If this Administration will illegally SPY, then they'll HACK Elections

[Lex]

and it's as simple as that.

Spying on US Citizens and hacking Elections Results--they kind of go hand-in-hand.

They will maniupulate things in SECRET so they can get the result they want. They have to have information obtained secretly to work covertly to manipulate that data and win elections.

[prudentlike]

1. Also:

If this administration will leak the identity of CIA agents, they'll steal elections too.

[stepnw1f]

4. Damn Straight, and Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. If they will illegally wiretap American citizens,

lie about why we go to war, torture prisoners, leak the identity of a CIA agent, pay jornalists for favorable article for their policies, they'll steal elections too.

on edit...Welcome to DU....:hi:

[newyawker99]

16. Hi prudentlike!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[TayTay]

2. That is indeed the flip side of their philosophy

of, 'Whatever it takes.' That can be a very scary notion.

[Marr]

3. It's true, they both describe an administration that despises the public.

[Lex]

And has contempt for the public and knows what is "good for" the public.

They harvest secret information illegally.

They maniupulate the data behind the scenes.

[Marr]

10. Very true- remember what they did when the Turkish goverment

did the unthinkable, by bowing to their peoples' demands not to allow the US to use Turkey as a staging point for the Iraq invasion? Wolfowitz openly suggested that the Turkish military should stage a coup.

These people *despise* democracy.

[EST]

5. For the good of the people.

After all, it's a known fact that dems can't keep us safe, so the constitution and 911 demand that Kerry be defeated, by whatever method works. "But I wouldn't do anything illegal!"

[leftofthedial]

7. and blow up office buildings

and lie us into "war"

[seafan]

8. Hacking elections in 2000, spying on Americans begins in 2001.

A criminal enterprise is running our government. That's all we need to know.

[fooj]

9. You bet your sweet bippy!

Peace.

[Peace Patriot]

11. You know what? If you'd asked me before the 2004 election: Would the

Bushites, having arranged for their buds at Diebold and ES&S to control vote tabulation with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls, and had somehow gotten the Dem Party leadership to be utterly silent and acquiescent on Bushites gaining control of the vote count, WOULD the Bushites, in my opinion, then use that opportunity to steal another election?....

...I would have just laughed, and said, "Is the Pope Catholic?" A no-brainer, it seems to me. I knew it then. I know it now.

Yet I was still shocked when it happened. Maybe more shocked by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies FALSIFYING their exit polls to "fit" the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae (their collusion in the fraud)--and more than shocked--floored!--by the Dems' early concession. But shocked at the simple fact of it: They designed it for fraud, and they of course took advantage of the fraudulent election system that they had put in place with the $4 billion HAVA boondoggle, to commit fraud.

Shocked in the way that I was shocked the other day when Bush said that he'd not only broken the law 30 times, he intended to keep on breaking the law--with no immediate action by Congress to remove him from office. Shocked, even though I know that Diebold and ES&S "selected" a third to half of this Congress, with the rest (sans the 125 or so who voted against the Iraq war resolution, and are still there), having been installed in various corrupt ways, by corporations and war profiteers.

It's hard to take in just how far along the road to fascism we have gone, and that every institution of our democracy has failed us.

We have a narrowing window of opportunity to reverse course, by pressuring state and local officials for election transparency--removal of private corporations from the system, open source code (if it's electronic) with paper ballot backup, a 10% recount/audit and other controls, or return to all paper ballots hand-counted at the precinct level.

There are election reform movements around the country to get this done--with some early successes (in Florida, Calif, NY and NC). It is a very committed and passionate movement. Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny.

---------------

For an easy to read pamphlet on the perils of electronic voting ("MythBreakers"). (One of the myths is that HAVA mandated electronic voting; it did NOT; citizens and election officials still have a choice!)
www.votersunite.org

For a project for statistical monitoring and challenges of elections in '06 and '08:
www.UScountvotes.org

Russ Holt's bill HR 550 will stop the corporate privatization of our elections in its tracks, and reverse it. It has 169 co-sponsors (mostly Dems). Sign the petition. http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html

See Bob Koehler's article about the recent Ohio election reform initiatives, predicted to win by 60/40, but flipped over into 60/40 LOSSES on election day--the worst flipped vote yet:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

For the recent GAO report on the grave insecurity of our election system in 2004:
access to pdf: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-956
text only: http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05956.html

For more info: www.verifiedvoting.org

For analysis of the 2004 election results (and exit polls):
www.TruthIsAll.net

News updates on election fraud/reform:
http://www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml

For how these Bushite electronic voting companies are corrupting state/local election officials with lavish lobbying, see this recent example--a week of fun, sun and high end shopping at the Beverly Hilton for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, this August:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

------------------------------------------



"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."--Josef Stalin

[lucca]

13. I am drowning in a sea of corruption...

You are right Peace Patriot:
"Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny."

Thanks for the valuable information on election fraud.

[warbly]

12. how could any dem be willing to give the bushies

the benefit of the doubt, if there is any doubt left about vote fraud in 04 and 2000.
After 911, Iraq, and now the NSA setting a vacuum on the telco switches, in total secrecy.
---
they'd never dream of manipulating the vote count. sheesh.
what really gets me is the top liberal blogs won't even broach the subject, to this day. DU is the exception.
journalists and bloggers are too afraid they will tarnish their reputations by addressing "conspiracy theories" about evoting fraud. since there is no hard physical evidence like broken locks and tampered with ballots, they won't go there, mostly.
they are afraid of being lumped together with UFO enthusiasts, and such, and it is a legitimate fear as the bushie machine has worked overtime to label anyone who goes near the subject.

[Lex]

14. I agree. I don't understand why the liberal bloggers won't "go there"

when there is plenty of evidence that the Bush Administration has NO qualms about operating in secrecy to manipulate data in order to get what they want.

Not to make a tedious German analogy yet again, but there were plenty of German citizens who would've never believed that concentration camps were in operation either.

We have to wake up and STOP giving Bush the benefit of the doubt, as you say warbly.

[Twist_U_Up]

15. ANTHRAX

[applegrove]

17. We don't have the proof. So saying they stole elections by machine

is speculation. Sorry. But it is.

They stole hearts & minds.

[Stevepol]

20. Proof is in the mind of the jury and the judge. We have tons of evidence.

Statistical, anecdotal, circumstantial, whistle-blower, common-sense, you name it -- everything points to fraud in 02 in GA, 04 in the nat'l election (and 96 in NE as well when Hagel supposedly won by 83% when the Dem I think was leading in the pre-election polls. Hagel even won some black districts in Lincoln that had never voted Repub. Google Hartmann's articles to Common Dreams about that).

If, after looking at the moutains of evidence, you still say there's no proof, I demand proof of your own sanity (proof, not just opinion or circumstantial evidence or statistical evidence or any other kind of evidence. If you claim you're sane, I want PROOF!!)

[applegrove]

21. Why would the "wrong exit poll numbers" not be an example of jerking

the exit poll numbers around to keep harried Dems at home in their surety that kerry won? There is as much evidence of that than there is that the exit polls were all perfect and proove votes were stolen (exit polls were just as wrong in areas that had no diebold machines).

I'm saying - yes malfesance. But keep your options open. You are assuming you figured it all out. And you don't have the proof. You just have a theory on diebold. Much evidence of other types of election games.

Transparency now - for all of us.

[killbotfactory]

18. If a company can't verify their machines work correctly, they won't

If they can be hacked, they will be.

[Rocknrule]

19. "We had to steal the election in order to defend Murika's freedom!"

"If Kerry had been elected, we would've staged anothe...I mean, there would've been another terra-ist attack, so we had to rig the election to protect Murika from terra!"

Can't you just see him using that argument?

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. And they have, see elections '00 '02'04, coming soon too elections

'06 and '08. "Free and Fair" my ass. :grr: