Like a Fish Needs a Bicycle: For Some People, Intimacy Is Toxic

[Cant_wait_for_2008]

Like a Fish Needs a Bicycle: For Some People, Intimacy Is Toxic

By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.

Published: November 21, 2006

It is practically an article of faith among psychotherapists that an intimate human relationship is good for you. None other than Freud himself once famously said that health requires success in work and in love.

I’m not so sure. It seems that for some people, love and intimacy might not just be undesirable but downright toxic.Not long ago, a man consulted me about his 35-year-old son, who had made a suicide attempt.

“I was shocked, because he never seemed depressed or unhappy in his life,” the man said of his son. “He always preferred his own company, so we were relieved when he started to date.”

He went on to tell me that he and his wife had strongly encouraged their son to become engaged to a woman he was dating. “She was perfect for him,” he recalled. “Warm, intelligent and affectionate.”

Everything seemed to be going well until, one day, the father got a call from his son’s girlfriend. She had not heard from the son for several days, so she went to his apartment and found him semiconscious in a pool of blood. He had taken an overdose of sleeping pills and slit his wrists.

More at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/health/psychology/21case.html?_r=1&em&ex=1164344400&en=ab45e92e910964c2&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. I understand

I need my "alone time" and some people just can't accept that.

However... I also enjoy being in a relationship. Some guys are just too "clingy". "Where were you? Who were you with?" Screw that!

My kingdom for a secure (sexy) man! (Ok. My Kingdom consists of a rented apartment and 2 attendant cats... but, whatever!)



Peace to his family.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Oh If Only I Was Unmarried, The Fun We Could Have.

I totally hear ya when it comes to the alone time thing. Why ya think I'm up right now at 1:20 AM when the wife and kids are sleepin? It's the only self-time I can scrape up anymore. Weekend late nights.

I miss my world of privacy and total submersion into deep thought I used to be able to partake in. But at the same time back in those days I longed for a family as well.

If only I could live without sleep and spend the nights being me and the days being a husband/father/employee.

But alas, such is life. For now I'll continue to cherish the 2 hours or so on late night weekends I can get to myself.

[Cleita]

21. Beware of this guy!

Some guys are just too "clingy". "Where were you? Who were you with?"

That's not clingy. That's controlling behavior. I have had friends who married this type of guy and found herself systematically cut off from friends and then family.

Avoid them at all costs.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

28. been there, done that

but I learn pretty quick. :)

[hsher]

25. I'm with ya, Viva

The men I meet are shocked when I don't call them, don't cling to them, don't ask them how their day was, don't follow them around, don't Google them, don't bother them, show no interest in having them meet the family (or meeting theirs), am indifferent to having a baby with them, don't look through bridal books, could care less about becoming "a bride", have my own life, and (horrors) have a busy life full of important things to do. I've been accused of being cold, an ice princess, a b---h, a lesbian (I love how this is a pejorative somehow), "uncaring" and "not needing" them. I've been dumped by a guy for "not giving me any drama" and "not being jealous" (another DUer I know has been through the same deal from her ex-guy), and one guy told me he started mistreating me because I "wasn't the kind of girl who will get mad at me and, like, set my car on fire or throw a cinderblock through my window."

Then a lot of guys turn around and ask, "Why do nice girls always end up with bad guys?"
I'd have to reply, "Same reason nice guys go after psycho-b----s."

There's a scientific corollary in there somewhere. I need to find it. I'm with you, Viva.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. To paraphrase Betty Friedan, a problem without a name.

My father is described in the article. My brother, sister, and I have wondered for decades why we weren't "lovable" as our father has not demonstrated discernable paternal affection, and our recognition has been only in terms of criticism and what we can do for him. Saying, "Well, Dad is Dad," doesn't explain it. While the article doesn't make everything "all right", it at least explains the situation to help us accept Dad on his own terms.

[pnwmom]

10. There might be another factor in your family.

People with a lot of narcissistic traits may behave as you describe your father. There's a good paperback out that describes this kind of person. "Children of the Self-Absorbed."

It does help when you realize that, for whatever reason, your parent is limited in what he can offer you -- it's not anything you or your siblings are doing wrong.

[no_hypocrisy]

18. Thank you so much for the book alert.

Our father has been an enigma to all of us, including our mother. He is a decent person, but he just doesn't engage no matter what we say or do.

[nashville_brook]

22. The Narcissistic Family -- also a great tool

http://www.amazon.com/Narcissistic-Family-Diagnosis-Treatment/dp/0787908703/sr=1-1/qid=1164481492/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-2056497-1258220?ie=UTF8&s=books

this is written for therapists, but most of the material is relevant for personal use. the first chapter alone is worth the hefty cost of the paperback.

[nashville_brook]

20. in my ex's family of origin, criticism was a show of affection

like this... "if i didn't love you, i wouldn't tell you how little i like your clothes/job/life."

[On the Road]

3. Individual Differences Have to be Acknowledged and Accepted

but in practice they rarely are. An article like this goes against received wisdom so much that I'm almost shocked to read it.

[seabeyond]

4. i am not a people person. never have been

cut most of high school to not have to be around people. married late. fortunately my hubby allows me lots of space... and it is my family i like to hang around the most... want no one else

[Warpy]

5. Something like 25% of us are introverts

It's a minority, but enough of a minority that it has to be considered a normal variation of emotional equilibrium. We absolutely need some alone time to recharge our batteries. We're capable of intimacy, but a partner has to recognize our need to be alone for some part of every day, and that means no phone calls, no visits, no contact with anybody else at all.

Such a void would drive the other 75% of us, the extroverts, nuts. They'd be looking under sofa cushions for that cell phone, looking outside to see if a stranger was around to talk to. Extroverts like crowds and noise, introverts like small groups and quiet.

This kid does sound like a schizoid personality, one that takes introversion to an extreme. They find any intimate contact exquisitely painful, although they do well in impersonal, professional situations.

A lot of extroverts simply can't wrap their minds around introversion, let alone a schizoid type personality or a recently described cousin, Asperger's syndrome. It's tragic he found one of those as a therapist. Nobody told him he could run away, and that's exactly what he should have done as soon as she medicalized something that was quite normal for him and she made him less functional in so doing.

I'm glad the author of this article finally understood and I'm glad he was able to help the family understand.

[Withywindle]

6. Yup, and...

...there are different kinds of introverts. I'm a cyclical one. It's the only part of my Meyers-Briggs profile that varies widely depending on when I take it. Sometimes I need to be social and sometimes I need a LOT of alone time, and that cycles over months and years. But when I'm in an introvert phase, man, the sound of a human voice, anyone's, is like nails on a chalkboard. I have feelings of violence if I'm interrupted while reading.

Also there's a difference between being introverted in the sense of wanting a very few intimate relationships, and wanting none at all. Neither is "wrong" but they're not quite the same. It sounds like this person could actually present as an extrovert sometimes, as he seems able to get along with groups of people and all. He just doesn't have a desire to go very deep.

I'm glad he survived and his family got a better understanding of him.

[clyrc]

15. That's me, too

Sometimes I need to be around people, and sometimes I don't. I married another cyclical introvert, and my oldest daughter is one too, but my youngest daughter is wildly extroverted.

[bananas]

9. A good book about this: "The Introvert Advantage"

http://www.theintrovertadvantage.com
http://www.amazon.com/Introvert-Advantage-Thrive-Extrovert-World/dp/0761123695

[pnwmom]

11. Another is "The Highly Sensitive Person."

[Nobody]

24. It's socially unacceptable to be an introvert

was the message that I heard loud and clear as a child. I was never outgoing enough, never had enough friends, was too much the quiet one. I still like to stay home and read, but I do like a good rollicking party now and then. But eventually I get to go home and stay the hell away from people.

Ever read all those news stories about the quiet ones? Every time someone goes off the deep end, they're always described as quiet, nice people you never get to know very well. If we don't take back our country from the fear-mongers, pretty soon it will not only be unacceptable to be introverted, it will be a crime.

[man4allcats]

7. I have always been pretty much like this.

Many people have asked me why I habitually am not in relationships and whether I find my lifestyle lonely. Generally, I am fairly comfortable the way I am. I live with a big old black cat, and that suits us both pretty well. I was married once a long time ago, but I see no need to repeat that fiasco. The guy in the article sounds very much like me to me. I'm grateful that at least one medical type has had the insight to state that maybe that's just the way some people are. For them, it's normal.

[sweetheart]

8. The need to love

This article is wise, the self-reflection of 'being loved' in relationship is ego,
but the 'loving' however much unconditional that is, is the part that feeds the soul,
and no number of studies can show the intent inside a person's heart, to love, or
to fake it... only they know.

[nashville_brook]

12. it's my ex-husband!

totally -- really -- it is.

[northamericancitizen]

14. For more personal testimony on this , visit the Loner Forum here on DU

Speaking for myself I spent most of my life interacting with people: employees costumers etc.

At 50 something I now avoid most human interactions. They drain me.

Look out articles and testimonies about the Hypersensitive ones. Not all of us are introvert.

I think that over the years I used up most of the energy (stored in my energy bank) for interpersonal encounters. Intimate or casual.

I am not sad, angry or revolted about my deficiency. I cherish and appreciate any long period where I don,t have to interact.

I gave a lot to society and I received ( more accurately: learned) more than many, Now I need time to continue integrating all that I perceived or sensed. Time is the essential element.

But it takes a lot of disciplined and courage to decide to isolate yourself from the human family.

This message may be fuzzy and lacking logical transition .

Sorry about that.

At times I have been labeled as a walking computer, cold cartesian interlocutor etc.

The truth is that at the end of the day, when I am exhausted I am primarily an emotionally overreacting bipolar human (being female is a coincidance...?).

Anyway coming back to the potential toxicity of intimate relationship: I agree 100%

At 14 when I was going tru the angst of adolescence, I often found solace visualizing myself as a single female adult, coming back in my hometown, head up and self sufficient.

Enough for tonight.


Peace

lise

[BlueIris]

16. Yeah. And a severe shortage of decent people to be intimate with

in this society just compounds the difficulties that those of us who don't really need intimacy in our lives face if we try to integrate others into our otherwise satisfactory personal lives.

[hsher]

26. Indeed

I've given up.

[bklyncowgirl]

17. Never try to teach a pig to sing it's a waste of time and annoys the pig

I'm married and absorbed in family and work but I need some time by myself or if I want company it's in the form of my horse who, unusual for an equine, enjoys solitary trail rides as much as I do. On a trail with other horses, his Thoroughbred competetive streak kicks in and he's focused on proving he's faster and tougher than anyone else and I have to engage in small talk.

Alone we can both relax.

Very often I think longingly back to the tiny apartment I had in Park Slope right after I got my first "real" job. By myself most of the time except for a few special people, visit the family on weekends, my music playing, good books--the occaisional man--I was satisfied.

I'm not a total introvert. I've played around with that Meirs Briggs thing and apparently I'm a mild extrovert but a mild extrover married to an extreme extrovert such as my husband needs to carve out alone time. My husband can't understand to this day why I'd rather read a book than go to a party or why I'm not calling my old friends and family every day.

It sounds like the guy in the article had it together in his own way and people should have let him be. To quote (innacurately) another old saying "Never try to teach a pig to sing it's a waste of time and annoys the pig.

[nashville_brook]

19. *toxic intimacy* is a damn good hook, but this article left me wanting more

according to my therapist, a good working definition of intimacy is "into-me-see." an intimate couple is open to each other's interior, one-on-one. they participate in intimcay through cuddling, touching, and most importantly: sex.

some of my fellow DU introverts in this thread have expressed a desire to find a loving mate who also appreciates alone-time. i think this is a horse of a different color. if you want a lover, then intimacy isn't a toxic exercise for you. rather, it's constant casual contact.

my ex actually craved constant casual contact. he loved to hold forth and entertain people. he loved sitting for hours and chewing the fat, but he couldn't tolerate intimate contact. it kinda reminds me of developmental psych -- waaaay back in my college ed -- the thing about infants who stiffen when held; it's a physical reaction, and i can't remember if that's a sign of autism or cerebal palsy -- but that's what his reaction to imtimacy was like. it was a pronouonced physical repulsion.

talk about a frustrating marriage. i loved him completely and i know he "loved" me the best way he knew how -- but he simply could not tolerate physcial *intimate* contact... which, btw, is different from simple sexual contact. simple sexual contact can be completely void of emotional value and he was fine with that. it was the "intimate" part.

i could write a book on this as i lived it and tried my best to work with him and deconstruct his intimacy issues for the better part of 20 years. there's plenty written on The Fear Of Intimacy -- but that's not what he had. it wasn't *fear.* and it wasn't disgust -- it was aversion that (wow) felt like toxicity. and here's the rub -- his mother displayed this, so you can imagine both a genetic and a conditioned toxic response. so, therapy was an exercise in frustration; it was like using talk therapy to try and help a normal man fly. "just flap your wings... it's easy." poor thing. he put me thru hell, but i can't help but have sympathy for someone who may never know the joy the intimate love.

[EST]

23. Try not to feel sorry...

It is a waste of your sympathy. Perhaps there are those (I happen to know there are) who feel sorry for others who desperately need to complicate their lives with intimate others.

Of course, "The grass is always greener" syndrome complicates the hell out of knowing one's self too often.

[nashville_brook]

29. it the kind of sympathy you have for a three-legged dog

because really, they are getting along fine for all they know. but in your mind all you can think of is how he should have *all four legs.* oh, how much happier he'd be.

it's that kind of waste -- :) -- b/c to his mind he's perfectly happy.

and yes, it takes a lot of personal work to get to the place where you can have this kind of detachment. imagine the self-blame, being in a marriage with someone incapable of intimacy. oh, the folly! the self-help books! the lingerie! the waiting and hoping that something will give.

here's the breakdown. you start with the usual self-examination. what am *i* doing wrong? worse, what's *wrong* with me? then, it's detachment. give him his space. soon, a decade has passed and you've forgot to have children. so you decide to try and you find out that there's *never* a good time, because, intimacy is involved. so then it's back to reflecting on yourself, only this time your question is, "what's wrong with me, that I stay in this?

sometimes when you hit a brick wall, it's your way out.

[EST]

31. You sure said a mouthful!

"sometimes when you hit a brick wall, it's your way out."


On the other hand, assuming that person has been introspective enough to learn himself, perhaps, although he may be a little envious from time to time, he can view "normal" people who are devoted to intimacy as embarrassing and a little like a fish with an extra leg.

Sooo many people, sadly, take a heartbreakingly long time to learn that they are perfectly O K the way they are and so is everyone else.
It is so difficult to learn that, beyond a little honing to fit, we cannot change ourselves very much and surely can't change the person we have chosen to love.

[mainer]

27. He sounds like he has Aspergers

They don't particularly need or want intimacy. It's just the way they are, and you can't change them.

[undeterred]

30. Does anyone out there realize how much shit people get for being single?

Its a status that always needs to be defended. I can't count how many times I've been asked- "How come you're not married?" OR "I can't figure out why you're not married" as if they've carefully examined me and haven't found the single flaw large enough to make every man in the world reject me. It never occurs to them that being single is a choice for some of us.

And imagine how rude we would be considered if we said to someone "How come you're married? Are you just desperately afraid to be alone?" That would be really rude, wouldn't it.

:rant:

[alarimer]

32. I can identify with almost everything on this thread

I am not as bad as the guy in the article. I want friendships and intimacy but I just don't know how. I never know what to say, even. I often completely freeze up and end up saying nothing at all. I crave physical contact but almost never get it because I cannot make the first move.

At the same time I am an introvert; I do need to spend a substantial amount of time alone. At the same time I find that I am deeply lonely right now (probably it's being around relatives who are mostly happily involved). Plus the lack of sex is, shall we say, a BIG problem for me.