Dems cut a deal? Alito for Bush

[Ugnmoose]

This whole Alito vote stinks to high heaven. It makes absolutely no sense why the Dems rolled over. The only thing I can think of is that a back room deal was cut. The Dems give em Alito and the Repukes vote for a Bush Impeachment. Before you start screaming - no way, think about it. Hearings are about to start on the NSA Illegal wiretapping. Everyone knows they have "His Majesty" stone cold guilty of violating the FISA Act and Article 4 of the Constitution. Hell he even proudly admits to it. The Repukes will be hard pressed to explain this one away. So they cut a deal with the Dems to get Alito on the Court. They save face with the hard core evangelical rght wingers and get to cut and run in time to save their own necks for the mid-term elections.

[LeftNYC]

1. Alito will be around much longer then Dubya...nt

[saltpoint]

2. Hadn't considered this at all, but it's provocative and interesting.

O let an impeachment proceeding commense.

In the meanwhile, I'm supporting the most progressive and least betraying Democrats I can find.

[bklyncowgirl]

3. I doubt it very much.

The probably promised them a highway project or two--which will soon be axed from the budget anyway.

[HereSince1628]

14. I think Wisconsin got nothing from Kohl's vote.

Herb might have found personal satisfaction in being "independent," but it is hard to see the pukes giving him anything he'd want.

[Sammy Pepys]

4. The Reps would never trade Alito for an impeachment vote....

And the Dems would be nuts to do the same.

[mtnester]

10. Specially during a crucial election year

now way was that trade brokered

[cascadiance]

19. Who knows maybe they did, think about it...

If they show themselves "against" Bush in the case they know he's dead meat in terms of getting nailed for impeachment, they might save their seats.

In addition, by putting in Alito, they perhaps let Bush get off the hook when stuff goes before the Supreme Court that would allow the new Rethuglican majority to dismiss everything the Rethugs don't like. Then the congress can just point a finger back at the Supremes and say "It's not my fault!", even though, of course, many should note that they put Alito on this court to start with!

[Sammy Pepys]

31. Reasons why not::

1) Impeachments are brought up by the House of Reps. How are a bunch of Senators going to speak for their colleagues in the House? The only deal that could legitimately be made would be to vote for conviction, but to even get to that point the House has to file articles. Way too flimsy to base anything on.

2) The '06 elections. How do you know who will even be around to pull it off? Would you cut a deal with unknown parties?

3) Back to the '06 elections: it's probably more likely articles would be filed after that. So you're going into '07 before any real movement towards impeachment begins, and you're probably looking at the end of '07 at the earliest that anything shakes out from it. I don't think anyone in Congress is going to be motivated to go for it with that kind of timeframe. Most of the focus of '08 will be on the Presidential candidates, and by that time most Dems are going to be worried about putting up a strong nominee.

[SillyGoose]

5. I wish I shared your optimism on this. I think they just f*ing caved

like so many of them have done in the past.

[hippiechick]

38. I agree.

:(

[JackintheGreen]

6. The Repubs concede nothing

They never will. There was no deal. Why on earth should they give dems anything now that that have a strangle-hold on all branches of government and the fourth estate to boot?

[Pale Blue Dot]

7. If they did, they're morons

These Republicans have broken every promise they've made, with absolutely no consequences.

[OzarkDem]

25. You're reading my mind

One can only hope they weren't that stupid.


:banghead:

[DancingBear]

8. You are assuming two things

1) The Democrats have political savvy.

2) The Democrats have balls.

Neither is true.

They are petrified of losing their seats. Period.

They rolled to save (in their minds) their own asses.

Nothing more.

[OzarkDem]

28. And it will help them

about as much as their votes to allow Bush to invade Iraq, IOW not at all.

[Kolesar]

9. and Rumsfeld becomes VP...eom

[jfern]

11. Nope

The deal was Alito in exchange for being able to lick Bush's ass.

[peacebird]

21. exactly. Stupid craven bastards.

:grr:

BURN THE PHONE LINES UP TOMORROW WITH OUR VOCAL FURY.

Let's make sure these cowardly imbeciles KNOW that they have screwed up BIG TIME.

and then work with everything you have to get their primary opponent on the ticket and elected in their place.

[fooj]

12. Hell, Faux News had a poll that said 54% did not want Alito on SCOTUS!

And that was FAUX NEWS!!!!

Peace.

[Hawkeye-X]

13. If that is the deal.. then...

I think we get a two-fer.. Alito and Bush impeached along with Roberts and the rest of the maladministration.

[WinkyDink]

15. Please. WE'RE the Party in the Reality-based Universe.

[Balbus]

17. Since when?

[Dr Fate]

16. No, they were black-mailed or just caved b/c it was easier.

It was not so they could kick ass- we dont do that.

[chimpymustgo]

22. Ding ding ding! Sorry, No noble agreements here.

Neither side is capable.

[stillcool]

18. We may never know why...

they rolled over, but whatever it is it's dirty, and it ain't worth it. No Meaningful Election Reform, consolidation of power to the executive branch, and the litany of civil rights, and freedoms soon to be curtailed or eliminated are our future. Heil King Bush..

[Mind_your_head]

20. Wishful thinking......there was no deal.

Ladies: Start sewing those burkas....and ehm, spread those legs, and don't expect that promotion

'Ethnics': Well, you're 'ethnic' again, not regular citizens (listen to what Senator Cronyn said today....that's what he said!!!!)

and ehm, the idiot in chief will soon be your king (treat him with respect)

[peacebird]

23. please help a cubical rat out - what did Cronyn say?

have you a link to text? (can't do streaming video or sound)

[Mind_your_head]

34. The best I can offer is to read the DU threads following today's

senate's 'event'. Hopefully, you will be able to listen for yourself the whole proceeding...

Look here (Alito thread #5). Start reading at about post #24 and go down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x270261

[peacebird]

36. thanks, i read the thread but now my head hurts...

we are SO forked....


:grr:

[Ugnmoose]

24. Bush is becoming a major liability

Just look at the numbers. The latest poll shows at least a 15 percent advantage to Dems for the mid-term elections. This spells disaster for the Repukes. The only way they can save themselves and the Party is to throw Bush over board. This is being talked about not so quietly right now inside the beltway. This is one big poker game. The Dems desperately want Bush impeached. They would like to bet on the mid-terms, but can't be certain. The Repukes supposedly hold all the cards since they have the majority in both houses, but they can't risk their necks in the mid-terms. The Repukes might be betting that by jettisoning Bush and making some superficial house cleaning changes they can appease enough voters to stay in the fold and vote them back in.

So what was the bargaining chip. I say it was Alito. The Repukes needed him on the Court to satiate their nutwing base. Remember you always have to pander to the base. And they will be able to rationalize an impeachment vote because of the Nixon precedent and plain old constitutional grounds. This can play to the true conservatives.

[Lena inRI]

26. Wishful thinking Ugnmoose. . .

I admire your persistent optimism. . .I'm long past that stage. . .what we are witnessing is a precipitous descent into corporate fascism. . .Congress has been up for sale and today the deal was sealed.

At this point, my view is that only two forces can release us from the corporate clutches:
~another major economic depression
~and/or, spontaneous working/middle class rioting

China will be the prime mover toward either of these forces since they are becoming the creditors to this dumbass debt-ridden nation.

Plan according. . .I know I am from this day forward.


;(

[Ugnmoose]

33. Not wishful at all

I am a realist. I think the Dems should have pulled out all stops to take Alito down. They have to know that they totally pissed off alot of their base in rolling over. Why would they do this? What did they get for doing it? National Politics is a very dirty high stakes game. They must have gotten something for caving in. The only thing I can think of that would in anyway justify such a betrayal would have been to get a green light on an impeachment. Perhaps this is what the Gang of 14 were really discussing.

[madmadmad]

27. wishful thinking.

[0rganism]

29. No deal. This was spinelessness, pure and simple.

You want impeachment? Elect a majority of REAL progressives to the house in November.
You want bush removed from office? Elect a majority of REAL progressives to the senate in November... of 2020. Maybe we'll be able to remove bre'r Jeb.

[mom cat]

30. We could have impeachment without confirming Scalito. These

midterms are going to be hot!

[Canuckistanian]

32. What was it that Lindsey Graham said?

He started talking about Shrub and the wiretap scandal out of the blue.

Was it a coded message? Give us Alito, and I'll be flexible on possible impeachment?

More tin foil?

[Atman]

35. That's bat-shit crazy

But intriguing. Thinking about stuff is aways fun!

[hvn_nbr_2]

37. Occam's Razor would seem to suggest...

You said: It makes absolutely no sense why the Dems rolled over.

Seems to me that Occam's Razor would suggest that they rolled over because they always roll over. They just keep taking turns about who rolls, but enough always roll to give the Pukes what they want.

I think the Dems' caucus room has a wheel-of-fortune with all Dem Senators's names on it. How many Dem votes do they need for this one? Spin the wheel that many times plus a few more to make sure it's not really close; whoever's name hits has to (perhaps even "gets to", to appease corporate sponsors) vote with the Pukes. Boxer and Kennedy and maybe one or two others have their names overlaid with a "spin again" icon because they didn't approve the game and won't play along.

[driver8]

39. Pass that crack pipe over this way when you are done with it...

I need a hit of optimism.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. LOL: Delusional

The only "deal" is the real deal: Many Dems calculated that voted for a filibuster would hurt them in their next election, and that's the way a Republic works. They thought their constituents were against it, and voted on that basis. Period.