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Kerry stepped on his own dick, as per usual.

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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:26 AM
Original message
Kerry stepped on his own dick, as per usual.
He's a genius at unintentionally providing Rove with talking points--I swear to God, I've never seen anything quite like it. But his response was great. Call it a wash and let's move on.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. The talking heads are influencing you in a negative way.
Turn it off and read!
Kerry did no such thing. Why did it take the media whores 24 hours to call him on his comment if it was so bad? Because they got their marching orders from the war machine.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Looks like the OP stepped on his own
...using the rovian spin here to try and influence opinions.

OP's like this are nothing more than an extension of the war machine. People ought to be embarassed to post such tripe.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. I just watched it again on You Tube.
"You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don’t you get stuck in Iraq.”

It certainly appears to me that yes, he stepped on his own dick. Again. It was a stupid thing to say--right up there with "I voted for it before I voted against it"--and he picked a bad time to say it. We can try to explain what he really meant 'til we're blue in the face, and obviously his many supporters here have already embarked on yet another damage control campaign. I have some sympathy for Kerry, and obviously I don't believe it was his intention to denigrate the troops in Iraq. Still, it was a pretty goddamned stupid thing to say. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here that Kerry's not exactly a genius at speaking extemporaneously.

But as I said in the OP, his response to Tony Snow was terrific. It's a wash.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. And you continue to step on it
I have some sympathy for Kerry, and obviously I don't believe it was his intention to denigrate the troops in Iraq. Still, it was a pretty goddamned stupid thing to say.

Some sympathy? My, aren't you a great Dem?

If you don't believe he meant it the way rove spun it, then say that and quit stepping on your's.

Again you say Kerry said something stupid. That's pure rove - coming through loud and clear.

Posts like your's make me want to puke.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Whatever. Puke away.
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 12:31 PM by smoogatz
Look, if the guy didn't mean to say what it sounded like he said, but it still sounded like he said the troops got stuck in Iraq because they're uneducated, which it did, then he said something stupid. He didn't mean to say it, I'm sure--but he did say it, and it strikes me as ridiculous and even delusional to pretend he didn't. Nobody wanted Kerry to win in '04 more than my wife and I did; we gave hundreds of dollars to his campaign, we volunteered hours and hours of our very limited free time for various events, house-parties, fundraisers and so forth, including canvassing door-to-door in the cold and rain. Okay? Just so you know where to shove your "aren't you a great Dem" bullshit. I'm a thoroughly loyal and committed Democrat, but I am no longer a Kerry supporter exactly because of his problem with tassel-loafer-in-mouth disease. It's chronic, it's deadly, and I wish he would just shut the fuck up if he can't stop embarrassing himself and the party in public.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. It must be hurting pretty awful by now!
Again, you are quoted:
It's chronic, it's deadly, and I wish he would just shut the fuck up if he can't stop embarrassing himself and the party in public.

Following the rovian spin is what has you goose stepping into oblivion. It is chronic and it is deadly to continue to use the rovian spin to express your displeasure with Kerry.

If you can't refrain from embarassing the party in public, it is your problem, not Kerry's.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Once again, the Church of Kerryism holds that Kerry Can Do No Wrong.
The great, infallible Kerry has spoken. And no, he did NOT say "I voted for it before I voted against it." That's a lie promulgated by the RW media, and I don't care if you think you heard it with your own ears. Cripers. Better put your sneakers on, "BeFree." The mother ship's waiting.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Bull shit
You can get away with slandering Kerry here, as you have done.

But it doesn't mean I will sit back and let you do it without comment. You have, IMO, mouthed the rove spin over and over again.

And what is this latest BS you have mouthed? Something about a "mother ship"? WTF?
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Kerry says sorry for "botched joke"
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 01:06 PM by smoogatz
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic Sen. John Kerry apologized on Wednesday for a "botched joke" that had drawn fire from President George W. Bush and dominated debate in the last days of a bitter fight for control of Congress.

Kerry said his remarks about Iraq troops to a college crowd in California were aimed at Bush, not the military, and canceled campaign appearances on behalf of Democratic candidates to avoid becoming a bigger distraction.

Read it and weep, BeFree:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc

Hmm, sounds like he's admitting he said something stupid, and he's going to shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing the party in public. But wait--he's infallible! Dammit--my head's going... to... explode...!!!

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. That's fine
But you said he stepped on his own, a very derisive and damaging statement. I call it slander. Had your post said, simply, as does this link you provided, that Kerry apologized for joking about bush being a poor student and botching the joke, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

As it is, you got swept away with the rovian spin and went overboard with your comment. Time for you to apologize, eh?
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. For God's sake, BeFree--
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 01:11 PM by smoogatz
The man just admitted to having "misspoken"--i.e., he pretty much said he stepped on his own dick. You want me to apologize for having pointed out that he stepped on his own dick ten minutes before he admits to doing so? Apologize for what? Being right? Kerry admits that he fucked up--why can't you? In fact, I think you owe me an apology, for impugning both my reasoning and my loyalty. Any time now.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Pretty much said?
Well, sport, I pretty much say you stepped on your own. See how it goes? Round and round. You try to build yourself up by using terminology that is as derisive as possible to explain something so trivial. And in doing so repeat the rovian spin.

But if it makes you happy, and in the interst of Dem unity, I apologize for almost calling you a rovian plant.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Thanks for the qualified and reluctant apology.
It must suck to have to defend the guy, guns blazing, and then have him yank the rug out from under you by apologizing five minutes later. To reply specifically: where I come from, "stepping on your own dick" is hardly as derisive as it's possible to be. It contains the implication, in fact, that the person in question has an extraordinarily long penis, but that it has, in one instance, at least, gotten in the way. If I really want to be derisive, I can unleash a pretty impressive stream of invective. Apparently you haven't read my rant on Repiglican hate tactics (it's in my journal--I recommend it highly).
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #68
84. No, It doesn't suck to defend him
What sucks is that I have to do it here. With you. With someone who says they are a good Dem. That is what sucks.

I used to respect your name, as far as I can recall, but that is over. Your attack on Kerry tells me all I need to know about you, and nothing short of an on your knees apology to Mr. Kerry would get me to change my mind.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
88. Every time we bash a Dem, Frist kills a kitten
Please, won't someone think of the kittens??

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. Et tu, smoogatz?
Get Off Of Kerry's Dick!
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. Turn on your TV and see how this played out to the average
American. It really did not help us.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. That's the point and has been for 6 years. They are 'corporate'
media whores and got their marching orders. Tweety said as much yesterday when he mentioned how many rethug press releases he got about this.
The fact that they're 'on message' to the exclusion of all else proves that it's working. Kerry tries to direct the conversation to the abysmal performance by this admin regarding Iraq, and the media spin drowns him out.
Just because they are trying to dumb us down again doesn't mean it's working, at least not with me.
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. Of course not with you...
Or anyone else who spends their time logging into a place called DEMOCRATICunderground. That's not the point. The point is that what he said DID play out that way because he wasn't clear. He knows better than most that the 'corporate media' isn't going to give him a pass when he fucks up.

And now it is being played all over the country in 30 second news spots and being picked up by the AVERAGE american (not you, and not me) as being a dis to the troops. It wasn't Kerry's intention, but it was Kerry's consequence.

Perception IS reality. People perceive this to be an attack on the troops and so unfortunately that is their reality.
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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. I consider myself to be pretty impartial
I haven't been listening to what the "talking heads" say, I just listened to the comments on their own, and Kerry made a mistake. Plain and simple.

I read today about what he was supposed to say (instead of improvising like he did), and it made sense. If that is what he was trying to say, he completely screwed it up. His comments make it sound as if he was disparaging the troops. Now, do I think he really believes that? No. Do I think he just misspoke and it came out awfully wrong? Yes.

Should he apologize? Probably. Because what he said, I don't think he really thinks inside. He just tried to do that part of his speech "off-the-cuff," and ended up screwing it up and saying something he didn't mean.

It's very unfortunate that he did this, because the momentum was completely with the Democrats, and now he does this, even if it is a mistake. And now we have to hear about it from now, until the next big screw-up from either party. And that's sad.

So again, I doubt he meant what he actually said, and therefore he probably should apologize for misspeaking, and then possibly restate the point he meant to convey. So it's not bowing into Republican demands, that's stupid, it has nothing to do with them. It's about apologizing for a mistake he make when he went away from his prepared speech, that came off very badly.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. rover and the pack pounce on anything they can twist
to their own advantage. its not kerrys fault. the newsmedia has to be complicit for it to advance.

like deans scream.

they all know the truth, or could if they spent a few seconds asking questions, but they are eager to go along with the propaganda.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. The analogy to Dean's scream isn't entirely valid.
That was a moment that was intentionally distorted by media figures who were out to discredit Dean. Kerry said what he said, and the inference--that the U.S. troops in Iraq are there because they didn't do well in school--is obvious.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
66. the inference was a confusion not a reality.
the media apparently already knew what kerry was going to say and developed sudden amnesia when rove snapped his fingers.

the dean analogy is apt. the media knows they are perpetuating a lie and yet they do it anyway.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. With Any Luck, All Discussion of Kerry 2008 Is OVER!
The man is a walking faux pas. It's not his fault, and it's not endearing to the Democrats, like Dubya's dyslexia seems to be top the GOP.

How desperately this party needs a Rove-like figure to keep the feeble-mouthed in line and on message!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Kerry is just too smart
He says complex things to a public that shrinks from complexity. Clinton was a genius at speaking simply but acting with nuance (even though I disagree with much that he did). Our future candidates should take a cue from him.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. So we castigate a man because he's smart? Sounds defeatist to me. nt
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. "Castigate"?
I don't know where you got that--I seem to have walked into another flamewar in progress.

My comment is: he needs to simplify his words and ideas instead of trying to deliver a dissertation in every speech. It is just a remark about style--I don't think anything is substantially wrong with him as a leader.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. You said Kerry is too smart and to me you sounded like that was
a bad thing. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant. I thought his rebuttal was not hard to understand at all, and I surely don't want him to sink to the level of communicating that we are tortured with by the current pos in charge.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
76. Unfortunately, we live in a country where
the public needs its information pre-chewed. As a college instructor I'm very aware that even the more educated often need things spelled out for them in monosyllables.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. Kerry shouldn't even try to make cutesy jokes.
Intelligent people, who also happen to be serious about issues and life, usually have a hard time pulling off a 'good one'. Dubya has no problem letting crappy one liners fall out of his empty head. His whole life has been one big joke.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Name the Democrat who is immune to RW creating a lie, editting or clipping
their remarks over any span of time? And just remember who made the FEWEST gaffes in 2003 and 2004 - it was Kerry who made the fewest gaffes in the primary AND The general. Bush made HUNDREDS of gaffes to Kerry's few.

The difference is that media wouldn't ALLOW any exploitation of a Bush gaffe while they allowed GOPs to CREATE a lie over Kerry's less than minor gaffes.

And it would happen to ANY Dem who sticks their neck out.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. Gore and Dean are amazing men
who continue to rise in spite of the fascistmediawhore spinning cycle against them. Kerry is too.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
73. Yep. It was Dems who did Dean in. nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, it would never happen to Churchill if he opposed Bush - WH would NEVER
create a lie or clip and chop his words. Or Jesus. Or Lincoln.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. or King, or Roosevelt, or Truman . . .
:eyes:
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. I agree. And now sitting out this last campaigning run brings his 08 pre-run
to a halt.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is just another opportunistic post!
This crap will have no impact!
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stowaway Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. He said something stupid...
he should say he's sorry and let's move on.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. No! I've heard a lot of people,
including Republicans acknowledge that they understood what he said, not meant, said!

So your outrage is misguided!
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ImNotBuying Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Huh?
Sorry for what? Saying that you should go to school or you'll end up a moron like bush and get us into a war we can't win? That's what he basically said. Had absolutely nothing to do with the troops. Only people trying to tie this to the troops are oppurtunist trying to feed on the feeble minded. We should just turn off the lights because if this whole thing is going to hinge on kerry apologizing for something he DIDN'T SAY then we are screwed as a nation.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. He didn't say anything stupid so has no reason to apologize.
Too bad his comment wasn't understood by the stupid clown it was directed at.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. No he didn't and No he shouldn't and yes we should move on as this
is getting ridiculous. Clear enough for you? :eyes:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. He bungled a joke. Taken in context, the people THERE still
got the joke (on Bush) apparently. Only when you take it COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT could it be construed as "stupid".

He owes no one an apology. Bush is the one who needs to be apologizing, that sorry sack of dog shit!
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Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. Ignore this poster. Read his other posts,
and you'll understand why.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. His elitist dick.


His elitism was a major character defect to many in 2004, and his comments appear to substantiate his elitism.

I say appear because unless you believe in the basic goodness of Kerry,which I do, then its easy to see his "botched joke" as insulting to the troops and their families.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. How many Bush voters told you Kerry was "elitist"?
This Texan thinks Kerry is an intelligent, somewhat reserved fellow. Bush also came from a rich family, went to prep school & Ivy League colleges; what a waste of all that money.

I didn't think Gore was "wooden" either.

But I don't get my opinions from Right Wing media fools.



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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. So you have not heard anyone criticize Kerry as elitist?

Sheltered from opposing view points are we?

If you didn't know (but I think you do), Kerry's perceived elitism was easy divisive button to push. Elitism is hard to describe but it involves contempt of non-elite individuals. Its more than just being better than others or knowing youre better than others (which in many ways John Kerry is).

Comments like the "botched joke" only serve as fodder for making him sound elitist instead of being a intelligent, caring politician.

His comments may not have swayed your opinion of Kerry, but you're unimportant because you, like me, will probably vote for whatever candidate the democrats put forward. But there is a middle in America, even in Texas, that don't like to hear troops being insulting even if the insult was the result of a botched bush joke.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
79. No, I don't watch Fox news.
Bush & his family have demonstrated contempt of "non-elite" individuals repeatedly. But they are utterly lacking in class.

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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
67. Yes, Kerry 'is an intelligent, somewhat reserved fellow'
and should be appreciated for the dedication he has for this country as well as the troops. Half assed jokes and cutesy one liners are better left to the AWOL ditzbrain we are currently stuck with.
I agree that Gore doesn't strike me as 'wooden'. More like he is a serious thinking person concerned about the needs of this country and the world. We simply don't need a leader who gets by with comedic, folksy banter at the same time spreading fear around the world. At this time people should be seeking a leader they can look up to, someone who has the intelligence, knowledge and integrity to do what is best for this country.
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. Heh - I like that way of stating it..."stepped on his own dick..."
<mr burns voice>Excellent...</mr burns voice>
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
70. Crude
nc
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. I agree...Kerry, PLEASE SHUT UP!!!!!!!
I watched the whole Kerry appearance and he could have sais it SO much better. This guy just fell right on his face. I even had some strong D friends at breakfast this morning tearing up about Kerry. I explained to them what he meant and told them about his rebuttal (which was BRILLIANT!!), but the damage has been done.

If Kerry is foolish enough to try again in 2008, all we'll hear is how "john Kerry called our troops in Iraq stupid". We know he didn't call the troops stupid, but that's not how a lot of people (here in Middle America) are seeing it.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Another defeatist attitude
You are saying Kerry lost the rovian spin battle. You are saying rove won.

You see why I hate your kinds of posts?

Take your own advice that you gave Kerry.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Yes, I'm sure that you...
...or any of us, could do so much better than Kerry.

Why, any of us could give several speeches a week, with the GOP spin machine combing every word, looking for tidbits to distort -- and we'd never be caught in a manufactured faux pas.

Right.

When Democrats stand together, we'll win.

The people right now who are making this an issue, including the Democrats demanding that Kerry backpedal -- these are the people who will lose this election for us. Not Kerry. He is doing the right thing by standing firm.

By the way -- did you notice that Max Cleland is defending Kerry on this? Does that tell you anything?

And, where is the outrage at Cheney's remarks, clearly equating half of the voting population with terrorist supporters? Where is the outrage that our military has called off the search for a kidnapped American soldier?

WHERE IS THE FUCKING OUTRAGE???!!!
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
59. Exactly. They 've been waiting for one little misstep from somone, so they could
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 01:01 PM by LeahD
use the soundbyte and twist and smear. They're counting on voters not doing their research, listening to the MSM and Rush.

"Why, any of us could give several speeches a week, with the GOP spin machine combing every word, looking for tidbits to distort -- and we'd never be caught in a manufactured faux pas."

Edit spelling
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
75. I would like to see more outrage, too...
The fact that NOBODY in the media is following Cheney's comments does show more of the media bias. Only Keith Olberman seems to be paying attention.

As for Kerry, I stand by my criticism. He more than anone else whould understand how the Rovian meat grinder works. Yes, he screwed up his lines. Unfortunately, a verbal gaffe in like a missle: once its gone, you can't call it back. We don't need Democrats out there given the Pukes new sound bites.

Here in Indiana, it looks like my Rubber-Stamp Republican Congressman is going to be gone in one week. We are a very conservative district and Kerry's comments here have pissed off both D's and I's. This morning, I had breakfast with my usual group, including two Democratic (local) elected officials. They were more put off by the comments that our less political colleagues. I will not be surprised to see out local Dem for Congress repudiate Kerry's comments if he's questioned about it.

As for Democrats standing together, I have to agree BUT with a caveat. In a district like this, with a REAl chance of picking up a Congressional seat, we cannot hang with somebody who could cost us the election. The Pukes here have tried to turn Nancy Pelosi into the pre-election "boogey-man", but it hasnt worked since most voters here wouldn't know Pelosi from the Man in the Moon. Kerry's comments, however, are resonating. I can almost guarantee a GOP ad featring Kerry's sound bit before Election Day. I don't like it, but I undrstand what we're up against.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #75
83. I hear you; however...
...the Republicans attained their stranglehold on power in this country by sticking together and harnessing the power of anger/outrage, rather than running from it.

If the Democrats had Kerry's back on this, and defended him -- this would have quickly become a non-issue. All they had to do was formulate a unified response that recognized he was not talking about the troops, then turn it around and ask where is the outrage for (insert outrageous-Republican-statement-du-jour here).

At the very least, they could remain silent unless directly questioned on it. Then, see above: we needed a unified response rather than a circular firing squad. And the sad thing is, we go into position every time the right wing attacks, yet never make a unified attack on the other side when they say the most outrageous things.

Oh well. We're on the same side here, and yes, different circumstances make for different perspectives. Let's get out there and win this one, hopefully it will be a massive Democratic victory this time!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. When even the RW shills on talk radio here in Los Angeles
come to Kerry's defense and say BUSH is essentially lying about what Kerry said, you know the worm has turned.

Kerry did not fall on his face. He simply misspoke, but taken in context everybody there still got the joke.

How much is KKKarl paying you to come here, BTW?
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. another thread in the Hidden bin
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. Yes, let's ask all of our Democratic politicians...
...to carefully parse phrases before uttering a single word.

Let's ask them to never speak from the heart, because some GOP operative will be there to grab anything that can be distorted and do so.

Let's ask them to become mushy corporate mouthpieces, uttering banalities that can never offend because they are 100% content-free.

Let's punish, punish, punish those champions on our side who have been attacked by the rapacious right, because that will strengthen our position in the run-up to the election.

Let's ignore the fact that our CIC has never attended a single soldier's funeral.

Let's ignore the fact that Iraq is spiraling out of control.

Let's ignore the fact that our military command, under the CIC, have abandoned the search for one of our own soldiers who was kidnapped in Iraq.

Let's jump on the GOP bandwagon every time they criticize one of our own, and let's not demand apologies from them when they disparage half the population and accuse them of being terrorist supporters.

Then, when we don't do as well as we expected, let's blame the same people we attacked, accusing them of (a) not being careful with their words, and (b) being too timid.

Yeah, that'll work.
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Whalesaver Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Don't blame rove
Kerry said it at this tinme and blew it. he needs to shut up and let the election process move ahead in the correct manner and not get side tracked
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Since you're such an old hand here at DU
you should know that the above remark is inappropriate. The previous poster has a right to his/her opinion.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. Mea culpa.
I try not to get carried away.

Most of the time I succeed.

I'll be more careful not to engage this sort of discussion against an individual, but point it out in more general terms if I think it is necessary.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's because it's SO DAMN BIG.
The fair-weather "democrats" in here mewling about apologies and fallout can only wish they could trip over their own johnson like he did.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. So what's your point?
The OP made ref to Kerry's member as a metphor for his "gaffe", and I affirmed the metaphor by alluding to its size.

AFAIK, Kerry hasn't touched on the topic.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. watch Kerry manage to screw up 1 more time with this story
I expect Kerry to have 50 emergency conference calls with his advisors before making a decision to offer a public apology after the issue is already dead, thus reviving the story, sucking energy from the newscycle the day before the election.

I know he has it in him.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You make a valid point.
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 12:20 PM by smoogatz
Best thing he can do now is let it go.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. "I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too."
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2619383&page=2

What's unclear is if Kerry's comments will help rally Republican voters or help their party portray Democrats as against the troops to score victories next Tuesday. A Democratic congressman told ABC News Tuesday, "I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too."
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Keep spewing the ABC-r/w talking points. Maybe you're on the
wrong forum? And let me know when ABC releases who said that. :eyes:
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. I'd love to know who was quoted
So I could write them a thank you letter.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I'd take that with a grain of salt.
Whoever it was apparently didn't want their name attached to the quote.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
85. Even worse -- backbiting = typical stupidity
by conservative Dems stuck in a Reagan mentality of
running from the evil hippie libruls who got us out
of Vietnam when we could have won, could have had
no busing, no failed attempt to desegregate schools,
no war on poverty and we'd still be a great nation
like we were in the 1950s. Conservative Dem mentality.

DLC dems merely hate Kerry because he's a threat to
their upper-class takeover of the Dem party. Class
traitor and all.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
81. Is that why he had a press conferance yesterday
mere hours after the flap started? I didn't know it was possible to make so many conference calls so quickly.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
51. Alot of Wussy Dems
Already backing down...
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jhain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
52. Do you have a picture of that?
Size does matter.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. He's a pretty tall guy. And his feet are enormous...
But, you know, there's no basis for that in science...
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. Yeah, think Toulouse Lautrec
The 'little teapot'.
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jhain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #60
74. what is science?
Maybe when the world is older than 5 thousand years we will have science?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
69. Crazy. and ironic..Bush can joke about WMDs,
lie like a rug, cheat, smirk, joke, hate, pout and generally exhibit signs of an unhinged mind. Yet, Kerry has committed some sort of a great sin. Ughh
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. YAWN...big deal...the repugs are so desperate, this is all they've got.
It's really sad that our dumbass president has to stoop so low as to jump on the noise machine because he's got nothing to talk about. What a lame government, with a 16% approval of the congress and 30% for the dumbass in charge, I think this amounts to a big fat NOTHING. I'm bored already. But the noise machine will play it over and over again for the empty heads that love to listen to nothing important and send their children to die.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
77. and where were you when little lord pissy pants said........
http://www.dubyaspeak.com/audio/player.phtml?clip_name=peeance

It's in the interest of -- uhh -- uhh, long-term peace in the world that we -- uhh -- work for a free and secure and peaceful Iraq. A peeance, freeance secure Iraq in the midst of the Middle East will have enormous historical impact.
-- White House, Oct. 27, 2003

and who's dick did pissy pants step on when this was started based on lies?????
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article...

and the people of Bagdad have been running out of food and have been living on watermelon and bread for WEEKS

WHERE IS THE APPOLOGY ABOUT WHAT FOLEY DID TO CHILDREN?????????

WHERE IS HASTERTS APPOLOGY FOR LOOKING THE OTHER WAY WHEN CHILDREN UNDER HIS CHARGE HAVE BEEN ABUSED????????

AND WHERE IS THE APPOLOGY FOR THIS????????


E&P: Revealed: U.S. Soldier Killed Herself After Objecting to Interrogation Techniques

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressin...

The true stories of how American troops, killed in Iraq, actually died keep spilling out this week. On Tuesday, we explored the case of Kenny Stanton, Jr., murdered last month by our allies, the Iraqi police, though the military didn’t make that known at the time. Now we learn that one of the first female soldiers killed in Iraq died by her own hand after objecting to interrogation techniques used on prisoners.

AND THE LIES ABOUT Pat Tillman?????

where is the appology about Bechtel bailing out of Iraq yesterday after getting our tax money for 3 years..for reconstruction of Iraq..and the poor iraqi's still have shit in their water and only a couple hours of power a day..

you go cook like that!! ..just try..


tell pissy pants to appologize for this..to our troops and the people ..the human beings of Iraq who will be dying of horrible cancers for ever...


i want an appology ..but thats not good enough from pissy pants..i want him on trial at the hague and i want him to get the same sentence that saddam gets!
and i want our so called media to be held to the same account!


fly

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

REQUEST WIDE DISTRIBUTION

Dr. Allen Roland hits the proverbial bulls eye once again in an unflinching analysis of the distrasous fire and explosive destruction of the huge Ammo Dump in Southern Baghdad: Forward Camp Falcon. A Billion Dollars worth of American manufactured machined uranium fashioned into shells, missiles and bombs blew the ammo dump to pieces. October 10, 2006

Bob Nichols
Project Censored Award Winning Writer





Allen L Roland, Ph.D.




AMERICA'S GREATEST CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY / MILITARY USE OF DU

" By illegally using hundreds of tons of depleted uranium (DU) against Iraq ~ Britain and America have gravely endangered not only the Iraqis but the whole world: " Dr. Chris Busby, the British radiation expert and UK representative on the European Committee on Radiation Risk .

I originally posted this on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 but with the recent October forward Camp Falcon DU explosions ~ it is now even more pertinent.

The game is up for Bush , Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and the Republicans ~ we have not only fought an illegal war and occupation but we have endangered the whole world in the process.

Reporter James Denver, who writes and broadcasts internationally on science and technology, shares the terrible legacy of DU ( Depleted Uranium ) as well as the vital evidence and the enormous harm done by the government of the United States and Great Britian ~ who are both still officially in denial.

Excerpt: " Britain and America not only used DU in this year's Iraq war, they dramatically increased its use-from a minimum of 320 tons in the previous war to at minimum of 1500 tons in this one. And this time the use of DU wasn't limited to anti-tank weapons-as it had largely been in the previous Gulf war-but was extended to the guided missiles, large bunker busters and big 2000-pound bombs used in Iraq's cities .... In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying, 'The Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body.' He concluded, 'uranium does cause cancer, uranium does cause mutation, and uranium does kill. If we continue with the irresponsible contamination of the biosphere, and denial of the fact that human life is endangered by the deadly isotope uranium, then we are doing disservice to ourselves, disservice to the truth, disservice to God and to all generations who follow.' "

Allen L Roland
http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2006/10/31.html
Horror Of US Depleted Uranium In Iraq Threatens World

American Use Of DU is "A crime against humanity which may, in the eyes of historians, rank with the worst atrocities of all time." US Iraq Military Vets "are on DU death row, waiting to die."

By James Denver
4-29-05

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=200082971& ;tstart=0&mod=1114828895160


"I'm horrified. The people out there - the Iraqis, the media and the troops - risk the most appalling ill health. And the radiation from depleted uranium can travel literally anywhere. It's going to destroy the lives of thousands of children, all over the world. We all know how far radiation can travel. Radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales and in Britain you sometimes get red dust from the Sahara on your car."

The speaker is not some alarmist doom-sayer. He is Dr. Chris Busby, the British radiation expert, Fellow of the University of Liverpool in the Faculty of Medicine and UK representative on the European Committee on Radiation Risk, talking about the best-kept secret of this war: the fact that, by illegally using hundreds of tons of depleted uranium (DU) against Iraq ~ Britain and America have gravely endangered not only the Iraqis but the whole world.

For these weapons have released deadly, carcinogenic and mutagenic, radioactive particles in such abundance that-whipped up by sandstorms and carried on trade winds - there is no corner of the globe they cannot penetrate-including Britain. For the wind has no boundaries and time is on their side: the radioactivity persists for over 4,500,000,000 years and can cause cancer, leukemia, brain damage, kidney failure, and extreme birth defects - killing millions of every age for centuries to come. A crime against humanity which may, in the eyes of historians, rank with the worst atrocities of all time.

Yet, officially, no crime has been committed. For this story is a dirty story in which the facts have been concealed from those who needed them most. It is also a story we need to know if the people of Iraq are to get the medical care they desperately need, and if our troops, returning from Iraq, are not to suffer as terribly as the veterans of other conflicts in which depleted uranium was used.

A Dirty Tyson

'Depleted' uranium is in many ways a misnomer. For 'depleted' sounds weak. The only weak thing about depleted uranium is its price. It is dirt cheap, toxic, waste from nuclear power plants and bomb production. However, uranium is one of earth's heaviest elements and DU packs a Tyson's punch, smashing through tanks, buildings and bunkers with equal ease, spontaneously catching fire as it does so, and burning people alive. 'Crispy critters' is what US servicemen call those unfortunate enough to be close. And, when John Pilger encountered children killed at a greater distance he wrote: "The children's skin had folded back, like parchment, revealing veins and burnt flesh that seeped blood, while the eyes, intact, stared straight ahead. I vomited." (Daily Mirror)

The millions of radioactive uranium oxide particles released when it burns can kill just as surely, but far more terribly. They can even be so tiny they pass through a gas mask, making protection against them impossible. Yet, small is not beautiful. For these invisible killers indiscriminately attack men, women, children and even babies in the womb-and do the gravest harm of all to children and unborn babies.

A Terrible Legacy

Doctors in Iraq have estimated that birth defects have increased by 2-6 times, and 3-12 times as many children have developed cancer and leukaemia since 1991. Moreover, a report published in The Lancet in 1998 said that as many as 500 children a day are dying from these sequels to war and sanctions and that the death rate for Iraqi children under 5 years of age increased from 23 per 1000 in 1989 to 166 per thousand in 1993. Overall, cases of lymphoblastic leukemia more than quadrupled with other cancers also increasing 'at an alarming rate'. In men, lung, bladder, bronchus, skin, and stomach cancers showed the highest increase. In women, the highest increases were in breast and bladder cancer, and non-Hodgkin lymphoma.1

On hearing that DU had been used in the Gulf in 1991, the UK Atomic Energy Authority sent the Ministry of Defense a special report on the potential damage to health and the environment. It said that it could cause half a million additional cancer deaths in Iraq over 10 years. In that war the authorities only admitted to using 320 tons of DU-although the Dutch charity LAKA estimates the true figure is closer to 800 tons. Many times that may have been spread across Iraq by this year's war. The devastating damage all this DU will do to the health and fertility of the people of Iraq now, and for generations to come, is beyond imagining.

The radioactivity persists for over 4,500,000,000 years killing millions of every age for centuries to come. This is a crime against humanity which may rank with the worst atrocities of all time.

We must also count the numberless thousands of miscarried babies. Nobody knows how many Iraqis have died in the womb since DU contaminated their world. But it is suggested that troops who were only exposed to DU for the brief period of the war were still excreting uranium in their semen 8 years later and some had 100 times the so-called 'safe limit' of uranium in their urine. The lack of government interest in the plight of veterans of the 1991 war is reflected in a lack of academic research on the impact of DU but informal research has found a high incidence of birth defects in their children and that the wives of men who served in Iraq have three times more miscarriages than the wives of servicemen who did not go there.

Since DU darkened the land Iraq has seen birth defects which would break a heart of stone: babies with terribly foreshortened limbs, with their intestines outside their bodies, with huge bulging tumors where their eyes should be, or with a single eye-like Cyclops, or without eyes, or without limbs, and even without heads. Significantly, some of the defects are almost unknown outside textbooks showing the babies born near A-bomb test sites in the Pacific.

Doctors report that many women no longer say 'Is it a girl or a boy?' but simply, 'Is it normal, doctor?' Moreover this terrible legacy will not end. The genes of their parents may have been damaged for ever, and the damaging DU dust is ever-present.

Blue on Blue

What the governments of America and Britain have done to the people of Iraq they have also done to their own soldiers, in both wars. And they have done it knowingly. For the battlefields have been thick with DU and soldiers have had to enter areas heavily contaminated by bombing. Moreover, their bodies have not only been assaulted by DU but also by a vaccination regime which violated normal protocols, experimental vaccines, nerve agent pills, and organophosphate pesticides in their tents. Yet, though the hazards of DU were known, British and American troops were not warned of its dangers. Nor were they given thorough medical checks on their return-even though identifying it quickly might have made it possible to remove some of it from their body. Then, when a growing number became seriously ill, and should have been sent to top experts in radiation damage and neurotoxins, many were sent to a psychiatrist.

Over 200,000 US troops who returned from the 1991 war are now invalided out with ailments officially attributed to service in Iraq-that's 1 in 3. In contrast, the British government's failure to fully assess the health of returning troops, or to monitor their health, means no one even knows how many have died or become gravely ill since their return. However, Gulf veterans' associations say that, of 40,000 or so fighting fit men and women who saw active service, at least 572 have died prematurely since coming home and 5000 may be ill. An alarming number are thought to have taken their own lives, unable to bear the torment of the innumerable ailments which have combined to take away their career, their sexuality, their ability to have normal children, and even their ability to breathe or walk normally. As one veteran puts it, they are 'on DU death row, waiting to die'.

Whatever other factors there may be, some of their illnesses are strikingly similar to those of Iraqis exposed to DU dust. For example, soldiers have also fathered children without eyes. And, in a group of eight servicemen whose babies lack eyes seven are known to have been directly exposed to DU dust.

They too have fathered children with stunted arms, and rare abnormalities classically associated with radiation damage. They too seem prone to cancer and leukemia. Tellingly, so are EU soldiers who served as peacekeepers in the Balkans, where DU was also used. Indeed their leukemia rate has been so high that several EU governments have protested at the use of DU.

The Vital Evidence

Despite all that evidence of the harm done by DU, governments on both sides of the Atlantic have repeatedly claimed that as it emits only 'low level' radiation DU is harmless. Award-winning scientist, Dr. Rosalie Bertell who has led UN medical commissions, has studied 'low-level' radiation for 30 years. 2 She has found that uranium oxide particles have more than enough power to harm cells, and describes their pulses of radiation as hitting surrounding cells 'like flashes of lightning' again and again in a single second.2 Like many scientists worldwide who have studied this type of radiation, she has found that such 'lightning strikes' can damage DNA and cause cell mutations which lead to cancer.

Moreover, these particles can be taken up by body fluids and travel through the body, damaging more than one organ. To compound all that, Dr. Bertell has found that this particular type of radiation can cause the body's communication systems to break down, leading to malfunctions in many vital organs of the body and to many medical problems. A striking fact, since many veterans of the first Gulf war suffer from innumerable, seemingly unrelated, ailments.

In addition, recent research by Eric Wright, Professor of Experimental Haematology at Dundee University, and others, have shown two ways in which such radiation can do far more damage than has been thought. The first is that a cell which seems unharmed by radiation can produce cells with diverse mutations several cell generations later. (And mutations are at the root of cancer and birth defects.) This 'radiation-induced genomic instability' is compounded by 'the bystander effect' by which cells mutate in unison with others which have been damaged by radiation-rather as birds swoop and turn in unison. Put together, these two mechanisms can greatly increase the damage done by a single source of radiation, such as a DU particle. Moreover, it is now clear that there are marked genetic differences in the way individuals respond to radiation-with some being far more likely to develop cancer than others. So the fact that some veterans of the first Gulf war seem relatively unharmed by their exposure to DU in no way proves that DU did not damage others.

The Price of Truth

That the evidence from Iraq and from our troops, and the research findings of such experts, have been ignored may be no accident. A US report, leaked in late 1995, allegedly says, 'The potential for health effects from DU exposure is real; however it must be viewed in perspective... the financial implications of long-term disability payments and healthcare costs would be excessive.'3

Clearly, with hundreds of thousands gravely ill in Iraq and at least a quarter of a million UK and US troops seriously ill, huge disability claims might be made not only against the governments of Britain and America if the harm done by DU were acknowledged. There might also be huge claims against companies making DU weapons and some of their directors are said to be extremely close to the White House. How close they are to Downing Street is a matter for speculation, but arms sales makes a considerable contribution to British trade. So the massive whitewashing of DU over the past 12 years, and the way that governments have failed to test returning troops, seemed to disbelieve them, and washed their hands of them, may be purely to save money.

The possibility that financial considerations have led the governments of Britain and America to cynically avoid taking responsibility for the harm they have done not only to the people of Iraq but to their own troops may seem outlandish. Yet DU weapons weren't used by the other side and no other explanation fits the evidence. For, in the days before Britain and America first used DU in war its hazards were no secret.4 One American study in 1990 said DU was 'linked to cancer when exposures are internal, chemical toxicity-causing kidney damage'. While another openly warned that exposure to these particles under battlefield conditions could lead to cancers of the lung and bone, kidney damage, non-malignant lung disease, neuro-cognitive disorders, chromosomal damage and birth defects.5

A Culture of Denial

In 1996 and 1997 UN Human Rights Tribunals condemned DU weapons for illegally breaking the Geneva Convention and classed them as 'weapons of mass destruction' 'incompatible with international humanitarian and human rights law'. Since then, following leukemia in European peacekeeping troops in the Balkans and Afghanistan (where DU was also used), the EU has twice called for DU weapons to be banned.

Yet, far from banning DU, America and Britain stepped up their denials of the harm from this radioactive dust as more and more troops from the first Gulf war and from action and peacekeeping in the Balkans and Afghanistan have become seriously ill. This is no coincidence. In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying, 'The Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body.' He concluded, 'uranium does cause cancer, uranium does cause mutation, and uranium does kill. If we continue with the irresponsible contamination of the biosphere, and denial of the fact that human life is endangered by the deadly isotope uranium, then we are doing disservice to ourselves, disservice to the truth, disservice to God and to all generations who follow.' Not what the authorities wanted to hear and his research was suddenly blocked.

During 12 years of ever-growing British whitewash the authorities have abolished military hospitals, where there could have been specialized research on the effects of DU and where expertise in treating DU victims could have built up. And, not content with the insult of suggesting the gravely disabling symptoms of Gulf veterans are imaginary they have refused full pensions to many. For, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the current House of Commons briefing paper on DU hazards says 'it is judged that any radiation effects from possible exposures are extremely unlikely to be a contributory factor to the illnesses currently being experienced by some Gulf war veterans.' Note how over a quarter of a million sick and dying US and UK vets are called 'some'.

The Way Ahead

Britain and America not only used DU in this year's Iraq war, they dramatically increased its use-from a minimum of 320 tons in the previous war to at minimum of 1500 tons in this one. And this time the use of DU wasn't limited to anti-tank weapons-as it had largely been in the previous Gulf war-but was extended to the guided missiles, large bunker busters and big 2000-pound bombs used in Iraq's cities. This means that Iraq's cities have been blanketed in lethal particles-any one of which can cause cancer or deform a child. In addition, the use of DU in huge bombs which throw the deadly particles higher and wider in huge plumes of smoke means that billions of deadly particles have been carried high into the air-again and again and again as the bombs rained down-ready to be swept worldwide by the winds.

The Royal Society has suggested the solution is massive decontamination in Iraq. That could only scratch the surface. For decontamination is hugely expensive and, though it may reduce the risks in some of the worst areas, it cannot fully remove them. For DU is too widespread on land and water. How do you clean up every nook and cranny of a city the size of Baghdad? How can they decontaminate a whole country in which microscopic particles, which cannot be detected with a normal geiger counter, are spread from border to border? And how can they clean up all the countries downwind of Iraq-and, indeed, the world?

So there are only two things we can do to mitigate this crime against humanity. The first is to provide the best possible medical care for the people of Iraq, for our returning troops and for those who served in the last Gulf war and, through that, minimize their suffering. The second is to relegate war, and the production and sale of weapons, to the scrap heap of history-along with slavery and genocide.

Then, and only then, will this crime against humanity be expunged, and the tragic deaths from this war truly bring freedom to the people of Iraq, and of the world.

References

1. The Lancet volume 351, issue 9103, 28 February 1998.

2. Rosalie Bertell's book Planet Earth the Latest Weapon of War was reviewed in Caduceus issue 51, page 28.

3. http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_tabl1
. htm#TAB L_Research Report Summaries

4. www.wagingpeace.org/articles/02.01/020117moret.htm
The secret official memorandum to Brigadier General L.R.Groves from Drs Conant, Compton and Urey of War Department Manhattan district dated October 1943 is available at the website www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Leuren-Moret-Gen-Grove s21feb03.htm

5. http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_iitab11 .
htm#tab L_research report summaries

Further information

The Low Level Radiation Campaign hopes to be able to arrange a limited number of private urine tests for those returning from the latest Gulf war. It can be contacted at: The Knoll, Montpelier Park, Llandrindod Wells, LD1 5LW. 01597 824771. Web: www.llrc.org

James Denver writes and broadcasts internationally on science and technology.

Allen L Roland is a practicing psychotherapist, author and lecturer who also shares a daily political and social commentary on his weblog and website allenroland.com He also guest hosts a monthly national radio show TRUTHTALK on Conscious talk radio www.conscioustalk.net












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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
78. I'm sorry but to paraphrase Lynne Cheney, the media
is building a mighty big house on a molehill. If * had said the same thing, no one would have even recorded it. And we all know that the Chimperor trips on his dick all the time.

Although, I agree, it's time to stop talking about it and move on talking about the many brilliant and bold things Kerry did say this week.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. I agree 100%...
as you said..

"Although, I agree, it's time to stop talking about it and move on talking about the many brilliant and bold things Kerry did say this week."

may i add /and the 11 million$$$$$$$$$$$ he has collected and distributed for many candidates in the dem party in 40 states, and even the 1 million he kicked into the dnc last week along with Kennedy when the dnc was running out of money!

fly
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
82. Hiding this thread
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
86. Let's face it people, Kerry fucked up and gave Rove a talking point.
Edited on Wed Nov-01-06 08:14 PM by Odin2005
He can apologize about the gaffe untill the cows come home and it won't help anything because the MSM are determined to "prove" that Kerry hates the troops and that he's a "Liberul Elitist". If he keeps trying to explain the screw up all he'll do is keep the story going.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
87. If you really want to move on, why are you dropping this flame-ball in GD?
I won't even go into the Kerry situation, it's been done and done again, and done some more.

Face it -- the Republicans will ****NEVER**** play fair and square -- they have BIG money up the wazoo, and they're constantly looking for any miniscule mouse-fart that they can dump into their right-wing echo chamber.

For this election, Kerry is irrelevant. THAT's the real talking point. :grr:
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