"...any animal that threatens my children, IN ANY WAY, is a dead animal."

[xultar]

What do you think of this DU?
What is your stance on putting animals down?

[jgraz]

1. Are they Republican animals?

:P

[Texasgal]

2. I find it sad...

I could not believe what I was reading earlier...

[xultar]

5. I'm checking cuz I couldn't believe I was actually on DU.

Man it is fuckin looney bin straight out of the fucking twiligh tzone next door to the outter limits crazy as hell up in this joint.

[wtmusic]

3. source?

thanks.

[xultar]

6. I'd rather not.

[wtmusic]

14. Well judging by the tone

it sounds like a typical armed Republican.

Kinda sums up the reason we invaded Iraq -- our safety is worth their lives.

[FedUpWithIt All]

90. Here is a link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2905929

[leftyladyfrommo]

113. That is just a completely stupid thing to say - or to act on.

That puppy was six weeks old. It wasn't being vicious. It was just being a puppy. Only an idiot would leave a month old baby laying with a puppy.

But beside that - any animal can be dangerous if put in the right circumstance.

You have to be careful and intelligent when you are working with animals. Almost all of the animal damage cases that you see are 100% people caused. It is simply people being dumb about animals.

If you choose to have a pit bull that is your right. But it is then your full responsibility to make sure that animal is never put in a situation where it could hurt a person, child or another animal.

[FedUpWithIt All]

116. I'm not sure what you mean...

What is a stupid thing to say? I posted a link. Are you talking about the other thread or another of my posts?

My opinion of the article is that the puppy is young enough that the incident does not necessarily mean the puppy will have long term aggressive tendencies. If the dog were older and did what this puppy did i would fully support the animal being put down.

The biggest issue for me is the "telephone syndrome" happening here. One person relayed an experience from their childhood about a dog being shot for growling, with no further explanation as to whether or not there was a clear suggestion of harm from the animal and it turned into DUers advocate shooting dogs that growl when a child pulls on their tail. WTF

That was not what happened in the previous post. Many people had differing opinions as to the puppy's future based on the fact that it chewed off a child's toes. Quite different than calling for the shooting of animals for growling IMHO.

Seems to me that people feel very strongly about their animals AND their children. When feelings run this strong there is apt to be a response proportionally emotional.

Oh well..

[zreosumgame]

125. in that case the PARENTS were the threat

not the puppy dipshit

[FedUpWithIt All]

128. Again, i am confused...

Are you refering to me as a dipshit? For posting the link?

[zreosumgame]

133. my fault, sorry, meant for the OP trying to blame a puppy

for being, well a puppy with stupid owners who were also stupid parents. Once again, sorry you are not a dipshit :dunce:

[FedUpWithIt All]

136. LOL

Thanks for clarifying.

:hi:

[Redstone]

4. To protect my kids? In a heartbeat. No thinking required.

Redstone

[xultar]

8. If your kid was pulling on a dogs tail and the dog growled you'd kill the dog?

Growling is threatening.

You'd kill a dog for growling?

[Redstone]

15. Don't be fucking ridiculous. You know that's not what I meant.

Redstone

[xultar]

18. I'm just checking...that is what my post is about. If a dog threatens...

not actually does anything.

[Redstone]

31. Hey, the dog can NIP my kid if the kid pulls on his tail. I do know the difference

between an animal defending itself, and being truly threatening.

Redstone

[xultar]

36. I can tell a rabid dog from a non rabid dog. I'm afraid though that

some people can't.

I'd be afraid that the posters I had my discussion with that they'd be way to quick to grab a gun.

Dogs nip some bite but in most cases the dogs don't need to be put down.

I'd want to know about the owner and the parent and the control they had over the animal and kid before I made a decision.

I don't like people just grabbin guns and shooting.

[Redstone]

38. Like you say, you gotta know. But, if you've ever seen "that look" on a dog's face,

you KNOW.

Redstone

[xultar]

41. Oh...I know. Trust me.

[Redstone]

43. Never forget it once you've seen it, do you?

Redstone

[xultar]

45. Nope. But I consider it to be specific to the dog. Others here @ DU

want to make a whole breed extinct.

I've seen the look in different dogs of all sizes and breeds. It is unforgettable. But I wouldn't then just pick up my gun and shoot them.

IF they were in a situation where shit was goin down...I wouldn't shoot unless a life was truly in danger. There are ways to break a dog away without shooting. Sometimes shooting makes it worse.

After the fact I'd advocate they take the dog to a facility to be put down or maybe the cops could do it. I don't like citizens just pulling out guns and shooting. That frightens me.

[Redstone]

48. Well, no, I'm not in favor of "citizens pulling out guns and shooting" either, as you

may know. So I'm definitely with you on this one.

Redstone

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

130. Don't like citizens killing dogs?

Folks working at animal shelters or police stations, they're not citizens?

If an animal "needs killing", there's no need for special training. I've had to put a few terminally ill pets "to sleep", but prefer to do it myself instead of paying a vet for an injection.

[silverojo]

56. "Putting down" a dog and shooting it are two different things

The OP specifically mentioned putting animals down, NOT shooting them.

If a dog mauls a child, it's no longer a pet, but an animal that has attacked, and will attack again. Dogs and cats are "domesticated", but only to some degree; all are animals, and all will revert back to natural instincts. Once an animal attacks a human being, it will think it's OK to keep attacking other humans.

That's why it's so important for owners of aggressive dogs to take measures to PREVENT situations like this from happening.

As a Democrat, I believe the human life of a woman is more important than that of a fetus. Similarly, I believe the human life of a woman, man, or child is more important than that of an animal. I love animals, I hate cruelty to animals, but if my dog turns a toddler into hamburger, it's time for me to have it put down before it harms anyone else.

[Arkansas Granny]

47. There is a great deal of difference between an animal that

exhibits unprovoked aggression and one who is practicing self defense. Personally, I would not own an animal who showed unprovoked aggression toward a human of any age. I would either have it put down or find it a home where it's contact with people would be limited and very closely supervised. However, in the case of a dog biting or growling because it was being threatened or mistreated, I would have to take that into consideration before making a decision on what to do about the animal. IMO, keeping a dog that shows unprovoked aggressive behavior towards humans is like handling a ticking time bomb. Eventually, the situation will get out of hand and someone will get hurt. It's not worth the risk.

[xultar]

53. Agree 100%

[lumberjack_jeff]

104. There's a difference between warning and threatening.

Every dog will warn, and perhaps even snap, when hurt.

Not every dog will attack or menace a kid. Those dogs wouldn't get a second chance from me.

[aquart]

7. Define "threat."

If your ill-bred monstrous child is torturing an animal until it defends itself, do you favor putting down the child?

[xultar]

11. Nope neither. IF a dog growled @ your kid would you kill it?

That is what some posters here @ DU advocate.

I just wanna see how pervasive it is.

[silverojo]

62. If a dog growled at my kid....

First, I'd use my Pet Trainer, to see if the sound would make the dog go away. Most of the time, that's all that's needed--which is why I carry it.

If that didn't work, and the dog showed intent to move closer to my kid, then I'd use my pepper spray on its face. I carry that to handle threatening people (and yes, I've had a couple of occasions to draw it against someone, but--thank God--the potential attackers backed down and went away).

If even THAT doesn't work, you're dealing with a truly dangerous animal. At that point, I'd be grabbing something to beat the hell out of the dog, while sorely regretting the fact that I don't have a gun.

[mondo joe]

69. I don't think a simple growl is a threat.

It's a warning.

[FedUpWithIt All]

92. I read that thread

You seemed to be suggesting that people are vicious for being of the opinion that a puppy who chewed off an infants toes should be put down.

I did not see any post about advocating killing a dog for growling (one poster said their father had done this when they were a child. I can attest that some growling IS threatening and possibly a precursor to a dangerous situation though i am not sure if this was the case or not in that instance as i was not there and no more info was given).

One poster said they would have any animal that "threatened" their children killed(did not clarify what threatening behavior is). You called them vicious and said that you would have them reported for owning a pet.

You accused someone of being vicious for suggesting that a nursing puppy does not chew through bone. You also said that they know nothing about animals and should not be involved in pet care decisions.

I think your post is misleading. As far as i could see NOBODY advocated killing a dog for growling.

I personally do not think the dog should be killed due to it's age. If the dog were older i would be in favor of the dog being put down.

As for killing a dog for growling at my children...it would depend on the situation. I also have seen the difference between an irritated dog warning someone to back off a bit and a dog that intended harm. I would not allow my children to be harmed.

[aquart]

127. Nope, but I've done animal rescue work

Because I'm related to driven saints. I'm way more likely to threaten the idiot human than the animal.

I've also learned that people in authority need to be alerted if a child is hurting animals...because the parents may need to be arrested for child abuse.

Dogs don't growl for no reason. The reason needs to be respected. Especially if they are growling because they are terrified or in pain.

Anyone who advocates shooting the dog probably sees the dog as powerful and threatening. If the dog is growling, the dog is the one most frightened, the one who feels the weakest, the one who is the most desperate and fearful for its life.

Come to think of it, there's probably a correlation between people who want to shoot the dog and people who think Israel is this big cruel belligerent monster. It's the same kind of thinking.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I'd find it curious...

that you'd put your child in a position to be threatened by animals.

But no, seriously. If you take your child to a park with geese, there's a decent chance your kid's going to get bit.

If you've got a jealous dog and a baby there's a chance the dog might growl or snap at the baby. Then it's your responsibility to either train the dog and keep it away from babies.

Now this case where the parents put a starving puppy in with a baby and the puppy started eating the baby, then we've got to put the parents in prison for animal abuse and child endangerment.

[Texasgal]

10. Agreed,

Good post.

[xultar]

13. There are people here who advocate killing a dog if it growls @ a kid.

I'm sorry. No I'm not. That's fucking nuts.

I just wanna see what most people here @ DU think about why you should put down an animal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Of course it's unjustified.

It's like the people who say they want child molestors to be tortured before they're executed, they don't really mean it, it just makes them feel macho to say it.

As for putting animals to sleep, there's that other thread about the puppy who started eating the baby. An argument for euthanasia could be made going either way in that particular case.

[xultar]

29. I don't think they should put the dog down. Clearly the kid would have

screamed or cried in some form or fashion.

Dogs gnaw on toes. They learn not to gnaw when they are taught.

The parents were clearly ignoring the child. That is the problem there.

Putting the dog down because the parents ignored their kid is awful.

That dog would make a great pet to some family who can train and love it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. It certainly is awful.

"Clearly the kid would have screamed or cried in some form or fashion."

Yeah, but I'm guessing since they were starving the puppy they were likely ignoring the kid.

"Dogs gnaw on toes. They learn not to gnaw when they are taught."

yeah, I figure the puppy is young enough to be taught not to bite. There's a school of thought that once a dog bites, it's in danger of biting again. Another thought is that if the dog bites again, and it's had this history, than anybody willing to take the dog in is not only liable financially, but could face criminal negligence charges as well. Ideally, there'd be some sort of shelter out there willing to take such a risk.

"Putting the dog down because the parents ignored their kid is awful."

Yeah. Unfortunately, there are no shortages of dogs being put down because their owners were utterly irresponsible.

[FedUpWithIt All]

93. I keep seeing that the puppy was being starved.

I did not see that in the article of the OP in the other thread. Do you have another link?

:shrug:

[Dorian Gray]

66. If an animal...

unprovoked, attacks an infant or toddler... (like harms the child), then yes... I might consider putting it down. If it growls, no way. Who the heck is advocating that? That's insane!

[Ilsa]

12. I know a woman who has about six weeks to find a home for her cat.

She is bringing home a baby then, one born very prematurely that is in hospital now for 6-8 weeks. The cat is a lovely male persian and generally well behaved, but the neonatologist insists the cat either be placed out of the home or with another family. I don't have all of the details about the cat's declawing, etc, but I assume it cannot defend itself.

[xultar]

16. Where do they live. Have them contact a no kill. If they are in ATL GA

I have some numbers you can give them.

[MacGregor]

81. Tell them to search out cat (or, specifically, Persian) rescues online.

I've particpated in Underground Railroad-style transports of pets (mostly dogs, but some cats), almost exclusively from kill shelters in the South to no-kill refuges and rescues in the Northeast. If she has a hard time placing her cat locally, she may be able to get assistance that way.

[NotGivingUp]

105. INSISTS??? What do you mean 'insists'?

[Blue Fire]

17. Is this post a metaphor?

If your neighbors dog is an immediate danger to your kids, kill it.
If a wild animal is in the neighborhood, call the DNR. If they do nothing, kill it.
If you're talking about the human animal, please be a bit more specific!
I have no problem putting animals down. Especially if they taste good!

[xultar]

21. Ok what if your neighbor's dog bites your kid. Do you go over and kill it?

Without even knowing the full details?

[Blue Fire]

25. No.

But if my neighbors dog is loose and threatening my kids without provocation, it's dead! I have scars on my arm from an unprovoked pit bull attack. This dog would have killed a kid.

[karlrschneider]

35. What details? I mean what more would you need?

As much as I love dogs, if I see ANY dog bite (more than a playful nip - draw blood, etc) it's an ex-dog. Even my own.

[Solon]

82. Even if the dog was provoked?

Look at post 67.

[nankerphelge]

19. any child that threatens my animals is a dead child.

[spoony]

100. And who's going to care for them

when you're in jail for the rest of your natural life?

[Blue-Jay]

20. What if it's an elephant with a shark strapped to its back?

Just trampling and biting everything in its path...

[xultar]

23. I wouldn't worry. The people who were too stoopid to get out of the way

deserve to get trampled.

As for the shark I'd worry about the shark's dating criteria. Clearly the shark has issues.

[aquart]

129. Any shark strapped to an elephant's back

Would either be dead or have given itself up for dead. Sharks need to be in water.

Of course, it isn't impossible that this would be happening in water. Still, I don't believe the shark would be in any shape to bother anyone.

[MrSlayer]

24. LOL.

That would be interesting.

[petronius]

49. It depends on whether the shark has a laser on its head...

[Mojorabbit]

61. LOL Spewed my drink...n/t

[youthere]

120. No sharks with lasers...

but we do have some ill-tempered mutated sea bass.

[SidDithers]

54. Truly, the most dangerous animal in the world...

Gotta love Jack.

Sid

[Blue-Jay]

57. Cracks me up every time!

I figured someone would get the reference sooner or later. :thumbsup:

[SidDithers]

63. Be sure to watch out for Uncle Caveman, too...

:toast:

Sid

[PVnRT]

108. Does the shark have a laser?

[elehhhhna]

110. lmao

[MrSlayer]

22. My cat Eddie threatened everyone all the time.

He ruled the house with an iron fist and he knew how to intimidate people. He'd bite you pretty bad if you fucked with him (sometimes even if you didn't) but I would never have harmed him for being a nutcase. I loved him to death. A strange animal threatening my kids would be a different story. If I thought it was going to attack I'd put it down without a second thought. I always put myself in front of my family if a strange animal comes up anyway so it would have to go after me first.

[xultar]

26. So it's o.k. for your cat to threaten your kids but if someone elses cat

does it you'd kill it.

[MrSlayer]

55. Well, let's put this in perspective.

I wouldn't kill somebody's housecat for threatening to scratch or bite my kids. And if the animal nips you or whatever that could also be acceptable depending on circumstances. Usually people warn you if they have animals that don't like to be touched or whatever. I'm talking about alley cats or stray dogs or octopi or whatever. Most street animals will avoid people and if one is running at you in attack mode I think you'd have to take steps to defend yourself, killing it might be the best thing to do. That's threatening to me, not growling or scratching because you pull the animal's tail. And that goes for people's housepets too, if somebody's dog is on top of your kid mauling away, you'll probably want to kill the motherfucker as soon as you can.

[karlrschneider]

28. A little different perspective since we don't have kids

We live in a lakeside community that is a favorite 'dumping ground' for unwanted pets. We have taken in 7 dogs and 3 cats the last 10 years. We get them veterinary care, shots and take good care of them all (some have died, we are current with 3 doggies & 1 cat)

Probably 80% of the folks who live out here have adopted at LEAST one and generally multiple ones, as we have...but there are always a fair number of homeless strays percolating around the area - people can only do so much and so many of the animals are simply shot, which as sad as that is, is preferable to having them starve or being hit by cars (we see 3 or 4 every week dead or dying.)

There is no 'pound' or animal shelter in our county. Sometimes the dogs go semi-wild and run in packs
which poses physical and health risks to domestic pets and humans. We do what we must.

[xultar]

33. That I can understand. But not going into the house and getting a gun

and shooting a dog cuz it growled or threatened @ your kid.

That's fucked up.

[Texasgal]

34. I don't think this has much to do with the OP.

The OP was asking if you would kill an animal ( dog ) if it threatened your kids in any way.

The whole idea of putting down dogs or other domestic animals in a mercy situation is quite different.

[karlrschneider]

42. Well that's why I said "different perspective", but I did address the question

in my last short paragraph. Perhaps it wasn't clear, my bad.

[Texasgal]

46. That's cool..

I hope I did not come off snarky sounding. I apologize if I did. :)

[karlrschneider]

52. Not at all! I often sacrifice clarity in the service of brevity.

:D

[WI_DEM]

30. I think this must have to do with that thread on the pit bull who nibbled on the baby's feet

and some response in that.

[toshirajo]

32. absurd premise

the number you have dialed is stupid. Please hangup and try your call again.

[xultar]

40. I'll be watching you...

[spoony]

101. Lol.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

37. My husband had to kill one of our cats once

because it was rabid. It was a matter literally of life or death for us and the other animals. No, it is not something done lightly, but there are times when an animal has to be killed.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

44. If the kid deserves it, then no....

But if the animal is threatening the kid for no reason, then probably. I think putting down an animal is a kindness if it's sick or has attacked someone without being provoked.
And I don't believe in giving dogs chemo so I can be prolong being sad for a while. That's called SELFISHNESS. But then again, you probably still think I'm vicious and should never have a pet. I'm offended by your comments in the other thread, and I don't even know where you got anything you said. I'm not vicious. I've been a loving pet owner my entire life. However, we did have a lot of working dogs on the farm where I grew up. However, I did spoil them, much to my father's chagrin. Maybe before you make such SNAP judgments about people you DON'T EVEN KNOW, maybe you should ask them questions about their history with pets.
Duckie

[Texasgal]

50. Some people prefer animals over humans.

It shouldn't matter if the owner wants to give the dog chemo, it is a personal choice.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. But still, you're prolonging YOUR sadness instead of preventing THEIR pain.

It's selfish.
Duckie

[Texasgal]

60. What do you think chemo does?

The chemo is curing or enabling the animal to live longer. And like I said, some people
You could say the same thing about grandma, shoule we stop chemo on her because she is old and her life will be extended?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

64. MOST of the time, Chemo only prolongs a dog's life a year...

And most of that year is spent in pain, suffering thru chemo.
It's not the same for a human. I can't believe I just had to freaking say that. :eyes:
Duckie

[Texasgal]

65. Who are YOU to tell anyone of us

that my dog is not as important to me as a human?

If I chose chemo for my dog, it's because I love and care for him. Putting him down if a treatment is available and I am able to afford it seems selfish to me.

And uhhhh.. Duckie... I am an RN who has worked in oncology. I know allllll about chemo treatment.

[Raine]

88. Agree and

Thank you for saying it cause NO ONE is telling me I'm selfish for spending my own money on my animals if I please!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

134. Fine...Do it..

I just said I think it's selfish. It's my opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion. As are you. Jesus Christ, am I not allowed to have a fucking opinion anymore because it's starting to look that way?
Duckie

[JuniperLea]

141. You go Texasgal!

My animals are my babies! I had a 111 lb. Dobie/Shepherd who was a loving lap puppy. He had seizures for the last five years of his life, poor baby. I paid thousands of dollars for his medications and vet bills. And I'd do it again. He was the best dog ever and I still love him dearly even though he's been gone nearly 3 years. The first person who told me I should put him down nearly had to pick himself up off the floor because it took all I could muster NOT to put HIM down on that floor with my bare hands!

[flvegan]

83. Back that statement up.

You can't, because it isn't true for "most"*.

*Guessing it could be if the controlled study involved 15 year old dogs.

[bicentennial_baby]

87. Thank You

:hug:

[Raine]

89. Thank you

from me too. :pals:

[Raine]

59. Yeah really

it's their money, their choice. So far this is a free country on how you spend your money!

[FedUpWithIt All]

94. I saw that in the last thread....

:shrug:

No idea what that was all about. I agree with you, a nibbling, nursing puppy is one thing...a puppy that chews off the toes of an infant is something a little different.

[Pithlet]

51. Well, threaten, yeah.

But I wouldn't consider merely growling to be an immediate threat. I'd keep my kid away from that dog from then on, but I wouldn't push to have it put down or anything. An immediate physical threat? Yes, I will do anything in my power to stop it, and if that means harming the dog, so be it. As far as a bite goes, it would just depend on the severity and whether the dog has bitten in the past. Any dog regardless of breed that causes serious injury or bites multiple times needs to be put down.

[WindRavenX]

68. yeah there's a world of difference between "grr" and an agressive lunge

I had a dog come running after me last year and start gnawing on my leg. Terrifying experience, and I LOVE dogs :(

[Solon]

67. My dog attacked a neighbor's kid once...

Here is what happened, my dog lived in the fenced in back yard. Our next door neighbor's kid, he was about 11 years old, used to tease the dog, he one time threw a firecracker at my dog, poked sticks, etc. We would yell at him, his parents would punish him, etc. but it didn't do any good. One day, I hear noises in the backyard, my dog growling, and a kid crying. Anyways, I see this kid in MY backyard, and my dog is trying to bite him. The kid rolled himself up into a ball, the only smart thing he did, and my dog couldn't get a good bite in. I pulled Lucky(my dog), off the kid, Lucky wasn't that big, an unfortunate cross-breed between a Dachshund and a Lab, about knee high, for an adult, but pretty long, about 5 feet.

Anyways, so the kid was alright, mostly bumps and bruises, he jumped the fence to get in the yard to get his baseball that he accidentally hit into our yard. This was against OUR rules, we told him, if his ball ends up in the yard, to go over to our house and ask US to retrieve it. Lucky was given that name for a reason, we got him like this, he was found by my Grandmother's best friend on the side of a highway when her car was broken down. He was abandoned, and she couldn't take care of him, and so my parents, who just got a house with a fenced in backyard, and me, a kid who always wanted a dog, got him. We soon found out a couple of things about him, apparently he was abused by whoever it was that abandoned him, he was only about 9 months to a year old when we got him, but he would growl at you if you wore a baseball cap, stuff like that. He also would bark at ANYBODY who he didn't know, our family was safe, even some cousins and stuff who would pet sit for us, he also got along with our cats, but strangers? No way!

Sorry about the side track, anyways, this is what happened after the attack, I dragged the kid out of our yard, marched him over to his parents' house. I knock on the door, and he was all defiant and shit, being an ass, basically. So his mom opens the door, and asks what happened. I explained that my dog attacked him when he jumped the fence, she looked him over, at the bruises and scrapes, no bite marks, nothing needing a visit to the hospital. She was pissed, not at me, or my dog, but at her kid. All she said was, "Now you know why you shouldn't tease animals, your grounded."

Ever since then, he stopped teasing my dog, later his mom talked to my mom, and said something to the effect that my dog taught him some discipline, FINALLY!

Lucky lived another 10 years after that, never attacked another person, besides me, once, but it was my fault, he had heartworms, and had to be "contained" so that he wouldn't have a stroke or heart attack, its a bad idea to think you could restrain a dog without any special equipment, even if he only weighed about 40 lbs. :)

He lived till he was about 16 years old, had a good life, lived to a ripe old age.

[Texasgal]

73. Good think no one decided to shoot him!

Thats what some people are advocating!

I am glad it worked out and the parents of this kid were responsible and knew how to handle the situation!

[Solon]

78. Some people just don't know animals...

My neighbor two houses up had a big chocolate Lab. One day I was walking to the house, my parents were visiting them, and the dog was chained to the tree in the front yard, they were redoing the fence for the backyard. Anyways, I walked up to the yard, and this huge dog, with a head the size of mine, bounds up and greets me. He jumped up and put both is forepaws on my shoulders and promptly knocks me flat on my back. At first I was getting ready to fight him off, then he started licking me all over the face, I laughed instead.

This neighbor has two little boys, that I babysat a few years ago, and, let me tell you, this dog had a lot of tolerance for the 3 and 5 year olds. They would yank on his ears, use him as a bed, pull his tail, ride him, and he was just stoic and stuff, plus he was protective of them. Not to mention he was overweight, so when the kids went in for a nap, I was supposed to give this lab a workout. This was best done in the back yard, he, being a lab, loved water, so a kids' pool, one of those cheap plastic things, was always filled with water, and there was a dirt patch that he rolled in also. His favorite thing to do was run at me at full speed, jump up, and chest bump me onto the ground.

It was actually good exercise for both of us, though by the end of it, we would both be covered, head to toe, in mud. I even practiced some Judo moves on him, its actually nice to have a sparring opponent who didn't throw insults at you. :) It was also nice to play with a dog and not worry about hurting him, or him hurting you, besides the occasional really bad bruise, when he knocked me into the fence, THAT hurt!

[happydreams]

77. OK, but what if yer dog had been pit bull? You would have a dead

kid on your hands.

[Solon]

80. First, I would never have a pit bull...

Some breeds ARE more vicious than others, mostly due to inbreeding, others have a myriad of other problems, medical and otherwise, due to being so called "purebreds". But just to put things in perspective, my dog had a big bark AND a big bite, if the kid didn't roll up into a ball, he would have been dead. I've seen my dog EAT aluminum once. It was actually pretty bad, I was playing softball in the backyard with my friends, and I hit the ball, and it smacked right in the center of the kitchen storm window, it fell out of its frame, and shattered on the ground, my dad picked up all the glass later, and tossed the storm window's frame in the shed.

The next day, there's my dog, laying down on the hill in our backyard, eating the damned frame. I ran out and grabbed it and threw it over to the side of the house, beyond the fence. Ever since then, we nicknamed him the Hyena. Actually, I don't know if the frame was aluminum or galvanized steel, either way, damn he had a strong bite. We actually sent him to the vet, the vet visits were always interesting, he was a "medium" sized dog, but required at least 4 people to hold him down for his shots.

[happydreams]

123. You also missed my point. I generalized your take to

pitbulls that attack.

[Solon]

131. What's your point?

I don't get it, really, what's this generalization to do with what my dog did? He was provoked, even though the kid didn't admit it, I think he may have kicked Lucky(he was limping for a few days after the attack), does it really matter IF Lucky was a pit bull, even though he wasn't.

Most animals, unless they are rabid, abused or mentally unbalanced in some way, attack with REASON. Generally animals will give warnings before attacking a human, or even another animal, cats hiss and pull their ears back, in addition to raising their hairs on their back and tail, dogs growl, bark aggressively, and or nip at you, other animals have other warning signs. The best thing to do, in all situations, is to be calm, and retreat slowly, and NEVER make eye contact.

The best things parents can do to protect their kids is this, teach them these warning signs, and in addition to this, tell them to leave strange dogs, cats, and wild animals ALONE. Do NOT tease them, and especially don't abuse them. This would probably eliminate 90% of animal attacks against children AND adults. The other 10% should be dealt with aggressively, when necessary.

[xultar]

99. Not necesssarilly.l Pit Bulls are like people some are good some are bad.

You can't assume just cuz it is a Pit Bull it would kill a kid. Unfortunately the people attracted to Pit Bulls are not so animal friendly.

You also forget the last part of Pit Bull is Terrier...terriers all have a very aggressive trait but no one wants to kill a Jack Russel or Yorkie and they bite too.

[happydreams]

121. You missed my point entirely. The operative word is "attack"

A pitbull that attacked the kid.

[xultar]

122. Sorry. I'll read it again. Thanks.

[xultar]

126. It's dog specific not breed specific. It's like saying all poodles are attack dogs when 1 bit a kid

[xultar]

96. That's what I'm talking about. Some people here would have shot

the dog...not even thinking about what the deal was. That is why I think DU is infultrated with freepers. Most reasonable people wouldn't just grab a gun and start shooting.

Thank you for your story and I'm so happy that lucky had such a great family. BTW...Dachshunds aren't very good with kids anyway but you did great with the abused and confused mix-breed you had. I'm so happy he lived a great long life.

My Chihuahua was abused by a little boy. He shows agression towards little boys but we've worked on it and he's actually pretty good with kids though I watch him. He's very skiddish and jumps when kids are around. But he's a good pup.

[spoony]

103. Yeah only freepers would

try to defend a kid with a dog on top of them trying to bite them. You couldn't shoot them in that case as it'd be just as likely to kill the child, but guess what? I'm beating that dog's ass off the kid. I suppose you'll have to "watch" me, too. I'm a dirty human sympathizer!

[Solon]

117. You don't know how to handle animals, do you?

You do NOT, I repeat do NOT BEAT a dog that's attacking someone else, especially your own, that's just a ticket to get hurt yourself. This is how I got my dog off the kid, I ran out of the house, yelled "STOP!" as loud and deep as I could to the dog, Lucky immediately stopped attacking the kid, and I ran over to him, grabbed his collar firmly, and dragged him into the house. Dogs, like people, when treated with violence, get violent themselves. Most "Guard dog" breeds are a classic example, most are beaten, severely, and become mean because of it.

Dogs can read people's emotions like a book, you act aggressive to a dog, expect to get bit, period. If you are afraid, dogs can smell it, and will either try to chase you away or attack you. Dogs are pack animals, and will follow the Alpha, to a certain extent, however, IF that Alpha is too aggressive, too timid, or too fearful, it is an ineffective leader of the pack, and the dog will not obey them, or worst, will attack them to take over the pack. Dogs make excellent pets when YOU are an effective Alpha, a leader they can follow.

[Solon]

119. Lucky was always good with me and my little sister...

But then again, my Mother was a big animal person, and believed that you should treat animals the way you want to be treated, and taught us that as well. We had few problems, beyond learning Lucky's limits due to his abuse, for example, he did NOT like to be cornered, at all, and hugs were out as well. But, to give him credit, he always gave us a warning that he didn't like certain things, a really low growl, almost like a cat's purr. As soon as he does something like that, we back off, not afraid, just to give him space.

Generally speaking, we simply learned his moods, if he wanted to be petted, then he will come to us, and we will pet him, if he wants to play with a ball, he'll bring it too us, etc. Though I will say he was the scourge of balls, I don't know how many he went though, he got a hold of a baseball and dissected it, literally unstrung it and took it apart. Tennis balls he would tear apart, his favorite thing was to rip off the outer fuzzy coating, leaving the rubber ball behind to play with.

For chew toys, old socks, tied up to each other, was a favorite, I don't know how many times he almost ripped my arm out of its socket when playing tug of war with me. Damn he was strong.

Being half Dachshund was a negative though, he never did run like a dog his size should run, he could get up to speed, but he "galloped" or ran like a Gazelle, I guess. It was an up and down gait, a lot like a small Dachshund, but just weird. To give an idea of what he looked like, his legs were about one quarter too short for his body length and weight. His head was also a little too big, I guess, his bark was like that of a large dog, a lab or German Shepard, but he was almost completely black except for a small white patch on his belly.

When he got older, he started suffering from "bow legs" with his front legs, they started to bow in, and he got arthritis from that. It was painful at first, then our vet suggested we give him half a tablet of Aspirin, after that, he was back running up and down the hill, like he always did, his biggest problem, later in life, were stairs though, it would take him a couple of tries, but he would get up them. This was his only medical problem later in life, kicked the heartworm thing pretty early in life.

I would say he had about half the personality of a Lab, and half Dachshund, he was stubborn as all hell, but was also extremely playful as well.

[Blue Fire]

118. A similiar story with a sad ending....

When I was a kid in Jamestown, ND, I had a paper route that included a large trailer court that had a mix of nice mobile homes and yards and stereotypical trailer trash junk. There was one nice home with a fenced yard across the road from a junk home. The folks in the nice home had a very handsome Malamute, but I was instructed to leave the paper outside the fence in the mailbox if the dog was outside. The kid who had the route before I did told me this, and on the occassions the dog was outside when he was teaching me the route he would tease the dog until it was snarling barking furious. And the rugrats from the junk home across the road would join right in. I found myself getting just as mad as the dog!

After I had the route on my own, I followed the delivery instructions. But one day I came with the paper and I didn't see the dog in the yard, so I went thru the fence, tossed the paper inside the door, and turned to leave. Between me and the gate stood the dog! I moved slowly with my back against the building and almost got out unscathed, but he bit me just above the ankle on my way to safety. Rather than get mad and file a complaint (wich would have surely meant euthanizing the dog - his name was Blitz), I decided to make this beautiful dog my buddy. I would stock up on dog treats from our house, and when I got to Blitz's home when he was out I would talk to him in gentle tones and toss treats ocer the fence. Pretty soon I could reach over the fence and feed him by hand, and after that pet him on the head. So one day I showed up when Blitz was out. He saw me coming and his tail was wagging and he looked happy to see me. So I opened the gate and went into the yard, delivered the paper inside the door, and tossed Blitz his treat. He munched it down and came over for some serious petting. The guy who lived there came outside and was amazed. "How did you do that?" he asked."Blitz can be very mean."
"You don't have a mean dog," I said. "Just mean neighbors."
So Blitz and I became good friends.
And then a time came when I delivered papers for a good week without seeing Blitz. When I saw the owner outside I asked where he was. And he told me the story: the rugrats from across the road came over one afternoon and teased Blitz so bad he crawled over the fence and put a bite into one of the kid's legs that neede stitches. The rats parents filed a complaint and Blitz was put down. Now this family had a little brown ratmutt they would let run loose, and it would hide under their trailer and try to attack if it thought you weren't looking. If you were, it would just sit there and growl. The day after I found out about Blitz, I delivered their paper, walked away from the door, and spun around in time to see the ratmutt four feet away and charging. Having this planned, I pulled back my right foot and before the ratmutt could turn I bet I punted that little mongrel thru the air twenty feet! It couldn't bring back my buddy, Blitz, but it sure felt good!

[nini]

70. If an animal went after the little guy in my sig line and he was in danger.

I'd do anything to protect him - including breaking the dogs neck.

That being said.. if a dog snapped at him because Mikey pulled his tail - well, that's a lesson for Mikey to learn and the dog shouldn't be hurt because the dog is protecting himself.

If the dog reacted in a way where real physical harm could occur - I would do everything to get the dog off of him. If the dog continues to attack - I would say my grandson's well being comes before the dog's. If that makes me an animal hater in some people's eyes then too fucking bad - nana will protect her grandchild first.

[elehhhhna]

111. He's so cute I'D kill an animal to protect him

good genes

[nini]

115. heheh thanks

He's a little sweetie - Grandkids are way more fun that kids!

[mondo joe]

71. My stance is that anyone or anything that I think is a threat to my kids, that

I could stop, I would in any way necessary.

[sweetheart]

72. bears, rattlers, black widows, coral snakes, cotton mouths

I agree with you, just i don't consider dogs to be a threatening
animal unless they are trained to attack, or are kept that way,
and even then, the 'avoid', dangerous hazard, must be recognized.

Your child is much more likely to die from car accident, from a gun, or in
the swimming pool, and i don't see people blowing up cars and smashing
pools to get even.

But there are dangerous animals, racoons with rabies, big badgers, and poisonous
snakes that are natural predators of animals like humans, and of course such
animals are a no brainer to kill.

It seems that this is a moderate, survival position, and all those who believed
otherwise left their DNA in a predator's mouth 1000 years ago, given human survival
against such predatory species.

What about someone who's child is attacked by AIDS,
or someone who's bairn is attacked by malaria,
if only there were a stasfying way to rambo bacteria.

But it appears this comes from a dog incident.
Dogs only attack unless trained, or bred, and both
cases are human criminal, as much as someone who bred rattle snakes
next door.

[aikoaiko]

74. Lots of "depends", but yes, physical, immmediate threats can be met with force.

I don't know what situation you are referencing since you didn't provide a link, but I could envision several where I would choose to kill a threatening dog in order to save my child.

It doesn't have to be a big dog, or a stereotypical fighting dog. I watched my friends golden retriever male him when we were 14 when he went to pull a sock out of his mouth. 30-something stitches. The other day, I saw a picture of kid who had his scalp chewed off by a Pomeranian.

[happydreams]

75. I dont' like Repugs either, but you can't kill them...

((( without just cause. At least not legally)))

[Hekate]

76. Yeah, that would be just wrong.

BTW, this is a very disturbing thread. Why was it started in the first place?
:shrug:

Hekate

[happydreams]

79. I like to keep things political at DU whenever possible.

:bounce:

[flvegan]

84. Replace "animal" with "person" and you'll likely get the same responses.

For what it's worth...

"IN ANY WAY" is a little vague, but they'll have fun with it.

[Kelly Rupert]

85. If the continued existence of an animal in my house

were to threaten my children's well-being, the animal would no longer reside in my house. Death would be the least-preferred option, but if I couldn't find a taker I'd have to.

[JVS]

86. Ok

[Mythsaje]

91. Here, like everywhere, you find a lot of people

who don't understand enough about animals in general, and dogs in particular, to be able to make a judgement call on the potential danger posed by a dog. Dogs generally bite (I mean bite here, not maul) for a few different reasons. In play, to establish dominance, and out of fear. It is the third category that actually presents the most possible danger.

Dogs give visible clues when they're going to bite. They growl and practice avoidance with their eyes. They are trying to tell the aggressor, be it another dog, an adult, or even a small child that they don't want to be messed with. If the dog is also skittish, and tries to escape contact, while still displaying this behavior, this dog WILL BITE. And it may not stop biting, depending on the level of stress it's reached at that point.

What's really reprehensible is when people acquire dogs of the so-called "bully" breeds and then deliberately avoid socializing the animal and treat it harshly. Rather than bonding with its human, it learns to distrust ALL humans, though it fears its master.

I really think we should be teaching canine behavior in our schools, simply because we have to share a society with them and too many people are remarkably ignorant about them. They are not humans, but they are intelligent, and they have their own language which a human can damn well learn how to interpret.

These insights have been gained through several years of working with abused and neglected Asian breed dogs such as the Shiba, Jindo, and Chow, as well as a particularly large pit-bull we fostered for several months.

My wife and I are well known in the Shiba Inu rescue community in particular for our work with troubled dogs, and our reputation is such that we are considered among the best at rehabilitating them.

These dogs, being from primitive breeds, have instincts closer to their cousin the wolf than many other dogs. As long as you learn to work with the instincts, as well as the intellect, it's easy to end up with a damn good animal.

Ignorant people shouldn't own dogs. Period. And any human stupid enough to allow their child and a dog to interact without supervision, until that child itself understands enough about the animal's psychology, with traits specific to both breed AND the individual animal.

I could do lectures on this subject...for all the good it would do.

Dogs are easier to train than humans are.

[xultar]

97. Brilliant post! Thanks so much.

[pinstikfartherin]

95. ...I have quite a few dogs that I am around frequently...

My dog Heidi is a cute little weiner that my mom and I share "visitation" over because well, we both love the dog but we don't live together. She is great with people, but a little scared around loud noises and such which is to be expected. She's not great with other dogs until she's been around them for a while. She gets jealous real easily when I have her at home with me and she is around my other two dogs. She'll growl when they jump on the bed with us, but after a few times of getting in trouble, she calms down for the rest of the visit. She also hates loud people or people she doesn't see often to get in her face. She'll snap, but not hard. It's just a warning, and I warn them too. If the people don't learn after that, it's their own fault if they get bit.

I also have a Jack Russell. He was wild when he was a pup, but he's a great dog now that he's calmed down a bit. He loves to play, but can be a totaly loving snuggle bug too. We have a lot of kids in our neighborhood, and they have always pestered the hell out of him by barking at him, throwing things, etc. Now he's not as friendly to kids as he once was, and all of the kids will stay far away when he's outside because if they come too close, they better run... because he is too! Right for them until his runner stops him. He's great with adults, but will growl and snap at kids if they get too close. When we have a kid around that's he's never met before, we have to watch him and tell the kid to let him come up to him/her first. However, if the kid comes up to him, he will growl. If he snaps, we temporarily muzzle him or hold him so he can't bite the kid, so the kid can pet him and let him know it's ok. Then he's usually fine.

He's only bit me twice. He loves to dig and gets dirt in his ears. When he first had a problem with them, we took him to the vet and had to clean his ears for a few days and put some medicine in them. Well, he had been scratching them and they were raw and sore after just one night. We went to clean his ears, and he snapped at me when I put the Q-tip to his ear. I don't blame him, I know it hurt. So from then on and we got a muzzle for such occasions. Now we catch the ear problems early and clean them before they hurt so we don't have to muzzle him. The second time, I scared him when he was sleeping. He was facing me sleeping deep. I forgot he was lying next to me and rolled over, flinging an arm on him by accident. He jumped and snapped at my nose. It bled in one spot, but it didn't even hurt. He knew he did something wrong and gave me some kisses.

I would never put an animal down for threatening someone by a growl or a light snap. It's a warning. People should be responsible and make sure people that will be around the dog know what not to do. If the dog viciously attacks someone though, the animal should be put down.

If anybody killed my dog just from growling at a kid, they better be prepared for a smackdown. I know how my dog is, I take action to make sure that he can't hurt any of our neighborhood kids, the kids know better than to come near him. If a kid decides that he/she wants to test the waters, they'll soon find out that they should damn well have listened. Besides, unless the kid hurt my dog, they'd probably get away with only a few snaps- Doodles is more talk than walk.

[xultar]

98. Great post. Thanks. My dog snaps in his sleep too. So we worked things out.

He sleeps down by my feet. Onyx mostly snaps when he's dreaming...making movements like hes running and playing...making little whimpering sounds like he's barking and doesn'twant anyone to know. It's so kute. But when I go to scoot him over so I can get in the bed he gets startled and wants to nip. I could see that someone would consider that a threatening move but if someone were to try and move me in certain parts of my sleep I'd bust a move too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

102. I've had pets. I've had kids. Kids are better.

Blam.

[Skidmore]

106. Depends on the level of threat, xultar.

I'll tell you a story about myself. When I was a small child, we had a little cocker spaniel. My dad was a seriously damaged individual who sometimes did not operate in the same level of reality the rest of the world did. He was a WWII vet and had sustained a head wound when in Europe. At any rate, he would experience periods of paranoia and be delusional. During one of periods, he decided that we needed to be safer so he trained our little dog using the techniques to train the perimeter guard dogs in the military. I was out in the yard playing one day and when I came around the corner of the house, Dusty and I came face to face. Dusty bared his fangs and attacked me--knocking me onto the ground and going for my throat. I was about five at the time. Fortunately, my mother wasn't far behind and grabbed one of the garden tools and rescued me. My father went back to the hospital, and Dusty was put down. I will live in a world with dogs but won't have one in my home. I don't trust dogs. My daughter and her husband have dogs. When I go to visit them, I stay away from them and I'm nervous about my grandchildren being around them. I know that these are well trained animals, but I also know that a dog can be very powerful when they are attacking--even a small dog.

I think the situation would dictate the reaction. A dog that was truly harmful, I would have no problem putting down. I know that people are very attached to their animals, and I have no problem with that. I just don't cozy up to dogs.

[opihimoimoi]

107. Well now, it seems the BushCo is threatening a lot more than dogs

ever will.

What about Presinents that threaten our kids with stupid wars an shit...?

[xchrom]

109. ...

ONE MAN'S SPECIAL TRIBUTE TO A DOG

The one absolutely unselfish friend that
a man can have in this selfish world,
the one that never deserts him,
the one that never proves ungrateful
or treacherous, is his dog.

A man's dog stands by him in prosperity
and in poverty,
in health and in sickness.
He will sleep on the cold ground where
the wintery winds blow,
and the snow drives fiercely,
if only he may be near his master's
side. He will kiss the hand that has no
food to offer, he will lick the sores
and wounds that come in encounter with
the roughness of the world. He guards
the sleep of his Pauper master as if he
were a prince.

When all other friends desert,
he remains.
When riches take wings and reputation
falls to pieces, he is as constant in
his love as the sun in it's journey
through the heavens.
If misfortune drives the master forth
an outcast in the world, friendless
and homeless, the faithful dog asks
no higher privilege than that of
accompanying him to guard against
danger, to fight against his enemies.

And when the last scene of all comes,
and death takes the master in it's
embrace, and his body is laid away in
the cold ground, no matter if all other
friends pursue their way, there by the
graveside will the noble dog be found,
his head between his paws, his eyes sad,
but open in alert watchfulness,
faithful and true, even in death.


-From a speech given by
Former Senator George Graham Vest
of Missouri. Delivered in 1870 when he
was acting as a lawyer in a suit against
a man who had killed the dog of his
client. -- He won the case.


************************

[elehhhhna]

112. If a dingo ate my baby it would be a sorry dingo, indeed.

I know a man who raised a tiger cub (this IS Texas, after all) and years later saw his tiger on the news. It had been sold several times (not by him --he was a kid when the family "owned" it) and had severely mauled a 4 y/o child. To death. His heart was broken and he blamed the owners but he felt the tigeress should be destroyed.

Moral: Dont' keep predatory half-wild animals in your yard. Not tigers, not wolves, not chained attack dogs, etc. Oh, and if you do, don't let the toddle grandkids wander around back there.

[dysfunctional press]

114. i have absolutely no problem with the sentiment expressed.

hell, i'd kill any animal that threatened any kid, not just my own.

why would anybody ever even consider that to be a hard decision to make?

[youthere]

124. If I felt my child's well-being or life were in immediate jeopardy..

you bet I would kill the animal..by any means necessary. I beat a raccoon to death with a shovel one time because it had my son cornered on the patio..and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
I do NOT consider a defensive nip as a response to "ear pulling" or teasing immediate jeopardy. My son learned not to try to bend our little wiener dog in half via a sharp nip on the chin (because heaven knows everything WE tried didn't seem to sink in with him).

[Deja Q]

132. Animals think the same way.

:popcorn:

It's part of the parenting instinct: Protect the offspring from aggressors.

I doubt most would take the time to buy and use a tranquilizer gun and then haul the sleeping critter elsewhere...

And if it's a food animal (deer, bear, rabbit, whatever) go ahead and sock it to 'em. Free meals can be useful. Hasenpfeffer, anybody? :9

I have no opinion either way regarding this topic. Each to his or her own mores.

But if it's a pit bull, definitely kill it. Those things are useless and almost as bad as Osama Bin Laden when it comes to senseless viciousness.

[Selatius]

135. This is up to the individual.

Personally, I don't deal with animals, nor do I feel like dealing with them, and if I had kids, I'll be damned sure I'll try my hardest to ensure they never get into such a situation.

If I'm attacked, I'm going to kill the animal with the pocket knife, but beyond that, keep your animal leashed like the law says you should and you should be fine.

[gollygee]

137. We have a pretty mean cat

We were worried when we had a baby what would happen, but we were very careful introducing them and the cat just runs away from her.

In our opinion, once you take on a pet, you have a responsibility to the pet. I made sure I had back-up plans in place. Our cat is mean, but she has great mousing potential and I had a few people without kids who didn't mind having a very very clean mean cat who could take care of mice.

If an animal seemed to be as true danger to people, I'd have it put down. But in the case linked, I can't help but wonder a lot of things about the home the animal and child were in. I'd have to know specifics. Like how is an animal left alone with a child long enough to gnaw off toes without the parents hearing the child scream? One tiny nip and that kid would have been screaming her head off. This seems like a problem primarily with the parents. I'd probably at least put the animal in a home without kids at that point.

I'm not an animal rights activist, and I do think there are times where the best course of action is to have an pet put down. But I don't think those cases come up very often.

[LWolf]

138. I think that all animal "threats" are human-caused.

I don't support the death penalty. I do support animal birth control, at least for domestic animals, and strictly enforced regulations about the environment domestic animals live in and the care they are given.

I do support protecting wild animal's habitat from human encroachment. I also support relocation of known aggressive animals.

I don't support the death penalty for people. I like and respect many animals more than most people; they are, imo, more honest. I trust many animals more than most people. If I don't support the death penalty for people, I don't support it for animals, either.

[Virginia Dare]

139. No bad dogs, just bad humans in my experience...

I'm involved in dog rescue, it's amazing how they will continue to trust humans after some of the most horrible things have been done to them. It is very rare that a dog is so far gone socially that it has to be put down, most can be rehabilitated with the proper care, love and training.

Oh, and NEVER FUCKING LEAVE YOUR CHILD ALONE WITH ANY ANIMAL...NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!!!!!

[JuniperLea]

140. Killing a dog because the parent is negligent

Is like suing Ozzy Osbourne because your kid, the one you ignored to the point where you were shocked to learn he/she was depressed, committed suicide.

Parents need to take responsibility for their children. And their animals. Animals, when they are babies, need exactly the same kind and amount of attention that human babies need. And they need love and affection too, just like babies.

The baby in the story was neglected, so was the puppy. The word "gnaw" means the dog was chomping on that poor kid for quite a while. No baby should be out of earshot! NEVER EVER!!! The parents are at fault here, period. Putting the dog down is misdirected anger. They should be angry at themselves.

I have a friend who runs a pit bull rescue and she has turned many an abused and aggressive dog around. It's not the dogs! It's not the breed! It's the way the animals are raised.

Just like children... the murderers and thieves and child abusers and vandals of this world were not raised properly. They were not loved and were probably abused. So now they are animals.

[and-justice-for-all]

142. As long as the animal is NOT provoked...

...then yes, a rabid animal is ok to put down. But if you or your kid is taunting the animal and it reacts, then you or your kid deserve what you get.

[Codeine]

143. I don't have kids...

...but I will say that if a dog threatened ME -- not just a growl, but an actual threatening move -- I'd kill it in a heartbeat. I'm an animal-loving vegan with a wonderful little mutt curled up right next to me as I type this and I can still say any animal that poses a serious threat to my well-being dies, immediately, on the spot.