What's with these Murtha votes?

[Vox Acerbus]

Looked up Murtha's voting record after hearing he's throwing his hat in the ring to be the Majority Leader... With this voting record, would he really be on board with Pelosi's 100 hour plan?

http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

According to this link, Murtha:


Voted NO on adopting the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. (Oct 2004)

...

Supports a Constitutional Amendment for school prayer. (May 1997)

...

Voted YES on passage of the Bush Administration national energy policy. (Jun 2004)

...

Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)


Is this really the guy who can help implement Pelosi's 100 hour plan?

[Horse with no Name]

1. Yes he is.

He is more moderate than I like, but he is a good man.

[AlCzervik]

2. he's a conservative democrat, thats not news. He's also anti-choice.

[Dhalgren]

3. So are a lot of Democrats now. That was the "deal" that was struck

to get back the House and Senate...

[AlCzervik]

6. yup, i looked up Murthas record about a year ago when everyone was

hoping he'd run for speaker---no thanks.

[Dhalgren]

11. For me, the first priority should be ending the occupation of Iraq.

Murtha seems to be the foremost proponent of withdrawing troops immediately and for NOT sending any more over. For that, and that alone, I would support his becoming ML. We can't mend our country at home and get onto a more progressive track while we are murdering people in Iraq (or any place else). We have to get ourselves right with the rest of the planet first...

[NaturalHigh]

7. A lot of us Democrats are conservative...

I would hope the party can find a way to respect that.

[AlCzervik]

17. understood, i don't know any democrat that doesn't respect Murtha

there are democrats of all stripes and they should all be heard, everybody brings something to the party.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. And votes with the NRA almost 100% of the time

[WI_DEM]

4. I hear that he and Pelosi have a better relationship than she and

Hoyer. I don't know if that means a thing or not.

[Justitia]

8. Yes, it means we would have a very efficiently run House - these 2 are a team. -eom

[slaveplanet]

10. earmarks and good ole

Murthonian effeciency:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20910FF3F540C718CDDA90994DE404482

Trading Votes for Pork Across the House Aisle
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 — For more than a decade, Representative John P. Murtha of Pennsylvania has operated a political trading post in a back corner of the House of Representatives.

A gang of about two dozen Democrats mill around his seat. A procession of others walk back to request pet spending projects, known as earmarks. And Republicans come by, asking him to enlist some of those Democrats to join them on close votes. “Whether they get what they want in the bill or they get the votes they are looking for, nobody ever leaves completely disappointed,” said Representative Paul E. Kanjorski, a Pennsylvania Democrat often found in what is known as the Murtha corner.

Outside Washington, Mr. Murtha, a Vietnam veteran and longtime hawk, may be best known for his break with the president over the Iraq war last fall. But inside the Capitol, he is best known for turning earmarks into power. As the top Democrat on the House military spending subcommittee, he often delivers Democratic votes to Republican leaders in a tacit exchange for earmarks for himself and his allies.

In the last year, Democratic and Republican floor watchers say, Mr. Murtha has helped Republicans round up enough Democratic votes to narrowly block a host of Democratic proposals: to investigate federal contracting fraud in Iraq, to reform lobbying laws, to increase financing for flood control, to add $150 million for veterans’ health care and job training, and to exempt middle-class families from the alternative minimum tax.


What's not to like? :shrug:

[Justitia]

12. And you'd rather have Steny Hoyer? What is the alternative? Do you understand this is inside

baseball we are talking about?

About the sheer ability of making the House function internally?

Educate yourself on the alternative (Steny Hoyer) and come back when you have a clue.

[Vox Acerbus]

13. Aren't there 200-something alternatives?

Why does it have to be between bad and worse? What about the other Democratic members of congress?

[Justitia]

16. NO. Once again, it's "inside baseball", not Democratic policy. Learn about the dynamics between

the Speaker position and the Majority Leader position, the function of each, how they are elected, etc, etc, if arcane poltical mechanisms interest you.

Those who understand how this all works have no problem w/Pelosi & Murtha in this function and welcome the dynamic. And no, this relationship is NOT available to all members of the House - not by a long shot.

[slaveplanet]

20. don't you

Patronize me

Educate yourself on the alternative (Steny Hoyer) and come back when you have a clue

Did I once say I was for that k-street, HAVA, Abramhoff toadie, Hoyer.

No, I rechecked, No mention of him.

This thread is about Murtha.

And I have a damn good clue about what's going on here...

[Justitia]

21. If you fully understand how these positions work, then why are you taking this tack???

That tells me you do not understand. Yet, you strew garbage which becomes fodder for others.

It also tells me that you do not understand THE ALTERNATIVE, which is Steny Hoyer.

What pisses me off is when you conflate two issues which are completely unrelated in order to defame someone you have a policy issue with. Fine, have a policy issue w/Murtha and go over his earmarks with a fine tooth comb if you like.

Explain to me how that affects the dynamic between the Speaker and her floor agent and how the alternative would be an improvement in administratively running the House.

I await your detailed analysis.

[slaveplanet]

23. I'm anti corruption

I don't take to kindly to people who block investigations to uncover it, nor their little defense agents running around to cover for it. I'm just funny that way.

We are being set up with a false choice that will be used against the democrats down the road, excuse the F out of me for pointing it out.

and it's not garbage when he admits to it, perhaps you should take up your issues with the NYT.

[Justitia]

24. How do any of your assertions have anything to do w/the relationship between Speaker & Majority

Leader? And how would that relationship be enhanced with the alternative, Steny Hoyer?

What the hell is "a false choice"?

And BTW - you have a hell of a long way to go in explaining your "corruption" smear of Democrat Murtha, but that is not germane to this discussion, and unlike you, I'm not muddying the waters with such bullshit.

[slaveplanet]

25. Pelosi is Murtha's

Pet project.

If he says no or only limited corruption investigations...Then he'll have a lot of influence to make that be. And by his accounts of past actions, that is where the road is pointing.

NYT again-

Mr. Murtha has used his influence in the caucus to place friends in strategic positions on appropriations committees and other House panels. Representative Nancy Pelosi, a California liberal who is the current Democratic leader, is a close Murtha ally. He put her on the appropriations committee early in her career and managed her campaign to be leader.

His friends say Mr. Murtha often guides their votes, especially on defense matters. “He is sort of like the general and we are the lieutenants,” Mr. Doyle said.

And maybe "Choice" is the wrong term...It's more like false offerings.

[Justitia]

26. Firstly, The Majority Leader is the floor agent of The Speaker. He works for her.

This is an administrative function and has ZERO to do with "investigations" of anything, but everything to do with advancing her legislative agenda.

So, completely divorce those two issues in your mind.

The Democratic caucus is another matter, and now we are getting back around to policy, but still nothing to do with the dynamic between Speaker & Majority Leader or "investigations".

And on that other matter, I'm really trying to be patient with you, but when you start throwing around the word "corruption" in connection with a Democrat, using earmarks as your proof, you have really wandered off the reservation and ignorance is a dangerous ravine you are stumbling into.

So, while I don't mind taking this time to go over how all this works, I will not let your "corruption" smears of a Democrat go unchecked due to simple ignorance. I would never allow it from a Republican, I certainly wouldn't tolerate it from someone claiming to be of my own party.

Corruption accusations are a very serious business and one I don't take lightly. You may want to re-think your usage of the terms after you learn about house positions, caucuses, earmarks and investigations.

[jwirr]

18. Since the pugs had a clear majority in Congress why did he have

to round up votes to help them block Democrat moves?

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Yes, he would, IMO

He ran her campaigns for Leader and corralled conservatives to vote for the oh-so-liberal Nancy Pelosi against Hoyer. He has stood beside and behind her all the way. He also has been a tight advisor in matters dealing with the troops.

His individual votes are a far different matter than Majority Leader performance.

[American Jesus]

9. While you're looking things up

See if you can find the speech Steny Whore gave at some AIPAC conference in either 2003 or 2004.

It will turn your stomach.

[Vox Acerbus]

14. I'm not fond of him either...

[bowens43]

15. Murtha is a Conservative.

He always has been. You need to stop thinking that all Democrats agree on every issue. We don't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I Am Amazed At The Naievete Or Political Virginity On This Board

There are many moderate to conservative Democrats in the House...Even in the Senate...

No way could the Dems become a majority party without them...

That's why impeachment will go nowhere...



No, I'm not a conservative Democrat but I'm not naive either...

[Vox Acerbus]

22. No need to talk down to me... I'm not naieve...

I'm just asking, is this the best we can do?

I know that there are many anti-choicers and other conservatives who consider themselves Democrats. I don't believe at all that we all have to be liberal.

And Justitia, before you have another freakout and want to belittle me again about Hoyer, I'm not saying I would prefer him either.

My point is, I simply don't believe these are the only two options. I just don't buy it. And if we end up with either, I will be disappointed in the party.

[Boo Boo]

27. You forgot his zero percent NARAL rating. /nt

[Vox Acerbus]

28. I didn't forget it... I just didn't include it for one reason...

Since Pelosi's 100h plan doesn't include abortion rights (I don't think it does, at least) I tried to stick mostly with things that I thought would impede her progress on that plan.

Don't even get me started on the 0% NARAL rating. Ugh.

[Boo Boo]

32. Ah... makes sense.

You're right that his NARAL rating won't interfere with the 100h plan. It's just something that sticks in my craw these days. I see so much adulation of Murtha from people (Hamsher, Huffington, et al) who excoriated Lieberman (not a fan) for his stance on Choice. It's so frickin' hypocritical. Murtha has at least as conservative a voting record as Lieberman, a zero percent rating from NARAL, and they both voted for the IWR. What's the difference?

The difference is that Murtha eventually came out against the war. Good for him. But he still displayed rotten judgment voting for it in the first place, and he only came out against it when his constituents turned against it and the Generals he's close to started telling him, "We've got to get the fuck out of Iraq!," and, "The Army is being broken!"

Whatever. I trust Pelosi's leadership and think that she should have the leadership team that she wants. If she wants Murtha then I support that. OTOH, I'm not going to lobby for the guy. I just don't share the irrational attachment to Murtha that has sprung up within the "Netroots." I don't think he should be forced down Pelosi's throat based on the war issue. She obviously has never supported the war.

I see one pro-Murtha argument: he is very effective speaking out against Bush's Iraq policy, because he's not susceptible to the same sorts of character assassination that Pelosi would be. In that sense he is a good adjunct to Pelosi. But that's it. As far as I can see that's all there is. If being Majority Leader gives him a more effective platform to put the heat on Bush, then that's great---but not at the expense of Pelosi's leadership of the caucus.

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. Like many incoming and current Democrats in Congress, he is not

a liberal.

Many DUers have fallen in love with him because of his outspokenness in opposing Bush on the war despite the fact that his voting record is to the right of Senator Lieberman.

[wisteria]

31. He is trying to make sure our new majority statuses and power don't get in the

way of doing what is right by our soldiers and getting us out of the war. Somehow, I am getting the idea that our leaders are quickly forgetting why we really won the confidence of the public and it had nothing to do with cozying up to lobbyist and corporations.