my husband and I are entire lives, so I am confident that my reality (smokers make it difficult to breathe) trumps your "fact" about allergens.

As a side note, when my father finally quit smoking (he "only" did it outside), my mother "magically" quit getting her annual pneumonia. It was one of those "amazing" coincidences (he smoked for twenty years/she got pneumonia; he stopped smoking for the last fifteen years, and she stopped being hospitalized for pneumonia).

If you want to smoke, feel free, but don't do it around me or mine; your recreational hobby can kill us, and when it doesn't do that, it makes us physically miserable. It is, for all intents and purposes, a form of assault.

[TahitiNut]

143. Asthma has nothing to do with "allergy."

Zealous opposition to smoking is not license to claim something that's medically impossible. In my opinion, ANYONE who resorts to falsehoods, either knowingly or unknowingly, in support of their opinion erodes the credibility of that position and those who share it.

[IdaBriggs]

159. My *nephew* has asthma, and my husband and I are allergic.

We were both tested by "real live doctors" and told that we were allergic, so I am very comfortable with not only the diagnosis, but also with the fact that we actually can verify the cause/effect relationship by our proximity to smokers.

In my experience, it is much easier for smokers to "play pretend" about the cause/effect relationship their behavior has on those around them than to deal with the reality of their recreational behavior. For example, my father (an expert in denial) really couldn't understand how his smoking and his wife's annual pneumonia problems were related, despite several doctors sitting him down and explaining it. It wasn't until *after* he quit smoking that he suddenly "got it."



The pleasure principal is indeed a very powerful one -- and if smoking gives you pleasure, then odds are you can find a way to justify the behavior even if it hurts the people around you. I've seen folks who use illegal drugs, or have other addictive behaviors do the same thing, so its really no surprise to me. There's always a reason or an excuse to do things you want to do, and it takes a heckuva lot to sacrifice one's own personal pleasure for the safety/health/well being of others.

Bottom line stays the same -- smoke if you want to, just don't do it around me or mine.

[TahitiNut]

163. Really? (Color me dubious.) Your "real live doctors" should publish that 'diagnosis.'

They might then have their license to practice medicine revoked ... or be feted by the medical establishment for discovering an allergen that has never before been identified.

Again, your claim is contrary to medical fact. I personally don't particularly care how "comfortable" you are with that in light of the fact that it's just not true.

[IdaBriggs]

173. ROFLMAO!!! Wow! You honestly believe that I should listen to the advice

of some anonymous guy on a message board about the health and well being of my family instead of real live doctors??? Because YOU are an expert with impeccable credentials? And you've spent how much time studying medicine? Did your residency on these things where? Regularly read the appropriate medical journals, and are familiar with not just the terminology, but the context of the studies? Know my family's medical history and whether or not multiple physicians were able to accurately diagnosis allergies correctly?

Seriously, what are you on? Oh, that's right -- I remember you now from the "drugs can be bad" thread a few months ago -- you were flabbergasted, and put up this smilie:

Yup, I know how much credibility to assign to YOUR opinion!

I actually have to thank you for that -- I've been crying for two days over the loss of my two Puppy Girls, and you have OFFICIALLY given me the first real laugh I've had during that time. I'm pretty much done with the discussion now, but that's okay. You didn't change my mind, I didn't change yours, and I am comfortable with that. Enjoy your day!

[TahitiNut]

178. Pardon me for posting on a discussion forum.

After all, it'd be presumptious of me to post anything that's contrary to the politically correct stances of the self-proclaimed superior people here ... since it'd obviously imply that I you (or anyone else) "should listen." God forbid!! How could I possibly be so presumptuous? After all, folks "should listen" to only YOUR posts, right?

Mea culpa. I'm just not worthy. How can I EVER be forgiven for posting?

[IdaBriggs]

218. All is forgiven -- like I said, you gave me my first laugh in days!

Besides, I think you just like to post to be contrary sometimes, and since everyone has "those moods" its probably best you indulge yourself in the anonymous world of cyberspace. I highly doubt you would behave in a disrespectful manner (lighting up in my home, for example) were we to meet in the real world.

[Susang]

277. Hardly "medical fact"

You might want to root around on Medline or PubMed a little.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?art...

Or the Journal of Immunology: http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/full/167/8/4765

Of course, by arguing the semantics of whether ETS is an allergen or causes people to develop allergies is rather an unfair tactic, as it seems to be accepted medical theory that ETS causes IgE and histamine levels to soar in people who have other allergies and cause severe respitory symptoms in others allergies or not. Some researchers believe that is indicative of an allergen, some do not. That's the beauty of science, you'll rarely see a research physician trumpet "medical fact" since they know that phrase is utter bullshit. What is considered fact can always be (and usually is) disputed by others.

[lyonn]

204. Most of us smokers realize this problem and stay away

We are prohited from smoking in restaurants, air planes (that's a tough one) offices, etc. and I abide by these laws. When I go to someones house I will not smoke until it is known if that is permissable. Yet, it is interesting that some of these non-smokers will spend an evening, one even weeks, at my house and seem to enjoy themselves. No medical problems. Yes, cigs smell. Got giant air filters going most the time. Still the smell of cig is there to some extent.

Most of us smokers know that it is offensive to many. Pious people are offensive to me. People seem to like coming to visit us in spite of my addiction.

[NorthernSpy]

219. mutual tolerance is the answer...

You -- and most of the smokers I've encountered -- seem to be very considerate. I appreciate that.

In my experience, the person who makes a big, throat-clutching production of an "attack" upon sensing a whiff of cigarette smoke probably doesn't have any real breathing problems. What they typically describe experiencing usually doesn't sound much like asthma, or anaphylaxis -- or whatever else they've claimed is now ailing them, thanks to you...


The reality is this: the smokers of the world did not cause my asthma, and that cigarette you are smoking near me is actually far less likely to precipitate an acute attack than are any number of other things we all encounter every single day.

So please don't get the idea that all people with lung problems wish to scapegoat smokers. I certainly don't, and I don't believe that most of us do. Sure, I appreciate a little consideration when I need it, but mostly I view my condition as MY problem to manage -- not as something that justifies the banishment of smokers from public parks and sidewalks and the like.

[coznfx]

264. Your home is YOUR castle, and if your castle is smoke-free

I've no problem with not smoking while visiting. If you're a Mormon, I won't ask for a cup of coffee. I once had a friend whose sense of smell was VERY sensitive; I made sure to not wear after-shave when I visited him.

Considering my willingness to abide by the 'house rules' while a guest at other people's homes, is it wrong to feel a little offended when visitors to MY castle refuse to light up and have a beer with me? It's even my treat!

[Duppers]

349. well that's news to the MAYO CLINIC!

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/allergies-and-asthma/A...

>>
Double trouble: The link between allergies and asthma

If you have both allergies and asthma, you may wonder what they have in common besides a maddening ability to make you miserable. A lot, as it turns out. Allergy-induced asthma is the most common type of asthma in the United States; 60% of people with asthma have the allergic type. James T. Li, M.D., a Mayo Clinic allergy specialist answers your questions about the similarities and the differences between allergies and asthma.
>>

more at link

[Crowskie]

224. When I was young, my baby sitter's son died after being exposed to cigarette smoke at college

yes, he had asthma, but it wasn't his fault. He even had an inhaler, but it didn't help.

Same thing almost happened to a friend of mine last year. Luckily there was an ambulance nearby.

If you want to smoke, then go ahead, but do it at home or some designated place AWAY from doorways.

[NorthernSpy]

258. people blame smokers for these things because it's socially acceptable to do so...

The worst asthma triggers around a doorway are actually the exhaust from passing vehicles (especially those with diesel-burning engines) and the temperature differential between indoors and outdoors. People who don't have breathing problems automatically focus on smokers as the cause of asthma exacerbations, because for them cigarette smoke is the first (or only) thing that springs to mind as a "dangerous lung irritant". (I once nearly lost consciousness during a severe attack that was precipitated by a lungful of clean winter air. So much for those "healthy outdoor winter activities" someone's always badgering us to participate in.)


Funny, isn't it, how no one ever offers to give up driving their car in public for the sake of all the poor little asthmatics. Why do you suppose that is?

[HughMoran]

247. lol - even when I smoked the secondhand smoke from my own butt

drove me insane

I see your point, but is it a good point?

I can't STAND eating in a restaurant where people are smoking - technically I am not allergic, but...!

[NorthernSpy]

257. sir, are you aware your butt is still smoking?

Your butt is smoking the place up. I'm going to have to ask you take it outside!

[HughMoran]

282. lol

[Bluebear]

330. :)

[Dastard Stepchild]

181. Oh dear...

I have this problem, too. I am extremely sensitive to smoke. It makes my eyes water something terrible and I get really congested. I can generally avoid it since I don't go to bars or clubs and few people I know smoke, but man, it can get pretty bad sometimes.

In the apartment I am currently living in, there were cracks in the floorboards and the smoke for our downstairs neighbor would just pour into our apartment. I was miserable! We got some really high-grade materials and patched all the gaps and whatnot (cost a fortune and a possible bye-bye to our security deposit), but it was terrible for those first 2 weeks. It's much better now, but it did make me kind of angry because it was impacting my quality of life. Mostly I just bitched and swore at my husband for encouraging us to take this apartment.

It's much better now, though. Nary a problem with the smoke.

[smiley_glad_hands]

51. I hear ya.

My grandfather died from a brain tumor related to mesothelioma and asbestos exposure. He was a smoker, and lived into his 80's. It wasn't a nice way to go (if there is such a thing) but he lived a long and full life.

[Nye Bevan]

53. Please try to quit. The benefits are tremendous.

20 minutes - Blood pressure & pulse rate come down slightly and body temperature of hands and feet increases.

2 hours - the nicotine is out of your system.

24 Hours - Carbon monoxide level in the blood returns to normal. Oxygen level in the blood increases to normal. Your lungs work more efficiently.

48 Hours - Nerve endings start regrowing. Ability to taste and smell is enhanced.

2 Weeks to 3 Months - Circulation improves. Walking becomes easier. Lung function increases up to 30%. Your tastebuds come alive and your sense of smell returns.

1 to 9 Months - Coughing, sinus congestion, fatigue, and shortness of breath decreases. Cilia regrow in lungs, increasing ability to handle mucus, clean the lungs, and reduce infection. Body's overall energy increases. Both sexes become more fertile.

1 Year - Excess risk of sudden death from heart attack is down to almost half that of smokers.

5 Years - The risk of heart attack is now almost the same as for a non-smoker. Lung cancer death rate for average smoker (one pack a day) decreases by almost half.

5 to 15 years after quitting - stroke risk is reduced to that of a nonsmoker.

10 Years - Lung cancer death rate similar to that of nonsmokers. Risk of cancer of the mouth, throat, esophagus, bladder, kidney and pancreas decreases.



Just imagine if someone invented a pill that did all this! And instead of having to pay for the pill, they will pay *you* hundreds of dollars a year to take it! That's what giving up smoking is.

[Bonhomme Richard]

54. I smoke and I like it.

I've been rolling my own (no chemicals and about $1.30 a pack) for about a year. It's how I deal with stress and the last physical I got my lungs were clear and I caused that thing you blow into to check lung capacity to bottom out (then again I'm a singer). It's not for everybody but leave me alone. My health (for 53 years old) is a lot better than a lot of people I know, older and younger, who don't smoke. I hike, I sail, I lug band equipment around and play 4 hours straight. Bottom line is I'm OK with it. It's who I am.
Oh yeah, two of my doctors (one is in the band) smoke socially. Go figure.

[youthere]

63. As long as you aren't breastfeedng in public!

LOL..

I don't care if you smoke, if you don't care that I will stand upwind. Fair 'nuff?

[The Backlash Cometh]

69. Maybe this is a battle between the canaries & children versus

those who have a high tolerance for smoke? We can definitely say that children should not be subjected to a smoke filled environment. My own daughter begins to show symptoms of asthma whenever she's around it. So those areas are definitely off the table.

Then there's the smokers who can make it to 90, while still smoking. The problem is, to get to them, you have to filter out all those who couldn't.

I don't know. I think banning smoke from designated outdoor smoking areas is a bit rough, but I am so glad not to have to smell it in restaurants or hotel rooms.

[LeftishBrit]

186. I fully agree

As a non-smoker, I think that people should not smoke in other people's homes without permission; and should not smoke in public enclosed places that everyone needs to use. I think that people should have the right to smoke in their own homes, outdoors, and in designated smokers' areas in most types of places.

I think there are two things we ALL need to be aware of:

(1) Whether you call it 'allergy' or not, there are some people who become unwell when they are around cigarette smoke, and in extreme cases, may have severe difficulty in breathing under such circumstances.

(2) Many smokers are genuinely addicted and CANNOT stop; many whom I know have tried without success. Some others might be able to stop, but only at the cost of exacerbating depression or stress-related illnesses that would be more damaging to their health than the smoking.

Smokers who deny (1) and non-smokers who deny (2) are getting a little too close to the Rush-Limbaugh-on Michael J. Fox syndrome for my taste. In general, in my opinon, one should believe other people about their own health problems (unless proven otherwise), and not let ideology (in either direction) make one harsh in one's attitude to other people's health needs.

As regards smoking as a danger to health: I have known several people who died from smoking: at least one from cancer, two from emphysema. It has certainly put me off smoking. But as others have said, we all take risks. I eat too much chocolate and drink too much coffee. I don't think that people's personal health decisions should be subject to prohibition and punishment, unless they're endangering or harming others. We all know the disastrous effects of the wars on drugs, for instance.

[npincus]

71. Just don't do it around me or my kid!

I grind my teeth and and chew gum, but that won't hurt the other people in the room. I've known a number of people that accelerted their demise by smoking- one of them was my Dad. Some time after he had to carry oxygen with him, he volunteered to talk to classes in a local high school, kind of like a "don't end up like me", don't smoke talk.

I wish you well. But you're awfully defensive about your habit, so on some level you are not comfortable with it. Smoking has become so expensive, too. If you can cut your intake by half, imagine all the $ you can save. I made my husband cut down on his beer purchases (and consuming) because it was too expensive.

Anyway, happy holdiays and a long, happy life to you.

[seabeyond]

76. there was a thread with a poster stating all smokers are dirt bag

you smoke you die.

i dont know if it is a matter of defense or just asking for reason. of course it is yours to interpret

[brook]

100. Thanks, but note this:

"But you're awfully defensive about your habit, so on some level you are not comfortable with it."

In the face of unsolicited and constant attack, how would you react? It gets tiresome.

Yes, cigarettes are expensive -because the morality police have increased the cost to punish the sinners. 4 or 5 years ago, $17-18 a carton. Today -$43. Big Macs ought to cost at least as much. After all, obesity's a big killer - and if I had the same mindset as so many anti-smokers, I'd have to rant and rave about how much the fatsos of this world are costing skinny-me with their healthcare, wouldn't I?

Maybe we all ought to just mind our own business? Just a thought. And Happy Holidays to all.

[cboy4]

73. Oh boy.

[youthere]

74. Ooh..extra butter please!

[cboy4]

79. LOL . . .

[The Straight Story]

93. Tha butter will KILL you, and cost people more in health insurance

You evil person you!

[TankLV]

295. but I've been told margarineis worse...

back to the bread and water - without the bread...

[K8-EEE]

75. Smoking Is Expensive, Smelly, Annoying & BushCo Supporting

Sorry, I'm an ex-smoker myself so I know how the denial/rationalization thing can be, but every time you light a cigarette, it's a bad thing 10 different ways. I don't go around yelling at smokers but when they're all like "might as well smoke cuz I'm gonna die anyhow" I have to say: bullshit. I know 2 people personally (smokers) who have died of lung cancer and even though non-smokers can get it, why the hell do you want to do anything several times a day to make it more likely??

I also think that once addicted the "enjoyment" aspect of it decreases, and it's quite simply an addiction/monkey on the back and they don't want to face the Jones-in' involved in tossing the damn things.

[EdwardM]

78. Just don't smoke around me and I don't care what you do.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

83. I miss smoking sometimes. One thing you notice when you quit is

how bad the rest of the world stinks. When your sense of smell comes back you begin to notice every whisp of BO, every whiff of Eau d'Aunt Bea, every waft of every unnaturally & overly perfumed item in the stores, etc.

[dapper]

84. Congrats!

I'm not opposed to someone smoking, feel free to keep puffing away.

I quit smoking and in many ways, feel much better. I gained some weight which I'm slowly starting to burn off,, On the most part, I did it for health and I did it because of my newborn.

My Mom died of Lung Cancer/Emphisema (sp)at 62 and my Dad died at 67, he definately had COPD but refused to see a doctor. I stopped buying him cigarettes a long time before then, he relied on my brother who would visit on Sundays. My Dad couldn't walk 10 feet without being out of breath. My Grandmother quit when she was in her 50's and who knows if one thing had to do with the other but she ended up with a pace maker and finally cancer.

You have the right to smoke and I have the right to clean air. I am actually happy that smoking is being restricted from places such as restaraunts, bars..etc as I have quit smoking and I am entitled not to breath in second hand smoke.


Dapper

[pansypoo53219]

87. but if smoking does take you....

my grandpa died from lung cancer that spread to his bones. he couldn't handle opium pain meds. only tylenol 3 and it was horrid and he was 1/2 his weight and it was a horrible way to go.
my great uncle, my other grandpa's brother. who started smoking at 12. was shorter than my grandpa for one. and he had the heart effects of smoking and after his 1st heart attack, life sure was diminished. and he died much earlier than his older brother.
my other great uncle may have lived to his 90's, but the emphasema made life not so good. and he spent the last years in a nursing home.
his non-smoking sister, 95, after breaking a hip, is still living in her own home.

my uncle's wife's mother is in the last stages as well, clinging to life, gasping for breath.

plus, how much money are you burning?

[The Straight Story]

89. I guess it all comes down to this: WHY

Do some smokers get cancer, while others have no issues with it??

[AndreaCG]

88. You conveniently left out how they died

And P.S. my second hand fat won't give you a heart attack.

You want to smoke? Do it in your private room where no one but other smokers enter.

[seabeyond]

95. or dont come into my home.

i think with attitudes like yours, people tend to think it hurts my feelings others not wanting to be around me. i dont want to be around you. if the "smell" not the smoke bothers you so much as to not want to enjoy my company, i really wouldnt be friends with you anyway. no loss.

last handful of years i have met three women. all so opposed to smoking and hearing the same thing i hear from people on this board. i would go away to smoke. far away. because just seeing a cig seemed to cause as great a stress for them as the actual being around smoke.

after we continued to become friends i would excuse myself and they would follow. i would tell them, i am going for a smoke and they would shrug it off and say it is ok. wtf.... such huge deals at beginning of relationship then.... it isnt a big deal.

i find much of the behavior of a non smoker, just a smoke screen

[Brazenly Liberal]

90. So what?

I have known dozens of people who ate three good meals every day and still died. Does that mean starvation is overrated as a cause of death?

All you've proved is that smoking isn't the only thing that kills people. Wow! What a newsflash!

Look, I really don't give a rat's ass if you smoke unless I'm forced to breathe in the fumes, too. If you and I are in a closed space together, it's reasonable to expect you not to smoke there. If you're in your own home or your own car, it's none of my business.

[The Straight Story]

91. Praise the lord and pass the lighter

"Look, I really don't give a rat's ass if you smoke unless I'm forced to breathe in the fumes, too."

Would that many others felt as you do.

[ellenfl]

96. my mom smoked a good

20 years after my dad quit. he died 10 years ago of cancer (not lung) but mom is still alive and kicking and she did quit smoking about 20 years ago. however, my brother died this year of cancer that began as lung cancer. his lung cancer was cured but migrated to his brain first. yes, he was a longtime smoker but his occupation contributed to his death as did his lifestyle.

if the oil companies were not in charge we might be advised that the emissions from automobiles are much more dangerous than from smoking but we'll never hear that. we also ingest food and drink that are altered with chemicals. who really knows what kills us?!

i contend that what we eat, drink and breathe are just as deadly as what we smoke.

ellen fl

[Pawel K]

97. I am not going to judge you

I have my own personal vices, we all do. If you want to smoke I think that should be your right, knock yourself out. You wanna a drink? As soon as you don't get in a car and endanger me, knock yourself out. You wanna smoke a join or 2, enjoy it.

But if you try to suggest that what you are doing isn't bad for your health then I have to call BS. Do yourself a favor, recognize that what you are doing is pretty bad for your health and quitting will probably be the best thing for you in the long run.

[dysfunctional press]

111. i smoke pot, but not tobacco.

i smoke about an ounce a week- just me, my wife doesn't smoke, and most of my friends don't either. i should add that for me it's very much a medicinal thing, as i have a severly painful autoimmune disorder/rheumatic condition called ankylosing spondylitis- it's a slow fusion of the spine...if i lived in a state that allowed it, i could easily get a prescription- the guy who started the orange county cannabis club has the same disorder- unfortunately for him, the feds have locked him up over the pot thing.

as far as my own pot-smoking- like i said, it's about an ounce a week, and i've been doing it for 20 years now...i had a chest x-ray this summer, and my doctor told me that my lungs are "clean as a whistle".

[On the Road]

113. It Is NOT True That, as Some Have It,

"Cigarettes the one product that, if used according to directions, will kill you."

The risk of lung cancer for a smoker is between 1/7 and 1/8. Similar to playing Russian routlette with one bullet, but then most people who do this survive. Odds of a non-smoker getting lung cancer are less than one in a thousand.

The other factor that is not usually mentioned is how heavily someone smokes -- the number of cigarettes per day or pack-years. Although smoking is by far the biggest factor in lung cancer, it's almost impossible to locate research results stratifying risk by amount smoked. I suspect that cancer rates for light smokers are not high enough to generate alarm, but since the results are not widely distributed, it's difficult to tell.

Some people may attempt to (in L. Rust Hills's words) "how to NOT smoke and drink.....quite so much."

[kwassa]

114. How do you come by these figures of 1/7 and 1/8?

[On the Road]

156. Googling Lung Cancer Risk for Smokers

I've seen several numbers all within that range. Ditto for lung cancer risk for nonsmokers. Not hard to find.

What I was unable to find, despite searching for over an hour, is a breakdown by how heavily the subject smokes. That is what surprised me. I seem to remember a slide in middle school health class which showed this relationship, and that less than half a pack a day wasn't all that high. But it was a long time ago and the film may have been subsidized by tobacco companies for all I know. Was just trying to confirm and get an updated number.

The reason I was searching is that I smoke 2-3 cigarettes a day and want to know my risk. 1/100 is too high -- if it's over that I'll quit. 1/500 is acceptable. That's my personal comfort level. But right now, I have no idea. There are tons of statistics, but the way they're presented seems designed to conceal the actual information and simply support the message "Don't Smoke."

[ileus]

117. Good luck with that.

[Kelly Rupert]

118. I went to the casino two weeks ago.

I won 50 dollars. My girlfriend won 20. Therefore casinos give money away, are not profitable, and thus do not exist.

[Bluebear]

121. Excellent, smoking is never discussed here & it's a shame.

[JVS]

122. LOL

[JeffR]

123. Best smoking thread response ever

[bpeale]

124. I am a former smoker

I have known many smokers over the years. Let's start with just family.

Mom: started smoking in her teens. Died at age 82 from a fall which broke her hip.

Dad: started smoking in his teens. Died at age 75 from heart disease & lymphoma (it was actually the result of an allergy to one of the chemo drugs that killed him).

Grandpa (dad's side): started smoking in his teens before the turn of the 20th century. Died at age 95 of just plain old age. He was an alcoholic for 50 years, chewed tobacco for 60 years. AND HE DIED OF OLD AGE EVEN WITH ALL HIS VICES.

Aunt Dorothy: started smoking in her teens. Died at age 85 of lung cancer.

Aunt Dolly: started smoking in her 20's. Died at age 45 of cancer (don't remember what kind).

Aunt Irma: started smoking in her 20's. Died at age 65 of emphysema.

Uncle Harvey: started smoking early 20's. Died at age 80 of cancer of the throat (at the time he had quit years earlier).

Uncle Herb: started smoking early 20's. Died at age 57 of heart disease.


Non-smokers I have known who have died:

Aunt Kitty: Died from a particularly virulent form of lung cancer CAUSED by inhaling plastics fumes from making catheters for hospitals. The cancer took 15 years to kill her. She was only in her 50's when she died.

Grandpa (mom's side): Died from cancer of the ear which spread when he wouldn't go see a doctor. He was in his 80's.

Grandma (mom's side): Died of complications of diabetes. She was 85.

Grandma (dad's side): Died of complications of diabetes. She was in her 60's.

Cristina (friend): Died recently at age 30 from complications associated with bulimia.

Barbara (coworker): Died of ovarian cancer at age 50.


As a former smoker, I constantly fight for the rights of smokers, especially where I work (a research library for a university).

When my father was dieing his doctor told me that EVERYONE is going to die of cancer. It's a matter of when and what kind. I truly believe that. I quit smoking 6 years ago just because I had been trying to for years. Sure, my lungs are better now. I breathe much better. I started going to a gym to combat the weight gain I knew was coming, but injured myself and had to quit going. Two surgeries left me unable to even walk very far. So now I have great lungs, but I gained 60 lbs, I am on a walker, I have diabetes, and I have sleep apnea because of the weight gain. So which was actually worse? In hindsight I think quitting was the worst thing I ever did. I now have unending medical problems where I was completely healthy before. So as a quitter, I am costing the health care system even more than I did as a smoker, and NONE of it is the result of smoking. All of it is the result of quitting smoking.

I with whoever said being born is the leading cause of death. I firmly believe that nothing you do will give you so much as one extra day on this earth. You are allotted a certain amount of days on this earth & nothing you do will change that. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. All I ever wanted was to be able to walk when I was older & it looks like that may not happen. Oh well.

What you do with your own life is your business, but you do not have the right to infringe on me living my life. If you don't like the smoke, then by God stay home, or get the f**k out of my home. Don't come to my house. Don't visit with me outside on my break. Don't talk to me. You have plenty of annoying habits that I object to also, so don't feel so smug & superior, only I am not so rude as to criticize or point out your bad habits.

Just remember, when you point at me, there are 3 other fingers pointing back at you.

[skypilot]

127. You might not know it but...

...I owe you an apology. In another smoking thread I said that some people say that ex-smokers are the worst when it comes to being self-righteous about the evils of smoking. And some people DO say that and I'm often inclined to agree with them based on my experience. But I'm glad to encounter a different kind of ex-smoker. It proves that becoming one of the other kind is not inevitable.

[nashville_brook]

125. give them a Nanny Patch!

something to calm their addiction to running other people's lives.

[brook]

130. "Nanny Patch"?

I love it!

[LynneSin]

134. And my father, a smoker, died at age 41

It's all a random thing but the fact that you smoke makes it a greater risk.

[chaska]

140. Surely there's a forum somewhere dedicated to smokers and smoking...

Go away.

[seabeyond]

141. this is the perfect example of assine

why dont you just stay out of the thread instead of telling people what to do

[novalib]

144. CALM DOWN!!!

Just live and let live.

If someone wants to dispense advice, surely YOU'll not object!

[seabeyond]

147. like telling me to calm down, as passionately as you are able.

you are funny. you talk about reading comprehension above. you might want to follow your own advice, wink

[The Straight Story]

149. Advice versus a directive, look again:

"GO away" is not giving advice, it is telling someone precisely what to do (instead of engaging in open discussion).

It is, alas, the easy way out when one has nothing to add or cannot find an intelligent response.

[novalib]

152. "LOOK AGAIN"???!!!

When you say "LOOK AGAIN", are you giving me advice???!!!

Or are you DIRECTING ME to do something??!!!

When you say "LOOK AGAIN", are you taking the easy way out because you have nothing to add or because you cannot find an intelligent response??!!

By the way, I'm Just ASKING.

(I am neither directing or advising)!

[Generator]

183. I want some of what YOU'RE smoking

funniest replies I've read in awhile.

[novalib]

206. "WHAT I AM SMOKING"!?!?!?!? WTF???!!!!!!

YOU WANT WHAT??!!!!

You want some of what I am smoking?????!!!!

You want some of what I am SMOKING???!!!!

I DO NOT SMOKE ANYTHING!!!

Yo no smoko nada.

Je ne fume rien.

I am simply a NATURALLY PASSIONATE PERSON!!!!!

I BREATHE PASSION!!

[Seabiscuit]

326. Well, could you roll up some of that PASSION and market it in a cigarette

pack, pretty please?

[novalib]

332. MARKET my PASSION???!!!!

Market my passion???!!!

MARKET my PASSION???!!!

I DON'T THINK SO!!!

I am QUITE PASSIONATE about SHARING what I have!!

And "marketing" means SELLING!!

I have NO desire to become a PASSION WHORE!!

I'll GIVE my passion away!! But I'll NEVER sell it!!!

[Seabiscuit]

341. Well, then... don't bogart that PASSION, my friend!

Pass some over to me.

[novalib]

354. I NEVER BOGART!!!

I NEVER bogart!!!

And I DO NOT BACALL, either!!!

You want me to pass you some PASSION???!!!

OK.

Here:

P (Sorry that I first have to give you some P)
A
S
S (Please DO NOT EVEN think that I am MAKING A PASS at you!!)

I (One of MY FAVORITE PEOPLE!!)

O
N

(if you add some T, you can PASS IT ON!)

[HughMoran]

250. But as a grandstander, this is what the O/P is looking for...

right? Are you not being somewhat hypocritical?

[seabeyond]

268. no, i dont see hypocrisy and i dont interpret the op as you do.

maybe because i am a smoker i understand a bit more what he was trying to express. always interested where i might be stepping in hypocrisy, but not seeing it here

[johnnie]

145. Wow

[smoogatz]

154. My Dad smoked a pack a day for most of his life

and died of heart disease at 65--still a young guy. His brother smoked, too, and died of a heart attack the same year, at 60. Their sister (smoker) died of a heart attack at 68. Their father (smoker) died after his second heart attack at 72. They all would have lived longer and felt better if they hadn't smoked. For me, the feeling better part was what mattered most--when I quit more than twenty years ago, I was smoking two packs a day and felt like crap--underweight, wheezing, chronic bronchitis, colds all the time, two bouts of pneumonia. I resented being a slave to something that not only made me feel like crap, but also cost a lot of money (and in those days, Marlboros were still under a buck). There were no patches, no nicotine gum, none of that shit. I just decided to quit, and I'm convinced that if I hadn't I'd be dead or seriously ill by now (I'm 47)--certainly in no shape to chase my two-year-old son around. That's my story about smoking--and here's my opinion: you're crazy not to quit. If you have a family that cares about you--a wife and kids--you're also supremely selfish. If you really believe that you're somehow choosing the manner of your own death, then you're choosing from a particularly unpleasant menu: heart disease and lung cancer are the big uglies, but there's also emphysema and a whole long laundry list of other nasty shit that can get you. Dollars to donuts, if you smoke enough long enough, it won't just be one nasty-ass debilitating illness, it'll be a combo platter--which means that the last few years of your life are likely to be a living hell for you AND your family. But hey, it's your funeral, as they say. Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette...

On edit: I hope you have good health insurance. You're gonna need it.

[seabeyond]

160. could this possibly be a genetic issue with the heart in your family

if it were my family i would at least be open to that, being the non smoker you are, otherwise you might not be as diligent on the subject you may need to be.

[smoogatz]

161. I forgot to mention my maternal grandfather

also a lifetime smoker, who died of lung cancer in his early 70s. Look, the science is clear--no one in the medical community would argue that there's any doubt about the link between smoking and a host of health issues, particularly heart disease, high blood pressure, emphysema and lung cancer. And if the OP's family history is relevant, mine must be, too. No?

[seabeyond]

164. you are right

i still think it is genetically inclined. and i would still be putting credence into the heart issue if i didnt smoke.

[Carni]

162. I quit nine days ago

It's been a pretty miserable experience so far!

[seabeyond]

165. poor baby. and hugs to you

do tell. just stop? using something? i want to know

[Carni]

234. Thanks

I had a major scare healthwise (not related to smoking or cancer as it turned out) but after my big scare I thought this is just crazy and decided to try to quit.

I started smoking when I was 15 and I am 42 now so this is pretty hard

I am using nicoderm CQ patches and they do help a lot.

Thank you for the kind words!

[smoogatz]

166. Don't give in!

A little exercise helps. Do whatever you have to do (without smoking) to get the oral satisfaction you're missing--chewing gum (furiously) worked for me, especially after meals. Take all the money you're not spending on cigarettes and put it in a jar; then every week you go without smoking, take it out and buy yourself a present. Reward yourself in creative ways every day you don't smoke. Stay away from smokers and smokey places. And here's the good news: you've really only got about five more days of the hard part to go. After the first two weeks, it gets a lot easier.

[seabeyond]

167. i like the jar of money thing. sounding like a must

[Carni]

233. Great idea about the money

Unfortunately I just had surgery so currently exercising is out of the question lol
(my incision which is large still hasn't healed over yet)but your idea ablout the money is a great incentive--thanks!

[lyonn]

228. Toughness and determination is what it takes

Lots of it. At 30 I quit cold turkey for 3 months. One evening while the family was watching tv my husband was simply sitting there eating an apple and the sound of the snap of the bite and the crunch, crunch, crunch went all over me and I thought that I almost hated him for being such a noisy eater! Stupid huh? This emotional thing had been building and that was the last full day of not smoking. Thought I was losing my mind. But---if I had held out a bit longer and not weakened it could have been a success! or -- divorced. Truly I was too close to conquering it to fail and buy that damn pack of cig the next day.

Think I am what you call a quitter. So many around me have conquered the habit, so more succeed than fail. HANG IN THERE!!!!

[Carni]

232. Well I had a hell of a scare recently

I found out I had a large tumor and had the pleasure of sitting around for 5 weeks waiting for surgery to get the thing removed -- until it was out, there was no way of knowing if it was malignant or not.

Anyway it was benign, but I had the pleasure of going to a cancer center prior to my surgery to see my Dr and it scared the shit out of me seeing all the people there in various states of misery.

Thanks for the kind words and I hope I can continue to not smoke although I am not all that hopeful (to be completely honest)

I wouldn't be as concerned about quitting, but I have a family history of cancer so between that and the smoking I think I was playing with fire.

[Bonobo]

168. My Dad.

Guy should have been dead so many years ago. Surgeon, incredibly high stress type. Angry, 75 pounds overweight his whole life. Smoked 60 years. Still alive.

By the way, I quit 8 months ago. Glad that I did but I still miss many aspects of smoking. I just don't want my kids to do it. It's so socially unacceptable now that even if it didn't ruin their health, it would probably ruin their social life at some point.

All I got to say is that non-smokers are too fucking judgmental by half. They sound like fundies or republicans. They (we, now) should shut the hell up.

Personally, I got a problem with people who buy lottery ticket, but I don't go around hassling them or starting posts about it.

[Kingshakabobo]

171. Someone should do a search of the.........

......"I'm a smoker" threads versus the counter point and see who starting the most posts about it............The OP is a serial offender.

Just sayin....

[Kingshakabobo]

169. Another "smoking success story"..Kudos!

You should do tobacco ads!

In my family, we are batting 1000. My mom died of lung cancer and my father, who quit 20+ years ago, has emphysema.

Your success stories are insensitive self denying bullshit. That's fine. There are a lot of people on DU who have lost family to cigarette related illnesses and your constant "rubbing our noses" in your "tobacco success stories" is rude ......

Give it a rest already...we get it.

[SidDithers]

202. Well said...

personal stories are essentially meaningless.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Sid

[LWolf]

172. I don't really care whether you smoke or not.

So what's your point, really? Is somebody picking on you?

I mean, I care in the abstract that you may damage your health, but I respect your right to make your own choice.

I expect that your right to choose will not drift over into anyone else's lungs; that's common sense and common courtesy. I'm sure you, in return, respect the rights of those who choose not to smoke or breathe second-hand smoke. Is that what this is about?

I come from a family of smokers. The only one left alive is my mother, who quit almost 30 years ago. My father and grandfather died of heart attacks at relatively young ages. My grandmother died of emphysema. My first husband, the father of my children, died of a brain tumor. All tobacco related? Who knows. I'm sure there are other environmental factors, and maybe some genetic factors as well. I'm also sure that smoking may have shortened their lifespan somewhat. Their choice. I don't begrudge them that choice, or you yours.

[many a good man]

175. Smoking AND drinking

A wise old man once told me "you can smoke or you can drink, but if you do both you're going to die young." He listed a number of people we knew in common and sure enough some were long-lived heavy drinkers and some were long-lived heavy smokers. But NONE of them both drank AND smoked. He then listed a bunch of people who did both and they all died young.

How does this observation match with your experience? My great grandfather lived to 95 and he was both a heavy smoker and drinker, as well as a notorious skirt chaser. I wonder if it was the skirt chasing that broke the pattern???

[etherealtruth]

177. I live in a glass house

... the last thing I want to do is throw stones.

[Kingshakabobo]

182. Do you, by chance, work for big tobacco????

You are worse than Bill O"Lielly and his phony baloney war on Christmas.




"Second Hand Drinking" And you thought smoking was bad....
Topic started by The Straight Story on Jul-06-06 03:31 PM (14 replies)
Last modified by guinivere on Jul-06-06 07:58 PM

Smoking Sections Not Safe Enough, Report Says
Topic started by The Straight Story on Jun-27-06 01:01 PM (10 replies)
Last modified by Warpy on Jun-27-06 07:59 PM

New 'Nicotine Water' Targets Flying Smokers
Topic started by The Straight Story on Jun-19-06 03:57 PM (16 replies)
Last modified by bbinacan on Jun-19-06 05:46 PM

Where we do well, and where we need to improve (personal analysis of dems)
Topic started by The Straight Story on May-13-06 08:41 PM (4 replies)
Last modified by The Straight Story on May-13-06 09:30 PM

bush, rove, et al fuel the hatred of government in general - shrink it??
Topic started by The Straight Story on May-12-06 11:26 PM (1 replies)
Last modified by lvx35 on May-13-06 12:03 AM

Home evicts 75-year- old amputee, smoker
Topic started by The Straight Story on May-12-06 10:40 AM (98 replies)
Last modified by NorthernSpy on May-12-06 06:00 PM

Kentucky prison bans tobacco; others may follow
Topic started by The Straight Story on May-08-06 09:50 AM (1 replies)
Last modified by Ciggies and coffee on May-08-06 11:05 AM


Ya know, people are STILL smoking in bars here - ban has no effect
Topic started by The Straight Story on Mar-28-06 12:03 AM (89 replies)
Last modified by ramblin_dave on Mar-28-06 07:07 PM

Smoking in private clubs can be banned, too
Topic started by The Straight Story on Mar-26-06 12:54 PM (24 replies)
Last modified by The Straight Story on Mar-28-06 01:19 AM

Alcohol and Crime - heck with banning smoking in bars, maybe ban beer?
Topic started by The Straight Story on Mar-21-06 06:50 PM (140 replies)
Last modified by rman on Mar-23-06 07:43 PM


Teacher Resigns Over School Play Flap - smoking/drinking/kissing
Topic started by The Straight Story on Mar-18-06 12:54 PM (3 replies)
Last modified by Blue Belle on Mar-18-06 01:35 PM

Smoking Ban Irks Retirement Home Residents
Topic started by The Straight Story on Feb-20-06 08:51 PM (10 replies)
Last modified by NuttyFluffers on Feb-20-06 09:47 PM

A co-op votes to declare itself smoke-free, and potential buyers fume
Topic started by The Straight Story on Feb-20-06 01:25 AM (5 replies)
Last modified by TahitiNut on Feb-20-06 09:58 AM

Alcohol should be banned
Topic started by The Straight Story on Feb-19-06 10:22 AM (32 replies)
Last modified by Katherine Brengle on Feb-19-06 11:13 AM


Rising health care costs - don't blame smokers, blame technology and insurance expansion
Topic started by The Straight Story on Dec-06-06 10:35 PM (3 replies)
Last modified by TahitiNut on Dec-06-06 11:12 PM

Standing up to bullies - no, not in school: Companies and Government bullies
Topic started by The Straight Story on Dec-01-06 03:47 PM (4 replies)
Last modified by Crandor on Dec-01-06 08:03 PM



HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home
Topic started by The Straight Story on Nov-17-06 01:25 PM (8 replies)
Last modified by JulieRB on Nov-17-06 06:39 PM

Ahhh, The 'Slippery Slope' Argument - seems all too clear (though a better term is needed)
Topic started by The Straight Story on Nov-16-06 06:25 PM (50 replies)
Last modified by radfringe on Nov-17-06 08:57 AM

So now we are in power - what do you want to ban/restrict others from doing?
Topic started by The Straight Story on Nov-15-06 07:01 PM (44 replies)
Last modified by JeffR on Nov-16-06 09:04 AM

Nicotine helps people with Parkinson's
Topic started by The Straight Story on Nov-11-06 03:00 PM (14 replies)
Last modified by tridim on Nov-12-06 10:43 AM



Witch'attire' and smoking not allowed (somewhere I went today)
Topic started by The Straight Story on Oct-22-06 12:00 AM (67 replies)
Last modified by The Straight Story on Oct-22-06 08:45 PM

BC students to vote on smoking restrictions (and my view on it all)
Topic started by The Straight Story on Oct-18-06 07:41 PM (11 replies)
Last modified by kiahzero on Oct-19-06 12:20 AM



Has DU made a difference in the world of politics since it's inception?
Topic started by The Straight Story on Oct-18-06 08:15 PM (22 replies)
Last modified by Quixote1818 on Oct-18-06 09:07 PM


Do you feel most fellow humans are more inclined to sin than not?
Topic started by The Straight Story on Oct-03-06 10:26 PM (20 replies)
Last modified by Binka on Oct-04-06 07:52 AM

Smoking as child abuse and used in custody battles - Discuss
Topic started by The Straight Story on Oct-03-06 09:40 PM (19 replies)
Last modified by pooja on Oct-04-06 06:33 AM
Last modified by Ecumenist on Oct-03-06 02:28 AM


Should we attack China or NK if they allow people to smoke??
Topic started by The Straight Story on Jul-11-06 02:30 AM (8 replies)
Last modified by patricia92243 on Jul-11-06 06:37 AM

[JohnLocke]

184. Anecdotes trump 60 years of research

Woot.

[frustrated_lefty]

190. and who pays for the research?

And, who benefits by the discovery, one way or another?

[Marie26]

199. What's the insinuation

Those nasty non-profit charities like the American Heart Association are faking the results to - what - increase their profits?

[frustrated_lefty]

208. Normally, I'd just ignore this, maybe take your insinuation

for fact.

But, after being at the hands of the American Red Cross as a Katrina survivor, NO, I do NOT think these agencies exist for solely humanitarian purposes, and YES, I DO think they will fund studies which justify their survival and undercut studies which question their findings.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

210. You mean, all those studies...

that the tobacco companies did that linked tobacco to cancer, and then they hid, were just some sort of goof up?

Seriously... what's in those cigarettes you're smoking?

[frustrated_lefty]

211. Is that what I said? No. Maybe you could apply

as a republican ad designer. Point out ANY place in this thread I have defended tobacco companies or said they were nice guys. They're not. But, the rabid anti-smoking crowd which dictates you can't smoke in your vehicle, you can't smoke in your home needs to get a fucking grip.

[brook]

220. um.

Before getting too righteous you might want to check out their 990 and see what the honchos drag down per year. Just sayin'.

[LSK]

225. the tobacco companies certainly did not benefit

[pdrichards114]

189. I have been quit now for 6 days and counting.

But, I think non-smokers should STFU about smokers and smoking. I quit after 15 years of smoking. Loved it, still love it, wish I could smoke, but it IS bad for us. Maybe/Maybe Not as bad as the Non-Smoking propenents tout. But godamnit, more people die in carwrecks each year but do you see the same people clammoring to ban cars. Hell no!!! Smokers are a much easier target than drivers and you non-smokers are bullies.

[Vidar]

193. I am a lifetime non-smoker & I agree with you. Prhibition & Puritanism

don't work.

[frustrated_lefty]

194. I chain smoke.

I save the tar and nicotine in my lungs just so I can blow it right in your child's face. I save the stench of it to share with you as you walk your dog, shitting on my lawn. I share it with you as you place your hideous lawn decorations, which depreciate the value of my property, directly affecting the finances going in to MY children's college funds. I light up a new one every time I see you or your pustulent, obese selves waddling to the nearest fast food store. Smell the smoke, and keep the hell away.

[we can do it]

195. Smoke All You Want - Just Don't Share It With Me

To each his own.

Peace

[treestar]

196. I don't smoke, but I see your point

Second hand smoke never really bothers me - those whom it does just need to stay home. All kinds of noise pollution bothers me, but I don't expect it to go away. My choice is stay home or put up with it.

We really need to learn to concentrate on the big threats and leave the little ones be, in this society. We are petty beyond belief. Demanding that the government step in on everything to make it perfect for us and then getting angry to find that "perfect" is not the same for everybody.

[Dora]

197. A good friend of mine is a respiratory therapist.

For a number of years, he worked for a law firm that specialized in asbestos-related class action lawsuits. He would travel to various communities and test people for asbestosis and other conditions. He is convinced that genetics has more to do with how smoking affects the individual than smoking by itself. He would see men in their 60s and 70s who'd been smoking their entire lives but had the lung capacity of much younger men. Then he would see a 30 year old smoker who had been smoking for maybe 10-15 years, but couldn't blow out a candle.

I had a beloved aunt die an agonizing lung cancer death in her 50s. She never smoked a cigarette in her life and was a vegetarian for nearly all of her adult life.

Yeah, smoking is a foul and expensive habit, but that's the smoker's business. I smoked for 20 years and I still miss it sometimes. I could never condemn anybody for smoking.

[Marie26]

198. Statistically, smokers are more likely to get cancer,

heart disease, and other fatal diseases. The life expectancy for smokers is 12-14 years less than non-smokers. That's just the truth.

[OnionPatch]

201. My father died of lung cancer

and smoked most of his life. Yes, he was in his late sixties, but he probably could have lived much longer. Longevity is hereditary in his family. My brother-in-law who is sixty, must live out the rest of his life with emphysema because he smoked until he was diagnosed.

If you want to take your chances, fine with me. Take up sky-diving and bungee jumping and wild feline training if you like....I couldn't care less what you do. But I'm sure as hell not going to tell my children it's not dangerous to smoke.

[SidDithers]

203. Smoke away...

just don't do it around me, or around others who may not have the option of avoiding you (such as children in house or car)

Sid

[pdrichards114]

205. When I smoked, I smoked outside, in the designated smoking sections!!

Anybody who walks through or near the smoking section and does that fake hem-hem cough. FUCK YOU!!! Did you hear that right? Good. We smokers don't walk up into the non-smoking sections and blow smoke just to piss you off. But your sense of entitlement to everywhere you go, including THE DESIGNATED SMOKING SECTION, is absolutely fucking infuriating.

You NON-SMOKER types are worse, in some regards, than fundementalist christo-facists.


BTW, before anybody gets up in arms about generalizations there is a very big difference between people who don't smoke and NON-SMOKERS.

[novalib]

209. I HAVE TO PASS THROUGH YOUR CLOUDS.......

I am a PROUD NON-SMOKER!!!!

I HAVE TO pass through YOUR CLOUDS of NOXIOUS, DEATH-CAUSING GASSES in order to ENTER BUILDINGS!!!!

My "HEM HEM" is NO FAKE!!!!!

And I AM NO FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTO-FASCIST!!!!!!!

SMOKING IS WAAAAAAAAYY STUPID!!!!!

WAY STUPID.

[pdrichards114]

215. Hey, go find me,one case where 2cd hand smoke was the official cause of death.

If you can I will publicly apologize, If you can't, start using the side entrance or STFU about the stink. BTW I smoked, past-tense, for 15 years and those little hem-hem coughs are fake. If they aren't, well shit, you better go see the doctor. I smoked all day and didn't cough like that. And with all that aggression you sure do sound like a christo-facist. Have a cig and mellow out.

[novalib]

235. "HAVE A CIG"??!!! "MELLOW OUT"??!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!!!

DON'T YOU INVITE ME TO TRY TO KILL MYSELF!!!!!!!!!

I Can't BELIEVE that you would suggest that I HAVE A CIG!!!!!

It's BEYOND BELIEF!!!!

And there is NO NEED for you to tell me to "MELLOW OUT"!!!!!!!

I'm QUITE MELLOW as it is!!

I have NO NEED to get ANY MORE MELLOW!!!!

And NO, those HEM HEM's are NOT FAKE!!!!!

[Crowskie]

254. Second hand smoke may not be listed as the official cause of death,

but throw asthma into the mix and yes, it can kill. Smoking is a choice, asthma is not.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

296. Sinus infections, bronchitis, allergic asthma, pneumonia too

Yeah I have scar tissue in my lungs from when my parents smoked when I was a kid. It's visible on X rays.

I almost died from non-pathogenic bacterial pneumonia and had to have my lungs rinsed out to save my life, when I was grown and under stress. This happened four times in five years.

[JeffR]

217. So is screaming

You're giving me a virtual headache with all the virtual shouting.

And leave some exclamation points for the rest of DU, will ya?

SHEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!

[novalib]

236. HERE! I'll Return Some Exclamation Points!

Here are some extra exclamation points for YOU, JeffR:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and !!!!!!!!!!!!! and DO NOT Forget !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, just for the rest of DU:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish there was an exCALMation point!

[brook]

221. Stop screaming.

It's fucking annoying.

[rucky]

238. I think you forgot a few exclamation marks.

I'm series 1111!!!11

[novalib]

239. FORGOT????!!!!!!

I forgot some exclamation points??!!!!

I FORGOT some exclamation points??!!!!!

I DON'T think so!!!

Here's one: !

Here are four more:!! ! !

And there are ten here (one is kind of naughty!): !!!! ! !!!!

[REP]

248. I Really, Really Hope You Live In My Town

Because I smoke. I smoke a LOT. In public. And I love that "hem hem" noise.

[novalib]

333. You REALLY REALLY Hope....

Do you really???!!

REALLY REALLY???!!!!!

I'm not sure I understand the basis for such an odd hope.

You REALLY hope I live in your because you smoke a lot in public and because you LOVE that "hem hem" noise??!!

WTF??!!!

Am I to conclude the you enjoy irritating and annoying people???!!!

[REP]

356. I Enjoy Giving People A Chance to Feel Self-Righteous

Not that some need an excuse, mind.

But I do love that widdle "hem hem" noise.

[novalib]

362. HEM HEM!!!!

I still DO NOT UNDERSTAND why you hope that I live in your town???!!!!

HEM HEM

So you enjoy giving people a chance to feel self-righteous!!

SO WHAT!!!????

What has YOUR enjoyment in giving people a chance to feel self-righteous have to do with ME???!!!

HEM HEM HEM hem hem!!!

[NoBushSpokenHere]

207. Nice Post

Of those who have died that were close to me:
Non-smokers deaths

Cousin - died at 20, leukemia, non-smoker, attributed to electrical magnetic radiation exposure
Paternal Grandma - died at 72, stroke, non-smoker
Maternal Grandfather - died at 56, stroke, non-smoker
Maternal Grandmother - died at 84, aneurysm, non-smoker
Maternal Uncle - died at 36, heart attack, non-smoker
Maternal Uncle - died at 73, stroke, non-smoker
Friend - died at 44, heart attack, quit taking heart medicine because of cost of drugs, non-smoker
Friend - died at 40, heart attack, non-smoker, obese
Friend - died at 74, pancreatic cancer, non-smoker
Friend - died at 71, lung cancer, non-smoker, worked in factory with high rate of cancer deaths
Friend - died at 56, lung cancer, non-smoker, worked in factory with high rate of cancer deaths
Friend - died at 70, congestive heart failure, wouldn't seek medical attention due to lack of health insurance.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Smoker Deaths but non attributed to smoking

Paternal Grandfather - died at 89, fluid build-up in lungs from a mistake a doctor made during an unrelated procedure, smoker
Mother - died at 74, aneurysm, smoker
Maternal Aunt - died of brain cancer caused directly attributed to a rubber factory she was working in, smoker
Paternal Aunt - died at 77, colon cancer caused by hair dye, smoker
Paternal Uncle - died at 65, mesothilioma (sp.?), attributed to direct asbestos exposure for 20 years, smoker
Cousin - died at 20 - ATV accident, smoker

I currently have 3 aunts in their 70's with aneurysms living, one is a smoker, two are non-smokers. I have one aunt who is 87 who is a smoker, no known health problems.

I believe what I see, and I do not see factors attributing do any deaths of anyone close to me due to smoking.

[nini]

216. Some of those smokers may still be alive if they didn't smoke

Some die of other things, but some die because the smoking wreaked havoc on their bodies and killed them.


Deny that if you want but it is true. Just as being an alcoholic or morbidly obese can kill someone or take years off their lives.

Doing anything on a long term basis that is harmful to our biological makeup is playing the odds.

[brook]

223. Hanging around long term

has the same result.

[nini]

226. but you lived your full potential

.

[brook]

231. who's to say?

maybe if things in my life - not having any connection to smoking - had been different, I'd have written the great American novel or found a cure for the common cold? Who knows what anyone's 'potential' is? Besides the same 'power' who determines our life span, that is.

[dnbmathguy]

237. The way the word "non-smoker" is being used here...

...you'd think we were worse than Republicans.

I don't care if people smoke or not. All I know is that I am extremely sensitive to cigarette/cigar smoke. As such, whenever possible, I avoid situations where I might come into contact with it - no restaurants with smoking sections for me. If you want to smoke in designated smoking sections, or in the privacy of your own home, be my guest. However, claiming that smoking is not harmful is ludicrous.

[frustrated_lefty]

242. Well:

I don't know a smoker who claims it isn't harmful. Smoking is a matter of picking your poison. Some smokers may seem rabid. You've eliminated smoking sections in restauraunts. In some cases, you've made it impossible for a person to pursue a person's chosen career if they smoke. New laws are making it illegal to smoke in a vehicle you drive or even your own home. So, yeah, you anti-smokers come off a little like rabid neo-fascist pukes.

If this shit doesn't stop, I and a lot of other smokers are going to become a lot less tolerant of other people's foibles. Vegetarians, get your methane producing asses away from my kids and STOP poisoning them. Fatties, pay for the extra ticket and actually pay for the space you occupy.

Start a little closer to home before you start ranting about those nasty smokers.

[Crunchy Frog]

312. Equating non-smokers with anti-smokers.

I don't choose to smoke, and that makes me some kind of fascist? For the record, I don't give a damn what other people choose to do with their bodies, so long as they don't impose their choices on me.

I don't like breathing cigarette smoke. I am very glad that I can eat in a restaraunt and not have to breathe it. You're perfectly free to hate me for feeling that way. I really don't give a shit.

[Chico Man]

243. Quality vs. quantity

I just feel as though I'd rather take care of my posessions, and that includes my body. I know what it feels like to run around the block as a smoker and a non-smoker. I know what it feels like to fly in a plane for 6 hours bugging out to nicotine withdrawal. I know what it feels like to be looked at with scorn and discontent because of how my habit was making others feel.

I know what it feels like to smoke through a cold, or the flu.. even though it makes you feel like shit, you still need the rush..

My great aunt died on cancer at 90, and smoked from 15-70.

My father still smokes non filter Pal-Mals, he started at 16.. he's now 70. We refuses to go to the doctor for anything.

My wife smokes and likes to build up these nasty little rain filled jars of cigareete buts out on the deck.

It's a quality of life issue for me.. not quantity of life.

[BlackVelvet04]

244. I have lived with pretty severe

physical pain for 40 years of my life. 2 metal rods and six screws in my back ensure that I spend a lot of time feeling like shit. I kicked the pain pill addiction that the docs were so accommodating of, I no longer drink. I also got rid of the medications the docs gave me to help me sleep when the pain pills didn't help the pain. The strongest thing I take now is ibuprofen.

I enjoy smoking. I'm going to continue to smoke.

To those who get all bent out of shape over a whiff of smoke: Lots of things cause me discomfort in this life. Mall doors that are too heavy. Chairs that are too hard. Concrete floors. And you know what? I had to grow up and realize the world doesn't OWE IT TO ME to keep me out of pain. It's nice when the person in front of me holds a door open for me, but they don't OWE ME THAT.

I read a quote one time and don't remember who wrote it but the gist of it was: The immature seek to transform the world to suit them, the mature adapt to the world. I had to learn to adapt to a world not very accommodating to someone who is in pain but has no discernible disability.

I highly recommend Al-Anon for those who think you can and should have control over others.

[LeftishBrit]

272. Actually, I disagree with you - I think that the world owes you far more than you think it does!

To begin with, I hope that your pain, and other people's unawareness of your needs, are not affecting your life too badly!

I think that the world DOES owe it to others to reduce their pain as much as possible, and to accommodate to others' special health needs and disabilities, as well as other vulnerabilities. In fact, to me this belief is at the core of liberalism, and (taking into account all vulnerabilities and needs, social and economic as well as physical), is indeed what differentiates right-wing from left-wing ideology. The right-wing view is that people's needs and vulnerabilities are entirely their own problem; and that no individual or society owes anyone else any help or accommodation unless they choose to do so, or it is part of a private contract. The left-wing/ liberal view (to me) is that one of the main duties of an individual or country is to help to create a society where people's genuine needs are accommodated as much as possible, and where it is a social, as well as an individual responsibility, to help everyone to overcome or miminize the disadvantages, whether physical or economic, with which they start.

There may be debates about the extent to which this is possible and practicable in a given situation. The UK's Disability Discrimination Act of 1994 requires employers, etc. to make 'reasonable accommodation' to people with disabilities or health needs - of course, there will always be arguments about what is 'reasonable'. And of course, you can't blame people who, for example, don't hold the door open for you if they don't realize that you need it. But if you've expressed your need, then, yes, I think that they do have a moral, if not a legal, duty to hold the door open.

As regards smoking, I don't think that government should be in the business of prohibiting and punishing behaviours which only affect the individual - whether smoking, drug use, eating choices, etc. I think it's fair to have designated smoking and non-smoking areas, so that people who need to smoke can do so, and those who cannot cope with smoke are not required to do so, or to seriously restrict their own lives to avoid it. To smell a bit of smoke when passing someone in the street is unlikely to cause serious pain or hardship to anyone, though some people may find it monentarily unpleasant. For people with asthma and the like to be unable to go to places of entertainment, or, worse, to be seriously restricted in their employment choices, because there is no option but to spend long hours in a smoky environment, *is* serious hardship. IMO, there have to be restrictions on where people can smoke (just as there need to be some restrictions on where people can drive, eat, etc.); but restrictions that are too draconian do more harm than good.

[BlackVelvet04]

335. Thank you....

I guess part of my problem is the fact I don't like to ask for anything. I'm stubborn and that has served me well in overcoming my physical problems but has probably allowed some obstacles to stay in my way as well.

I went back to college a couple of years ago and I ended up not finishing because of the pain I was caused in having to carry so many supplies to class. A portfolio, books, art case, photography supplies, etc. got to be too much for me to handle. I had a 4.0 average, too. I don't know if there is anything the college could have done to accommodate me or not.

I was taught that I'm not owed anything. I guess it's deeply ingrained.

[HughMoran]

245. Grandstanding...

...is a pleasure we all enjoy, as allowed for on internet forums like this one - all the power too ya.

In my family and personal experience as a smoker for 20 years, my life is a LOT better since I quit, but I do not preach. I quit after my grandfather asphyxiated from emphysema and my uncle died from smoking related cancer. I do not preach - just adding my personal experience to the mix since you brought it up.

[gulliver]

249. Rights 10, Science 2.

My personal statistics. Five (5) grandparents/step-grandparents have died. Four (4) from cancer or heart disease. All four smokers. I think all of them were "We all have to die" subscribers until they got the cancer or heart disease. Then they all changed their decision immediately -- too late though.

[Kingshakabobo]

281. The saddest part of my mom dying from cancer........

.......was trying to comfort her when she was down on her self for, in her words, being stupid enough to smoke. Of course, no one said "I told you so" but she did it her self. That really was the worst part.

[Jersey Devil]

251. Smoking is definitely not good for you but does it kill you?

I look at it this way - anything that can cut down the amount of oxygen going into your blood cannot possibly be good for you.

Now, my Dad was an asbestos worker, a member of the "pipe coverers" union. He mixed asbestos cement, covered pipes with asbestos, sewed canvas around the asbestos insulation he installed, and also smoked 3 packs of Pall Mall a day. He quit smoking and 13 years later he died of lung cancer at the age of 68, specifically "oat cell" carncinoma apparently caused by the asbestos.

So, OK, smoking may or may not actually kill you. But it sure doesn't help your body obtain oxygen and though I am no scientist or doctor, I'd bet it doesn't help you at all to resist other carcinogens, like asbestos, that without a doubt do cause cancer.

Let's face it. You don't have to be a scientist or a doctor to conclude that someone leading a healthy lifestyle with more oxygen entering their bloodstream (a non-smoker) is more likely to avoid diseases that a weakened person, with less oxygen, might not be able to.

So where is my simple logic wrong?

[seabeyond]

270. i dont think it is wrong

and i think your post pretty much represents whwt the poster was saying. i can only speak for myself but i think the point of the thread is so often the smoker is attacked with smoke, you die. that isnt factual. most smokers i know (since i am olde) all want to quit. all of us see it is not good. all of us feel there is a monkey on our back. personally i hate it and have had a half decade battle with the things. that alone has brought a negative into my life i do not like living.

but the point is the perception of the smoker (dirtbag, as stated in another post) or you smoke you die. we all die. it is not factual that all smokers will die at a young age from a smoking related illness. no one is validating smoking, just can we be realistic about it or must we live in this absurd reality non smokers create for all of us to live.

[Danger Mouse]

252. Smoke if you want...

...but leave me out of it. I don't want to breathe your poisoned air =P
My grandfather died a slow death of emphysema.
It wasn't pretty. Convinced me to never, ever become a smoker.
Anyway...I don't have a problem with people smoking. You know the risks, you make the choice, the consequences are on your head.
Kind of like eating cheeseburgers all the time. Urgh, I'm so fat.

[G Hawes]

253. Smoking kills, drinking kills, breathing kills, driving kills...

While it is certainly good to try to minimize risk by avoiding known dangers, the reality is that ultimately, we'll all die, and most of us by means that have nothing at all to do with smoking.

And for the record, no, I don't smoke. I do, however, find the current tendency to blame every medical mishap on smoking as ill founded. I don't know when exactly the American public stopped taking responsibility for themselves and their own voluntary actions and decided that playing the "victim" and blaming others for their poor choices came into vogue...

[fishnfla]

261. Wow. Using dead family and friends to prove a selfish point

Probably as low as it gets man, congratulations.

[unblock]

262. go ahead and smoke. just don't exhale in public.

you wanna exercise your freedom to commit slow suicide? fine. not my place to stop you.

it's the bit about inflicting that filth on the rest of us that i have a problem with.

switch to chew, gum, or patch; or limit your smoking to when you're around only consenting adults.

thank you!

[Czolgosz]

266. I'm a nonsmoker recovering from nasopharyngeal cancer which the doctors at MD Anderson

link to prolonged exposure to secondhand smoke (both my parents were 2-pack-a-day smokers).

Go figure.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

298. Yep, MD Anderson is an excellent institution

Biggest cancer hospital in the world. My mom was treated there (breast cancer) and survived another 23 years.

My sister used to work in the Cytology department. She died of primary brain cancer unfortunately.

[I Have A Dream]

267. I don't care what anyone else does. However, I'd like to be able to go...

to a small indoor venue and listen to live music without leaving feeling terrible and smelling disgusting because one or two people insist on exercising their "right" to smoke while there.

Bottom line: Have at it, but please don't impact my life or my choices either.

Peace.

[mdmc]

275. FREEDOM

Live free or die!
Thanks for the post.

[TankLV]

278. It's not good for you - I wish you'd quit - but it's your choice.

I have the same issue with my partner - he smokes too - but I don't ever make an issue of it.

I feel we could all die tomorrow in some car crash or something else, we've made it over 52 years so far!!!

[jelly]

302. how do you know it's not good for "you"

The anecdotal evidence suggest that some life-long smokers live relatively long lives without any major health problems and die of non-smoking related causes. Some aren't so lucky, and die of cigarette-related problems. Yet YOU can't tell apart the lucky from the unlucky, so it is simply false for you to say smoking is not good for universal or particular "you." Certainly the medical evidence makes apparent that individuals are taking a gamble with the longevity of their lives when they decide to smoke but it should be up to the individual and not the government or elitist fellow citizens to make the decision about what gambles and trade-offs people wish to make in their own lives.

Moreover, even for those who lose the gamble, it's not as though the gamble was lost without anything to show for it. Smoking enhances lives, for a pack-a-day smoker injecting 20 moments of pleasure into each and every day. That smoking is pleasurable is such an obvious thing to me as an ex-smoker yet something I don't hear enough of in this politically-correct world where disdain for smokers is the talking point of the day. Many who have never smoked might find it hard to understand, but take it from me: smoking brings about a complete sense of relaxation without the concurrent loss of control such as what one might feel with other drugs that make you feel relaxed. It is a marvelous drug; one that is pleasurable enough that you look forward to taking it in every day, yet allows people to maintain a normal everyday job and in general, an ordinary human existence. In addition, anyone who has ever felt that special sense of camaraderie that comes with standing around smoking with others or who has bummed a spare cigarette to a grateful fellow smoker in need can tell you that smoking enhances and encourages socialization. For people who are anxious by nature, the psychological benefits of smoking are even more significant than for the average person of a calmer nature. I think bringing back into the public discourse between smokers and non-smokers the frank acknowledgment that smoking is pleasurable and can be beneficial to a person's life would inject a sense of mutual respect back into the debate such as what I have not seen for a while. And when I say respect, I mean true respect, not the false or grudging respect evident in statement such as, "what stupid habits you want to partake in in the privacy of your own home is up to you. Just don't impose your awful dirty choices on me." Instead, smokers are owed the authentic respect that comes with acknowledging that there is logic supporting a person's decision to smoke, even if the decision is one you would not wish to make in your own life, because, for instance, you value having a clear singing voice over the pleasure of smoking, or because you value longevity of life over the pleasure of smoking over the course of a shortened lifetime. Which is exactly what happened in my case; I smoked on and off for 7 years and loved it. Eventually I quit when smoking seemed to be hurting my singing voice. I decided that I love singing too much to let anything, even something as pleasurable as smoking, get in its way. It's been five years since I quit cold turkey. My voice returned within a year and my health seems fine. As far as I'm concerned, I won the gamble, but even if I don't, I will not be terribly upset at having lost, because I know that life is short and I would have died eventually anyhow (perhaps of a MORE painful death), because I will be grateful that I was allowed to live a life full of free choices, and because I will not forget that for the time I smoked, I honestly enjoyed myself very much.

[Beelzebud]

290. As a non-smoker, I'd just like to say the control freaks embarrass me.

I don't see these control freaks protesting about industrial air pollution.

[TahitiNut]

305. Amen.

I don't see ANYONE, no matter how terribly sensitive, even wearing a breathing filter. Not once. (Except in Japan.) If I were that sensitive and my health were jeopardized, I'd invest a couple of bucks before I waged some religious war against others because of my own health issues. (Industrial pollution. Smoke stacks. Wood smoke. Barbecues. Cigars. Cars. Trucks. and so on.) The fact of the matter is, no matter how zealous I fought that war, I'd STILL be susceptible until I won. Why would I expose myself in the meantime? That's be STUPID. Right? (Unless, of course, it REALLY wasn't that big a deal to me.)

[seabeyond]

307. that is all. thank you. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

My Two Cents.

I don't think smoking is good for you.

A lot of people do things which aren't good for them and that is their right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

My Two Cents.

I don't think smoking is good for you.

A lot of people do things which aren't good for them and that is their right.

[Bluebear]

304. That was six cents :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

300. My Two Cents.

I don't think smoking is good for you.

A lot of people do things which aren't good for them and that is their right.

[judaspriestess]

301. my feelings

It just boggles my mind that women especially smoke and get those disgusting vertical wrinkles above their lips from puckering up. laura bush is a prime example of having those grooves. They are deep grooves, cracks, wrinkles and every time they talk the skin indents inward. Why suck the nutrients out of your skin and age yourself prematurely? Its more prevalent in women. I have a friend who is about 51, nice looking lady but she is just wrinkling up from the cigarettes, she looks ten years older and the wrinkles above her lips..........

[seabeyond]

308. because after all our worth, especially women, is only skin deep?

[ctaylor721a]

310. anecdotal vs. empirical

I think this is a standard case where we need to decide whether empirical evidence is more important than anecdotal evidence, or not.

[seabeyond]

314. assuming of course the empirical evidence isn't tainted with agenda

or bias or desire direct behavior by flawed observation or experiments. in other words, that the studies can be trusted and not for the purpose to eradicate an undesired behavior. be surely this wouldn't be done.

one could say that bushco had the studies created to suggest a war, but anecdotal evidence allowed many to challenge the falsehood and illusion created for us to believe in order to support their war thru agenda based information.

[Seabiscuit]

324. BINGO!

When it comes to either pro-tobacco or anti-tobacco studies (the only ones there are, really), all I can say is:

SHTUDDIES, SCHMUDDIES!

[NV1962]

311. You NEED the nanny state on the wall...

Pity that so few consider the pieces of $#!% that pass for newspapers and news programs on radio/TV as noxious and life-threatening (hey, the war in Iraq killed far more people than cigarettes ever could accomplish in that country...)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

315. so do smokers have an oral fixation? If yes, how do you rid

yourself of an oral fixation? You never see
any articles or books on that.

[BlueStateBlue]

318. I stopped smoking 8 years ago because I was worrying so much about my health.

It was difficult, and I'm glad the quitting is behind me. Had a hard time dealing with the "never again" concept, so I told myself that I would start again on my 70th birthday, when I'd be on borrowed time anyway.

I may do it, too, because it really is enjoyable.

It's your body, do what you want.

Nobody dies healthy.

[LoZoccolo]

319. I am a joker. n/t

[NV1962]

328. I'm a midnight toker (n/t)

[Maine-ah]

320. Don't expect to be able to smoke in public then

I don't care if you smoke in your home or in your car, fine. But, stop standing in front of business entrances, and don't toss your butt out your car window, and don't smoke around kids if you have them. (this is not necessarily directed at the op, but the inconsiderate smokers) I have no problem if you want to smoke, but don't force it on me.

I'm a former smoker, I quit (cold turkey) this past feb. when I found out I was pregnant. I had smoked since I was fifteen years old, I am now thirty two. The whole time I was pregnant, cig smoke made me ill, literally, I threw up several times because of someone else being inconsiderate. My husband still smokes. Not in the house though. I don't harp on him about it though, but he's considerate about it, and he doesn't smoke around the baby of course.

[ComerPerro]

325. good for you. enjoy your pathetic slavery to tobacco companies. but, please

keep your nasty habit out of my face.

[B Calm]

334. My mom died of lung cancer at 49 years old. My closest friend

die of cancer at 38 years old. My uncle died of lung cancer at 53 years old.

[Bluebear]

337. Ugh

So, so young.

[Tyo]

336. Who cares?

It's up to you. As long as I don't have to breathe it.

[Upfront]

340. Feel Free!

Just don't force me to breath your smoke.

[Bake]

343. Wow! This thread is still kickin'!!

One of the better smoking threads I've seen in a while! Complete with interpersonal nastiness, nanny-tude, superiority attitudes, etc.! Good one!

Me, I think I'll go have a smoke.

Bake

[Bluebear]

347. I'm going to take it up again

if I keep reading these threads!

[dave29]

344. Smoking is an addiction

you are addicted to tobacco. It is not your "chosen form of stress relief". It is your body telling you that is the only way you can get stress relief.

This is not a holier than though sentiment, it's a statement of fact, left out of your OP.

Personally, I was addicted to crystal meth. I smoked it, I snorted it. I stopped.

It was bad for me, it was bad for my family, it was bad for my community.

I'd recommend the same to all smokers.

That's about it.

-Dave

[RC Quake]

352. I'm curious...

I smoke. I have my first 2 in the morning with my coffee before I leave for work. I have my next few in the evening after work when I return home. I don't smoke outside of my own residence...which is actually limited to the garage and back yard. Why? Because I don't want to anyone else to be bothered with my smoke.

Am I addicted? I think not. I go all day, every day without one...and need I say, without craving one. When I go on vacation or business trips and am in public quite often, I don't smoke the entire time. Am I addicted? I think not.

People can use it as a stress reducer, and do all the time. It's my choice over alcohol and food...2 other very common stress reducers. I have proven over and over that I can take it or leave it. If I feel someday that it is slowing me down too much physically, I may just stop completely. Until then, I will continue to light up in my own home where I am not bothering anyone else in the entire world.

Am I addicted? I think not.

[seabeyond]

357. i have heard of a few like you. totally impressed

not many can do that. wish i could. maybe it is a mind set of not telling self i am quitting, hence feeling of lack and might allow the cut down, which really makes them pretty non harmful, (the fewer you have). i like this attitude. and good for you.

[RC Quake]

359. Hey, I'm not looking for praise...

I just get tired of people broad-brushing smokers as inconsiderate, addicted, littering, self-defeatists. I've actually been more annoyed with the disgusting way some people inhale their food in public lacking any form of table manners. For example, this morning when going to a meeting I stopped to ask the receptionist a question. She proceeded to talk to me with a mouthful of carmel corn. I was forced to view the contents of her mouth through her 30 second response.

Believe me, every time I see someone throwing a cigarette out of their car window, I want to smash their face in. At least make them pay about $1,000 fine.

I smoke for relaxation and am not one of "those" smokers.

[seabeyond]

360. you simply made me think.

might of helped me a bit with a struggle.

didnt mean to praise you, wink.

and the receptionist,.... ooooosh, bad form

[Duppers]

348. EX-SMOKER here! You're full of it!

I was a 3-pack a day smoker for 25+ yrs. I won't bore you with my lung and health problems, but I'll tell you you're full of shit!

[Javaman]

351. Bottom line: smoking is a privilege not a right. nt

[seabeyond]

358. privilege not a right... flying, freedom, health care, .... i am so tired of the

it is a privilege not a right bullshit. we use it with everything now. it is so all about authoritarian and control

[Javaman]

364. That's the breaks, it's still a priviledge. Just like driving a car.

If you want to change it, write your republican tabacco congress critter.

[seabeyond]

368. "privilige"

a special immunity, right or benefit enjoyed by an individual or class

so it is a right. now we can quit going around saying this made up saying it is a privilige not a right (IN ORDER TO TAKE AWAY RIGHTS), because per webster it certainly is a right.....

[Javaman]

374. Show me the law and I will abide by it, until then it's still a priviledge. :) nt

[LeftishBrit]

361. As a non-smoker, and one who dislikes cigarette smoke, I disagree here

I think once personal choices are defined as 'privileges', one is on a slippery slope. To me, at least, a 'privilege' means something that one is granted by someone in authority who can take it back at any time. I don't think that choices like smoking (which is not, by the way, a choice that I'd make, or would advise others to make if I'm asked), should come into this category.

I think that there need to be some restrictions on when and where one can smoke, just as there are on almost any activity that one does in public (one can't drive on the wrong side of the road, or sing in the library, or stand on the table in most restaurants). Smokers should be considerate. So should everyone. Although I get involved in the smoking debates myself (and have probably annoyed people on all sides of it by now), I am sometimes a bit surprised at the amount of energy that's devoted on DU JUST to smoking vs. anti-smoking, as compared with all the other activities where different people's needs can come into conflict. In real life, for example, I've observed much more frequent conflicts over noise and attempts to restrict it than I have over smoking and attempts to restrict it.

[Javaman]

365. I agree it shouldn't fall into that category, but yet it still does.

Personally, I'm against smoking for several reasons but the biggest is that because it causes cancer, it increases insurance rates across the board as a result. I feel it's unfair that because I don't smoke I have to pay a higher rate for my health insurance to cover the people on the same plan that are at a higher risk.
If the current health insurance scam/system didn't do this, I could care less if people smoked until they turned yellow.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

363. Wow! I take some time away to work and this thread is still hopping!

I have also been spending time researching carcinogens. Preparing to lobby to remove cosmetics from shelves (google it), sugary drinks (cause pancreatic cancer), and a host of other items the holier than thou non-smokers enjoy (and there are plenty that cause cancer). Might as well make you all miserable as we are. After all, it was your actions that took away our habit... funny thing about that though... psychological trick to get someone to do something that you do not want them to do is to tell them "Don't do it" - The underground smokers pathways are alive and well. Prohibition didn't stop alcohol, your ban isn't going to stop us from smoking.

[Bake]

376. Obesity, diabetes, etc. all drive up insurance rates

And these have elements of choice in them. But hey, it's not cool to chastise fat people. Just smokers. The last societal lepers.

Bake

[riskgamble]

372. Machiavelli in You

http://personality.selfip.com

This is a free personality test.
You can check out your personality types based on the following three personality theories.

1. Machiavellianism.
2. Authoritarian personality.
3. Risk Orientation.

Feel free to invite your friends to this test.
Thanks.