Some Basic Facts About the UCLA Case

[Jcrowley]

Some Basic Facts About the UCLA Case

Based on the most recent article in the Los Angeles Times, here are the basic facts about the case involving the repeated tasering of a young man in the UCLA library on Wednesday.

Ddi the young man have any business being in the library?

Absolutely.  Mostafa Tabatabainejad is a senior at UCLA and was entitlted to be in the library where many students were busy studying for mid-term exams.

Is Mr. Tabatabainejad a legal or illegal alien?

He is an American citizen, born in the United States.

Why was he initially targeted?

UCLA has a policy of conducting random ID checks in the library after 11 PM.  They asked Mr. Tabatabainejad for his ID, but he refused because he felt he was being targeted on account of his Middle Eastern appearance according to his attorney.  The UCLA employee then asked Mr. Tabatabainejad to leave the library and he initially refused.

Why was he first tasered?

The UCLA library security guard went to get two UCLA policemen after Mr. Tabatabainejad refused to show his ID or leave.  By the time the two UCLA policemen arrived, Mr. Tabatabainejad was walking toward the exit with his backpack slung over his shoulder.  When one of the policeman grabbed his arm, Mr. Tabatabainejad objected verbally and was tasered.

Did the student offer any physical resistance?

According to UCLA police officials, Mr. Tabatabainejad never actively resisted the officers.  He never struck them, but was only a "passive resister." 

Why was he repeatedly tasered?

According to UCLA police, Mr. Tabatabainejad fell to the floor after he was first tasered and refused to get up.  They have a policy--unlike that of many other police agencies--of tasering people in order to get them to comply with orders even if they do not present any threat to police officers or others.

Did the police threaten to taser any other students?

Several other students reported that police threatened to taser them when they objected to Mr. Tabatabainejad's treatment or asked for their badge number and name.

Was Mr. Tabatabainejad making a political point?

Quite possibly.  He mentioned the Patriot Act and encouraged other students to join him in his "resistance,"  This was cited by police as a reason for his tasering.

Have the policemen been suspended or disciplined?

No.  The acting UCLA chancellor has initiated an independent investigation.

The frightening video taken by a student is here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E
 

[Buzz Clik]

1. Cops not suspended?

Have the policemen been suspended or disciplined?

No. The acting UCLA chancellor has initiated an independent investigation.

Fascinating. I am also interested in the comment that they "have a policy--unlike that of many other police agencies--of tasering people in order to get them to comply with orders even if they do not present any threat to police officers or others." Wow. If these brutal pigs were blindly following orders, then somebody else gets fired.

[lumpy]

21. So, follow orders or get tasered, even if no laws

are being broken or there is no threat to police or others. This will come in handy if students decide to protest. No sit-ins, like "stand up, do as I say or you get tasered". Too much authority in the hands of incompetence. Next thing we know we will be herded around like cattle. Yee Hah.

[peacetalksforall]

2. The blame goes to Gonzales Ashcroft and thier bosses plus the

designers of PNAC and the barons. Blame from all their unilateral actions and the fear they planted on this country is on their plate. Plus, politicians who acted out of fear of losing votes.

[Raskolnik]

5. Or, perhaps, these guards were just shitty at their jobs.

Were Janet Reno & the Democratic administration responsible for every instance of police/LEO misconduct during the 1990's?

[Donnachaidh]

11. these cops were LAPD wannabees

they should have been put on unpaid suspension until the incident is checked out thoroughly.

[Raskolnik]

20. I don't disagree. n/t

[MurrayDelph]

33. Not just "LAPD wannabees"

several decades ago, I not only went to UCLA, but worked there. I had a run-in with one
cop who tried hassling me for running a stop sign (Which I hadn't. I don't believe in the
Slight-Tap-On-Pedal type of stops, and I knew that sign was there). It was only when he found
out that I was an employee that he "let me off with a warning."

UniCops are not just LAPD rejects, they have also typically been turned down by CHP and Los Angeles
Sheriff's Dept (and even my drunken, pedophile of a father-in-law qualified for Sherrif's).

[peacetalksforall]

14. Why did you specify Reno and the Dem Admin and not specify.

the FBI or ATF or ???

If you're referring to Waco, I don't buy it. Until I know more, that was a set-up?

On learning what I am learning about the political leanings of our employees who run and work for all the law and intelligence forces - I believe that nearly all who have led those agencies are political partners of the right wing. Who better to set up? Who better to set up than the CIA when Kennedy was President. It's now my basic principle - until I know more, we do not have bi=partisan employees that we pay for.

So why Reno and Dem Admin? Why not the forces? By the way, what is LEO so that I don't have to look it up?

Reno and the Dem admin were not perfect. Our law and intelligence agencies are quite a bit more unpatriotic for their non bi-partisan execution of their job.

The FBI facilitated the character assassination,set-up, harrassment, and impeachmentnd of Clinton. There is no doubt in my mind.

So I ask. Educate me.

[Raskolnik]

18. I'm not trying to make a point about Reno--

I'm trying to point out that its rather silly to blame the Attorney General of the United States for the actions of a couple of knucklehead UCLA security guards.

The same reasons that make it ridiculous to blame Janet Reno for Abner Louima make it ridiculous to blame Alberto Gonzalez for these security guards' actions.

[Bassic]

25. I believe the poster was referring to the fact that it is even possible

for a police department (especially campus police) to have a policy of tasering people even if they are not threatening just to get them to comply with your orders. That screams abuse right there, but I doubt they'll have to repeal their policy, short of being forced to by new legislation.

Whether that is actually the AG's fault is unclear to me though.

[peacetalksforall]

26. I should have included that this was a top down incident that

this student was subject to. I'm trying to point out that if we look at the bosses of these guards and/or cops, they have to look at their bosses for the policies, practices, and mind-sets. Some people act on their own from their own centers, but most of these guards/cops get a message from those above them. Ashcroft followed by Gonzales are the key figures in this country who have facilitated all the justifications for the terror that is being reigned down on us, the Iraqis, and every other victim of terror fear. They are and have been the arm of PNAC. How far is their reach? We've just seen it.

When did the random checks of computer users in a state run university library get started? Were Vitenamese looking students studying in a state run university library randomly checked during the Vietnam war? Is the use of computers the reason for all this? Or is just heritage?

This entire situation was created. This was an outcome. Who deserves the blame?

[treestar]

37. IA, and the culture they created among people who work for the

government in the executive branch, that they are all powerful and need only invoke terra to justify doing anything they want.

[Dhalgren]

3. "Random ID checks" are not singling out an individual and asking

for an ID. That isn't "random", that is "targeted" checking. "Random" ID checks would be set up at the entrance and everyone walking in at a specific time would be checked. That is "random". It is always ill-advised to use targeted ID checks, unless the target is giving some sort of cause for checking. This is a poorly set-up procedure by UCLA and should be changed...

[malaise]

7. Random checks by definition

do not mean checking everyone, but if the one you check fits a particular profile then it is targeting. Random would be every fifth desk or something like that.

[Dhalgren]

19. No, actually "random" checks in a university setting, mean checking

everyone in a particular setting or at a particular time. If you walk into a room of twenty students and pick one to ID check, that is not "random", but "targeted". When the police set up road blocks for sobriety tests, they stop everyone going past their blocks. That is "random", in that they are not checking every motorist on the road, just the ones who pass the blocks. They can stop any individual motorist, if they have "cause" to stop them. That is the difference between the two types of "searches" or "checkings".

[petronius]

38. If every student in the room had an equal probability of being the one selected

then the ID check was/would be random.

[Dhalgren]

39. Right, which means singling one student out of a group is NOT

random. I work at a university where this sort of thing has been gone over and over. There is no way to make the singling out of one student in a group be random, it never is - or, at least, can not be proved to be...

[peacetalksforall]

8. You're right - distinctions always act as filters and funneling to

get at the truth.

If UCLA is conducting their own investigation, they need to act fast, clarify, and tighten up on their philosophy without judging this target or any other target.

[AX10]

4. Even Taser Int (with all of their ethically challenged actions)...

does not recomend using the taser as a means to get compliance. The purpose of this weapon was to subdue violent suspects instead of risking getting into a physical altercation.

"They have a policy--unlike that of many other police agencies--of tasering people in order to get them to comply with orders even if they do not present any threat to police officers or others."

Basically, the UCLA cops are lazy sob's! There is a risk with every job. As a police officer you signed on to accept those risks, including physical injury. If you do not want to take that risk, then find another job.

There were four cops against one civilian. They could have easily removed him from the library.

[Jcrowley]

9. As was pointed out

in another thread, and as you allude to, tasers are not meant to get people up as the cops were demanding but to put people down.

This was blatantly a criminal act by the police. They should be facing criminal charges. I suspect no more than a transfer or demotion or removal and then re-entry into a different force will be the outcome as well as the University patying some damages.

[mike_c]

6. quite right-- and the "policy" of tasering to induce compliance...

...with routine orders rather than in response to threats is extrajudicial punishment-- read police oppression-- at best.

on edit-- this was meant to be a reply to Dhalgren's #3

[FogerRox]

10. If I tasered you , and you fell down, because of being tasered,

could you get back up on command?

[bloom]

12. That is part of why it seems so horrible to me.

I think that he probably could not get up. And so here they are rendering him unable to comply while at the same time insisting that he do so.

I'm definitely in favor of having any of the tasering people fired. And I expect that the student should be able to successfully sue the school as well.



(Democracy Now has a segment on this today).

[AX10]

16. You know what I can't stand are these right wingers who are....

distorting the facts and saying that he "deserved it".

[bloom]

28. That's ridiculous.

We live in parallel universes. That's the only thing that explains it.

[shanti]

31. yes

i'm arguing with 'em on another board and all i hear is "well, if he'd left when he was first asked to, this would have been a moot point".

[Jcrowley]

13. Unlikely

"The idea that Tasers are generally safe is completely fictional," he said.

Taser International repeatedly has countered Amnesty International's criticisms by saying that the weapon has not been ruled the cause of any of the 103 deaths following shocks tracked by Amnesty. "That's fine," Jackson says. "Where are the studies that show it's never been a contributing factor? Because that's the question we're asking."

Tasers have been cited in autopsies of at least two people who have died following shocks in Florida, which leads the nation in Taser-involved deaths with 24 since 1999. After a man shocked with a Taser in Escambia County died in January, a medical examiner declined to cite either a cause or manner of death, saying that not enough is known about the weapon's effects.

In November, excerpts of an Air Force study were released saying that Taser shocks can change blood chemistry, potentially leading to heart damage. The study recommended medical monitoring of those shocked with Tasers.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2005/05/30/m1a_taser_0530.html

[FogerRox]

27. After having your muscles all contracted.... I know I wouldn't be able to stand

For a minute

[Kagemusha]

15. It would be difficult at best.

The effects of a taser depend on the individual and all but... the point being, tasering someone because he's not obeying an order to get up - after being tasered - is irrational. Then again, it would seem that the policy the police were blindly following was poorly written and, in easy to predict situations, irrational in itself.

[warrens]

17. I say just taser the cops in public five or six times

Might make them a little slower on the draw next time.

[nebenaube]

22. "pain compliance technicque"

is a euphamism for torture. If UCLA stands behind this policy and the threashold for enacting it is that low then I'm afraid there are major personnel and policy changes in store for california.

[TlalocW]

23. Huh, when I was in college

We had to show ID to get into the computer lab in the first place, and there was always someone there to check your ID. If you weren't a student, you weren't allowed in. I guess that's too difficult a system for UCLA to implement.

TlalocW

[Iris]

30. It wasn't a computer lab it was a library.

And they only check IDs after 11:00 p.m. Students must have IDs and vistors must be registered to protect the safety of the students.

[Alsteen]

32. Sorry

He was in the computer lab. My wife works at a different library at UCLA and gave me the entire lowdown. The cops overreacted but the kid was being a total jerk too ....

[Iris]

34. ok. But still, all reports indicate that other folks besides students

might be in the building.

and the kid's a kid. A cop who works on a college campus oughta have enough training to know how to deal with hysterics 'cause I'm sure that kind of crap happens fairly often.

[Ms. Clio]

35. yeah, and did he have to sign in with a password to use a computer in the computer lab?

If so, then he was clearly a student with every legal right to be there. So why hassle him in the first place? Just to see a stupid card?

[Bridget Burke]

40. Since your wife knows the "entire lowdown"....

Perhaps you can tell us more. Of course, as she works in a different library, she wasn't actually a witness. She's an employee of UCLA.

Does someone deserve repeated tasering for being a "total jerk"?

[AX10]

41. The kid didn't deserve what happened to him.

[Bassic]

24. I can't friggin believe they weren't suspended.

This is un-fucking believable. Would they still be working at all if this was a white student?

[Bassic]

29. Here's a nauseating conservative response to the whole thing

http://www.californiaconservative.org/liberals/mostafa-tabatabainejad-uclas-angry-campus-activist/

Do you think he'd be as hard lined if the victim had been a white-bread Christian boy?

[AX10]

36. The silence would have been deafening on the right.