Dennis Kucinich: We Need Jack Murtha for Majority Leader (HuffPost)

[deadparrot]

I support John Murtha for Majority Leader of the United States House of Representatives.

As many of you know, I was one of those who organized the effort to stop the US from going to war against Iraq. One hundred and twenty-five Democrats, nearly two-thirds of our caucus, voted against the war.

Once the war started, America drifted deeper and deeper into the morass of Iraq, with rising troop causalities, near incalculable Iraqi civilian deaths and tremendous expense for the American taxpayers. It was only when prominent Members of Congress began to reconsider their position that America had a new hope for a new direction.

Chief among those who saw the dramatically changing circumstances, and who had the courage not only to rethink Iraq, but to step forward publicly and declare his concerns, was Jack Murtha.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-dennis-kucinich/we-need-jack-murtha-for-m_b_34175.html

[mikelewis]

1. That's the wonderful thing about trust...

...it takes some of the guess work out of this whole politics thing. If Murtha's good enough for Dennis, he's good enough for me.

[upi402]

2. After reading Michael Moore's pledge tonight

Murtha is not the guy.

[MsUnderstood]

4. how do the 2 relate

Skimmed the pledge saw nothing about murtha?

[upi402]

9. Pledge line item 12, last but not least;

12. We will not tolerate politicians who are corrupt and who are bought and paid for by the rich. We will go after any elected leader who puts him or herself ahead of the people. And we promise you we will go after the corrupt politicians on our side FIRST. If we fail to do this, we need you to call us on it. Simply because we are in power does not give us the right to turn our heads the other way when our party goes astray. Please perform this important duty as the loyal opposition.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Got any evidence, or just inuendo? Cause if you got it, call the FBI. Or if you

don't, don't call them.

[upi402]

13. you're joking around, right?

you want a pissing match otherwise, I'm guessing.


do your own research

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bananas]

17. Newsmax got it WRONG, of course.

Murtha was NOT one of their "20 Most Corrupt".
Newsmax is a right-wing trash site.

[upi402]

20. CREW has him on their list

bipartisan, from what i know -clean government.
Are CREW's charges false? I can't find any more...

[bananas]

39. He is NOT on their "20 Most Corrupt" list, and Newsmax is a crap website

Why are you even using them as a source?
They are full of right-wing bullshit.
Their article is intentionally misleading, and they fooled you.

[upi402]

42. please see my other post, I never said "most corrupt" list...

Please see link and my post. He was on the "dishonorable mention" list.

I wanted something easy, but there is a PDF link after the beyondDelay post. Newsmax was not my original resource, just came up on the google first and was busy.

Anyhow, shoot the messenger there -I agree- but are the charges going to stick when the media starts up? Remember Dean and Kerry. In fact, CREW's charge may have fooled me. Please inform if so.

[upi402]

24. Well this is probably too long; beyond delay is good but not a snack

http://www.beyonddelay.org/node/96

http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/murtha.php

Rep. John Murtha (D-PA)

John Murtha is a seventeenth-term member of Congress, representing the 12th district of Pennsylvania. His ethics issues stem from abuse of his position as Ranking Member of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee to benefit clients of his brother, Robert “Kit” Murtha, a registered lobbyist.

KSA Consulting

In 2002, Kit Murtha was hired by KSA Consulting, a firm that lobbies the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee on behalf of defense contractors. Mr. Murtha joined the firm at the invitation of top KSA official Carmen Scialabba, who had worked for Rep. Murtha on the House Appropriations Committee for 27 years.

In 2004, Congress passed a $417 billion defense appropriations bill that went through Rep. Murtha’s subcommittee. The bill benefitted at least 10 companies represented by KSA and KSA directly lobbied Rep. Murtha’s office on behalf of seven of those companies, which received a total $20.8 million in earmarks.

PMA Group

Paul Magliocchetti worked with Rep. Murtha as a senior staffer on the Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Defense for 10 years. After leaving the committee, Mr. Magliocchetti founded the PMA Group, which has become one of the most prominent Washington, D.C. defense lobbying firms. In the current campaign cycle, the PMA Group and 12 of the firm’s clients rank in the top 20 contributors to Rep. Murtha, having made campaign contributions totaling $274,649. In turn, many of PMA’s clients have benefited significantly from Rep. Murtha’s earmarks. In the 2006 Defense appropriations bill, PMA clients received at least 60 earmarks, totaling $95.1 million.

House ethics rules prohibit members from taking any official actions for the prospect of personal gain for themselves or anyone else. In addition, Rule XXIII of the House Ethics Manual requires all members of the House to conduct themselves “at all times in a manner that reflects creditably on the House.” By earmarking funds for companies represented by Kit Murtha and Paul Magliocchetti, Rep. Murtha has violated House rules.



<<<more >>>

http://www.beyonddelay.org/files/Murtha.pdf

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Why not pick up the phone and turn him in? Are you an enabler? Or is this

just opportunism?

I say, let's support America's first Woman Speaker of the House of Representitives, instead of undercutting her.

What's the point of undercutting our leaders?

[upi402]

26. please respond to the link I posted before flaming

[John Q. Citizen]

33. Because your link is enuendo. If he's guity of something he should be brought to justice.

But of course he's not. So that's it. It's just an attempt to undercut our leaders by sticking the guy who Pelosi beat into the #2 slot.

Carville is out trying to undercut Dean.

Hillary totally cyically tried to undercut Kerry, by doing the Repos work for them.

I'm sick of this BS.

[upi402]

35. so how about you prove the 2002 charges "innuendo" for me

You seem to have certain knowledge that CREW does not.

[John Q. Citizen]

36. Did Murtha violate the law, in your legal opinion?

[upi402]

38. done here

[Psephos]

44. You got that backwards...what's the point of our leaders undercutting us?

This Congress was elected because of widespread voter disgust with shady practices and outright corruption. Nominating anyone for a leadership position who might taint the perception of Dem honesty is bad politics and bad faith. The majority is fragile and will go away in 700 days if we don't use political skill and maintain good faith with America.

Who on this board wouldn't be howling if Repugs had nominated someone during their majority with the same kind of record Murtha has? He's a pork addict with abominable intraparty skills. Calling the new ethics bill "total crap" at a meeting of Blue Dog Dems was stupid beyond belief. Murtha already voted against the bill this past year.

Look beyond his politics, for god's sake, and think about the shitstorm this kind of political cronyism is capable of bringing down upon us.

Peace.

[youthere]

47. I'm with you...

We spent the last 12 years living under a congress whose ethics were "questionable" at best. I think we need to set the bar high for our own party and WALK THE WALK.

[skipos]

6. What did Moore say? Link? nt

[upi402]

10. redundantarianisming

12. We will not tolerate politicians who are corrupt and who are bought and paid for by the rich. We will go after any elected leader who puts him or herself ahead of the people. And we promise you we will go after the corrupt politicians on our side FIRST. If we fail to do this, we need you to call us on it. Simply because we are in power does not give us the right to turn our heads the other way when our party goes astray. Please perform this important duty as the loyal opposition.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

[Alexander]

25. Michael Moore does not have our best interests at heart

Or were you aware of his shilling for Ralph "There's no difference between Bush and Gore" Nader back in 2000?

:crazy:

[texpatriot2004]

3. Murtha brings military experience to the table now and we need

that.

[skipos]

5. Kucinich is a DLC DINO, who gives a shit what he thinks?

Just kidding. :evilgrin:

[ThomCat]

16. I'm glad you're kidding.

Those would have been fighting words! :silly:

[helderheid]

49. LOL!!!

Thanks! That was exactly what I needed! :spray: :yourock:

[Idioteque]

7. Marty Meehan supports Murtha too...

...if one of the sponsors of Shays-Meehan thinks Murtha is ethical, that's good enough for me.

[frylock]

8. that's all i need to know..

I trust DK's judgement over just about anyone else in Congreff.

[Earth_First]

11. If a DK endorsement doesn't get you on board ...NOTHING will n/t

[Rainscents]

14. Dennis support Murtha... and so do I.

[ThomCat]

18. Have any of you heard that Murtha has a 0% rating

from NARAL and Plannned Parenthood? This was just posted in the Feminism forum. I appreciate that he's against the war, but he's got some damned scary views.

http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

I would really hate to think that we're throwing women under the wheels to put Murtha in a position of power. We MUST make sure that Roe v. Wade is protected, and we MUST make sure that women have sovereignty over their own bodies.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Have you heard that Nancy Pelosi has a 100% Naral rating? Why would

you want to put someone in the #2 position who will undercut her?

[ThomCat]

27. Very true.

We don't want his positions undercutting her more progressive ones.

But even aside from that, making him the number 2 person gives his views some legitimacy in the party and that in and of itself is scary when his votes are that hostile to some of our core issues.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Nancy wants Murtha as her backup. I say support Nancy Pelosi.

[ThomCat]

32. Does that mean that you're not the least bit concerned

about his positions and how he might use his authority?
Or that you trust Nancy Pelosi to keep him in line?
:shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Let's give her, and him a chance. If one or both screw up bad, then we will

have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

But putting road blocks in the way of our leadrship from the get go doesn't seem to be a wise way to start out.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. Murtha is a Pelosi loyalist, he will follow orders when Pelosi gives them

I'm concerned about his positions and how he will be called out by the media for flip-flopping but make no mistake, he will defend the caucus' views when Pelosi tells him to.

[babylonsister]

28. Right now it's about the war, and women are fighting, too.

Please don't confuse issues. Let's save soldiers and Iraqis. Women aren't dying from any of Murtha's positions either way.

[ThomCat]

30. I'm not confusing issues. It's not JUST about the war.

Maybe that's your only issue, but most of has juggle all the issues. He's going to be the #2 person organizing dems on ALL issues in the house. We need to take that into account.

[babylonsister]

37. OK, and you're right. But, this issue is the one that will

reverberate - the war - now. We will always question positions. And I'm very pro-choice. But Murtha made decisions for his constituency at the time, as politicians do. I'm concerned about now and the current and future implications.

[countmyvote4real]

19. Kucinich and Murtha are both great leaders on Iraq, BUT…

There is problem with Murtha’s past and present. I’m not saying that I have a personal problem with it, but it is there and will most likely be used by the opposition against us. (You know, those swift boat bastards. You don’t really think they’ve lost their appetite for smearing just because they lost both the House and the Senate? If anything, they’ll bring it on like the cornered rats that they are.)

Murtha is compromised on video, but never convicted by the age-old ABSCOM sting. His brother is also a K Street lobbyist. These are two isolated instances and not connected except that the Democratic Party is pledging like the Republicans in ’94 to root out all corruption. We see how that went.

Yes, it took twelve years and a lot of bad shit to go down (and it still took twelve years) for them to go down again. Are our ties to the perception of corruption beyond the repute of liars with a vendetta?

I hope the Democratic Party is as pure as it claims that it wants to be. Republican snakes WILL bite back with a vengeance.

[WillyT]

23. K & R !!!

:kick:

[JI7]

31. there is a reason liberals like Pelosi and Kucinich are backing Murtha

i trust Pelosi and Kucinich on this. and for anyone who has seen and heard Murtha talk about the war the past couple years you know this is very important for him and wants it to end.

[roamer65]

34. If Kucinich supports him, so do I.

[whirlygigspin]

43. welcome to the cult of spine

Just watched Murtha interview on Harball, courtesy of crooksandliars,
--he explained himself well. I like his style and think he would do a great job;
plus... all the wrong people don't like him.

So, it's Murtha for me.

Hopefully tomorrow we can say:
Goodbye triangulation, hello to leadership with spine.

(try the cool-aid James, it's democratically delicious!)

:beer:

[LittleClarkie]

45. So does this mean Dennis is against our right to choose?

:sarcasm:

[w4rma]

46. Wanted: A Real Leader - Endorsement for Rep. Jack Murtha by David Sirota of 'The Nation'

November 14, 2006
by David Sirota
…
Hoyer's reaction to Murtha's Iraq announcement was telling. He ran to the Washington Post, not to praise Murtha for his courageous leadership in shifting the debate on the most important national security issue in a generation, but instead to say Murtha's announcement "could lead to disaster." Days later, he tried to publicly humiliate Pelosi for supporting Murtha's withdrawal idea, with the Post reporting that Hoyer "told colleagues that Pelosi's recent endorsement of a speedy withdrawal combined with her claim that more than half of House Democrats support her position, could backfire on the party."

On trade, it's the same thing. Murtha represents Johnstown, Pennsylvania--the type of hardscrabble, working-class district Democrats have too often lost since President Bill Clinton joined with Wall Street to push free-trade pacts in the mid-1990s. In representing this kind of district, Murtha has opposed many of the most destructive trade agreements that sell out American workers. In the most high-profile example, he went up against Clinton by voting against the China free trade deal in 2000.

Hoyer, by contrast, voted for the China pact, and a number of other "free" trade agreements opposed by Murtha and progressive Democrats. He has parroted much of the rhetoric of the Democratic Leadership Council--the corporate front group that has relentlessly pushed Democrats to provide the crucial congressional votes necessary to pass "free" trade pacts. As Lori Wallach of Global Trade Watch said when Hoyer ran against Pelosi in a previous leadership race: "Hoyer has repositioned himself--one can only assume for political purposes -- as the DLC, business candidate."

Neither candidate, of course, is perfect. But this is far more than merely a lesser-of-two-evils choice.
…
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061127/sirota/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x246654

berni_mccoy says:
WATCH THE ABSCAM VIDEO: Murtha Displays A High Degree of Ethics
I've watched the Abscam tape. You can watch it here too: http://lonestartimes.com/2006/11/14/

I listened to every statement Murtha made.

Murtha did exactly this:
1. Discussed housing prices
2. Discussed the problems of his District
3. Told the agents that they can't give him money to get legislature drafted and that is illegal
4. Told the agents that he wants to follow the law
5. Told the agents that they are free to invest in his district and that he would be appreciative of that
6. Told the agents that they don't need to spend a damned cent on this
7. Told the agents that he could speak kindly of them for investing in their business and that would work for him politically to show he is able to get business investments for his district
8. He even told them what is legal and that they are going out of bounds
9. Any sort of investments have to be dealt with legally and politically and that he needs to know details before discussing further
10. A few investments in his district will get the attention and everything has to be above board or otherwise people go to jail.
11. The people in his district will be supportive of investing companies and will want to advertise the fact and that Murtha was helpful. It's a good thing when done properly.
12. Introducing legislation is only legal when initiated by people in his district.
13. The LEGAL and ETHICAL way for a company to have legislation drafted is by investing in the district, lobbying the people of the district to initiate the laws and then Murtha can respond.
14. He gave examples of ways that this has been done successfully and unsuccessfully in the past.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

What Murtha Didn't say:
1. He didn't take money to draft legislation
2. He didn't say he would draft legislation for investing in his district
3. He didn't guarantee the agents that they would get their legislation proposal supported by the people in his district.

Murtha was completely above board on the entire issue and educated the agents on the legal and ethical issues of lobbying.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2725397

[DemBones DemBones]

48. I trust Dennis Kucinich. If he supports Murtha,

we should, too.

[melissinha]

50. Whats with all this "trust"?

Frankly, my instinct was to trust Kucinich's endorsement out of some unexplainable need to reward Murtha for his remarkable stance on the war.

Its kind of disturbing to see so many DUers, including myself, try to grapple with some real serious ethics issues. Listen to yourselves!! Really, I understand where you are coming from you want so badly to think Murtha is this great upstanding guy and the Pelosi is going to accomplish some real ethics cleanups, I so wish that would happen. But hearning that Murtha called it "a bunch of crap" is quite worrisome.... yeah he'll back her up but that means he plans to continue with his old ways.. I just wish he'd take a pledge to stop.

But believing in Murtha for the sake of it is not the way to go. Not that its really our choice anyway, our Congressional leaders will make up their minds anyway.

I just don't know, I don't like Hoyer either, I am frankly disgusted that we/they have no better choice. I wish they'd respect this country enough and people like us who so desperately want someone to trust that we will have the best Majority Leader, and just get someone like Kucinich to give a sterling example of what a Congressional leader should be.