Sioux Nation wonders when U.S will pull out of the Dakotas

[Stanchetalarooni]

Just what is the timetable on this matter?

[bloom]

1. Do you represent the Sioux Nation?

Or do you have a link for that?

[Stanchetalarooni]

11. I read "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" last winter on a train ride from Cleveland to Seattle.

What I read about then reminds me of what I see happening in Iraq. The idea was to civilize the Native American and indeed we did just that. Accept our civilization or die was the message and any native who resisted died.

[petgoat]

24. Back in the day, the US Army's reaction to Indian "depredations"

tended to be to mount an attack on the nearest Indians who were
sitting on the most desirable resources.

The war on Iraq fits the pattern to a T.

Also, stirring up internecine warfare, the use of mercenaries
to do the dirty work, etc... etc....

Nothing changes.



Also, there was a lot of money in contracts for hay and horses and supplies to the
army. If somebody hit a freight wagon in the woods and made off with a shipment
of carbines, a few bare footprints in the dust would be sufficient evidence of
the identity of the guilty parties to justify a war. In places where the US Army
was scarce, volunteers might be hired at high rates, who were thus highly motivated
to fabricate trouble or stir it up.

Dahr Jamail says there are as many as 70,000 mercenaries in Iraq--highly motivated
to stir up trouble to justify their high pay.

[shance]

2. Good question. So what is the history on that "deal" anyway?

Would be interesting to know.

[slackmaster]

3. As soon as I get my family's land in Germany back

From the Catholics who ran them off.

[Wild Bill]

4. well the population is shrinking there.

I am not sure. The population of North Dakota has been shrinking for the last 20 years or so. If they keep up the current pace.... 600-700 years tops.

[xchrom]

5. actually there are large tracts of land in north and south dakota

under legitimate dispute.

[TygrBright]

6. There is much to be negotiated...

...for example, which of the various bands of Sioux will take over the usury industry that supports South Dakota's economy, and what can we do to keep the Sioux from becoming a "haven" for blastocyst-killing terra-ists?

Not to mention whether the bands in northern North Dakota would encourage any separatist Sioux in Southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan to make trouble for the Friendly Giant To The North.

You have to consider these things IN DETAIL, yanno....

sourly,
Bright

[Dr Batsen D Belfry]

10. You do realize that if we are hit by

Sioux WMDs from the north during the ensuing dispute, we would be forced to annihilate Bali or some other South Pacific island.

DBDB

[Uncle Joe]

18. If that happens Bush will attack India n/t

[bahrbearian]

33. Yum, Americans are still waiting to eat delicous Mangos from India.

[zbdent]

7. The mission is not completed ...

Have you stood up?

;)

[porphyrian]

8. The signers of those treaties had their fingers crossed...

I'm thinking they'll be honored when Sioux lawyer/warriors win the case in court.

[LostinVA]

19. They have won the case in court n/t

[porphyrian]

23. Was kind of case was it (civil, federal) and what did the judge order?

What was the ruling?

[Codeblue]

25. Federal

Supreme Court ruled that the Federal government took the land wrongly. They didn't order the gov. to give it back, but that's pretty close for a Republican Court.

[porphyrian]

26. Sounds like it needs to be pursued further. Sue for action.

The ruling should go a long way in getting something, although it may only be monetary compensation. I don't know.

[Codeblue]

28. Monetary compensation

The Federal government has offered the Sioux enormous sums of money on numerous occassions and they have flatly refused it. They want the land back. They're not interested in America's "dirty money".

[porphyrian]

32. Ha! I love it. - n/t

[LostinVA]

27. Federal

It was determined it was a legit treaty and the Feds had to abide by the terms. Like they have.

I'm in the middle of something right now, but I'll find the citation later.

[H2O Man]

29. Fort Laramie Treaty n/t

[Union Thug]

9. AIM! AIM! AIM! n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Are you recommending cut and run?

[a la izquierda]

13. Bury my heart at wounded knee is a good intro...

Not the best history, but a good feet-wetter. If you really want to know more about illegal land deals, invasions, WMDs and such that our government participated in regarding Indians, send me a message. It's what I study. I can give you a few good books that will make you nuts with rage.

[xchrom]

14. if you hadn't guessed

being nuts with rage isn't what the op is into.

trivialize is a word that comes to mind for the op is interested in.

[a la izquierda]

15. no, actually I hadn't guessed.

trivializing anything regarding Iraq or Indians SHOULD make people nuts with rage. The point, to me, is injustice.

[xchrom]

16. i'm with you.

but not the op i think.

notice he says ''sioux'' and not lakota.

also notice that here at du lots ''libertarian'' types use land claims by this group or that as a reason to trivialize. inevitably first nations people come up as the butt for this trivializing.

[a la izquierda]

17. Trivialize my people

and piss me off. Thanks for the clarification.

[everythingsxen]

20. I don't know that the OP was trying to trvialize...

simply making a comparison.

[truedelphi]

22. Please post good books to read -

I have always tried to study this part of history.

one thing that makes me sad is that in my all time favorite book on Native Americans, there
was a lot of info on how until 1615 or so, the indiginous tribes and settlers lived side by side.

In fact, roughly about one fifth of every group of people who got off the boats ended up living with the natives.

Then the Radical Christian Right Wing of the era, i.e. the Pilgrims, got wise to this and started denouncing the Native Americans as heathens. So that by the time the ships landed on American shores, the religious nut case leaders hjad their followers by the balls - "Stay away from the natives or you willbe contaminated by them and when you die as a heathen you will go straight to Hell."

This tactic proved successful. And thus began the Indian wars.

Like many favorite books, I loaned this one out out and never got it back. The name of the book escaped my memory bank years ago.

[H2O Man]

30. Exhiles in the Land of the Free n/t

[TygrBright]

34. Try "The Sand Creek Massacre" by Stan Hoig...

...if you have a strong stomach.

It made me ill with rage and shame.

sadly,
Bright

[malaise]

43. I'll order that book

from B& N. Thanks
The Iraqis are treated no differently.
Here's a Sand Creek Massacre link
http://www.gfisher.org/ch_1__overkill.htm
<snip>
However, David Svaldi, iin his Sand Creek and the Rhetoric of Extermination, 1989, argues that “America’s proclivity to violence when dealing with its Native peoples has formed and influenced its behavior toward peoples of other cultures. … Whites no longer expect to encounter treachery and violence at the hands of Native Americans; that enemy was vanquished long ago. … American perceptions of ‘colored enemies’ are as likely to be as distorted as nineteenth-century perceptions of Native Americans. The USA experience in Vietnam generally and the conduct of Charlie Company at My Lai 4 further illustrate such a view.” At My Lai 4, on March 16, 1968, between 175 and 400 Vietnamese civilian men, women and children were killed by members of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, U.S. 20th Infantry under the command of Captain James Medina. Information about the incident was withheld from the general public for more than a year. In the fall of 1969, the New York Times and Life magazine revealed the story of the U.S. Army’s internal investigation. Evidence of a cover-up began to be accumulated by Seymour Hersh and others in January, 1970. Among other factors, it has been maintained that a strong element of the 48th Viet Cong Battalion was located at My Lai 4.

Edit: Correct bold

[a la izquierda]

35. Will do so in the a.m. n/t

[truedelphi]

42. Thanks for your selections. WIll try getting them on Alibris

Have not heard of any of them before.

Does anyone know how many indiginous people were here at the time that Columbus landed? I seem to remember two million - but I always thought that it could be many more than that.

[kikiek]

21. When they find another planet to go to and ruin. Of course nothing will be

left of this one.

[leftofthedial]

31. we'll never cut and run

stay the course

[tomreedtoon]

36. How many people are there now? It's a lumpy parking lot!

In the words of Gallagher, "it's the worst property on the block!" It would be tempting to say "let the Indians have it," but haven't we been cruel enough to them already?

[happydreams]

37. Then the Sioux need to vacate it to allow the Arapaho

or whatever tribe was their before them. While were at it let's leave it vacant and erect a monument to the Clovis point hunters who caused the extinction of the Mammoths. :eyes:

[H2O Man]

38. silly n/t

[happydreams]

39. Soothsaying is your forte', hope I didn't rock the

applecart.

There is a thing called humor, something I've never seen you use.

[H2O Man]

40. no.

just silly.

[happydreams]

41. So the people the Sioux ran out of region don't have rights?