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Don't most polling places have Democratic & Repub observers?

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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:50 AM
Original message
Don't most polling places have Democratic & Repub observers?

Please--if you think your machine is not tallying the vote correctly, go get the observer from the Democratic Party and start whatever is necessary to call attention to the problem so that your vote is correct!

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's a logical plan, BUT
how do you know what's been "recorded" inside the inner-workings of the vapor-vote machine?

or

at the "central tabulator"?

THAT'S where the votes ARE...not on your telescreen or on some jammed-up, misprinted, mal-aligned "register-tape" alongside the "VVM"..

Our elections have become totally faith-based..
:grr:



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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, faith-based on the Fristians! That's no faith to me.
Will you believe when there is a Rupuglican landslide on November 8th?
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. What SoCalDem said. nt.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. My point is in the situation where YOU KNOW it's being recorded
incorrectly--some people are evidently SEEING that their vote is switching to the Repub--then demand that a Democratic observer come over to help. Don't just rely on whatever the election board people are telling you.

Obviously in the cases where you can't see what's happening, getting the Dem observer isn't really going to help much.

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. In Washington State....
Poll workers are picked from applicants who take a loyalty oath to one of the state's major political parties (currently just Dems and Repugs, but Libertarians have had major party status on and off in the last 20 years.) At any given poll, the poll workers are taken equally from each major party, and yes: they are there to make sure the other side(s) don't cheat.

I think that would be a good idea: find one of the Democratic pollworkers and raise a big stink.
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. its a bit idiotic to think they'd have the ability to control the programming of the software
and they would just misalign the touch screen to actually display the vote is being cast for the opposite party. It would be far easier to just display the correct intention of the voter, and record it for the opposite. Anyone complaining about vote swapping and actually seeing it happen, is just someone overly nervous who doesn't understand the problem. Touch screens that are just off the shelf or rushed to be tested are gonna invariably be slightly misaligned, which is the case with almost everyone of these machines. Plus some people just have fat fingers.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. here's a counter-example... TEN, actually
and there's more where this came from:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

1.Florida Palm Beach Couple voted for Kerry -- when confirmed vote, came out Bush. Called in eleciton poll supervisor, who got same result. Continued to use machine.

2.Florida Miami-Dade Andrea called to pass on anecdotal information that this happened; she has no first-hand information...voter machines would select wrong candidate when voter selected J. Kerry - G. Bush would be selected.

3.Florida Miami-Dade When voter pushed button for Kerry, Bush came up on the screen.

4.Florida Miami-Dade In precinct 249 we are getting reports that voters are pushing Kerry button, but Bush keep's coming up.

5. Florida Miami-Dade Voter attempted to vote for Kerry and ballot showed vote for Bush instead; she left poll; she tried to clear it and it wouldn't clear; so she cast vote with Bush instead showing.

6 New Mexico Bernalillo Reported that voters tried to vote for Kerry and Peroutka's name was recorded.

7 Texas Travis Machines are confusing, if you straight Dem, then go back to review or change, a vote for Kerry is changed to a vote for Bush. But there is no paper receipt to verify the problem or if the vote was actually cast for Bush. Voter just received a warning from her precinct chair to that effect.

8 Florida Palm Beach County Woman went to vote and used electronic voting machine. The two presidential candidates' names came up on the screen, Bush was first and Kerry second. She said she carefully clicked on Kerry but the check mark appeared next to Bush's name. She called someone over to help her and that woman told her to check on the mistaken check mark and it would remove the check mark. Then she could try again and check on Kerry's name. She did and it worked the second time. She was concerned that it took her two times to get her vote right.

9 Texas Bear County Checked Kerry and it showed Bush as the person she voted for. Calling for her Aunt.

10 Washington Snohomish caller calling for sister. contact information is for sister who experienced problem. polling place uses automated voting machine. voter selected kerry on ballot and reviewed results; showed a vote for bush. repeated at least 3 times before reults reflected kerry vote. told poll worker who responded that it had been a common occurrence already that morning.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not observers
I was an observer last year in MD. I was working with TrueVoteMD but the credential they gave me said Progressive. There were no Democratic party observers at that location. Several Repubs showed up but they didn't stay long.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe you shouldn't BOTHER
Good suggestion Lex...but really maybe you shouldn't bother. We are being told by many DU'ers and other online bloggers that the election is being Stolen right before our eyes, the fix is in, Roves math, bla bla bla. So why should anyone even bother to vote?

There was a recent story that quoted Donna Brazile, something about our party was spending money to convince people to vote even though they "believe" the elections have been stolen and voting doesn't matter. Are you all able to read english and comprehend that the paranoia is not helping?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. *sigh* We have to vote! I can't stand the "let's give up, it's lost"
attitude.

I'm not saying election fraud isn't happening, but they win FOR SURE if we convince ourselves that it's stolen already and don't vote.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. you are completely off base
we are NOT saying don't vote. that's a giant burning strawman.



folks here on DU are activists talking to activists -- we are voters and poll watchers. we are also academics and realists. we are concerned and have the data to back up our worries.

the Donna Brazille piece deals with black populations in places such as DADE County Florida where blacks have been targeted since the 2000 Gore V Bush race where such fun abuses took place as:

http://www.midtod.com/election.phtml

*Carpools of African-American voters were stopped by police. In some cases, officers demanded to see a "taxi license."

*Polls closed with people still in line in Tampa.

*In Osceola County, ballots did not line up properly, possibly causing Gore voters to have their ballots cast for Harry Browne. Also, Hispanic voters were required to produce two forms of id when only one is required.

*Dozens, and possibly hundreds, of voters in Broward County were unable to vote because the Supervisor of Elections did not have enough staff to verify changes of address.

*Voters were mistakenly removed from voter rolls because their names were similar to those of ex-cons.

*According to Reuters news service, many voters received pencils rather than pens when they voted, in violation of state law.

*The Miami Herald reported that many Haitian-American voters were turned away from precincts where they were voting for the first time.

*The mayoral candidate whose election in Miami was overturned due to voter fraud, Xavier Suarez, said he was involved in preparing absentee ballots for George w. Bush.

*CBS's Dan Rather reported a possible "computer error" in Volusia County, Florida, where James Harris, a Socialist Workers Party candidate, won 9,888 votes. (He got only 583 in the rest of the state).

*Many African-American first-time voters who registered at motor vehicles offices or in campus voter registration drives did not appear on the voting rolls, according to a hearing conducted by the NAACP and televised on C-SPAN

*The London Times has reported a suspected pro-Bush vote fraud operation in Miami involving thousands of ballots.

*Jewish precincts had a suspiciously high number of double-punched ballots, and another lost its computerized votes altogether when a poll worker "accidentally" erased them.

*The Florida Highway Patrol confirmed that the department did conduct what it called a "routine" check point near a black precinct in Tallahassee on election day. Police asked black men to get out of their vehicles and produce identification.

*African Americans received calls the weekend before the election from a speaker who falsely claimed to be with the NAACP, asking them to vote for Bush. Similar calls were reported in Michigan and Virginia.

*Sandy Goard, supervisor of elections of Seminole County, admitted allowing two Republican operatives to add missing voter-identification numbers to 4,700 incomplete absentee ballot requests, mostly GOP voters -- actions that were illegal.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. giant burning strawman?
There have been polls that show quite clearly that I am not raising a burning strawman. These are public forums you are using to spread this paranoia. The proper way to report election fraud is not to jump on the internet under an anonymous account. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly about that.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. it's too bad our "leadership" can't lead on this issue
but just because John Kerry wouldn't stand up and Al Gore (bless his heart) didn't stand up -- and you, Jim, won't stand up -- doesn't mean i have to SHUT UP about what is obviously going to be a giant clusterfuck. nothing i say here is going to keep people from the polls. if i had the magical ability to bend people to "my will" i would encourage you send me lots and lots MONEY. seriously. send me some money. you are getting verrrrrrrrrrry sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy. and wanting to send brook lots and lots of MONEY. small bills please.


'Grave National Security Risk' of E-Voting as Democratic Party Keeps Head in Sand

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3687
Sadly, it's a REPUBLICAN Who Is Speaking Out About the Clear and Present Threat to Our Democracy
While the GOP Prepares to Yell 'Fraud' This Year if Necessary
"The equipment has been tested by independent agencies and federal agencies," Diebold's Chief Disinformation Officer, Mark Radke lied to Diane Sawyer in a recent Good Morning America interview on ABC. Sadly, the only ones there to counter Radke's knowing and misleading disinformation was a computer scientist from Princeton, and a Republican governor. Not a Democrat in sight.

The National Democratic Party, to their eternal shame, has remained virtually silent about the grave national security threat as it has been described by almost every computer scientist and security expert with whom the The BRAD BLOG has discussed the matter which our country now faces vis a vis the nationwide use of inaccurate, uncountable, unaccountable, hackable and, yes, untested electronic voting systems.

To be crystal clear, Radke was simply lying in his statement to Sawyer. He knows damned well that not a single independent body nobody, none, zerono computer scientist, security expert or federal, state or local election official or organization is allowed to test Diebold's voting systems in full and release their findings publicly. The same is true for the systems of every other voting machine company in America.

The only federal testing of these systems is done by the so-called "Independent Testing Authority" (ITA), a consortium of three private corporations chosen and paid for by the voting machine companies themselves. The ITAs test only what their client Voting Machine Companies tell them to test. They do so in secret and without releasing the results of their limited testing publicly.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm ok with free speech
it goes both ways.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. there is no way on earth that my words here will keep one person
from voting, jim.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. At this point
You may be right, but I still feel like there has been too much doubt propoganda on the whole issue and it has not had a net positive effect. The level of fear that votes are being stolen is directly connected to who loses. Expect the other party to champion the issue after they are thrown out of power.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Democrats Hold Double-Digit Lead in Competitive Districts
here's the Pew Research Center latest polling on the midterm elections. double-digit leads. GOP Troubles Extend into Home Territory. a MASACRE for Rethugs.

that's what's going to happen unless it doesn't happen -- and IF it doesn't happen, i don't want to see my fellow DU'ers skulking back to oblivion because we "didn't get out the vote." or we didn't campaign negatively enough. horseshit. if we lose the midterms we HAVE TO finally get serious about election reform. period. we don't have a plan as it stands. in 2004 Kerry purported to have a "recount" plan and i gave generously to the fund. in 2000 with only 550 votes left to go, this is what got in the way between us and a Gore presidency:


hell yeah i'm cynical. hell yeah i'm pissed. and hell no i'm not popping open the bubbly yet. it's going to be SMASHMOUTH because this is Rove's game. are we going to rise to the occasion? that's the question. it's not turnout. we have the numbers. it's not campaigning. we have the message. it's the FIGHT.

are we going to fight for this?


http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=2...

With less than two weeks to go before the midterm elections, the Democrats not only continue to maintain a double-digit advantage nationally, but also lead by the same margin in the competitive districts that will determine which party controls the House of Representatives. Nationally, the Democrats hold a 49%-38% lead among registered voters, and a nearly identical 50%-39% lead among those voters most likely to cast ballots on Nov. 7.

An oversample of voters in 40 competitive districts identified by a consensus of political analysts shows that voting intentions in the battleground districts are about the same as they are in the "safe" House districts. Among registered voters, the Democrats lead by 11 points in competitive districts (50%-39%) and by the same margin in safe districts (49%-38%).

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted among 1,552 registered voters - including 528 who reside in competitive districts - shows that Iraq continues to be the dominant issue for voters. More than four-in-ten voters (45%) view the situation in Iraq as the most important, or second most important issue in their vote, the highest percentage for six issues tested. In competitive districts, slightly more (50%) cite Iraq as a top issue in their vote.

Public views of Iraq continue to be overwhelmingly negative, with a solid majority of Americans (59%) saying the U.S. military effort there is not going well. Republicans, who have been steadfast backers of the war, are now rendering more negative judgments about how things are going in Iraq.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Every election poll is staffed by election judges of both Parties
They are monitored completely on every single thing they do. It is the machines that have no safe guards. Throw the machines in the bay and trust the people monitoring the elections. Those people are just decent folk who are your neighbors.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. We have one Dem and one Rep precinct Judge. I'm the Dem Judge.
The Clerk is of one party, the Sheriff is of the other. When the machines are turned in, both judges have to be in the same car. the chain of custody is carefully guarded. All precinct workers have to sign off on the tally.

Of course the chain of custody is broken inside the machines. We cannot verify if the data is correct.
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LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. HA!
I am a commissioner in charge for elections here. I have never seen a SINGLE poll watcher or observer for either party at any election here! Nine precincts vote at our polling place. To my knowledge, no one has even requested to be here.

We have zero problems so I guess everyone is satisfied but I think it's interesting.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. If I get a flipped vote half the state will know it immediately
I plan to raise such a fuss the cops will have to come to restore order and the media will show up. I will also refuse to cast my final vote and will keep the machine tied up until the problem is solved.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes! That's what I'm talking about!
:thumbsup:

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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Everybody should have your attitude. nt
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