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My Greatest Fear. (Is my tin-foil hat too tight?)

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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:11 PM
Original message
My Greatest Fear. (Is my tin-foil hat too tight?)
I'm getting an uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. With so many stories about electronic voting irregularities, combined with the fact that the companies that make e-voting machines are heavy contributors to the Republican Party, I'm a little concerned that we are heading for a disaster in this country. Without verifiable paper ballots, or access to the software, the chance for abuse, or outright theft of the election is at least a slim possibility. But, there is something else that makes alarm bells go off in my head. If you look at the below from the Freakers, they are complaining that Hugo Chavez is invested in companies that make e-voting machines.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1727931/posts

I know that the emphasis on here has been (and rightly so), on the possibility of votes being flipped to give the Repukes a victory in November, but what if we've missed something? With all the "interesting" stories out there about e-voting fraud, now including one from the wing-nuts on the right, what if the problem is not with flipping votes, but with the chaos that could result? What would it take? How many complaints of strange happenings on election day would it take to throw this election into crisis? What is the constitutional way an issue like that is dealt with. Here are my specific questions:

- Is there any provision whereby the election is thrown out?
- Who has jurisdiction? Is it the Supreme Court, or individual states?
- Can the neocons use the chaos created to legally call for a "do-over"?

I know I may be in unchartered conspiracy waters, but I've said for a long time that these folks on the right are not going to give up power willingly.

Vote flipping is one thing, but the neo-cons may be counting more on chaos.

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. t's not a fear, it's reality. n/t
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whoever loses will complain.
And if the repubs lose, they'll make a far louder noise about it all...
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Hopefully through the chaos we can fix this mess
First we need to remind them that we had electronic voting machines fucking up in 2004 even though the press decided not to cover it and Kerry bowed out graciously :puke: (yeah the thought of that still makes me puke so fucking sue me) so we have to be sure to ask the Rethugs if Hugo owned those machines?
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. yes. And want to bet that it would actually get air time
where in 2000, 2002, & 2004 it barely got covered?
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Sour Grapes is one thing
and I think that happens all the time, where a few people on each side scream "fraud" when things don't go the way they want.

That's not my concern. My concern is this election being thrown into chaos. The DUer below who mentioned the Mexico elections is spot-on what I'm talking about.

Could those in power throw out results that they don't agree with? I'm not ready to head for the canned food aisle yet, but this whole e-voting issue could cause the greatest crisis in our country since the Civil War....and I'm not one taken by hyperbole.
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cautiouslywaiting Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm scared too.
They'll do anything to stay in power. Just look at what they've done already. And if you think about it, we can actually see the vote flipping but there's no telling how many things are going on that we can't see. What else are they doing? And what are we going to do about it?
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itsmesgd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. buckle up, this is going to be a wild ride
The next two weeks (one before and one after) will be something pretty crazy. Hang on, keep a full tank of gas, some canned foods on hand, and watch the circus come to its peak.

peace
sgd
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Sound advice
and can't be said enough. If things get weird enough things could go south real fricken quick. Panicked violent people can destroy civilized society in no time flat if they put their minds to it.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Republicans always worry about "fraud"
you know.. the stories we hear from our old pal, Ann Ecdotal..

the ones where cigarettes are traded for votes..or where homeless people are rounded up to vote..or where nursing home patients have "help" in voting.

They get media attention to put these silly stories on par with massive, institutional fraud that their party is so good at.

People forget, but this did not start with 2K..

We only had it shoved in our faces in 2K.. This plan has been in effect for a long time.

There's a reason why so many SOS offices are APPOINTMENT jobs.. These jobs fly under the radar..but it's THERE where the biggest fraud occurs..

Voter purges, "lost" absentee ballots, late-counted absentee ballots, "lost" registrations..you name it.

When you show up to vote and they don't have you "on the list"..you are S.O.L.....magnify that by thousands and add that to the "uncertainty" of the VVMs..

now add in a liberal dose of wacky poll numbers that make little or no sense, and seem to "flip" weekly...and toss in the "sudden unreliability" of exit polls..

the perfect election "storm"

We will NEVER really know who actually "won" any election.

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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. honestly, I have wondered about something similar
with the growing awareness of election fraud actually and it actually being discussed, and now with the "connection" to Chavez, I wonder if they are setting up being able to cry "FOUL!" when we actually win. Would election chaos similar to what happened in Mexico cause martial law to be declared? I'd have to think that with the timing of the detainee torture act, more people would be afraid to protest if they did steal the election, or if they just claimed we stole it (despite the overwhelming polls showing what the people actually want).

I'm still gonna vote and do whatever is necessary to preserve democracy and freedom in the country I love, but at this point I can't trust the Rethugs. Not that I trusted them much before, but they seem to have grown bolder lately.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. That, instead of a "terrorist attack", may just be the reason Bush would
need to issue the "lockdown" order ... concern about "civil war" erupting ... of course, because "Dems" somehow stole the election, and the psychos are threatening action (remember, they're the party advocating "little government" and "killing them all and letting God sort them out" ...) ... so the "Right-to-life" Righties would be encouraging people to take up arms against the "illegitimate government", and Bush, in his conscience, could not let the "illegitimates" take over without a full investigation ...

Gee, that sounds roughly like what might have happened in December 2000, had Sandra Day O'Connor actually voted to allow the counting to go on, instead of fellating every Repuke fantasist ...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Courage. Show up in numbers TOO BIG TO IGNORE. Get out the vote.
Chin up. There will be lawyers everywhere. People will be suspicious. Okay to worry..but not okay to create apathy. There are already 35% of the population who never bother to vote..don't give them an excuse "aw my vote won't count". Go out and volunteer. Plant some signs. Talk to all your friends..everyone you know and make sure they will vote.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. Great Advice
I don't think that all of their efforts are going to work against the tsunami that is coming their way.

All of their corrupt efforts are going to be like trying to bail the Titanic with a thimble.

I'm volunteering in my area.

I'm planting Jim Webb signs.

I'm taking the day off from work to help in any way I can.

This election is too damn important. Someone needs to put the brakes on these MFer's
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. More good advice!
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. Frankly... I Believe We're ALL Scared!! Just GOTV & See What
happens. If trends are in our favor and we lose, we MUST... not just be mealy mouth about it, we MUST DEMAND our voter rights!! We MUST NOT LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!

I know Howard Dean, and Bless His Soul, says we will monitor each "blip" but that still doesn't make it so! I myself am planning on sitting my butt at my voting precinct to watch what happens!!

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. You must be reading my web site!
A Tsunami of E-voting Chaos

I have no doubt THIS is their strategy for "winning." Watch out, big-time, for the Busby-Bilbray court precedent. But their larger, ultimate goal is to totally undermine the credibility of the system itself, just as the worked hard to undermine their base's faith in any television news anchor who isn't under contract to Fox, or they way they made sure newspapers such as the New York Times couldn't be trusted. It works totally to their advantage to make anyone who doubts them appear un-credible. That is the ultimate goal. If you don't know whom to trust, you'll wind up trusting no one, and there is no way for the ACTUAL, REAL TRUTH to penetrate the din of lies.

.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Im freaking the fuck out over this.
as much as i dont want to, as much as i think we have the House in the bag. We all know what these fucks are capable of and im frightened taht i may turn my tv onb to hear some shit like 'the polls were wrong, Wolf. The Dems never knew what was coming.'

if they do this, shit needs to be set ion fire instantly. At this point, we know we have the House and,maybe another 10- 20 seats extra... if it doesnt come out that way i dont know what i will do...
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. COUNT ON IT! The republicans have NOTHING to lose by stealing it with their machines!
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:22 PM by GreenTea
The republicans sure as fuck know they can't win it fairly...Power is much too important to them, they have stolen election after election since 2000 with no, none, never any repercussions...Does ANYONE believe they are NOT going to steal again? The republicans own the machines and the software...They are facing massive hearings in the Dem's win...Of course they will be stealing every election they need to. This didn't just occur to them yesterday, they've been setting this up for years...they have to, or face certain defeat,ove know this...The repbulicans have NOTHING to lose by stealing it...NOTHING!

Donate your time to monitor voting activity at the polls!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. REMEMBER BUSBY-BILBRAY
The name of the game is PRECEDENT. Throw the tight races into chaos, certify the republican LOSER before a court challenge can be heard. The courts already ruled in the B-B case that they had no jurisdiction once the winner had been certified.

Not the total strategy, but a lynch pin, to be sure.

.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Look at it this way:
If they do manage to steal this election, things will be so completely awful by 2008 that there may well be rioting in the streets.

The only down side to Democrats winning big this year is that then they'll be held completely and totally responsible for the humongous mess the Republicans have created during the past six years. But we can take it. Heck, despite their control of Congress since 1994 and the Presidency since 2000, they continue to blame Democrats for everything, so what else is new?

There is no provision in our Constitution for a "do-over". We have to live with whatever the results are, fraudulent or otherwise.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. I am certain they will do all to steal it
I try to remain positive about this .

Then reality sinks in . Bush knows Iraq is in trouble but then there is cheney saying all is well . These people have too much to loose on so many fronts if they loose . They will not face all the fraud that will surface if we win control of the house or senate .

I think they will do anything they can to hold onto their power , for bush he will not be able to tolerate failure or loose power and the rest of these thugs have just as much to loose .

I don;t know if the dems will be able to pull us out of Iraq at this point . They want the dems to fix their mess but they don;t want their mess to end , this is massive profit making for all the repugs involved .

I don't know how marshal law will pan out but it is possible , I have no idea if there are enough troops here to create this control , all they really have to do is pose a threat that is big enough to scare off protests .

They had no problem stealing the last few elections without the new torture law , now they have this added in .

There is still enough time for anything to happen , one day and there can't be an oct surprise so it will have to be a nov surprise .

They have their crowd control mico wave crap too . I am not a reactionary but these things are real .
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