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We won in '06 because we won the center

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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:15 AM
Original message
We won in '06 because we won the center
This is not in any way a put down of the base--liberals and activists who also turned out and voted on November 7th. But we owe the scope of our victory in the House and Senate and other races across the country to independents. Exit polls indicate that Indies voted 60% Democratic. To win in 2008 and solidify our gains in congress we need to try and hold a large number of independents--especially if the GOP nominates somebody like McCain, who, despite his record, is popular among independents.

So the question is this, how do we pursue a strong progressive agenda with the new congress without alienating those in the middle?
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. We won because people were angry at the Bush agenda.
Not because we adopted a moderate agenda. We could have adopted a liberal campaign agenda and the results would have been exactly the same. You have provided no evidence that a progressive agenda will alienate the middle. That is speculation.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I disagree... look at the closeness of some of these races...
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:19 AM by ShaneGR
John Tester and Jim Webb won by less than 1%. You think if they'd been professing support for gun control or gay rights they'd have won in Montana in Viriginia or Montana. The answer to the question is, no.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Harold Ford ran as a conservative and lost.
Tammy Duckworth was the more moderate choice in the Democratic primary and lost in the general. Ohio elected a very liberal Senator despite being a swing state.

Montana and Virginia are not likely to be swing states in the next election in any case, so I don't believe basing national strategy on those two states is a good idea.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Ford wasn't convincing, and they CRUCIFIED Tammy
I spent most of my weekends since August working for Tammy. They flooded Hyde's district with negative advertising, just horrible, horrible stuff. She had a 5-point lead until the RCCC threw $2.5 million at her in the last month.

You have to look at each race, because they are all very different. Ford very nearly won, but a lot of people thought he was putting on his conservativism, which to an extent he was. He ran an extremely self-righteous campaign, complete with interviews in his church pews, and the GOP successfully contrasted his lifestyle to suggest he was lying.

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
39. When Tammy was attacked personally
She didn't have a compelling message to keep people on her side. That's the problem with the strategy of those who say we need to run on nothing. It sounds like the same problem with Ford. Maybe progressives who show conviction have more appeal, even to moderates, than those who run on nothing but being moderate and having a good biography.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
61. Precisely
I had my reservations about Ford all along. Sure, he is African American, speaks well and looks good on T.V., but beyond that he didn't offer anything compelling to make people vote FOR him - it was mostly people that voted AGAINST Corker. When people got down to the issues, they saw two candidates - one that was trumpeting the party line and keeping his identity and another that was trying to look "moderate", thus confusing people about what his true identity was.

It was really disappointing to be a Tennessean on Tuesday and especially Wednesday. If only we had fielded a candidate that had stood on his own rather than triangulate every position. A moderate, yet progressive candidate would have won this state hands down as things were ripe for change.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. Virginia could very well be a swing state in 08'
It's trending blue and with the closeness of this election, I anticipate it being a major player in the 2008 elections. That being said, Jim Webb is certainly not a "conservative Democrat" as many people have been suggesting - Webb stands on his own and I don't think he will be one to be labeled one way or the other.

I know all too well how Ford ran his campaign in Tennessee. It was a complete disaster for us Progressives because he ran as far to the right as possible. In the process, he didn't create enough distance between himself and Corker to make any fence-sitters sway from their traditional Republican voting ways - he simply didn't give them a reason to vote for him.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. You make good points.
I think they reinforce what I was trying to say. Sooner or later party leaders need to figure out that someone who shows conviction, runs on compelling issues, is more electable than someone who avoids issues and has no platform other than not being too liberal.
I'll be interested to see how Webb does in the Senate.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. That's the key
Webb has a great opportunity to be a voice of change for Virginia. I hope he realizes it and makes himself visible (and accountable) to the people of VA. By doing so, he will do more to help VA go Blue and in the process effect positive social change state-wide than anyone could ever imagine.

My personal perception that Webb won't be a maverick as much as he will be a positive voice that people will rely on when talking about the tough issues. He's a smart guy and with the spotlight upon him he has the opportunity to cement himself and his legacy across this county.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. Responses
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:41 AM by ShaneGR
Tammy Duckworth had no previous political experience. Ohio would have elected pretty much anyone if it didnt have an R after its name because the Bob Taft ran the state into the ground (Go Sherrod btw!). Montana and Virginia ALWAYS matter, as does every state if you want to control the Congress.

Oh, and Harold Ford, a black man, came within 3% pts of winning a statewide seat in TENNESSEE! That's not too shabby. See how close it would have been if he hadn't been moderate/conservative. I'd guess more like 10 pts.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Populism works in tennessee
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:51 AM by Radical Activist
The Republicans there understand it. It's a shame that Ford and the moderate Democrats there do not.

Duckworth's experience didn't have much to do with it. She had a lot of experienced campaign professionals helping her. She had a great biography that was trashed, just like Kerry was. What she didn't have was a compelling message beyond her personal story. That strategy isn't working.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
46. You're right!
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:59 AM by notsodumbhillbilly
Ford was anti-gay, anti-abortion, voted for the torture bill and for warrantless wiretapping.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. IMO, those votes would have made up the 3% difference
I worked for the Ford campaign and was in the thick of things all along. It was an uphill battle for several reasons, but most significantly was that he had a tendency to run to the right rather than standing on his own. Independents that had voted for Republicans in the past but were looking for a change just didn't feel that their vote was well spent on Ford because they viewed him as "Republican Lite" - that is, they didn't trust him because they felt he was just taking those positions to get votes from the right.

If he would have taken a stand on Iraq, the Patriot Act, Torture, etc. Tennesseans would have been drawn to hear his view. By taking the Republican position, he didn't compel enough of the indies to trust him with their vote.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. Agree
His votes on the torture bill and warrantless wiretapping cost him votes.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. And not Democratic votes either
It was a given that most, if not all, Democrats in this state were going to suck this one up and vote for him anyway. Where it cost him was with the unaffliated voter or indies that had typically broke Republican over the past few election cycles. With discontent for this war and the erosion of liberties in this country at an all time high, people were looking for something that truly was a "new generation of leadership" aside from being a clever marketing slogan.

Looking at the canvassing numbers I kept getting a sick feeling in my stomach when we saw the independent vote totals. We had to take 60% or better to win this thing, but the final totals were closer to 50/50. The reasons given were basically all that the two candidates just weren't offering anything new.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I believe it was Malloy who said,
"If people want a conservative, they'll vote for the republican". He was discussing democrats who ran a moderate campaign.

I heard "There's no difference between the two" (Ford and Corker) many times before the election.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Yep - it's the old "devil you know" mantra that people stick to
Ford really didn't run a moderate campaign the last month of the election - he basically abandoned the base in hopes of getting those mythical Republican swing voters - that never materialized and never will.

Hopefully we can get some people in this state that have the strength of their convictions to run for office on their ideals. While I respect Ford, he was constantly playing politics at every corner and people saw through it. Sure, he would have been a better statesman and Senator than Corker, but where it counted - in the votes on key issues - he would have been no different.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
72. Webb ran as a conservative and won the Senate for us.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. I agree we won because of unrest over the war and Bush
So how do we keep them in '08? maybe a progressive agenda will work. I don't know. I didn't say it wouldn't. I just asked how do we keep them in '08 and build to our success. My question was can we push a progressive agenda and hold the middle?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. I Don't Know What A Progressive Agenda Is...
But I do know the exit polls indicated that the electorate was 21% liberal, 45% moderate, and 32% conservatives.

It seems to me the party that wins the moderates wins the elections.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. that number doesn't mean much.
Everyone likes to think of themselves as moderate, even if they hold liberal positions on the issues, because the world liberal has been trashed so much without being defended.
Its pretty simple. You pick the liberal positions on issue that have majority support and promote the hell out of them. That will win people over to our side and get something accomplished. Moderate voters will also respect the party much more if we do that as opposed to speaking meekly about half-measures that excite no one. For example, a far-reaching and dramatic proposal to help the environment will gain more attention and win us more support than a weak compromise measure that does little, even if we have to combat strong opposition from conservatives.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Independant doesn't necessarily mean "moderate"
If independants agree with the Democratic agenda, then we can move full steam ahead with no worries.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Good point.
I think there are very progressive issues that appeal to independents if we finally use them as wedge issues. Most of them are issues that don't appeal to corporate donors.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. We won the independents, not the center
and we won because we had what they wanted and the GOP didn't.

There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and squashed animals.

:headbang:
rocknation
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. Then Why Does 45% Of The Electorate Define Themselves As Moderate?
They are a plurality and a big one.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. Because "moderate" is a feel good word that not many want to reject
Find out what they actually think "moderate" means. Betcha some of the things they think are moderate, the center-right would call uber-liberal.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. A majority of the public hold liberal positions on issues.
You are absolutely correct. The Democrats could make gains by letting people know about the liberal positions they stand for that a majority agree with, and force the Republicans to defend their unpopular views. That can't happen when everyone is trying to play it safe and moderate.
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SwingVoter2006 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Can you be specific?
What uniquely liberal issues have broad traction?

I am asking as a swinging moderate.

No, this is not a jab. It's a serious question. I am curious, because to my way of thinking when an issue has broad enough traction it ceases to be defined in liberal or conservative terms, and simply becomes an American issue.

The national debt, for one thing; over which many grassroots cons and libs seem both pissed all to hell.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. 1st, the environment
Democrats do a horrible job of pointing out how much the Republicans sacrifice the public interest for the interests of corporate donors on this issue. It is an issue where the large majority of the public is on our side, but we don't take advantage of it.

Trade. Even middle class professionals are seeing their jobs shipped away now. I think we would have won Ohio in '04 had Kerry done a better job talking about this issue and held a stronger position.

Consumer protection, meat inspection. Most of these are issues where the public agrees but most politicians aren't vocal because they get a lot of corporate campaign cash to do nothing.
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SwingVoter2006 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. Moderate = not beholden to the extremes of the spectrum!
Moderate also means being able to think beyond the liberal and conservative "boxes" both parties tend to operate within. Sometimes a good solution incorporates both liberal and conservative components. This drives hard-liners batty because they detest compromise or giving ground on ideas. They want it ALL THEIR WAY or NO WAY AT ALL.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
73. The Independents are the center or are orthogonal (Libertarian)
Too much one dimensional (linear) blinders on polititicians.

Politics is multi-dimensional, planar at the very least.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. That's true but by and large I think many indepenents are
in the center, perhaps socially liberal and economically conservative.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. Most independants are Libertarians?
You'll have to back that up with evidence.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. A third of Evangelicals voted Dem. They aren't center n/t
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Dean said that on Daily Show. Would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the poll that info
came from.

Partly so I could post that info elsewheres and have solid proof to back me up.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. The Electorate Is 21% Liberal 35% Conservative And 42% Moderate
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:28 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
I think I can find the numbers if you want...

It's obvious that you can't win an election with just your base...


That was the Rove model and it's in tatters...
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. I'm at work and can't really get involved in a big search now, but...
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 12:05 PM by LoZoccolo
...the Pew Research Center has done a lot of work polling in this area, and have reports on religion and political affiliation which track the trend from the late eighties until now. I've been using them since at least 2004 to establish that the evangelical=Republican meme is just Republican propaganda they use to their own benefit (which, unfortunately, a lot of us are all too eager to perpetuate for them).
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. And will we keep them in '08? nobody's is saying we shouldn't
push a progressive agenda if you read the Original post it just asks if we can be progressive and expect to keep the centrists and independents who voted for us this year in '08 when George W. Bush will probably not be as big an issue and where Iraq will (I think and hope) be somewhat defused.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. 71%-24%-4%
That's the breakdown from the cook report. 71% voted Republican-24% Dem- 4% independent.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
51. That isn't up much from past years.
The canard is the idea that they were all or mostly Republicans at some time; they never were. It was more even in the late eighties, but it's Republicans who choose to spread that myth to their benefit (and us who help them).
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. There is no "center." So how do we pursue a strong progressive agenda...
...without alienating "swing voters" as they're more aptly called? Read the new manual for Progressives from http://www.RockridgeInstitute.org/ThinkingPoints . If you want to cut right to that subject, download the PDF of Chapter 2.

NGU.


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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. ok, good points, not the center but swing voters.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
74. Saying "there is no center" is Rovian doom-think.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. I agree with Atrios - I just don't know what that *means*....
... even though people like to repeat it over and over....

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_11_05_atrios_archive.ht...
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. See post #5. Lakoff says we should speak to the so-called "center"...
...the same way we speak to our base.

NGU.


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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. With a populist message
We didn't win bashing gays or throwing women under the bus, for the most part. We stood up for minimum wage, college, and health care for all. We stood against the Iraq war. We didn't take up muddled centrism, we talked TO the center and they trusted us. Big difference. This is not a mandate for conservativism or leftists. America voted for progress, pure and simple.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Indeed and what is so radical about that?
"We stood up for minimum wage, college, and health care for all. We stood against the Iraq war. "

That is the progressive agenda that our DLC/New Dem Corporate Creeps want to take off the menu. It is the damn center!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Who said it was?
I already said the left ought to claim the issues that won this election. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any grown-ups on the left who can do that. All they're doing so far is screaming impeachment. Claim the win and justify it, or Rahm will, that's the way it works. The DC Democrats don't get what the people are saying and why they voted for people like Tester and Webb, they're totally misreading this election. They rejected Ford and that says it all.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. I think I agree with you here.
Impeachment is premature. First we have to have investigations.

Impeachment can only follow from investigations that actually uncover solid evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors. Those investigations should of course be started and should take place alongside a populist progressive policy agenda that puts what our party really stands for front and center with the american people.

Let them veto and filibuster one popular piece of legislation after another and we will see just who controls Congress and the White House in 08.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. Yes
And how something is said is as important as what is said. Phased withdrawal, disengagement - those words worked when 'out now' didn't. The center voted Dem, not because of centrist policies but because people like Pelosi, Clark, Edwards, Kerry and Kennedy knew HOW to talk to the center. That's the real lesson from this election. Investigations, not impeachment. Another example. People want solutions and honesty. If we do this right, we'll have control for 50 years and that can only be good for the country and the world.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. If it was indeed the center then why did Chafee lose?
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:26 AM by gatorboy
He was as centered as you can get. Not to mention not a single left of center Dem lost a seat.

This is a Repug talking point used to sooth their wounds. Dems won. Liberals won. 'Nuff said.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. But RI is the most democratic state in the country and Bush had
a 23% approval rating. Chafee went down because of Bush. Do you actually think that we won only with Democratic votes nationally? The exit polls demonstrate that while we did well with our base the sweep of the victory was due to Independents.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
76. I think you're just not giving the Dem campaign enough credit is all.
Look at Dean's 50 State strategy. Even Jon Stewart thought he was crazy. But he put the word out and worked hard. Pushing in every state is something we should've done a long time ago because it showed potential Democrats in those areas that we won't stick to the safe states.

Independents, I don't think, are necessarily moderates. Mostly they're made up of individuals that generally could care less about any politics either way. But it's the 50 State Strategy the worked most successfully with that group. Because in the Red States there was a Dem voice the independents never heard. With Dean's plan, we could finally reach them.
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Actionman Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. we won because people weren't as scared...
if we had won for the center Harold Ford would have won... "Harold call me" was to scary for some. We have to do what the campaigned on (center) to stay in power "The Will of The People"
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
17. expose the credit card bill
If dems spend time going through the credit card bills that the republicans have run up over the
past 6 years, line by line, demanding cuts in extravagance and wars of adventure, the embarassed
fools will stay the course in to their graves, all while the public rage pounds them out at the
ballot box.

We have nothing to lose by being tight assed fiscal conservatives. They are painfully exposed to
scrutiny in this regard, and from the expenses, we can trace all the crimes.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. Exactly. You win if your message appeals to both the center and the left
FDR did that even though he probably ends up being one of the most leftist presidents in the last 60 years as far as economic issues go.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. We were the liberals AND the conservatives AND the libertarians
against the NeoCons.

IMO, the Republican party was not truly the conservative party any more and they had to land somewhere.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. We won because we were the pretty blond in the room...
I posted about this strategy over a year ago. All we had to do was shut up and let them fall apart. We did it; they did it, and we won. Because their strategy of silencing us and making sure we got zero credit for anything backfired. They made it so clear that Washington was a one party town that when the fit hit the shan, we were standing in the clear. Not only did we not get any credit for what was happening, we didn't get the blame, either.

Welcome back to checks and balances, folks.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. In effect they defeated themselves
that makes a certain amount of sense, but we also presented several candidates who were attractive alternatives.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. It was a repudiation of the republican party by the center
that was becoming wise about Iraq and some of the lies surrounding it. We didn't win because we were getting more close to republican or "conservative" ideology. That's my opnion and I'm sure many will disagree.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. That's only one factor in our winning, so the statement is false.
We won because ALL of us contributed. The moderates deserve no more or less credit than the leftiest of the left or the crossover-voting republicans that got us here. Don't help the segregationists in our party to claim credit at our expense.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
38. I agree.
We pursue our agenda by tackling the liberal parts of our agenda that moderates agree with like health care reform and getting out of Iraq
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
40. Tell that to Harold Ford. Progressives won the day. Centerists ARE radical.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Exactly
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:57 AM by depakid
And this kind of think will lose the next election for the Dems if they keep buying into the Republican coddling stand for nothing crap. That's EXACTLY what got them into the 12 year long mess in the first place.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
41. We won because Dean exploited the implosion of the GOP.
The main challange in the next 2 years is to hold on to the libertarian and socially coservative left-wing types that bolted the GOP while trying to enact a progressive agenda.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Ok--I agree.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
67. Dean is the new Rove
A more decent version, that is. Hey their names even start with the party letters.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
49. ModerateProgressive could be a non-issue for now if we just
work on reversing everything that was lost to us in the last six years and work on the debt. Moderate-Progressive debates and fights could be postponed. We just need to correct our direction. No more dark ages.

However, if there is a Moderate=Progressive difference over issues like the losing our privacy, our social security, our vote - the way we deal with vets, elders, children, uninsured - then we're in trouble.
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SwingVoter2006 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thanks, WI_DEM!
Yes, Dems did win the center. Yes, largely due to moderates, centrists, and "indies" of all stripes, most of whom came together on a few core issues for 2006: Iraq, the debt, government corruptuon, and runaway spending.

My best suggestion, if you want to keep indies and other folk like me happy, is to take care of just these same core issues. Significant progress on debt reduction, and bringing Iraq to a close would be great for starters. I keep seeing talk like impeachment is the #1 item on the agenda. Or that the first thing we need to do is nationalize healthcare. These are pet projects of the committed Left and not necessarily on the radar for many indies. Hell, some of us don't want either of these things right now.

I just want a party in power which can attend to the huge, overriding issues that now burden EVERY AMERICAN regardless of political persuasion, economic factors, race or gender or sexual factors, etc. If the Dems can prove themselves to be effective war-enders, debt-reducers, and get spending under control, I think many of us will be quite happy to keep pulling the Dem lever.

The danger, as with the Republicans, is in assuming any sort of "mandate" beyond these basic issues. I'm not a house bitch for any political party. This is why I have never registered as an (R) or a (D) because there are times I want to tell them both to go to Hell.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Ending the war in Iraq is certainly of vital importance....
But, if that drain on the budget can be stopped, the financial situation will improve. Certainly the debt that idiotic Bushistas saddled us with should be reduced. There should still be some money for social programs. What's your suggestion for improving health care? The costs are burden for far too many. What about education? The infrastructure? The environment?

Do you agree that Bush's tax cuts should end? Certainly the Estate Tax is a sane idea.

In short, aside from the military-industrial complex--what do you define as "runaway spending"?



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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. IA I would say the only mandate is to do things like
overturn all the fascist-type stuff (MCA, Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping) - and get out of Iraq, cut it with the creation of a right-wing police state in the name of terra, and do realistic things about terra - practical things and at most find OBL. If all that is done then we are in a much better position to convince that center of some of the more progressive issues.

As a side benefit, it would give Rush Jerkbaugh nothing to say. But start pursuing gay marriage, for example (not that I don't sympathize personally) and Rushbo, etc. and the corporate media chorus will start right up.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
57. By creating and supporting legislation
that appeals to jobs, justice, economic fairness, the Rule of Law and that lifts the most people to a better life.

How else?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
59. The center is one reason.
But it is not the only reason.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
64. Yes, WE won the Center.
Enough of them woke up to begin using their brains. Good for them!

It would be useful if moderates--especially the new ones at DU--would let us know their specific concerns.
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DemCam Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. I agree
Would love to hear from the independents and voters who switched to Dem this time aroundd
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
75. No, the repukes LOST the center; we can't count on that happening
during every election. fact is, the dems haven't done jack for either the center or their base in a long time. as we all know, more people agree with dems on an issue by issue basis, it's just that repukes have done such a good job at demonizing the label 'liberal' that dems seem to feel the need to abandon liberal positions instead of standing and making the case for them. i think that it has been put best by saying that the center IS liberal, and dems need to start doing a better job of delivering for the center and the left.
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not_a_robot Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
77. The only people
The only people I know that call themselves liberal actually understand what the word means. I've asked friends that say they are not liberal, if they can make decisions outside dogma and propaganda, reject destructive indoctrination and reject authoritarian mentality, if they believe in the freedom of the individual, and if they believe in equality under the law. I sometimes have to inform them that that is much of what makes a person liberal. A lot of people really have accepted the definition certain dishonest political party and it's sociopathic backers defines it as.
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