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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 09:02 PM
Original message
"Need a response to a President who engages in...misconduct. Otherwise, the record can be rewritten"
“Yes, impeachment is necessary, because, with President Nixon, his resignation in the face of certain impeachment meant that you couldn’t rewrite that history. You couldn’t come back and say he really was a great president. No, he wasn’t a great president. And here you had the verdict -- a fair, responsible, bi-partisan verdict of the House Judiciary Committee. You need to have a response to a President who engages in this kind of grave misconduct. Otherwise, the record can be rewritten. The history can be changed. You cannot change a vote. You cannot change the facts that are behind that vote. And that’s the reason President Nixon has been disgraced to this very day. And it’s not just his acts. The impeachment put those acts in a legal context, and put a ribbon around that package and said to history, to future presidents, to the American people, to the world -- we’re not going to stand for a President who abuses his power. So now what’s the message? We’ll let someone else take that responsibility? You can’t hand off that responsibility to somebody else. It’s our responsibility of our times, of our generation. And what kind of Constitution are we going to hand down to our children and grandchildren?” --Elizabeth Holtzman

Elizabeth Holtzman has been a US Congresswoman, the District Attorney of Brooklyn, and was Member of House panel that impeached Richard Nixon. Dec. 12, on AM KCTC 1320, Ms. Holtzman said,

“If you’d asked me in December of 1972, after he’d just been re-elected in a landslide, whether to impeach Nixon, I would have said, "For what?"

The Watergate hearings began in mid-1973 and the rest is history.

Former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman sat on the House Judiciary Committee during 1974 to draft articles of impeachment against President Nixon, a sobering decision that she says gave her a sinking feeling in her stomach, knowing that Nixon had systematically abused the powers of the presidency. Faced with certain removal from office, Nixon resigned.

Now thirty years later, with the experience of Watergate behind her, Holtzman has written a clear, balanced, and thoughtful book:

The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citizens. We spoke to Elizabeth Holtzman about why impeachment is necessary to cement Bush’s high crimes in American history; why the mainstream media and political pundits have written impeachment off; and what Americans can do to hold George W. Bush accountable.

http://www.impeachbushbook.com/
By Elizabeth Holtzman with Cynthia L. Cooper

************************************

A BUZZFLASH INTERVIEW
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/045

Elizabeth Holtzman Calls for Americans to Put Impeachment Where It Belongs -- Back On the Table

BuzzFlash: Why do you think President Bush should be impeached?

Elizabeth Holtzman: President Bush should be impeached because he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, as set forth in our Constitution, and because his abuses of power are so serious, and so subvert our democracy and so threaten it, that action has to be taken to preserve our democracy and hand it down to future generations intact.

BuzzFlash: No one is better placed or qualified to call for the impeachment of George W. Bush than you. You were a former congresswoman. You were a former Brooklyn district attorney. Most importantly, you were a member of the House Judiciary Committee during the impeachment proceedings of Richard Nixon.

You lay out the following reasons for impeachment:

1) the offense of wiretapping surveillance in defiance of the law;

2) the offence of lying to induce America to support a war;

3) the offense of reckless indifference to the lives and welfare of American troops;

4) the offense of torture in violation of U.S. and international laws and treaties;

and 5) covering up the war deceptions with the leak of misleading classified information.

Is the most egregious offense to warrant impeachment Bush’s illegal wire-tapping, breaking the law repeatedly, not just once?. It’s perhaps the most clear cut argument for impeachment.

Elizabeth Holtzman: No, I think what you have is a President who has repeatedly and in various ways put himself above the rule of law. And then secondly, as with the handling of the war in Iraq, he failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed. In other words, he’s turned away from carrying out his basic responsibilities as President. So in some cases, he puts himself above the law, and in some cases, he runs away from the law.

<snip>

BuzzFlash: A lot of political analysts, and even incoming Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, have said that impeachment is not where the Democrats are going to put their energy or make their priority. Although legally there is a case to impeach the President, a lot of political observers don’t think it’s the right thing to do -- and I’m emphasizing this word -- politically. Where is your opinion in terms of the legal argument for impeachment versus the political strategy to do so?

Elizabeth Holtzman: We can’t start and end the conversation with what political pundits have to say. First of all, our generation -- the American people living right now -- have a responsibility for preserving and maintaining our Constitution. Are we going to allow it to be shredded by a president? Then, if this president can get away with starting a war based on lies, with breaking the law willfully, what’s the next president going to do? What’s the precedent that’s started here?

Secondly, it really doesn’t matter what the pundits say, and it doesn’t really matter what members of Congress have to say about impeachment. If the American people want impeachment, it’s going to happen. The real problem is that the mainstream media won’t take the issue seriously. They don’t want to spend the time to understand it. And they’ve decided it’s not going to happen, so they’re not going to write about it. The consequence is that many Americans don’t understand that the framers of this Constitution 200 years ago understood that there would be a Richard Nixon, and they understood that there would be a George Bush. And they said: American people, you have a remedy. We’re giving you a remedy. It’s 200 years old. It’s called impeachment. That’s designed to remove a President who threatens our Constitution and subverts our democracy.

Watergate didn’t start because the Congress wanted impeachment. Left to its own devices, Congress never would have done anything on impeachment. Left to its own devices, the press never would have investigated, except for Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. The rest of the press was completely unconcerned on the subject. They didn’t care. They weren’t aggressive. But the American people understand that this is their Constitution, this is their democracy, this is their country, and they have the power to do something about it.



http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/
http://www.impeachpac.org/
http://www.democrats.com/
http://www.rense.com/general73/constt.htm
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. REc. and thanks
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-13-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. very good
:hi:
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Euphemedia won't let Holtzman on the air
But they've got plenty of time to "interview" each other when they've got a new book to flog.

And they wonder why they're less and less relevant.

--
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Really? When I heard her say that on progressive radio it all snapped into place
"“If you’d asked me in December of 1972, after he’d just been re-elected in a landslide, whether to impeach Nixon, I would have said, "For what?"

(The Watergate hearings began in mid-1973 and the rest is history).

:think:

Thought that might help the soothsayers predicting unpredictable outcomes and hardline vote counters insisting on "absolute inevitabilities." If this December is similar to that one, it might look NOW like a "no brainer" (don't you love that?) that Bushco can't POSSIBLY be impeached so somehow some folks just collapse and run in circles around that concept or that magic WORD.

It is a PROCESS. No one knows what more will be revealed in hearings and investigations. Many know what has already been studied, investigated, documented and even admitted. NO ONE can predict the future.

And NO ONE knows that some (more) Republicans won't snap out of their zombie march to oblivion (speaking of irrelevance).




As for "the history can be rewrtiten" if a President is not impeached when necessary-- look how well that's worked out for Ronald Reagan :evilfrown:
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. I remember Nixon's fall and the calls on Clinton to resign
The news media has a big influence, but not enough to stop history.

Clinton hadn't done anything to warrant impeachment and the average American knew that. Nixon fell because of the investigations into Watergate and the abuses involved in the coverup. BushCo is much worse than Nixon's administration was.

Once the hearings start on Bush, Cheney & Co, impeachment talk will start. Barring something completely out of left field, impeachment is almost inevitable, because once Conyers starts to do routine oversight hearings, the magnitude of the crimes will finally get out where all Americans see them.

Fox "News" won't be able to gloss over something or spin it when there is a 300 page Congressional report about this or that crime.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Good point. maybe the MEDIA will get some healing through this too
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's The Media Stupid
:bounce:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Back then the Rule of Law was valued more than the Lure of Strategery
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Is this OP too informative to interest all the anti-impeachment ranters?
Edited on Thu Dec-14-06 12:32 PM by omega minimo
from the rense link at bottom of OP


On Constitution Day -
Talk Of Impeachment
And Rumors Of War
By Dave Lindorff
9-18-6


The talk on the the weekend of Sept. 16-17 at Camp Democracy in the shadow of the Washington Monument on the National Mall was of impeaching the president--and of looming war with Iran.

I spoke on the morning of Sept. 17, along with John Nichols of the Nation, David Green of Hofstra, former federal prosecutor and author Elizabeth de la Vega, and long time anti-war activist Marcus Raskin. Later, in the afternoon, a second group of people spoke on the same topic, including veteran former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, Jennifer van Bergen (who first exposed Bush's secret "signing statements"), Michael Avery, president of the National Lawyers Guild, and former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman (D-NY).

It was Holtzman who stole the show, with the former member of the House impeachment panel that drew up impeachment articles against Richard Nixon noting that one of those three articles was for spying on American citizens. Holtzman, who has a new book out on impeachment herself (The Impeachment of George W. Bush,), said that when she and the other's on that committee--Democrats and Republicans alike--unanimously voted out those articles, which led to Nixon's resignation from office, "I thought we had protected the Constitution for generations to come."

And yet, scarcely one generation later, the threat of presidential abuse of power is back, including the same crime of illegal spying--this time more seriously than before.

Holtzmen observed that when Nixon was ordered by the Supreme Court to produce the tape recordings that the government had learned had been made in the Oval Office, after some hesitation, he agreed, and his fate was sealed. This time, she suggested ominously, Bush and his gang might decide to ignore orders from the Supreme Court.


That, everyone agrees, would be the moment when tyranny--the very thing that the Founding Fathers feared most, and that was their motive in including an impeachment clause in the Constitution--would be upon us.

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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. No, just reading and absorbing
Although I am not an anti-impeachment ranter. I say get the fucker out of office post-haste...and if we fail, try it again. And when he leaves office, try him again...criminally, then send him and his team of cronies to the Hague and let them try him.

Heck, I don't even mind if we drag them all in a steel cage through all of the major cities of the world so peple can throw tomatoes at them for the rest of their sorry-ass lives.

I just feel that way about high body-count dictators and their obsequious toadies.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The arguments have been going in circles about nothing. Hoping info might help the confused.
:thumbsup:
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Look at how the press and the Republican Party
rewrote history so that Rondald Reagan's disastrous persidency (and his low approval ratings!) wer4e transformed into a legacy surpassing that of Mother Theresa!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Zackly
:yourock:


Look at how Clinton's bogus impeachment will be shown in future as if it was really about something legitimate.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Oops! I typoed my way through that one and missed the window of opportunity for
editing out my errors!
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'll give this a big kick. - n/t
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. The most compelling argument so far.
The historic context may be the best argument. We can't let these guys rewrite their own history, which is something they clearly will do.

I've always been for impeachment, but I've been reticent to support an action which, if it goes through the whole process, would clearly put us into the 2008 campaign season. I've needed a rationale for my position because "Congress has a oblibation to impeach" just wasn't enough for a process that may very well turn around and bite Democrats in the ass. This, in spite of the unarguable fact that history clearly shows no such obligation. After all, what good does is starting an impeachment if it only grants the Republicans the permanent power they crave.

But this argument cuts to the core of the matter. For the future of our Republic, we need to make sure that this period in history is demonstrated to be the worst politics ever.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. We need to beginthe investigtions immediately
And have enough of Bush's dirty laundry flapping inthe breeze so that
in March 2007 when the economic Sh&^ is gonna hit the fan,they can't trot
out the idea that it is Nancy Pelosi's fault (Fox already has headlines like:
The Nancy Pelosi Shrinking Dollar
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thedeanpeople Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kick and Recommend! (nt)
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bush is why impeachment was invented
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-14-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. summed up in 6 words
:applause:
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